Maria Billingsley said:

Thanks for sharing. I have no interest in derailing this thread.

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That's not a derail when the topic is literally talking about what is the congregation as a whole which is why I replied what I did and then you replied to me claiming all denominations are apart of his flock. So this is absolutely on topic, but if you don't want to answer, that's fine.

Stopped_lurking said:

From my reading of philosophers, it seems that question is not conclusively answered with regards to the cause of the universe.

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Desperation from philosophers to preserve an absurdity doesn't make it defensible. If an infinite chain of people borrowed sugar, the existence of the sugar is not explained at all.

Stopped_lurking said:

If you want to be convincing you need to explain why you find it an absurdity not you just stating it so, and why that would mean that we are left without explanation.

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I've stated the absurdity, because there is no explanation of why anything exists at all. It's magical thinking that somehow everything exists, but none of it is sufficiently explained. The question is why would we entertain it, not why it should be regarded as absurd.

Stopped_lurking said:

An infinite regress doesn't mean that everything is unexplained, it means that the number of explanations are infinite. It is not at all clear why it would be vicious.

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It certainly does, regress in such a situation can only explain relationships but all explanatory power drains away because we are left with an infinite chain of suspended explanations being promised that can never be delivered upon.

Delvianna said:

So, do you believe someone can believe Christ was just a prophet, you can sin as much as you want, and Jesus isn't God, and still get to heaven? Because you keep replying with "Only God knows the heart" when scripture has tons of examples of people leading others to hell that is even more nuanced than false doctrine, like the practices the Pharisees were teaching. This is why the road is narrow and few find it because not all beliefs = heaven. Mormons believe you become equal to God, is that not blasphemy? Do people who regularly blaspheme God by that belief go to heaven? I think you need to expand your view point because you're leaving out a lot.

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Thanks for sharing. I have no interest in derailing this thread.

wing2000 said:

It seems the House will seek to reverse the provision passed in the Senate Bill:

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How ya gonna get any doit on Adam Schiff if you can't spy on him?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Eccl. 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Matt. 23:9 for the kicker
And you don't see the circular argument therein?
Immortal life but absence of eternal life doesn't add up
There is no difference between immortal life and eternal life

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And you don't see the major misunderstanding therein?

The natures of divine life, angelic life and human life are not the same.

Divine life had no beginning, and has no end.

Angelic life had a beginning, is without a material body and has no ending.

Human life resides in a material body, has a beginning and an ending.

Angelic life is not divine life is not human life.

The Lone Ranger said:

Elvis dated Priscilla Presley when she was 14, but nobody wants to go after Tye King Of Rock and roll though. Nor the Rap stars, or Rock stars that do the same... one man's sins are greater than another's........

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Rich powerful men have had other rich powerful men to protect them. But the world is changing on this point. P Diddy, Harvey Weinstein, Epstein...

inconvenient at the grocery store when you need something off the top shelf.

Just ask…

David Lamb said:

The verse about stretching a line actually says (in the KJV which you seem to quote from):

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

No "across" there, is there?

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Job 38:4 4Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched a measuring line across it? 6On what were its foundations set, or who laid its cornerstone

Tigger Boy said:

Yes indeed both Paul and Jesus called the third heaven paradise because it’s farther out, than the first heaven in which birds and plans fly and the law of gravity is in play. The second is where the planets are suspended beyond the laws of gravity. The third heaven is beyond all that which we can’t see into and where God and angels reside and New Jerusalem. Neither you or I have ever heard of a forth heaven. Thus logic would lead one to believe that the third heaven is Paradise since it obviously is neither the first or second. You state, “Paradise is the third heaven as Paul describes in 2 Cor. 12. This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been in John 20:17.” That statement is true, except, “This heaven is not the same as where Jesus explains He has not been to in John 20:17,” for the reasoning given.Your error in reasoning does not lesson the fact that Jesus never left his tomb before Sunday morning to return to His Father in the third heaven/paradise as both Paul and Jesus refer to it, supporting the fact that the comma in Lk 23:43 should have been placed after the word “today” not in front of it.

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1. I never mentioned a fourth heaven do not sure where you go that from.

2. Jesus body remained in the tomb for three days but His divine self did not. 1 Peter 3 tells us that He ministered to the spirits in “prison” and that He went to paradise as He told the thief. This has been Christian teaching since the beginning.

