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Studyman · 2025-12-11T10:53:51-0600

Hentenza said:
First you accuse me of using AI.

Here is your exact quote for your thread"

"Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday"

The writings of Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. In other words, the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday."

When I placed your thread in my Microsoft Bing search bar, ""Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday"

Here is the AI generated response from Microsoft Bing

Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teaches that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God. She asserts that the vast majority of Christians are doomed for worshipping our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Word for word. Since the article you posted doesn't teach that "Ellen White, a prophet of the Seventh Day Adventist church, teach that those who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God", I tried to find out where this teaching comes from.

I placed your thread ""Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday" into the search bar of my Microsoft Bing search engine, and as you can see, the AI generated response was word for word what you posted. I can not find this teaching anywhere else, certainly not in the "Link" you provided while you were searching the Web for information on Ellen White. The only source I could find to support your teaching, was from you and a word for word AI response I received when I searched your thread.

If you didn't search your own thread, like I did, when you were searching the internet to find information on EGW, and it was simply an astonishing and unbelievable coincidence that your statement, and the AI generated response I got, were word for word, and both wrong according to the very Link you provided, I am sorry. And I apologize for assuming that you googled your own thread when you were on the internet searching for information regarding your own thread.

Hentenza said:
In this quote you maliciously truncated my opening post to make it say something that I did not say.

Your judgment of "maliciously truncated" your opening post is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. I was simply correcting an error you were making concerning EGW's teaching.

Neither Ellen White, nor the SDA church, nor does any of this world's religious sects, teach that men "who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God".

The issue isn't about what days to worship God. Your sermon, and consequently the AI response I got when googling your thread, makes it about what day to worship God, but White, and the SDA do not. It's about the re-writing of God's commandments, specifically the 4th of the 10 Commandments Given by God in Ex. 20.

This is true according to writings of White, and the RCC who took it upon themselves to re-write the Commandment.

"The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4."

Again, since you replied to my post, I am obligated to point out the truth that the controversy was never about "what Day to Worship God". It was about the re-writing of a Commandment of God.

Hentenza said:
You even go as far as editing your opponent’s words to say something they did not say. That is low.

The difference between us, is that I corrected my mistake, but the false premise that you promoted remained the same even after I corrected myself. It doesn't matter whether it was EGW, or SDA, or both, neither of them taught "that men who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God".

In fact, the only preacher I have ever heard that promotes that EGW taught "that men who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God", is you and the AI feature in Microsoft Bing, when your thread is placed in the search bar. And both of you used the exact same wording, word for word.

Now that you claim this was just some strange coincidence, that you were on the internet searching about EGW, even found a link that you posted in your search, but didn't search "Ellen White on the mark of the beast for those that worship on Sunday", Yet quoted Word for Word the AI response one will get if they search your thread on Microsoft Bing, is truly remarkable, astonishing, unbelievable in fact.

And if I was wrong to assume that when you were on the Internet, searching about EGW, that you didn't search your own thread, and copied and pasted the response I got, then I am sorry.

I was hoping to discuss your statement that EGW taught "that men who worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast and will reject the seal of God", which is untrue.

I apologize if I was wrong in my assumption concerning the source of your teaching.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-12-11T10:52:21-0600

WordSword said:
Hi NLICJ, and appreciate your reply! The error I'm referring to is that which is intended by, not those who believe they have truth but may contain error, but those who want to believe what they want, even if it's not according to Scriptures. I do not see this anywhere at a high level when considering how many Churches there are that want truth!

It is hard to overlook the many doctrinal mis-steps of a few denominations. I will never consider joining any of them. So that is why I am doing my research ahead of time. Even if it has "Baptist" in its name, that doesn't mean it is a good church.

MarcusGregor · 2025-12-11T10:51:17-0600

This is blatantly unconstitutional. But if allowed to stand I look forward to moving to Colorado so I can send my kids to an explicitly atheist school that teaches that all religions are myths and there are no gods. Or perhaps a Satanic Temple school. Muslim schools. Hindu schools. all on the taxpayer dime!

AstralHammer · 2025-12-11T10:51:08-0600

@CoreyD
@Delvianna
You have very focused responses. Thank you. It's all certainly something to think about and I appreciate the accompanying verses from the Bible.

I don't think you can ever look too deep into all of this.

I do find it difficult finding video games to play these days as opposed to before when I far away from God or was less mature in the relationship I have with Him.

