Once again, Bob edits things to confuse. In this case, he adds words to what Ellen White said.

I quoted Ellen White's statements, then pointed out the three types of sins Ellen White says satan must bear. In doing so, I quote from the words of the text.



Bob cuts off my statement, and posts his own copy of three types...but he adds words to the second type.

BobRyan said:

1. his own sins
2. sins of the redeemed host, which had been placed upon him which HE cause them to commit
3. also suffer for the ruin of souls which he had caused

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The second type of sin Ellen White said satan must bear is:


But Bob adds to the sentence the portion highlighted in red, that is not in Ellen White's quote.


Why did Bob have to add to the quote? Because Ellen White clearly says that satan will have to bear the sins of the redeemed host.

And it is NOT the sins he caused them to commit, because that is included in the third point, "the ruin of souls which he had caused."

She claims he has the sin of the redeemed host placed on him. So she does have him bearing the sins of the righteous, which Bob tries to deny. But he has to change the statement to even attempt to deflect from what she says.

As already noted, satan is not responsible for every sin, per James:

People commit sin because of they are enticed by their own desires. And Ellen White claims that satan has placed on him the sins of the redeemed host, and this is a separate category from "the ruin of souls which he had caused."

JulieB67 said:

This is not something the "true" church would do. Again, the true church is the many membered body that holds to the teachings brought forth by Christ and his apostles/disciples period. And what you posted is a far cry from that.

In the early days, the Lord would add to the church "daily" as would be saved and on the first day around 3 thousand were added. This stuff about a period of discernment should make anyone who is in the Word of God daily to sit up and take notice that something is wrong. The Lord adds to the church, not man. He's the heart knower and the one that discerns.

Again your traditions of men are voiding out the word of God.

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Please study the Bible so that you may avoid such false accusations in the future:

The New Life in Christ​

Rom 12: 1-2 I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world[a] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.[b] RSVCE

God gave us a mind so that we can come to understand what is good and what is not.

JulieB67 said:

And you believe they brought William Shatner, in his nineties through training and up to space to keep up with this scam? He along with others that have paid to do so are also in on it? I don't believe so. And what you're also basically stating as well is that the entire world is in on this.

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See related...



You're also asking us to believe that every young kid throughout time dreaming of being an astronaut one day and eventually achieving that dream are then told surprise!
That was Rob Skiba's childhood dream. He had an Apollo landing on the moon picture in his room. Much later in life he rejected his previous views and became the greatest advocate of a Biblical Earth.

The Flat Earth Controversy From A Biblical Worldview​

A Biblical World View And One Man's Quest For Truth

Apple Sky said:

William was taken up as far as the stratosphere, this is as far as anyone can go.

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Yes, and all he saw was death...

Hammster said:

Are these just random, or do they pertain to the OP in some way?

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I thought I would add them for consideration for the discussion. It's not aimed at anyone in particular. I think we get sidetracked with the wrong speech and judgment sometimes. For example, and this isnt aimed at you, people slander politicians but according to Romans 13 and Titus 3 this slander is wrong. In that example we got involved in the wrong speech.

I thought this was about that fabulous chorus from Haydn' 'Die Schöpfung/The Creation' (1798)
Even so, yes, the sky has been quite interesting of late.
Marvelous thunderstorms yesterday.
The aurora borealis was present here in the north of England, though don't let the photographs deceive you. They were hardly visible by the naked eye aside from presenting as a feint green fog. It has been quite interesting looking through what my cameras picked up once I got home.

Hammster said:

Sorry. I misspoke in my haste. Is it your assertion that in Calvinism, the only way God can control man is as a puppet master?

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I don't assert God as puppet master - only Calvin asserts that God governs mans will and movements. It seems that you did not fully examine my Post 7 where I show that God did not control Paul, Jonah, or Balaam as puppet master and thus some (i.e. Jonah and Balaam) rebelled.