Tigger Boy said:

The remainder of your post deals with your understanding of a soul. I explained to you the very essence of a soul in my first post to you, but you have not grasped its true meaning so l will explain again what the Bible reveals. Look again at (Genesis 2:7) One must understand that man was formed from two elements, dust of the earth, and the breath of life from Jesus our creator. It is only when these “Two elements” come together that a “living soul” is created, thus man became a living soul/ person/being. Please realize that Jesus did not put a living soul in man, but rather man became a “living soul” only when those two elements were combined. Now let’s give thought to death. Based on Gen. 2:7 description of a living soul, does it not make sense that death would occur when the body and breath are separated? If that makes sense to you, then we also must understand that the living soul ceases to exist, thus a living soul dies,
( Ez.18;20) and the living soul/ person/ being knows nothing (Ecc. 9: 5,6, 10) This is the first death of mankind, and is the consequences of sin, and Jesus refers to this first death as sleep,(Jn 11:11-14) because all who experience the first death will latter be called forth from the grave in either the first of second resurrection, after the seven last plagues, not at death. (Jn. 5:28, 29)

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” You state, “Acts 2:29 only talks about David’s grave not about his soul.” When a sole is correctly understood as a living being/person, then it would not make sense in this verse to talk about his soul since David was a living soul and is mentioned by name. Luke drives home the fact that David is nowhere, other than in his tomb since his death, and his soul is not in paradise/the third heaven.

Psalms 115:17, “The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence”. This texts makes perfect sense just as it reads when one understands the correct understanding of a iiving sole/ person/being when they die. They are silent/asleep in their grave, in the first death, therefore they cannot praise the Lord, until they are resurrected. Please note in this texts no mention of any living souls going to paradise/third heaven. With respect to this verse you claim, “the dead bodies do not praise the Lord but the souls do … ) Yes, common sense leads one to believe that bodies do not praise the Lord, but you inject the idea that the souls of those dead bodies do, when it is never mentioned in this text. Why, because the souls of these dead do not exist since the “body and breath ” has been separated upon their death, therefore the living soul does not exist, thus incapable of giving praise to God.

(Ecc 9:5,6, 10) “5) For the living[souls/persons/beings] know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,[because they are no longer living souls/ persons/being] And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6) Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun. 10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

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I already responded to the verses you quoted here in my last post. My response is not going to change.

Secondly why do you ignore verses that do not agree with you?

“then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

This is about as clear as it gets. The body returns to dust and to the earth while the spirit (soul) returns to God. You can’t deny the plain reading.

Tigger Boy said:

Do not continue to let the devil deceive you on this very important subject. Pleas give all that I have conveyed to you prayerful consideration. Most likely you are defending your religions teaching on "Death". As you know religions are very diverse on their teaching. They all teach some truths and some error. Each of us should place our faith in God's word should we find our religion teachings are wrong on some issues. Would yor agree?

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Why is it that folks that promote non mainstream doctrines always accuse others as being deceived by the devil? This view is promoted by sects like SDAs, JW’s and Chiristadelphians, of which two reject the Trinity. Soul sleep is not a mainstream teaching for the very simple reason that it is not biblical. I’m going to return your warning to you to consider.

Maria Billingsley said:

Ok. Only God knows the heart.
Thanks for sharing !

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So, do you believe someone can believe Christ was just a prophet, you can sin as much as you want, and Jesus isn't God, and still get to heaven? Because you keep replying with "Only God knows the heart" when scripture has tons of examples of people leading others to hell that is even more nuanced than false doctrine, like the practices the Pharisees were teaching. This is why the road is narrow and few find it because not all beliefs = heaven. Mormons believe you become equal to God, is that not blasphemy? Do people who regularly blaspheme God by that belief go to heaven? I think you need to expand your view point because you're leaving out a lot.

Apple Sky said:

Yes, and the Bible still states the shape of the earth to which Phil G stated that the bible doesn't state the shape of the earth, when it does.

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But don't you see that the context of the words about the clay and the seal is not teaching the shape of the earth, but as the context makes clear, saying that the light that comes with the dawn causes the shape(s) of the earth (mountains, valleys, plains, etc.) to become appear clearly to our sight, whereas in the darkness they were hidden:

12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Mark Quayle said:

—that is, the theology of just what and who God is—

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Which is precisely where Calvinism goes wrong, because the Calvinist view of God is marked with pride. It totally misses the God that humbled Himself to save His enemies, subjecting Himself to a shameful death for the sake of those who had strayed. Calvinism totally misses the God of love, and instead pictures a tyrant who is obsessed with His own "glory".

Lost Witness said:

You do know without the working poor.
There is no middle class..

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I'm referring to the dirt poor. The middle class hasn't had representation in decades. Only the super-rich, and the dirt poor have with our two parties.

...Trump is the closest we've had to someone for the middle class in my lifetime.

Jeffrey Epstein emails: Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew and more
The newly released Epstein documents show the late sex offender called Trump's business practices "dirty" and exchanged emails with Andrew about the allegations against him.

In an email sent to Maxwell in 2011, Epstein said Trump “spent hours” with someone the committee says was a victim. Maxwell is a convicted sex trafficker currently serving a 20-year prison sentence on charges that included conspiring to sex traffic minors in connection with Epstein.

“I want you to realize that that dog that hasn’t barked is trump.. [Victim] spent hours at my house with him ,, he has never once been mentioned,” Epstein wrote.

“I have been thinking about that...” Maxwell replied.