That is a very interesting not about mathematics, especially in what is part of everyday that we feel we can explain away as opposed to our ancestors in which I am sure they would explain it all as magic, demonic even. This gives me something to think about, as their view could have possibly been spot on if they were exposed to many of things we have in our everyday lives today.

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-11T10:50:20-0600

Bro.T said:
Over the years many have taught various ways to receive everlasting life. No wonder the world is full of so many denominations. All of these different doctrines, seemingly coming from the bible, tend only to confuse people. Most people don't know what to believe and simply choose not to attend any church. Salvation, what would you trade fore it? This is a question you should ask yourself. The answer should be nothing. What people fail to realize is Adam sin and brought forth the first and second death, and that second is the lake of fire. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12)

So at this point the creation is lock under these two death, this is before Jesus of course. I find that a lot of people don’t understand this. We have a lot righteous prophets and people in the old testament, but still lock under those two death. We also have a lot of evil people in the old testament who will still be lock under those two death. If you are lock under those two death, this mean you will be raise from dead, and Judged, then headed straight for the lake of fire. So now, Jesus came and die for the world and bless us with grace, so that our righteousness which will remove the second death.

Jesus says in Luke: 31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. See sin is what got us these two death in the first place. Let’s take a look at the biblical definition of sin. 1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.)

So when you sin, you transgress the law, what law? The Commandments brother and Sisters. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. (2 John 1: 6,8,9)

So if you think because Jesus die for our sins, and you don’t have to keep the law (Commandments) then you are sinning, and Paul told us in Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We all have to do the samething to get in the kingdom of God, and one of those things is keeping the Commandments. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

This sounds like salvation by works and forsakes Salvation by Grace. It elevates man and dishonors God.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T10:50:10-0600

Servus said:
Hundreds of airstrikes in Pakistan over a period of 14 years wasn't relegated to the perpetrators of 9/11. Trump is going to stomp the tar out of Narco, no matter how much cretin people complain about it. Maybe they'll start holding "Free Narco" rallies next.

View attachment 374357
"From Venezuela to the Caribbean Sea, Narco will be Free!"

Over the past 14 years, Presidents from both political parties have been able to order airstrikes over Pakistan because Congress granted them this authority to target Islamic terrorists. Congress provided this authorization with specific criteria for designating terrorists, focusing particularly on Islamic extremism. This guidance does not apply to individuals involved in narcotrafficking.

I support President Trump’s efforts to combat drug trafficking. However, I believe that if the United States intends to target vessels in the Caribbean engaged in narcotics transport, the current administration should seek congressional authorization for such actions or request that Congress officially designate narcotics traffickers as terrorists.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-11T10:48:18-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
I am a conservative, but not MAGA!

I am a liberal, but not a WOKO!

...Never got drunk on the toxic empathy.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:47:58-0600

Desk trauma said:
How’s that replacement plan going? Any concepts?

I believe the plan that has been tossed around was to give people vouchers directly so they can buy whatever health insurance they want. Better than throwing more money at insurance companies so they can raise rates and profit margins.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-12-11T10:46:58-0600

I am currently looking for a church home. I visited the latest one twice and listened to a few other sermons online. It seems that the pastor is strong on preaching against sin (some sins) but is weak on 1) how to avoid sin, 2) what to do about sin after you do it, and 3) the lack of condemnation for those who are in Christ. As a result, I decided to look elsewhere primarily because of the weaknesses above. I thought I could help them if I joined, but I decided that inertia was against me and I didn't want to become like them.

CoreyD · 2025-12-11T10:45:34-0600

Delvianna said:
I don't think it's really knowledge though, but I do think it's passed off as knowledge. For instance, ultimately the power comes from either God or demons, there is no 3rd option. We know God has power (I mean, I don't think I need to back that up lol) but Satan does too! An example of this is that the false prophet in Revelation is able to call down fire from heaven (Revelation 13:13) and back during Moses, Pharoh's "magicians" were able to duplicate the staff turning into a snake, water to blood and frogs but there was stuff they couldn't do:

So back to the false prophet, what comes out of his mouth?

So that is who is giving them power. So essentially, it's kind of like Satan sets up something that demons carry out. Does the act itself do anything? Nope, but the demons are told that if someone does this act, to carry it through because ultimately it defiles themselves.

