CoreyD said:

Let me warn you, that you are going to engage in a fruitless argument that will only wear you out.
It is already clear from scripture that freedom is relative; cleanness is relative; holiness is relative; righteousness is relative.
Engaging in a debate with someone who insists on using the word "complete" to make something real, is no different to engaging in an argument with someone who insists that knowledge must be absolute, for one to have true knowledge... which is an unreasonable argument.

The argument that freedom must be "complete" for it be real freedom, is no different... either scripturally, or otherwise.
God's people have true freedom. Galatians 5:1
As you know, humans have free will too.
Don't get carried away by the "complete" argument.
No fruit will come from it.

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If there is no free will then why doesn't GOD just convert everyone instead of allowing them to be trapped in evil ? Remember, that forbidden fruit was the knowledge of GOOD as well as evil. People are capable of doing good on a human level. James describes the human sinful condition. James 1: 13-15 it is our own lust that is sin, GOD doesn't tempt any to sin, its all on us.

fhansen said:

Ok, no one is able to live sinlessly. "And yet, can anyone sinning wantonly, willfully, gravely, enter heaven? Must we overcome sin as per Rom 8:12-14 or Heb 12:14?"

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The issue is rebirth.

The born again do not sin "wantonly, willfully, gravely". . .for the Holy Spirit does not dwell in such, which is why such cannot enter heaven.

Fervent said:

Because your estimates underappreciate the danger, and those work-a-day Muslims don't really make a difference in the threat assessment.

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The danger of Islamic extremism exists in the West, but it isn't as severe as you perceive it to be. The "work-a-day Muslims" you claim don't make a difference are the ones who are working in their communities to counter violent extremism and are giving tips to authorities that prevent terror plots from being carried out on US soil.

Fervent said:

Already addressed, it's not just about disliking Islam but seeing it as one of, if not the, greatest looming threats to Western societies as fundamentalists use the misplaced tolerance against such societies. To take another example, even though 99% of NAZIs weren't running concentration camps that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to widespread NAZI ideology.

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This analogy would only work if 99% of Germans in the 1930s had been denouncing Hitler and the SS. That didn't happen, and the exact opposite is the case when it comes to Muslims. Today every mainstream Muslim scholarly body in the world condemns terrorism, suicide bombing, and extremist violence as being forbidden and an act of apostasy, and the vast majority of Muslims agree. They are consistently condemning Islamic extremists, and Muslim soldiers are the ones doing most of the fighting and dying against Islamic terrorists. The Muslims you dismiss as irrelevant aren’t silent enablers like the vast majority of Germans were under the Nazis and they are the reason the extremists account for less than 0.1% of the Muslim population.

partinobodycular said:

Ah, the mind is so good at seeing what it wants to see. But consider this, absolutely nothing... and I do mean nothing will grow in that field except corn. So for the next seven months this is what I'll see... miles, and miles, and miles of lifeless windswept dirt.

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Living up in Edmonton, I do get teh blessing of our ground covered by a beautiful white blanket.

That said, our springs are...just.....awwwwful. Brown.Dead.Dry. Gravel everywhere (from snow and driving and everything). UNTIL we get one or two good rains...things green up fast and it's lovel.y.

I even wrote a song about that.

Click on "Springtime in My Hometown"

CLEEB said:

Scripture proves a choice between two trees in Eden.

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The term choice you're using in this statement implies option. Scripture does not express that they are options implying an either/or.

CLEEB said:

A choice under the law to choose life and live.

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This is a strawman argument. No one I know of on this thread is denying that we make choices between right and wrong life and death in the moral/immoral context. The issue is culpability when factoring in that scripture indicates the carnal will (or “mind of the flesh”) is not the true self God intends us to live from. Paul consistently distinguishes between the flesh (carnal nature) and the spirit (new nature in Christ), showing that the carnal will is a corrupted orientation of desire, not the essence of who we are in Christ.

Clare73 said:

Your objection to my clarification is "interesting". . .

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And now you are confusing "dismissal and ignoring" with "objection".

Sigh.

BPPLEE said:

Which is more believable
A. Life came from non life by random chance
B. God created life

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If you already believe in God chances are you are going to believe he created life.

But you are asking what is "more believable". NOT...."what do you believe".

