Vambram said:

There were no Groyper slogans on Tyler Robinson's ammunition.

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Police recovered a Mauser Model 98 rifle in a nearby wooded area soon after Charlie Kirk’s murder. Utah’s Governor, Spencer Cox, later confirmed that unfired casings carried bizarre inscriptions.

These included: “Hey fascist! Catch!” (a line from the Tarantino movie Inglorious Basterds) is featured along with arrows which reference the multiplayer video game Helldivers, and various imperatives with the word ‘fascist’ are memes in the Helldivers community, which is popular with the far right community.

The gun casing engravings included some other classic internet trolling motifs – “If you read this, you are gay, LMAO” “notices bulge OWO what’s this?” – and a single line: “Bella Ciao.”

“Bella Ciao” is a 20th-century Italian folk song that became the anthem of the anti-fascist Resistance during the Second World War. Its lyrics – “O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao, ciao, ciao! – are a mournful yet defiant farewell to a life of freedom, sung by a partisan who is fighting and expects to die for the cause of liberation from fascism. After the song gained global recognition from its feature in the Netflix series Money Heist, the Groyper movement co-opted it.

Vambram said:

The people who attempted to disrupt Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA events were people from the progressive leftist liberals.

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Despite his firebrand style, Kirk was frequently attacked by figures on the far edges of the right for being insufficiently radical. White nationalist Nick Fuentes and his followers labeled Kirk a gatekeeper, accusing him of co-opting Trump's populist energy while diluting its message. During the so-called "Groyper Wars" in 2019, Fuentes supporters regularly disrupted Kirk's campus events, targeting him for not embracing a harder line on immigration and rejecting openly homophobic rhetoric.

No point in denial.

Spiritual Jew said:

I've been away from this forum for awhile, but just came back and just now saw this post. So, you acknowledge here that there is what you called "True or Faithful Israel" and you contrasted that with "Natural Israel". And, yet, you have a problem with me saying there are two Israels. Even though you do the same. I don't get it.

Similarly, you reference a "true Jew" in contrast to "a natural Jew". Is that not two different types of Jews? Yet, despite this, you probably still claim there is only one type of Jew just like you claim there are not two Israels, but only one? Sorry, but I can't make any sense of what you believe. So be it.

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You can't make sense of it because you assume I referred to "two Israels," when I didn't. It is "True Israel" within "Israel" proper. It is faithful Jews among many Jews, some of who remain and some of who leave forever. But all who remain, faithful or not, remain "Jews."

If I have a church full of people, and all of them are Christians I would say that they are all "Christians." But inasmuch as only *some* of them are "faithful" I can say that only some of them are "faithful Christians." The unfaithful Christians may decide to leave Christianity entirely, or they may eventually repent. But those who do not leave entirely do not stop being called "Christians."

Those who are unfaithful and do not leave Christianity entirely do not become "nonChristians." Rather, only *some* of them fall away completely, and these would no longer be Christians.

In the case of Israel we would call them all "Israel" and only *some* of them "Faithful Israel?" In this case we know that God got so incensed with Unfaithful Israel that he disowned them and called them "Not My People."

I think that throws you off and makes you think that "Not My People" have stopped being "Israel." But this is just sort of a way of threatening those who are unfaithful with being cut off permanently. In reality, "Unfaithful Israel" was owned again to be called "Israel, My People." This is in Hosea.

They never stopped being "Israel." But if they completely turn away from their God forever, they stop living in Israel as well and are forced to join another nation. They are apostates who then become a different nation. They are no longer part of Israel!

You don't have to agree. But I hope this helps you to understand my position?

Bella i sent you a message. I see you have blocked me
For the people involved in this issue, please have all of my content on this thread removed.
I'm very sorry you do not wish to communicate with me.
Bill

essentialsaltes said:

'You want a fight?' Nancy Mace demands schools be defunded over reactions to Kirk's death​

"We are urging Secretary of Education Linda McMahon to take decisive action to cut off federal funding from any elementary, secondary, and post-secondary educational institution refusing to hold teachers or administrators accountable for celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk," Mace wrote on X, sharing a signed letter to United States Secretary of Education Linda McMahon.