So when it comes to the concept of arcane magic, like it's the "force" in Star Wars, I don't agree and I think that concept alone is a trap to get people to think they can wield power outside it being backed by demons, when I don't think is the case. I mean, what is Satans ultimate argument? You can be your own god, right? The idea of arcane magic, I think pushes that narrative of 'gods' all the while cleverly making it more appealing like it has nothing to do with Satan and his minions...

In other words, people think they are actually manipulating natural elements, by their own efforts and abilities, when in fact they are being manipulated, by the unseen forces... sort of like when they think they see aliens, but aren't aware that what they are seeing, is what they are being manipulated to see.
That makes sense, and it certainly explains why they use things such as wands, and other objects, which the demons work through.
I was thinking of those same scriptures you used. They strengthen the point.
No wonder God told his people to stay far from magic, or divination... not even casting spells.

This knowledge is timely for me, because I am dealing with what I believe is divination being practiced where I am living.
I don't know how the person is able to do what they do, but this arcane magic explains it. I know it's with the help of demons, but I now have a better understanding of it.
Great stuff!

WordSword · 2025-12-11T10:44:41-0600

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
This seems to be an impossible standard. I have not run across any denomination or individual church or pastor whose doctrines contain no error whatsoever.

Hi NLICJ, and appreciate your reply! The error I'm referring to is that which is intended by, not those who believe they have truth but may contain error, but those who want to believe what they want, even if it's not according to Scriptures. I do not see this anywhere at a high level when considering how many Churches there are that want truth!

Hentenza · 2025-12-11T10:44:19-0600

samaus123456789 said:
I pasted what I wrote into chat gpt and it gave me this

Rev 12 commentary

1. THE WOMAN = ISRAEL Revelation 12:1 uses Genesis 37:9–10. Sun = Jacob. Moon = Rachel. Twelve stars = tribes of Israel. Thus the woman = covenant Israel, the Old Covenant people who produced the Messiah, the apostles, and the first Judean Christian remnant.

2. THE MALE CHILD = JESUS Revelation 12:5: Messiah destined to rule (Psalm 2). Family flees to Egypt to escape Herod. Maybe they were gone 3.5 years. Don't know what the Jesus caught up to heaven thing is.

3. THE HERODS = all the different HEADS & HORNS OF THE DRAGON/BEAST Herod the Great — tried to kill infant Jesus (Matthew 2:13–18) Herod Archelaus — avoided by Joseph due to violence (Matthew 2:22) Herod Antipas — killed John (Mark 6), mocked Jesus (Luke 23:7–11) Herod Philip — tetrarch Herod Agrippa I — killed James, imprisoned Peter (Acts 12) Herod Agrippa II — opposed Paul (Acts 25–26), backed Rome Herodian women — Bernice, Drusilla, Salome (Acts 24:24; Josephus) All persecuted Christ and His people. They were the dragon’s earthly instrument.

4. THE WAR IN HEAVEN WAS LITERAL Jesus Himself said: Luke 10:18 — “I saw Satan FALL like lightning from heaven.” John 12:31 — “NOW is the judgment of this world; NOW shall the prince of this world be CAST OUT.” Revelation 12:7–9: Michael defeats Satan; Satan expelled; Satan descends to attack Jerusalem and the Church. Daniel 12:1: “Michael shall stand up… there shall be a time of trouble.” This time = 66–70 AD

5. 1 ENOCH 70-GENERATION PROPHECY 1 Enoch 10: angels bound “for 70 generations, until the day of judgment.” Using Septuagint genealogies: Enoch → 70 generations → Jesus. Thus Jesus arrives precisely when the countdown ends. The war in heaven, Satan’s fall, and Jerusalem’s destruction complete Enoch’s prophecy

6. THE SECOND COMING WAS LITERAL AND VISIBLE IN 70 AD Revelation 1:7 — “Every eye shall SEE Him, even those who pierced Him.” “Those who pierced Him” = the Sanhedrin still alive. Jesus predicted this exact visible event: Matthew 24:30 — “They shall SEE the Son of Man coming in the clouds…” Matthew 16:27 — “The Son of Man will come… WITH HIS ANGELS.

