What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

reddogs said:

Well, at Creation He made the Sabbath for man, and made it Holy and Blessed it and that has not change, only the 'tradition' of man has come in.

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Genesis is the Jewish tradition, Sabbath included.

trophy33 said:

Genesis is the Jewish tradition, Sabbath included.

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So you are not a Christian?

HIM said:

So you are not a Christian?

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Logical fallacy.

trophy33 said:

Logical fallacy.

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Christians are people of faith. So?

reddogs said:

Well, at Creation He made the Sabbath for man, and made it Holy and Blessed it and that has not change, only the 'tradition' of man has come in.

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trophy33 said:

Genesis is the Jewish tradition, Sabbath included.

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"ALL scripture" is given by inspiration from God AND to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16. THat is primarily a statement about the Old Testament

(all but 1) reference "To scripture" in the NT - is a reference to the OT text.

Luke 24 says Christ explained the Gospel to NT saints after the resurrection "in all of scripture" where He "begins with Moses and all the prophets" of the OT.

Your argument seems to be that we need to avoid scripture if we want to ignore what God says about the Sabbath.

If that is your argument - then there is a certain degree of consistency to that logic - but hard for Christians to follow it when stated to clearly in that case, since it appear to go against the NT imperatives on believing and following the Word of God.

GodBeMercifulToMeASinner said:

But there is a big difference between God’s truth, and Ellen White’s truth.

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Positions affirming the Bible statements on the Sabbath on this thread of quoting the Bible not Ellen White.

OR is it your claim that Ellen White wrote the Bible so than any affirmation of Bible statements about the Sabbath is belief in Ellen White???

GodBeMercifulToMeASinner said:

The real truth is that most people are self-absorbed and full of pride

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True but that fact does not delete/downsize the Word of God

GodBeMercifulToMeASinner said:

That is right though, 100% as you say. God’s truth doesn’t change. He doesn’t care about anyone’s vain ritualistic religion..it is the heart that matters.

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Indeed the "new heart" of Ezek 36 which is the New Birth scenario of the New Covenant we find in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12 quoting Jeremiah 31 verbatim ... unchanged in the NT

GodBeMercifulToMeASinner said:

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
—2 Corinthians 7:10

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repenting from sin - means one has to accept the Bible defintion of sin "SIN is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Which includes that Law where "honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2.

I guess we all knew that.

GodBeMercifulToMeASinner said:

Or if you prefer to OT

“The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.”
—Psalm 34:18

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The Word of God - OT or NT is just fine.

Bob S said:

The problem is that Sabbath observers are unable to deny the post. The poster didn't even touch on Is 58:13. Are you able to keep your mind on Holy things for 24 hours a week?

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Are you able to not take God's name in vain?

If not - would that make that commandment "void"???

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

BobRyan said:

"ALL scripture" is given by inspiration from God AND to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16. THat is primarily a statement about the Old Testament

(all but 1) reference "To scripture" in the NT - is a reference to the OT text.

Luke 24 says Christ explained the Gospel to NT saints after the resurrection "in all of scripture" where He "begins with Moses and all the prophets" of the OT.

Your argument seems to be that we need to avoid scripture if we want to ignore what God says about the Sabbath.

If that is your argument - then there is a certain degree of consistency to that logic - but hard for Christians to follow it when stated to clearly in that case, since it appear to go against the NT imperatives on believing and following the Word of God.

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Indeed, Even the Jesus "of the bible" taught that man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of His God and my God, who, to the best of my knowledge is not a man, let alone a Jewish man. Hard to do if one rejects the Law and Prophets.

And Paul even says that the Gospel of Christ that was given to us, as well as unto Israel, is found in the Law and Prophets wherein the righteousness and the wrath of God against all unrighteousness, is revealed. As HE says;

Rom. 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein (Within the Gospel of Christ) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith (Of Abraham) to faith (of Malachi) : as it is written, (Within the Gospel of Christ) The just shall live by faith. Hab. 2:4

Truly the Law and Prophets were a thorn in the sides of the Mainstream religions of Jesus and Paul's Time, and they seem to be the same thorn in the sides of modern religions as well.

Great points BR.

Bob S said:

The problem is that Sabbath observers are unable to deny the post. The poster didn't even touch on Is 58:13. Are you able to keep your mind on Holy things for 24 hours a week?