Honestly, if I were to take my faith in God and creation out of the picture and tried to be impartial in comparing the two:

random proteins combining over billions of years into more complex chemicals is pretty crazy.
some thing took a bunch of mud and made it into a person. Well, I'm not made of mud so.....

They both sound a bit out there. I can't say either one, by itself sounds more "believable".

CoreyD said:

Let me warn you, that you are going to engage in a fruitless argument that will only wear you out.
It is already clear from scripture that freedom is relative; cleanness is relative; holiness is relative; righteousness is relative.
Engaging in a debate with someone who insists on using the word "complete" to make something real, is no different to engaging in an argument with someone who insists that knowledge must be absolute, for one to have true knowledge... which is an unreasonable argument.

The argument that freedom must be "complete" for it be real freedom, is no different... either scripturally, or otherwise.
God's people have true freedom. Galatians 5:1
As you know, humans have free will too.
Don't get carried away by the "complete" argument.
No fruit will come from it.

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I just read your last email and on this subject I agree with you. Agape is Greek for GODLY love that HE gives us freely and we need to return freely. The lake of fire exists for a reason. Salvation can be lost. This is also by free will. GOD is wanting quality not quantity. GOD does know our choices before we make them but doesn't make them for us. You are correct that this issue has been pounded to much.

rambot said:

Yes it is. Read the thread title. DOn't be obtuse.

The OP already indicated he wants the tread back on topic.

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Your objection to my clarification is "interesting". . .

essentialsaltes said:

Justice Department is investigating handling of Adam Schiff [and Tish James] mortgage fraud probe led by Ed Martin and Bill Pulte​

The Justice Department is investigating whether people impersonated federal agents in mortgage fraud probes of prominent Democrats, a development that could complicate efforts to prosecute political enemies of President Donald Trump, people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The subpoena Bish received demanded she give to the prosecutors in Maryland any communications she had with “any person or persons claiming to be” working under the Federal Housing Finance Director Bill Pulte, the Justice Department official Ed Martin, or others “claiming to be acting at the direction or request” of them or their offices, according to the subpoena reviewed by CNN.

Bish, who previously ran for office in California, has publicly said she had information to share about Schiff related to his mortgages. She told CNN on Thursday that when she came to the Greenbelt courthouse, she believed she was going to provide grand jury testimony on Schiff and mortgage fraud, but ... Investigators focused their questions on two people whom Bish said reached out to her for information on Schiff.

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Am I reading this right? This probe sounds independent, very off-brand for this administration. I fear heads will roll.

Clare73 said:

Non-responsive to the question: "Is anyone able to live sinlessly?" (post #143),

asked in response to the question: 'We freely “make the moral choice” to not “live sinlessly.” '

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Ok, no one is able to live sinlessly. "And yet, can anyone sinning wantonly, willfully, gravely, enter heaven? Must we overcome sin as per Rom 8:12-14 or Heb 12:14?"

Then, whether we freely make the choice, whether are wills are at all involved, is a separate question. Again,

"In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness."

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:11-14, 20-22

ThatRobGuy said:

That's why I stated that it didn't show levelheaded leadership on Trump's part... If I thought he was fit for the function, I would've voted for him, but I didn't.

...but if the democrats are going to claim to be the "adults in the room", then this sort of goading to get a response out of him just so that we can all have the conversation we're having now, should be beneath them. That's doubly true when they're making implied suggestions to troops to do things that could land troops in legal hot water and ruin their careers.


If someone has an alcoholic neighbor who gets irrational when he drinks, should they give him a bottle whiskey and car keys (and put third parties at risk) just as a means to prove to the other neighbors "see, this is what I'm talking about!...you see what an unhinged drunk he is?

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"If someone has an alcoholic neighbor who gets irrational when he drinks, should they give him a bottle whiskey and car keys (and put third parties at risk) just as a means to prove to the other neighbors "see, this is what I'm talking about!...you see what an unhinged drunk he is?"
Under certain circumstances - yes, that might be a good thing to do. If the car is broken and the neighbour will not drive away, it might be a good thing to expose it clearly to see.
At this moment, Venezuela has not been invaded and no civilian has been shot. (Equivalent with, the car is broken). But Trump's instability is clear to see. Hence it could pave the way to use the 25th amendment, before real dammage is done.

AV1611VET said:

For 37 years???

If he had that attitude, then why was he a non-believer for 37 years?



Sounds astute.



Dear me.

You seem to have your mind set against someone, and your projector is running on high.