Matthew 26:64 — “YOU will SEE the Son of Man at the right hand of Power, coming in the clouds.” Judeans literally saw Jesus above Jerusalem: — At the right hand of the Father — In the clouds — Surrounded by all the holy angels

7. JOSEPHUS CONFIRMS some SKY SIGNS Wars 6.5.3 (Whiston): “Before sunset, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running among the clouds and surrounding cities." Tacitus said the same, and the same kind of thing was seen when God was judging Jerusalem in 1/2 Maccabees in the 100s BC

8. THE MOURNING OF JUDEA Revelation 1:7 — “All tribes of the LAND will mourn.” Two types: • Terror — those dying in Jerusalem saw Jesus and mourned in horror. • Repentance — Christian Judeans fleeing to Pella saw Jesus and mourned for rejecting Him. Fulfills Zechariah 12:10 — “They shall look upon Me whom they pierced and mourn.”
9. THE WOMAN’S FLIGHT = PELLA Revelation 12:14–16: The Judean Christians are taken out of the promise land on Eagle’s wings), just like God took their ancient ancestors out of Egypt on eagles wings (Exodus 19:4. They had to cross the Jordan to get into the promise land now they are fleeing the old covenant promise land over the Jordan to Pella. The devil tries to flood the Jordan but God swallows the water. Flight to Pella - Wikipedia

10. THE WOES OF JESUS = THE WOES OF REVELATION Matthew 23 — Seven Woes upon Pharisees: “All these things shall come upon THIS generation.” Revelation 8–12 — Three Woes upon Jerusalem, “the city where their Lord was crucified” (Rev 11:8). Revelation’s woes = execution of Matthew 23.

11. REVELATION 9 — APOLLYON = TITUS OF LEGIO XV APOLLINARIS Revelation 9:11 — “Apollyon” = Apollo. Titus commanded Legion XV Apollinaris (Apollo’s legion). Locusts = armies (Joel 1–2). Roman siege machinery fits the imagery. Thus: locusts = Roman armies; king = Apollo → Titus.

12. REVELATION 11 — TRAMPLING OF THE TEMPLE Revelation 11:2 — Holy city trampled 42 months = 66–70 AD. Revelation 11:8 — “Where their Lord was crucified” = Jerusalem. Revelation 11:19 — Heavenly ark appears; earthly Temple replaced.

that is the main parts of Rev 1-12 I know. In the first few pages of Rev 1 Jesus said the time is near, soon, at hand, and he tells one church he is coming back in their generation. Rev 1-12 was just Gods judgement on Judea for killing Jesus, the apostles and for all the blood shed in history back to Abel.

Rev 13-22 is future still not until 4400-4500 AD based on 1 Enoch's 10,000 year prophecy
Jesus ben Ananias - Wikipedia sounds like one of the two witnesses but does not match. whoever they were they happened. gospel of nicodemus, history of joseph the carpenter, apocalypse of peter all internally written pre 70 ad, and i believe are inspired said it was going to be enoch and elijah

In your point 6 you claim that Jesus second coming has already happened, however, Rev. 19, which you state that is yet to come, describes the actual second coming of Christ. How do you account for the discrepancy?

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-11T10:44:07-0600

Oompa Loompa said:
Yes. After September 11, 2001, Congress gave the president the authorization to identify terrorist groups and use military force against them.

You are correct—Congress granted the President authorization; however, this authorization outlines specific criteria for designating terrorists, with a particular focus on Islamic extremism. This guidance does not extend to individuals involved in narcotrafficking.

Here is my concern with supporters of President Trump. I understand that you want to support him in all of this, and you want him to go after narco traffickers. However, my point is: why can’t President Trump use the proper channels? Why does he have to bypass established procedures to accomplish these goals? There’s no point in having checks and balances in our Constitution if, every time there’s an emergency, we ignore legal procedures.

MarcusGregor · 2025-12-11T10:32:54-0600

Pentagon Unveils New GenAI Platform, It Immediately Starts Flagging Pete Hegseth's War Crimes - Above the Law

The Defense Department's new ChatJAG turned out to be better than the human chain of command.

abovethelaw.com

Oopsie!

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-11T10:29:18-0600

Servus said:
Time is too precious of a commodity to waste it on reading Politico.

Being wrong is so much more efficient.

NewLifeInChristJesus · 2025-12-11T10:25:44-0600

WordSword said:
It's my understanding that any religion that teaches anything that is against the Scriptures is a false religion, i.e. anti-Christian!

This seems to be an impossible standard. I have not run across any denomination or individual church or pastor whose doctrines contain no error whatsoever.

Belk · 2025-12-11T10:22:54-0600

Servus said:
Mabey someday you'll actually discuss the topic.