Thoughtcrime cancellation metastasis.

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If someone thinks someone should be shot for their opinions, they shouldn't be upset if they get fired because of theirs.

Vambram said:

You would need to watch or listen to Kirk's long form videos and podcasts to get good understanding of what he said. Taking snippets out of context is never a good idea.

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I've watched enough of the content related to each clip to feel like I've got a pretty good grasp of the context. So, again, please enlighten me. If you think I've misunderstood, please explain the context that clarifies those quotes.

Tyler Robinson had nothing to do with the Groypers, despite the liberals fantasy about him.

Fervent said:

Have you read the sira or the hadith?

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I have spent well over a decade of my life immersed in Islamic culture. My knowledge on this subject comes from taking several courses in Islamic Studies from various schools of thought spread out over a period of almost four decades, living and working among Muslims in different parts of the world, and being a missionary to Muslims for the past 13+ years. There are multiple sirahs and Hadiths; I have not read or studied every single one of them in detail.

Fervent said:

Sahih al bukhari, sahih muslim, ibn ishaq, ibn tabari, ibn Hisham...which claim do you want me to show the source for?

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Great! Those are some of the sources I was hoping you would provide. Since you are using the exact same sources that Muslims use, why don't Muslims consider Muhammad to be a Warlord as you do? Why are 99.99% of the estimated 2 billion Muslims in the world not engaging in violent jihad? Muslims have access to the same exact sources that you do, yet they are coming away with a completely different intrepretation and understanding of their religion than you are.

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that this was because most Muslims aren't particularly religious or have never read any of their religious texts in a language they understand, but a large percentage of Muslims are deeply religious, have attended madrasas where they study the Qur'an, Hadith, and other Islamic texts, and many have read and studied these Islamic texts in their native language. While an exact number is impossible to determine, even if only 1 in 4 Muslims are knowledgeable of their religion, that would be around 500 million Muslims. Why are fewer than 1% of these knowledgeable Muslims practicing violent jihad?

If Islam taught and was anything like what you posted in this thread, the entire world would be in chaos, Islam would be looked upon the same as Nazism rather than praised by historians and world leaders as one of the world's great religions, few if any people would voluntarily become a Muslim, and it certainly wouldn't be the second largest religion in the world today with close to 2 billion followers.

RocksInMyHead said:

Please, enlighten me.

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You would need to watch or listen to Kirk's long form videos and podcasts to get good understanding of what he said. Taking snippets out of context is never a good idea.

The Barbarian said:

Groyper slogans were engraved on the ammunition Robinson used. And they hated Charlie Kirk, disrupting his events. Sometimes with violence.

Despite his firebrand style, Kirk was frequently attacked by figures on the far edges of the right for being insufficiently radical. White nationalist Nick Fuentes and his followers labeled Kirk a gatekeeper, accusing him of co-opting Trump's populist energy while diluting its message. During the so-called "Groyper Wars" in 2019, Fuentes supporters regularly disrupted Kirk's campus events, targeting him for not embracing a harder line on immigration and rejecting openly homophobic rhetoric.

In MAGA, Charlie Kirk was a moderate. What comes next may be more extreme

In the aftermath of his assassination, concerns are mounting that the space Kirk once occupied may quickly be filled by more radical voices calling for revenge.

www.newsweek.com

How is that "baseless?" C'mon.