This may help: God's promises concerning prayer and preaching are true - he will move circumstances to achieve His promises. Going back to early beginnings we see how God dealt with Abimelech (Genesis 20:1-18) in order to achieve His promises to a weak-willed Abraham. I don't want to bash on Abraham as all or most of us could not do better - and yet we see God's power! Scripture says that Abraham was a friend of God - so follow his example and take hope!

Remember that it is Calvin's statements (reference my Post 5), not scripture, that presents God as puppet master. Does that offend anyone? Do I need to preemptively apologize? Help me @Hammster, as I am surprised my posts on this thread have not been closed down. Can I only take comfort in Jesus's words to only the world hating me (John 18:15-25)? Do I need to also worry about the attacks from modern day Pharisee wolves parading themselves as believers?

Violent tantrums are a depressingly common reaction to rumors of church construction, and even to rumors of the use of a building or room as a church 'unofficially' when Copts are disallowed building permits. So either way the Copts are treated with this kind of response. They quite literally cannot win other than by simply renouncing Christianity, which is of course the point. Yet most don't do that, and instead these kinds of attacks tend to strengthen their resolve. Go figure. Maybe someday the extremist Muslims will realize this, but I wouldn't hold my breath. They've had since the 640s AD.

O Lord, light up my spirit and let me see
Let me feel the warmth of your beauty and tender mercy

I will hope in you, my great Lord and King
Nothing can separate us. My heart will sing.

Hope in the Lord and in his redemption
O my soul, find rest in your affliction

Estrid said:

Horse don't got a head.

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He will on the New Earth though.

So, as the OP says, imagine what it'll be like there!

Neostarwcc said:

In Ephesians 2:1-5 Paul describes the state of a believer pre regeneration (Dead in trespasses and sins) and after regeneration (Made alive by God). This is one of the strongest arguments for Total Depravity in the Bible so I wanted to discuss whether or not Total Depravity was true or not based on these 5 verses.

Please try to keep this thread on topic. Mainly addressing Total Depravity from Ephesians 2:1-5. I realize there are many other supporting verses and you may bring up verses that may seem to contradict Paul's point in Ephesians 2:1-5 but I want to keep this thread as on topic as possible. I mostly want people to address the OP. Mainly, of Total Depravity isn't true and people are free to choose Christ on their own why does Paul call the state in which a pre converted person exists, completely dead in trespasses and sins and that we need to be made alive?

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Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

Peter got it right after all! All is now specified to the Wicked as it is obvious that Peter was "Drawing" from Ezekiel 33:11

Ezekiel has God swearing by His Name by saying "As I Live", then echoing 2 Peter 3:9 to the Wicked... and imploring them to Use God Blessed Self Sovereign Autonomy to turn back to Him.

Scripture is Scriptures best Commentary.

Incase it is disputed... Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” This is the declaration of the Lord God. “Instead, don’t I take pleasure when he turns from his ways and lives?

Still in doubt? 2 Samual 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

I've often wanted to attend a Byzantine Divine Liturgy. I just haven't made it there. What I am expecting is something much closer to the TLM

War and rumors of wars.

Tropical Wilds said:

Your loss. Ignoring is easier than learning and accountability for sure.

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Learning from you? No thanks.

Yarddog said:

He rebuked three but not Elihu.

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Scholars believe that Job war originally composed with Job and his three friends. Elihu was added later. That is probably why Elihu escaped being rebuked along with the original three.

(story is from October)

Define confessional, conservative, and synod separately. That's not a joke or a snide remark. It's the key to the answer and discrepancies in how those words are used account for most of the variation between lists.

There are a couple of groups that choose to call themselves a diocese rather than a synod; is that functionally the same? Then there's the AFLC which generally checks 2 boxes but is not really a synod and is not particularly traditional. I don't know anyone on the outside who counts the small handful of Laestadian groups but they check at least a couple of the boxes. Etc.