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Certainly not if Greed motivates the Flesh to work to make more money on the Sabbath Days, a man driven by greed would not be able to, or even be interested in "God's definition of Holy". Certainly not if a man considers the Commandments of God which run contrary to his fleshy desires as unworthy of their honor and respect, such a man would consider obedience to God foolishness, as you promote about His Sabbath commandment. Certainly, if the Flesh of a man rules the mind, it would be impossible to keep one's mind on God's definition of Holy, even for one day.

But if a man would turn from his sins, in Love and Respect for the God and Father of the Lord's Christ and follow the Jesus "of the Bible's" instruction, this man would "Deny Himself" of his personal fleshy desires, like golf or whatever, on this ONE day a week that God Esteems above the other six days of the week. And call HIS Sabbath Fast from the World that God created for them, a Blessing and a delight, which it is for the faithful. And Seek from the heart, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, that HE Created beforehand for HIS People to walk in, as opposed to transgressing God's Commandments so as to walk in the popular manmade religious traditions of this world we were born into. This man
shall delight himself in the LORD; and God will cause him to ride upon the high places of the earth and feed him with the heritage of Jacob his father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Of course, as Prophesied, there are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that don't believe in this God, or His instruction.

Just because "the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word in your life or others, doesn't make the Word of God void, or a falsehood. At least this is my understanding.

Bob S said:

Gary, do you do realize that the Sabbath, when given at Sinai, was the starting point of the rest day and then as the sun set around the World Sabbath day would start as the sun set. Well, do you also realize that the starting time of the Sabbath changed when the International Date Line was established.

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That is your religion BS. I would ask you, in your religion, does God know the end from the beginning? Or was your god not able to see the IDL coming, and therefore didn't know enough to Prophesy of this event that would change His Law?

Bob S said:

The starting time of the days of the week start at the IDL and of course that includes Saturday. So, the question is since it isn't starting where God gave it are you really heeding the old covenant requirement of trying to keep it on the correct day? Will that fact just go over your head like all the posts that prove Sabbath is not a requirement for anyone anymore.

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The Sabbath was never a requirement for the unfaithful. The Pharisees polluted it, Catholic and Protestants rejected it and created their own.

The Covenant you speak to doesn't even mention God's Sabbath, and only speak of a change in 2 things.

#1. The manner in which God's Law is received.

#2. The manner in which forgiveness of Sins are provided for. You can read it for yourself in Jer. 31.

Only those who "believe" God are able to walk in His Ways or would even want to.

HIM said:

Christians are people of faith. So?

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So nothing. You have no authority to define what the faith is and so it does not need to be the same as yours.

Most of these sabbatarian threads are full of people closed in their own small traditional (or even cultic) bubbles, thinking that their view is the only possible version of Christianity, repeating still the same pre-saved verses and arguments, ignoring the outside historical context.

Not interesting. So I will leave you to it.

trophy33 said:

So nothing. You have no authority to define what the faith is and so it does not need to be the same as yours.

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No you are right. Neither you nor I define faith. God does and did through the Bible. And since you do not believe it or Him how do you define it? What ever you feel and think?

trophy33 said:

Most of these sabbatarian threads are full of people closed in their own small traditional (or even cultic) bubbles, thinking that their view is the only possible version of Christianity, repeating still the same pre-saved verses and arguments, ignoring the outside historical context.

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And here you are not quoting verses and claiming the Bible isn't true in places. What does that make you?

trophy33 said:

Not interesting. So I will leave you to it.

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See my signature on your way out..

Studyman said:

Certainly not if Greed motivates the Flesh to work to make more money on the Sabbath Days, a man driven by greed would not be able to, or even be interested in "God's definition of Holy". Certainly not if a man considers the Commandments of God which run contrary to his fleshy desires as unworthy of their honor and respect, such a man would consider obedience to God foolishness, as you promote about His Sabbath commandment. Certainly, if the Flesh of a man rules the mind, it would be impossible to keep one's mind on God's definition of Holy, even for one day.

But if a man would turn from his sins, in Love and Respect for the God and Father of the Lord's Christ and follow the Jesus "of the Bible's" instruction, this man would "Deny Himself" of his personal fleshy desires, like golf or whatever, on this ONE day a week that God Esteems above the other six days of the week. And call HIS Sabbath Fast from the World that God created for them, a Blessing and a delight, which it is for the faithful. And Seek from the heart, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, that HE Created beforehand for HIS People to walk in, as opposed to transgressing God's Commandments so as to walk in the popular manmade religious traditions of this world we were born into. This man
shall delight himself in the LORD; and God will cause him to ride upon the high places of the earth and feed him with the heritage of Jacob his father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Of course, as Prophesied, there are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that don't believe in this God, or His instruction.

