All Israel Will Be Saved ?

[Guojing]

The Church is the New Israel. Those who follow Christ will be saved only.

That is great, which of the 12 tribes are we under?

 

[RileyG]

That is great, which of the 12 tribes are we under?

good question...i don't know. There is just one master, Christ. Isn't that we all need? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

 

[Guojing]

good question...i don't know. There is just one master, Christ. Isn't that we all need? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

Ever consider that, perhaps the Body of Christ is separate from Israel, that is why nowhere in scripture did it ever state that piece of information?

 

[RileyG]

Ever consider that, perhaps the Body of Christ is separate from Israel, that is why nowhere in scripture did it ever state that piece of information?

hmmm....what about the Book of Revelation? I think I would get censored if I said too much more.

 

[Guojing]

hmmm....what about the Book of Revelation? I think I would get censored if I said too much more.

Which verse tells us which tribe the Body of Christ belongs to?

 

[RileyG]

Which verse tells us which tribe the Body of Christ belongs to?

It doesn't. You know....you really got me thinking....

 

[atpollard]

That is great, which of the 12 tribes are we under?

It doesn't. You know....you really got me thinking....

Judah …we are IN CHRIST and He was a descendent of David (tribe of Judah).

 

[RileyG]

Yes. Christ is the new David.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It was my understanding that ALL believers now have access to God the Father through Jesus Christ.... not that the curtain was no longer sacred. Or am I missing something?

I said... "Jesus on the Cross Smashed the curse of the Law including direct access to the Father - The curtain was no longer sacred - He chose to provide indisputable visible proof of what He had done."

Maybe poorly worded - I never meant believers don't have access to the Father, but the Old Covenant access through the physical curtain was no more as Christ is our High Priest and access is for all believers through Jesus. The ripping of the curtain by God was done to make this truth undeniable. It also signified removing the authority of the Judaistic Priesthood. It was no longer a 'sacred' item with spiritual significance as it's function spiritually had ended. This was technically an act of desecration on God's Part because the Jews considered it sacred.

In this sense the spiritual role of Israel to represent God ended and the physical remains destroyed in AD70.

However in the future when all living Jews in Israel come to faith, the role of Israel bringing truth to the Nations may well be restored.

 

[Guojing]

Judah …we are IN CHRIST and He was a descendent of David (tribe of Judah).

So, based on Matthew 19:28

which of the 12 apostles will be our judge?

 

[Guojing]

It doesn't. You know....you really got me thinking....

Glad I did, as you pursue this, remember to consider that, perhaps the Body of Christ is separate from Israel, that is why nowhere in scripture did it ever state that piece of information.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is great, which of the 12 tribes are we under?

The bigger question is are you one of the celibate 12,000 men comprising the 144,000 of Israel who will be saved?

 

[Guojing]

The bigger question is are you one of the celibate 12,000 men comprising the 144,000 of Israel who will be saved?

No I am not. Those are all Jews

 

[atpollard]

So, based on Matthew 19:28

which of the 12 apostles will be our judge?

John 3:18 [NASB] "The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

 

[Clare73]

It was my understanding that ALL believers now have access to God the Father through Jesus Christ.... not that the curtain was no longer sacred. Or am I missing something?

It's not about the sacredness of the curtain.
Where is that coming from?

The Ark was sacred, not the curtain.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's not about the sacredness of the curtain.
Where is that coming from?

The Ark was sacred, not the curtain.

Nevertheless, the Ark was also desecrated. One might say that the wooden box with the gold plating, as a material object, was never sacred in and of itself even as the Bible, which is merely a bound set of printed pieces of paper, is not in and of itself sacred. It is what they contain that makes them sacred.

Muslims make a huge deal about taking the name of Mohammed in vain. For them, the name is equivalent to that of God (Allah). Nevertheless this name is enormously popular to give to baby boys. There seems to be some sort of concept that the spirit, or at least the spiritual characteristics, of that name will mystically be conferred to those who are given that name. Pity all the girls who, simply because of their gender, are excluded from any significant participation in this sort of spiritual aspiration.

 

[Clare73]

Nevertheless, the Ark was also desecrated. One might say

One might say anything.

It's what the Bible says that is true.
God dwelt with them in the Ark (Ex 29:45), which dwelling place was changed to those who savingly believe in Christ.

 

[atpollard]

Nevertheless, the Ark was also desecrated. One might say that the wooden box with the gold plating, as a material object, was never sacred in and of itself even as the Bible, which is merely a bound set of printed pieces of paper, is not in and of itself sacred. It is what they contain that makes them sacred.

I do not believe this is correct.

• When the Ark was captured by the Philistines ... God clearly protected it and even HUMBLED their wooden idols with it.
• When the Jews went to Babylon, there is no record of the Ark being among the treasure captured (some speculate that it was hidden).
• After the return from Babylon, there is no mention of the Ark in any future Text (leading to speculation that the "Presence" and the "Ark" never returned to the Temple. - Only the High Priest would know for certain since the Holy of Holies was entered only once per year.)

So the tearing of the curtain was part of a progressive revelation:

• The High Priest knew that God had abandoned the temple when they entered the Holy of Holies
• All Jews knew that God had abandonded the Temple when the curtain was torn and any Levite could see (and everyone heard) that the Holy of Holies was empty.
• The WORLD knew that God had abandonded the Temple when the Romans leveled the building and left no stone standing on another stone.

... But the ARK had been removed long ago, back before the Babylonian exile, when God placed it in hiding for safe keeping. It still contained God's Promises, and God's word is true even if all men are liars.

 

[bbbbbbb]

One might say anything.

It's what the Bible says that is true.
God dwelt with them in the Ark (Ex 29:45), which dwelling place was changed to those who savingly believe in Christ.

You admit to a change. In the process of the change the ark was descrated. The sacred nature of the ark was destroyed along with the physical ark. The ark was never an object of worship. Believers in Jesus Christ as well as believers in the Old Testament period are never compared with the ark. Instead, believers in Jesus Christ are temples of the Holy Spirit. The temple in Jerusalem is gone. It lost its sacred character as symbolized by the rending of the curtain.

 

[Clare73]

You admit to a change. In the process of the change the ark was descrated. The sacred nature of the ark was destroyed along with the physical ark. The ark was never an object of worship.

Strawman.