What's the "orthodox" view of the law of Christ?

[from scratch]

Notice that "the law" requires that you have "agape" to come into harmony with it.

Paul states this in Romans 13:10 "Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love [agape] is the fulfillment of the law.http://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/13.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-13

No sir. Love isn't the keeping of the law. Love doesn't violate the law.

 

[from scratch]

And OTOH, at the other extreme, some see faith as a kind of magic wand where, having once believed, their eternal fate is sealed, the manner in which we live our lives ultimately having no role to play; the abuse can go both ways it seems.

I find its the continued belief that is the seal opposed to some one time forgotten event.

 

[from scratch]

Obligated sounds legalistic....The law of Christ is "the law of the Spirit" which gives the believer power to come into harmony with the last 6 commandments.

In harmony yes, in keeping no.

 

[fhansen]

Free will means obligated to nothing. A relationship with God is optional. That doesn't mean obligation to the past covenant that has been replaced just as God promised and Jesus (God the Son) testified to as reality.

Well, yes, obligation to nothing, even God, was the essence of Adam's sin. And sin will always be opposed to God, to His very nature. As creatures who must remain in relationship with their Creator we're still obligated in any case; 'Apart from Me you can do nothing'. We're obligated to do what is right and just, meaning we're obligated to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. "Thou shalt love", properly understood, could be a concise summation of the gospel. The message of the New Covenant is simply that we cannot do it on our own-but that if we don't do it, by means of that relationship with God, then sin and the death it earns continues on. In the end we no longer feel the obligation the more we come to agree with and embrace it for ourselves, the more we come to embrace Him, IOW.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Only for those requiring the keeping of the law. They don't understand following the leading of the Holy Spirit doesn't lead one to sin. They think following the leading of the Holy Spirit leads one to the law. This is in direct conflict with the Bible.

When I chat with seventh day keepers I always feel confused by their usage of 'law' because in one statement it means "do not eat pork" and in another it means "the ten commandments" and in still another it means "ceremonial law" and "civil law" yet in the scriptures it is all one word 'law' which encompasses all of the above and a lot more. Paul summed it up saying "all of you are not under law but under grace". Grace can't be earned or worked into existence.

 

[Setyoufree]

In harmony yes, in keeping no.

Ok

 

[Setyoufree]

No sir. Love isn't the keeping of the law. Love doesn't violate the law.

What Paul is saying is that it takes agape to keep the last 6 commandments....Without agape it's just self-righteousness.

 

[from scratch]

Well, yes, obligation to nothing, even God, was the essence of Adam's sin. And sin will always be opposed to God, to His very nature. As creatures who must remain in relationship with their Creator we're still obligated in any case; 'Apart from Me you can do nothing'. We're obligated to do what is right and just, meaning we're obligated to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. "Thou shalt love", properly understood, could be a concise summation of the gospel. The message of the New Covenant is simply that we cannot do it on our own-but that if we don't do it, by means of that relationship with God, then sin and the death it earns continues on. In the end we no longer feel the obligation the more we come to agree with and embrace it for ourselves, the more we come to embrace Him, IOW.

Surely you jest - God the essence of Adam's sin. Really? Do we ever have a problem.

 

[from scratch]

When I chat with seventh day keepers I always feel confused by their usage of 'law' because in one statement it means "do not eat pork" and in another it means "the ten commandments" and in still another it means "ceremonial law" and "civil law" yet in the scriptures it is all one word 'law' which encompasses all of the above and a lot more. Paul summed it up saying "all of you are not under law but under grace". Grace can't be earned or worked into existence.

Masters of confusion. They create confusion and then act like they clear it up. I guess many can't see through their thin veil of deception. So put on your smoke screen and mirror glasses and they disappear.

 

[fhansen]

Surely you jest - God the essence of Adam's sin. Really? Do we ever have a problem.

Not sure how you managed to get that out of it-even if it could've been better worded. I'll modify it slightly:
"Well, yes, obligation to nothing, even to God..."
IOW, Adam failed to acknowledge-and fulfill-his obligation to obey God. All creation continues to have that obligation. But as we come to know and love Him, we begin to obey willingly. To gain that knowledge and love is the reason we're here.

 

[from scratch]

What Paul is saying is that it takes agape to keep the last 6 commandments....Without agape it's just self-righteousness.

Paul isn't saying or telling anyone to keep the Ten Commandments with agape or without agape.

 

[fhansen]

Paul isn't saying or telling anyone to keep the Ten Commandments with agape or without agape.

Well, yes, he is; agape is the way-the right way-that the law is fulfilled:
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Rom 13:8-10

 

[Setyoufree]

Paul isn't saying or telling anyone to keep the Ten Commandments with agape or without agape.

Scratch, I said the last 6....I wish you would quote me correctly....

But, anyway....Without agape all your works are worthless because they are prompted by selfishness. Therefore works done without agape are polluted with sin and are no better than dung.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Scratch, I said the last 6....I wish you would quote me correctly....

But, anyway....Without agape all your works are worthless because they are prompted by selfishness. Therefore works done without agape are polluted with sin and are no better than dung.

There is only one who is good and that is God. But a man or woman may do good relatively speaking.

 

[fhansen]

There is only one who is good and that is God. But a man or woman may do good relatively speaking.

Yes, but all creation is good because He made it so. We just have to learn how to behave accordingly, according to the wisdom He created us to be ruled by-His law for man, according to His goodness or righteousness IOW which is only available to us to the extent we remain in communion with Him.

 

[Setyoufree]

Yes, but all creation is good because He made it so.

Yes, at creation mankind was perfect, just as Lucifer was perfect in all his ways, until iniquity was found in him. But after the fall you can not longer state that God's creation is good because it has been ruined by entrance of sin.

 

[Setyoufree]

Yes, at creation mankind was perfect, just as Lucifer was perfect in all his ways, until iniquity was found in him. But after the fall you can not longer state that God's creation is good because it has been ruined by entrance of sin.

This is Moses writing about the creation of mankind:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

Now Moses turns to after the fall:

3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

No longer was Adam in God's image. Hence he begot a son after his likeness and image.....

 

[Setyoufree]

There is only one who is good and that is God.

Jesus said that:

Matt 19:17 "No one is good but One, that is, God."

 

[Setyoufree]

As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].


Iniquity, therefore, is simply seeking our own way, a condition we are born with and which (without a Saviour) makes it impossible to do genuine righteousness, since the law of God requires even our motives to be pure [Matthew 5:20-22, 27-28]. In contrast to iniquity or self-seeking is agape (divine love) which is of God and which “seeketh not her own” [1 Corinthians 13:5].

 

[fhansen]

Yes, at creation mankind was perfect, just as Lucifer was perfect in all his ways, until iniquity was found in him. But after the fall you can not longer state that God's creation is good because it has been ruined by entrance of sin.

Ruined is too strong a word IMO; anything God creates is still good in its essence but, in the case of man, wounded, weakened, corrupted: lacking... in the grace and justice he originally possessed as a free gift.