Just because "the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word in your life or others, doesn't make the Word of God void, or a falsehood. At least this is my understanding.



That is your religion BS. I would ask you, in your religion, does God know the end from the beginning? Or was your god not able to see the IDL coming, and therefore didn't know enough to Prophesy of this event that would change His Law?


The Sabbath was never a requirement for the unfaithful. The Pharisees polluted it, Catholic and Protestants rejected it and created their own.

The Covenant you speak to doesn't even mention God's Sabbath, and only speak of a change in 2 things.

#1. The manner in which God's Law is received.

#2. The manner in which forgiveness of Sins are provided for. You can read it for yourself in Jer. 31.

Only those who "believe" God are able to walk in His Ways or would even want to.

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So Studyman, I glean from your post that you have " turned from your sins" and are able to observe a day perfectly as described in Is 58:13? You are able to block out all worldly conversation with your peers and keep from doing your own pleasure, whatever that means?

If you are telling us you are able to refrain from what would be sin, according to Is 58, I believe you are not being true to us or yourself. Refraining from going golfing that might be your pleasure on one day a week is not proof that you are keeping the day holy.

What I glean from your post is because I have never succeeded in "keeping" the day holy means I don't have a true relationship with my Savior Jesus Christ according to the reasoning you have dug up? If I cannot keep a day as you prescribe I might as well not worship God and am only pretending to have a relationship with Jesus who has taught me that I truly am a sinner saved only by Jesus Grace? Is that what your post is telling me?

Now concerning even if you are not observing the correct day because man moved the starting time of the Israelite Sabbath it is okay because God know the "end from the beginning"? My what convoluted reasoning. If keeping a day is so vital to true worship of God it should behoove all who believe the importance of the dateline change to just make the correction and keep God out of the equation.

Well for me. I will stick with John's simple truth found in 1Jn 3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If at times I fail because I am yet a sinner, I am promised by Jesus that He is my advocate and l claim the following promise:
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1.

Bob S said:

So Studyman, I glean from your post that you have " turned from your sins" and are able to observe a day perfectly as described in Is 58:13?

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The point is, no man who doesn't believe God concerning HIS Judgments, Statutes or Commandments can turn from their sins. This is simply undeniable Truth. Oh, they may still profess to know God, as the Pharisees did. But by their "works" they will deny Him.

It's not about my belief, or your unbelief BS, in my view. It's about applying what is actually written to the inward man. If the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in, has convinced you that the Word of God is not worthy of your honor, belief, respect or obedience, then the instruction HE created for you with not provide the benefit it was created for, which I believe is to know God. This is what IS 58 is speaking to. How can I know the Lord? You have tried this world's religions. SDA for awhile, now another one. There are "many" to choose from. What I advocate for is listening to the Christ "of the Bible" and not the other voices in the garden. He said man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from "the mouth of God", not Calvin, Wesley, Arminius or White or the smorgasbord of other voices of this world God placed us in.

Bob S said:

You are able to block out all worldly conversation with your peers and keep from doing your own pleasure, whatever that means?

If you are telling us you are able to refrain from what would be sin, according to Is 58, I believe you are not being true to us or yourself.

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Again, because you don't believe God, and are really not interested in knowing Him, you don't know what IS. 58 is saying. You only use it to promote your religion, which promotes the philosophy that God doesn't know what HE is talking about.

1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, "and thou seest not"? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, "and thou takest no knowledge"? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.

Do you even know, let along care, what God's Sabbath Fast is even created for, much less "believe" God regarding it?

If you say you do, then you are just lying to yourself, because according to your works, clearly you don't.

Bob S said:

Refraining from going golfing that might be your pleasure on one day a week is not proof that you are keeping the day holy.

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This is true, but golfing or working for money on God's Holy Sabbath Day is certainly proof that you have no respect for the God who created the Holy Day. This is undeniable Biblical Truth.

Bob S said:

What I glean from your post is because I have never succeeded in "keeping" the day holy means I don't have a true relationship with my Savior Jesus Christ according to the reasoning you have dug up?

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My reply is based on your preaching.

Bob S said:

If I cannot keep a day as you prescribe I might as well not worship God and am only pretending to have a relationship with Jesus who has taught me that I truly am a sinner saved only by Jesus Grace? Is that what your post is telling me?