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There were no Groyper slogans on Tyler Robinson's ammunition. The people who attempted to disrupt Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA events were people from the progressive leftist liberals.

boughtwithaprice said:

You say you are not refusing God, yet offer no evidence. I did not come to you. You came to my thread and decided to post. If you are relying on God, why come to me?
Did you just wish to throw shade at my thoughts or discourage others from considering them?
It is a simple question. Have we considered writings of men close to the Apostles, let’s look at them and see?
I see no evidence that you have even read the writings proposed, but just decided to puff yourself up and tell us that you do not have to do so. That again begs the question, If you are following God, why are you here? You accuse me of not listening to you, incorrectly by the way, but you came and did not even agree to participate with the OP. If you had, you would have shown me that you read the writings

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Suggestions to answer the question. You are being very defensive and accusatory by saying I'm denying God just because I said I make sure that what man tells me follows and is in line with God. But for some reason you want to be combative. Do whatever you want to do. I'm not even definitively demanding you do anything but for some reason you want to be aggressive with me and claim I'm not accepting God WRONGLY just because I made the comment that I place a hierarchy on the information that is shared with me. I have tried to explain my answer multiple times despite you misunderstanding me, and I dont need to be lectured when all I was offering was suggestions based on the scripture I read.

So I'm bowing out of this ridiculous thread since you dont want discussions, you just want to argue and toss around accusations while claiming to speak for God.

Raiders v. Chargers

Vorixia said:

I hope everyone's doing well

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Welcome!

A lot of workplaces have social media policies. If you go on there posting your real face or your real name and make statements devaluing human life, it's no surprise you get fired. It's disturbing that so many of these people are teachers. I heard a story about a teacher (in Canada, I think) playing the Kirk assassination on a loop for an hour to her class of 10 year olds, saying he deserved it, of course. From what I've seen on the web, there must be millions of these people celebrating a man's murder - clearly there are a lot of psychopaths in this country.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Not in the present, no. We have been advised by Gods Word of our current status. No one is going to be sinless until Satan and his messengers are sent to the flames.

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I choose to not put such limits on God. God has the power to make us sinless, but chooses not to, because as individuals we have not made ourselves worthy of redemption. And we only know if we have been granted mercy through Christ after we have died. The only way your arguments make any sense is if everyone is eventually redeemed by Jesus, regardless of their earthly acts.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Your claim is incorrect. Mark 4:15 happened to both Adam and Eve, openly evidenced before they ever took a bite

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Romans 5:19 clearly states that it was the disobedience of Adam that brought sin into the world. Therefore it is the logical conclusion that before his disobedience he had no sin. Your continued quoting of the parable in Mark 4 does not change that. If anything Mark 4 shows the different choices people tend to make, when brought into temptation by Satan. There's nothing that makes me read into it that Satan makes the decision for us.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Uh no. That never happened either. That would actually be a heretical position

Jesus has been and will be Perect Everlasting

Notions that he had to make himself sinless by choosing is nonsense.

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I didn't say that. Jesus did not have to make himself sinless. He was completely sinless, and remained that way despite temptation and enduring every sort of torture. And obviously it was of deep concern to him

Matthew 26:39, 42
Mark 14:36
Luke 22:42

And being exposed to temptation is not what makes you sin. It is acting on that temptation that causes you to sin. Otherwise you cannot explain this.

Matthew 4:4
Luke 4:4

Or whatever these scriptures imply?

Matthew 16:23
Mark 8:33

BelieveItOarKnot said:

You're simply missing the obvious. The TEMPTER sinned in them both and in us all

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And you're missing the point. If you are correct what can I or anyone else do about it if our sin is forced upon us.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The fact that we even have a choice of evil means evil is therein to choose. There is however no option to NOT have evil to choose from. Get it?

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Obviously, but having the choice is not the sin. Choosing evil is the sin.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

As Paul accurately stated, evil was present with him, Romans 17-21, a messenger of Satan and temptation in his own sorry hide, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14

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But he doesn't always choose evil. It is merely present all around him and he works to keep it controlled. What is the entire sermon on the mount about. It is about fighting your impulses and choosing to be peaceable, Godly, righteous and showing love to your neighbor.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Yes it is. People are predestined to be saved and the devils are predestined to the LoF

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We are not predestined to be saved. We are destined to be saved only if we repent and choose God.