Do you apply those same standards of Internet comments to Google reviews?



Well you seemed to imply Mr Hovind chose his audience.

So he crossed his fingers and hoped only his followers would show up at the world's largest, fully accredited university specializing in aviation and aerospace; while everyone else stayed home?



It means he's not afraid to take on academia on its own turf.



Does that apply to all three of the speakers who were there to confront him?

Namely, Jim Strayer, Luther Reisbig, and Reinhold Schlieter?



Tax evader?

Do you apply your same standards to Antoine Lavoisier, Stewart David Nozette, John McAfee, and Yantai Gan?

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I have no desire nor need to answer any of that when the facts are plain as day for anyone with eyes and the internet to read that Kent Hovind is a liar, a fraud, a conman and a tax evader which throws into question any integrity the man has.

Jerry N. said:

Secondly, lots of people with eyes and open minds can see the earth revolving around the sun

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Well I've never seen the earth revolving around the sun & I doubt that billions have either.

Vanellus said:

IDF soldiers reveal that the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields and kills indiscrimantety:

Israeli soliders admit killing civilians and using human shields in Gaza

The makers of Breaking Ranks...

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A new documentary airing on ITV, Breaking Ranks: Inside Israel's War, claims to be “the story of the war in Gaza told by the soldiers who fought it.”

ITV’s ‘Breaking Ranks’: The IDF Soldier Documentary That Broke From the Truth

The story of the war in Gaza is, that the islamist terrorist group Hamas has effectively turned the entire civilian population of the Gaza Strip into human shields for its fight against Israel.

Always in His Presence said:

Uh huh and that has to do with Trump's generosity how?

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To do with what? The feel-good stories without evidence you posted?

But you're right. This is pointless.

BobRyan said:

Fracturing, splinterig was never God's plan for the church, even though we see it in the NT and Paul outright predicts it in Acts 20.

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Of course. Every human puts their self-interest first which gives us 8 billion paths. Much simpler to do as God said and put His will first.

chevyontheriver said:

Our consciences are not equal. They are ideally informed by God. But we inform them sometimes with junk. So it is no surprise that one person feels his conscience say ‘A’ and another says ‘Not A’. The care and feeding of one’s conscience is critical.

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In today's world, let alone in history, we have a perfect example of how narcissism can taint good intentions.

CoreyD said:

We have been through this, and I have clarified what exactly free will is.

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You're mistaken. You're still using the neutral philosophical meaning of free will that is NOT scriptural BECAUSE it does NOT acknowledge God as the Truth in the moral/immoral context of Character. Note that in scripture the children of the devil sin because they will do the works of their father. In scripture "will" means desire/intent NOT choice.

CoreyD said:

I cannot change your mindset, from the direction you want to go.

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I have the mind of Christ because I am continuing in the words Jesus spoke --> "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin". "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Clare73 said:

Your false distinction in the natures of "baby" and "fetus" is not off topic.

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Yes it is. Read the thread title. DOn't be obtuse.


The OP already indicated he wants the tread back on topic.

partinobodycular said:

But then again, it's all in the eye of the beholder. A month earlier and you'd have seen nothing but corn.

View attachment 373439

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Honestly, I LOVE that. IT reminds me of my uncle's place in northern Holland that backs onto a farm wit ha little cuvert separating it.

I bet it smells wonderful; Tilled earth is.......great.

fhansen said:

And yet, can anyone sinning wantonly, willfully, gravely, enter heaven? Must we overcome sin as per Rom 8:12-14 or Heb 12:14?

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Non-responsive to the question: "Is anyone able to live sinlessly?" (post #143),

asked in response to the statement: 'We freely “make the moral choice” to not “live sinlessly.” ' (post #140)

Clare73 said:

Is anyone able to live sinlessly?

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And yet, can anyone sinning wantonly, willfully, gravely, enter heaven? Must we overcome sin as per Rom 8:12-14 or Heb 12:14?

Fervent said:

Given that transubstantiation is a miracle, I'm not sure that blood typing restrictions would necessarily apply. It's not a transfusion or an ordinary medical procedure, so the miracle can be wrought even if it doesn't physically "make sense" for it to have such effects.

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I agree with that. Still, I would like to know Jesus' blood type, and O negative makes the most sense to me, spiritually, symbolically, physically.

Twitter thread regarding ICE discrepancies.