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I am more interested in what God and Jesus actually say, than what the religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting. If you don't believe God, what does it matter what day you work on?

Bob S said:

Now concerning even if you are not observing the correct day because man moved the starting time of the Israelite Sabbath it is okay because God know the "end from the beginning"? My what convoluted reasoning.

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My point is that God warned about religious men who profess to know God but are really deceivers. He prophesied about the Change in the Priesthood. He prophesied about the arrival and subsequent murder of His Son. But never once prophesied about how it would become impossible to obey His Sabbath Commandment that HE created for men, because of the IDL, created by men. Man's time changes, the moon and stars remain the same today as they did in Abraham's time. We are on the same planet, with the same moon that existed in Christ's Time. The first Church of god under god's New Priesthood, was able to be gathered on the Sabbath of Pentecost. Men find all kinds of excuses not to believe God. Why not just believe Him?

Convoluted reasoning you preach? Perhaps. But I'm not sure of the wisdom in rejecting God and His Commandments, simply because You preach to the world it is impossible to keep them.

Bob S said:

If keeping a day is so vital to true worship of God it should behoove all who believe the importance of the dateline change to just make the correction and keep God out of the equation.

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It's part of God's instruction in righteousness that the Jews Polluted. They too, just like you, have created their own religion, founded on the doctrines, traditions and commandments of men. You are free to follow in their footsteps if you like. Certainly, many of this world's religions do. But it seems wise to consider, what if the Jesus of the bible is right, and God actually knows what HE is doing. I know you call this convoluted reasoning, and perhaps it is. Nevertheless, the Jesus "of the bible" did say to keep the Commandments if I want to enter life, and the Sabbath Commandment is one of God's Commandments that Jesus specifically said was made for man. I simply believe that God didn't create a commandment specifically for men, that is impossible to keep according to His Instruction.

It seems prudent to share this perspective with others.

Bob S said:

Well for me. I will stick with John's simple truth found in 1Jn 3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If at times I fail because I am yet a sinner, I am promised by Jesus that He is my advocate and l claim the following promise:
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1.

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No doubt those "Christians" in Matthew 7 also promoted the same belief, a belief that implies that outright rejection of God's Judgments and Statutes and Commandments, are covered by the Blood of the Christ. However, when a person actually reads what is written in the Holy scriptures, this is exposed as just another false teaching, from the "Many" who come in Christ's Name that Jesus said to take Heed of. It is with God's Love that I share what is actually written.

Heb. 10: 26 For if we sin (Transgress God's Commandments) wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

trophy33 said:

Not sure why you left out the new moon.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And fromone Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Do you worship on New Moons? Or what do you try to say?

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I’m sure we all know why the new moon feast wasn’t highlighted in that passage. It’s because of Colossians 2:16.

How is it one keeps the day holy? Worshipping in song, prayer, praise and doing our LORD'S bidding help in keeping the day holy. This we should do. And in doing we chance not defiling it by the unholiness of a self serving nature..
Though we are to keep everyday Holy and our lives through Christ are to Exemplify worship and holiness. The Sabbath we are called specifically to rest from our OWN work not the Lords on the Seventh Day. For in the Lord's work is rest and holiness.

Resting and keeping the day holy are two different things. Though resting on the Sabbath would be part of keeping the day holy. Because it is a command of God; but it is not all inclusive.

How does one keep a day Holy and not defile it? First off by keeping themselves and their house from sin. And Worshipping, praising and doing things of God help.

BNR32FAN said:

I’m sure we all know why the new moon feast wasn’t highlighted in that passage. It’s because of Colossians 2:16.

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I am sure we all know why most translations including the LXX translate that verse with the word month. It is because it is to be understood that way.

Isa 66:23 (NET) From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the LORD.

HIM said:

I am sure we all know why most translations including the LXX translate that verse with the word month. It is because it is to be understood that way.

Isa 66:23 (NET) From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the LORD.

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Yeah I tried that example last September but your SDA chums rejected that explanation as well.

BNR32FAN said:

So new moon to new moon means from month to month so what does from sabbath to sabbath mean? It means from Saturday to Saturday, in other words it means everyday, 7 days a week.it does not mean that people will be worshiping on the Sabbath it means people will be worshipping everyday.

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reddogs said:

"What will happen to all those Christians who don't worship on the Sabbath?"

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Nothing.

But if they reject JESUS, then they have a eternal problem.


John 3:36