Question about the Lev 16 Scapegoat - addressed in 1957 in the book "Questions on Doctrine" -- Question 35

"We take our stand without qualification on the gospel platform that the death of Jesus Christ provides the sole propitiation for our sins (1 John 2:2; 4:10); that there is salvation through no other means or medium, and no other name by which we may be saved (Acts 4:12); and that the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone brings remission for our sins (Matt. 26: 28). That is foundational.

Further, we hold to the recognized principle that no cardinal doctrine or belief should be based primarily upon a parable or type, but upon the clear unfigurative statements of Scripture, and understood and defined in the light of explicit declarations of gospel realities. ...

In Leviticus 16, two goats entered into the service of the great day of Atonement. One, in type, made atonement for sin. The other goat, for Azazel, was not slain, but was kept alive, and hence made no atonement for anyone's sins.

The first goat represented our Lord Jesus Christ, who, on the cross, made atonement for our sins. The other goat, in antithesis, symbolized Satan, who must bear the responsibility not only for his own sins but for his part in all the sins he has caused others, both righteous and wicked, to commit. This live goat, it is to be remembered, was not slain. (Many outstanding authorities support our understanding that the live goat, or Azazel, typified Satan. See Question 34.)

Interesting. I lived with my grandparents in Eastern Kentucky many years ago and there were many 7th day Baptist churches but none appear in this conference. I know they were not altogether independent because I met and spoke to them a couple of times and was told that the churches operated in a circuit. Many only had a service once a month when the preacher came through. If you wanted to go to church other times (which was kind of expected) you had to follow the preacher's circuit.

Laodicean60 said:

If we are going to worry about what our ancestors did 160 years ago why not go back another 100 years to what we did to the Indians? Let's talk about Indians let's give them blankets with smallpox, let's talk about genocide. I think most in the world realize that their ancestors were barbaric.

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We are talking about specific individuals whose records are known (Jackson & Lee). Similar arguments have been made about specific individuals regarding native peoples, including "Lord Jeff" Amherst. It might be hard to get the town and the college to rename themselves, but at least Amherst college could stop using the "Lord Jeff" mascot. (See it's not as if I am giving a free pass to other jerks, they just aren't the topic.)

PloverWing said:

From the article:



This was one of the difficulties that came to my mind. Unless there's some extraordinary event that's just happened, each week's homily is going to be based on the assigned lectionary readings. If the priest wants to connect the week's readings to domestic violence, it's going to take some work to make that connection. But I agree that domestic violence is a problem, and that perhaps silence from the church communicates something. I'd be interested to see some examples of how preachers build bridges from the lectionary texts to the topic of violence without the transition being awkward and artificial.

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With liturgical Church it could be a problem. With most Protestant churches, it’s not. It is up to the pastor to decide what to preach each week.

Rudy Guiliani’s radio show has been canceled after he repeatedly discussed false 2020 election conspiracy theories after he was told not to​

In recent months, Giuliani was repeatedly directed to not make claims of electronic voting manipulation surrounding the 2020 election, John Catsimatidis, the billionaire GOP donor and owner of the radio station, said in a statement.

Catsimatidis said the station received a letter in January 2021 from election technology company Dominion Voting Systems, which has been the target of baseless vote rigging claims by right-wing media figures, including Giuliani. WABC instructed its on-air hosts, including Giuliani, to avoid the subject, Catsimatidis said.

But on Wednesday, a Bloomberg News article highlighted Giuliani had doubled down on potentially defamatory comments about two Georgia poll workers who had previously won a $148 million judgment against Giuliani, Catsimatidis said. Giuliani was sent a letter the same day, reminding him to avoid the subject on-air, Catsimatidis said, though this, too, was ignored, with Giuliani again broaching the subject on his show that same day. Later that night, Giuliani allegedly texted Catsimatidis saying, “I am disregarding every order given in this letter.”

Giuliani was ultimately suspended from the station on Friday for violating the agreement and refusing to adhere to company policy, Catsimatidis said. “I won’t jeopardize WABC over stupid things like that,” he said.