My points do not seem to be received by you. It makes discussion frustrating and seems to upset you, as evidenced by your claims of my malfeasance. :wave:

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:14:20-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Did the United States Senate grant authorization to the current President to take action against narcotics traffickers?

Yes. After September 11, 2001, Congress gave the president the authorization to identify terrorist groups and use military force against them.

JM · 2025-12-11T10:12:40-0600

It knows your bias, it already knows you are an Adventist...that's who AI works.

BobRyan said:
I did not mention my bias. I never asked for the Adventist church to even be in the list.

The only theological POV I specified was "Sola scriptura testing of doctrine".

If your point is that such a search criteria is just another way to say "select the Adventist denomination" , then I am more than a little bit surprised that you consider this to be a clear selection for "just the Adventist denomination

I am pretty sure that if I had asked the question "which denomination would Dr. Ben Carson, or Ellen White prefer", I would get "Adventist" as the answer but I did not specify that kind of selection criteria

CoreyD · 2025-12-11T10:10:02-0600

AstralHammer said:
I cannot wait until Gate Zero comes out. I've had it on my wishlist for some time.
I have created a criteria to base my future gaming off of.

Must be MMO or persistent multiplayer
Absolutely no non-Christian deity worship or deity-sourced powers (no gods, pantheons, altars, blessings, priests, divine magic, etc.)
No furry / anthro / beast race options (playable or major NPCs)
Arcane or learned magic is fine
Elemental / natural magic is fine
PvE-friendly content required (safe zones, PvE servers, or opt-in PvP only)
Crafting, building, or housing systems (the deeper the better)
Active playerbase in 2025 (not dead or <100 concurrent)
Actually released and playable now (or very close with confirmed global date)

I've been doing some research and have came up with these games that interest me.
War of Rights
Star Citizen
Albion Online
Myth of Empires
Corepunk
Avorion
…and Bellatores on the 2026 watchlist. English will be supported in the full release but is not supported in closed beta.

I am still researching to enhance my list of possible games to try out. The list might not be perfect and I still trying to refine it and might have to trim something out. Maybe one of them will actually work out.

Man's doctrine may change, but God does not.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. - Hebrews 13:8

That's an interesting bit of information.
I've never heard about until now.
I had to research it.

Arcane magic, also known as learned magic, is a disciplined and scholarly pursuit that involves the study and mastery of magical principles through rigorous training and knowledge acquisition. It is typically drawn from invisible streams of energy known as arcane currents, which flow through reality and can be harnessed by those who understand their patterns. Practitioners of arcane magic, such as wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, and bards, often rely on incantations, gestures, arcane runes, and tools like wands or spellbooks to channel and focus this power. +source The magic is often described as a form of science or mathematics, involving precise calculations and formulas to manipulate the fabric of reality.

When I read this, I wondered, '...but how would one go about determining what kind of magic God required his people to stay away from, when he said, "you shall not practice magic." Leviticus 19:26, and "There shall not be found among you ... anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer, casts spells... For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD." Deuteronomy 18:10, 12"

Learned magic was available, from the beginning, even into the first century.
When Paul was performing miracles, and the people saw the power of God, over that of the magic practicing Jews, "a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver." Acts 19:19

What were the arts learned by the Babylonian (Daniel 1:20), Philistines (Isaiah 2:6), and Egyptian(Exodus 7:11) priests?

Evidence of arcane or learned magic in ancient Egypt and Babylon is well-documented through literary, religious, and material sources. Sources 1 2 3

In ancient Egypt, magical practice was deeply integrated into religious and medical traditions, with practitioners known as lector-priests (ẖry-ḥb), who were highly educated and served as ritual specialists. These individuals were responsible for reciting incantations, performing healing rituals, and conducting ceremonies such as the "Opening of the Mouth" to ensure the deceased’s passage into the afterlife. The concept of Heka, a divine force believed to be capable of manipulating reality, underpinned much of their practice, blurring the line between magic, religion, and medicine. Magical texts, including funerary spells and daily-use incantations, provide detailed instructions on rituals, tools, and materials, indicating a structured and learned tradition. The title "ḥarṭummīm," used in the Hebrew Bible to describe Egyptian magicians, is a Hebrew rendering of the Egyptian "ẖry-ḥb," confirming the elite status and scholarly nature of these practitioners.