BCP1928 said:

It's time for the Democrats to throw LGBTs under the bus and move forward on substantive issues. I'm sorry for those people but it really won't be any worse for them than back in the 50s and most of them survived that. Strategically, Democrats have to decouple the culture war left from the labor left and get down to business. The labor left is starting to coalesce around the Berniecrat faction; perhaps the best path is to abandon the Democratic Party altogether.

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This issue is not about LGBT or transgender topics, but rather concerns civil rights. The question remains whether every American, regardless of race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation, has equal rights. If equal rights are granted to all, then an individual's sexual orientation should not affect those rights. Currently, discussions about civil rights may receive less attention in the political sphere, while topics related to the LGBTQ community often attract more focus ( for or against) than broader conversations about equality for all Americans.

Similarly Police accountability is generally a widely accepted concept. However, topics such as "defend police" or "abolish police" tend to attract more attention and discussion then talking about accountability.

I think both sides are more interested on the 30 second sound bite then actual policy. As a result they lose majority American.

The Question of the Inversion (Daniel 9:25–26)

Why does the phrasing in Daniel 9:25 appear inverted—saying “weeks sixty and two”—while Daniel 9:26 preserves the more expected order, “after the sixty and two weeks”? This difference is not stylistic but structural. In verse 25, the noun שָׁבֻעִים (shāvuʿim, “weeks”) comes before the numbers, producing an inverted order:

שָׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם shāvuʿim shishim u-shenayim → “Weeks sixty and two.”

In verse 26, the order returns to normal and is introduced by the preposition אַחֲרֵי (’aḥarē, “after”), describing a completed period:

אַחֲרֵי הַשָּׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם ’aḥarē ha-shāvuʿim shishim u-shenayim → “After the sixty and two weeks

The Meaning of the Difference

The inversion in Daniel 9:25 (“weeks sixty and two”) intentionally draws attention to a specific week within the second set of seventy weeks—the second sixtieth week. By placing “weeks” first, the focus shifts from the completed total to the class of weeks itself, highlighting an active prophetic week within that second cycle of 70 weeks.

In contrast, Daniel 9:26 (“after the sixty and two weeks”) uses the normal Hebrew order to describe the completion of the first sixty-two weeks of the first seventy-week cycle, the period that ends with Messiah being “cut off.”

Summary

Verse Hebrew Order Translation Reference Emphasis

Daniel 9:25 שָׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם “Weeks 60 and 2” Second 70-week set Highlights the second 60th week — a specific prophetic event within the latter cycle Daniel 9:26 אַחֲרֵי הַשָּׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם “After the 60 and 2 weeks” First 70-week set Refers to the completed 62-week span ending with Messiah’s cutting off

✅ Key Insight

The Hebrew inversion separates two distinct prophetic frameworks.

Daniel 9:25 — “Weeks 60 and 2” → marks the second 60th week, the focal point of covenant strengthening and transition in the latter seventy-week administration.

Daniel 9:26 — “After the 60 and 2 weeks” → describes the conclusion of the first 62-week period, which ends in Messiah’s rejection.

Thus, the inversion functions as a deliberate prophetic divider: verse 25 isolates an active week within the future cycle, while verse 26 recounts the fulfilled span of the former one.

Back in the 1960s, when I took a class in Abnormal Psychology, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness. That ended when researchers found that homosexuals scored pretty much like everyone else on every inventory of mental illness. Someone should do the research on trans people.
I suspect the results will be different.

Not to beat up on those who are trans, but it might make such a decision possible only for the individual involved after he or she is an adult.

Phil G said:

Then where do they come from? That's what I've been asking. There's no point in saying they don't come from orbiting satellites if you can't give a rational alternative that fits reality. So far you haven't even come close.

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I've told you but you just refuse to believe.

Apple Sky said:

Around a ball yes bot not across a ball.

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The verse about stretching a line actually says (in the KJV which you seem to quote from):

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

No "across" there, is there?

mark46 said:

B) You quote Amazon layoffs as if Amazon is hurting. AI is allowing them to shed workers. Amazon is doing fine. Amazon is forecast to need 600,000 new workers in the next 8 years. OF COURSE, almost all of these jobs will be filled by robots.

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Can you share a source for the 600,000 new workers over next 8 years Amazon forecast?

Delvianna said:

I'm not calvanist as I believe that our beliefs define where we go and although God knows who is his ahead of time since he knows the future, we still have free will to accept, deny or be influenced wrongly. It's the difference between believing in what Christ said will get you to heaven and altering that truth into something false and accepting that. Jehovah's Witnesses are another example due to the fact they believe Christ was created, is separate from the Father, and is of lower class than the Father and is Michael the Archangel. So I can confidently say, "All JW's aren't saved". That's what I mean.

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Ok. Only God knows the heart.
Thanks for sharing !

David Lamb said:

Did you read what Phil G just wrote about the context of Job 38:14?

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Yes, and the Bible still states the shape of the earth to which Phil G stated that the bible doesn't state the shape of the earth, when it does.