In Babylon, magic was similarly institutionalized and tied to priestly and scholarly roles. The Chaldeans, who were regarded as a colony of the Egyptians by Diodorus of Sicily, were known for their expertise in astronomy and divination, which were considered forms of magical knowledge. Babylonian magicians, or "Chaldeans," were consulted for interpreting dreams and omens, as seen in the biblical accounts of King Nebuchadnezzar and King Belshazzar summoning them to interpret dreams and mysterious inscriptions like "Mene, Tekel, Perez". The practice of divination using arrows, known as Rhabdomanteia, was also documented among the Babylonians, reflecting a systematic approach to magical consultation. The high regard for magical knowledge is further evidenced by King Darius, son of Hystaspes, who had the inscription "That he had been the chief and the master of the Magi of Persia" engraved on his father’s mausoleum, highlighting the prestige of magical expertise in the region.

In ancient Egypt, arcane or learned magic was deeply intertwined with literacy, religious practice, and the possession of secret knowledge, primarily transmitted through written texts.
History of Magic
Magic in Ancient Egypt

I think you just added to the interest of this thread, and my knowledge.
Fascinating stuff!
The learned magician was often depicted as a scholar who derived power from written spells and sacred books. The famous Demotic tales of Setne Khaemwaset, son of Ramesses II, exemplify this archetype; Setne’s quest for the Book of Thoth symbolizes the acquisition of arcane knowledge that grants control over supernatural forces.

Similarly, in the story of Djedi, a hundred-year-old magician summoned by King Hordjedef, his powers are explicitly tied to written knowledge - he demands a boat to carry his students and writings, emphasizing the importance of textual transmission.
This model of the literate magician, who uses written spells to manipulate reality, was central to both literary and non-literary magical traditions.

The use of written magic was reinforced by the belief that writing itself had transformative power.
The Egyptians believed that inscribing a name or image could influence reality, a principle seen in execration texts where figurines of enemies were inscribed with their names and then destroyed to symbolically defeat them. Magical papyri, such as the Harris Magical Papyrus and the Metternich Stela, contain spells that combine mythological references (translation magic), analogic principles (like affects like), and contagious magic (using objects imbued with power). These texts were often used by the literate elite, as most Egyptians were not able to read, and spells were sometimes activated by drinking water that had been poured over a stela.

Even in the Graeco-Roman period, learned magicians continued to play significant roles, using Greek and Demotic scripts, along with non-alphabetic magical signs (charaktêres) and incantations (voces magicae), to invoke ancient, secret knowledge. The figure of the magician was not limited to priests; doctors, midwives, and wise women also employed ḥeka in healing and protection, though the most powerful forms of magic were associated with those who had access to written traditions and temple libraries.

It makes sense, doesn't it, that this knowledge would be passed on to man, through fallen angels.
When you think about it, can the science of computers and similar devices be use to perform arcane magic? Nothing to doubt. People already believe this is happening.

@Delvianna would you agree?
As for me, the wisdom of applying the first part of Proverbs 22:3 is necessary here.

A sensible person sees danger and takes cover, but the inexperienced keep going and are punished.

Brightfame52 · 2025-12-11T10:08:48-0600

Dikaioumenoi said:
, but the central idea is ability, not the fact of coming itself.

I disagree, it includes the coming. Seems you still leaving room for mans will to seal the deal

Dikaioumenoi said:
I do agree with you when you say "the drawing results in discipleship and fellowship with Christ,"

Doesnt seem like it

Dikaioumenoi said:
but I do not think you can conclude that from "no one can come to me unless drawn." All that "no one can come to me unless drawn" tells us is that the drawing is necessary in order for coming to occur, not sufficient to produce coming.

I disagree, that defeats the need of drawing to Christ, you may as well say man has the freewill to come to Christ

Dikaioumenoi said:
What does entail sufficiency, however, is the final clause, "and I will raise him up on the last day." It is that statement that tells us the one drawn/enabled = the one who actually comes and is raised.

Now that's a contradiction. No disrespect but you seem doubleminded on this matter.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:07:19-0600

Yarddog said:
Didn't say we were.

The US isn't at war with Cartels. Trump is helping some and bombing others. It seems on who is helping Trump.

I stand corrected. The US is in Armed Conflict with drug cartels.

Oompa Loompa · 2025-12-11T10:06:04-0600

DaisyDay said:
Automobile sales have resulted in the deaths of hundred of thousands of citizens and non-citizens alike.

What is your point? That drug deaths are not important enough to be concerned about?

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