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BPPLEE · 2025-11-30T15:43:08-0600

Hans Blaster said:
Everyone knows that Joe Biden was president from 2016 until 3 months before the present date and that will always be so.

???

BasedLutheran · 2025-11-30T15:43:01-0600

Hans Blaster said:
Any more? You've been here for 1 day. So long noob.

Pretty sure I've been on this planet for 45 years, not one day, 'noob'

A Devil's Advocate · 2025-11-30T15:37:40-0600

None of my posts are me telling you what you need to believe. They are me giving you my perspective and the 'why' of that said perspective. This post will be different. This post is me still working out what it is I believe about Hell and the why of it. All based within the context of 'my' understanding of the Gospel. This is something I'm sure will continue to develop over time as I continue to discover more of God.

- I see in scripture two ages. The present age, and the age yet to come. The present age is understood as being only a temporary age. This is made evident by the fact that there is yet a second age to come.

- In this present, but temporary age, life is temporary. If life is temporary, then logically, death must also be temporary. Maybe this is why death is often referred to as sleep?

- The age to come is understood to be everlasting. If this age is everlasting then so must life be also. And if life is everlasting then, likewise, death must also be everlasting.

- At the end of the first age we will all be resurrected, believers and unbelievers alike. Now because I understand being created in the image of God to mean that we have three defining parts; body, soul, and spirit, I believe all three are essential for life. We cannot exist without all three. (With regards to spiritual death, I believe that our spirit has gone into a dormant state. It is not actually diseased) For this reason I am leaning towards the idea that both believers and unbelievers will receive new bodies at the time we are resurrected. And that these new bodies will be free of a sinful nature. Why?

- We will all stand before the full presence of God. Any corruption within us would likely be obliterated in the full presence of God. Just an assumption on my part. And this is only going to compound the coming judgment for an unbeliever.

- A new sinless body will most likely mean a clear understanding of one's purpose within creation. And it is for this very reason why I am coming to this particular conclusion of Hell, and what that may actually look like. (Again, this is still something I'm working out)

- Unbelievers will suddenly have full awareness of their purpose while at the same time recognizing where their rejection has led them. All the while standing in the full presence of God, the very purpose for their existence. At that moment nothing else will matter to them. All they will want and desire is standing right before them. But... with the knowledge they will never have it due to their former rejection.

- You will now have an unbeliever who's only desire is to worship and to be in the presence of God, but unable to carry it out. (there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth).

- I believe, that in the very beginning, man was created with physical death being a natural part of his existence. Hence the tree of life. As small a possibility as this may have been, a third option was always available: man could have not sinned, but also could have not eaten from the tree of life. Inevitably resulting in everlasting death. Extreme, I know, but hear me out.

- In the age to come, man again has access to the tree of life. So logically, death must still be possible, and dare I say, an option. However, highly unlikely a choice anyone would make after experiencing the full presence of God. Still, the option being there would align with God's character just as it would have in the beginning. And it's the reality of the possibility of death that now applies to unbelievers in this new age.

- If you were to stand in the full presence of God and then suddenly be taken out of His presence, any amount of time, out of His presence, would feel like hell to you.

- In the first part of Genesis, man lived upward of a thousand years. If we carry that over into the new age, you now have unbelievers with new bodies capable of living that same amount of time. This would be worse than any hell anyone could ever imagine. To an unbeliever, any amount of time is going to feel like an eternity. (the word 'Eternity' is often used as hyperbole in scripture since only God is truly eternal)

- An unbeliever will eventually face everlasting death. But not until after what felt like an eternity of hell for them. In this scenario, not only is God's justice served (experiencing time outside the presence of God is a sinless state where all you want is to be in His presence), but also His love and grace (He does not leave them there for the rest of eternity).

As I said, this understanding is something I am currently working out. So I do not hold dogmatically to it. If you do not agree but feel it necessary that I know you don't agree, then do me the respect of explaining why you don't agree, as it may help me in my understanding.

In the end does it matter if I/we understand what exactly Hell is? Not at all. But, everyone is different and being able to answer an unbelievers concerns or questions more confidently may be the defining point of whether they choose to believe or not.

joechristianwarrior · 2025-11-30T15:35:12-0600

Christsfreeservant said:
Hate can mean different things depending on the context. We are to prefer God over our families but we are to love all people.

Fair enough point. I mainly share it because it's nonetheless something Jesus actually said, explicitly; and yet it hardly ever gets quoted whenever people discuss how husbands and wives should relate.

another_lost_guy · 2025-11-30T15:32:37-0600

BCP1928 said:
Most people want to have a continuing relationship with a loving partner and dislike the idea of cheating on that relationship. They want to form a household and raise children. They have been doing that all over the world for as long as there have been humans. The details vary from culture to culture but the basic principle is observed everywhere and will continue to be observed whether it is enforced legally or not.

If legality doesn't matter one way or another as you've stated, then you should have no issue supporting the criminalization of adultery.

BCP1928 said:
But my point really was that women get to decide for themselves who they won't go to bed with and when.

No U.S. law ever required a woman to have sex.

NxNW said:
Sounds like you want a theocracy.

Indeed.

BasedLutheran · 2025-11-30T15:31:39-0600

Hans Blaster said:
"Third world" is archaic Cold War language referring to nations not aligned with the US or the USSR. It is out of date by 1/3 of a century. Whatever meaning it had 40 years ago is gone. Use words that still have meaning.

Yeah no one cares about language policing anymore, sorry bud

another_lost_guy · 2025-11-30T15:28:05-0600

Hans Blaster said:
That isn't science, it is delusion, and I dont' think even the world centers on my country. I, personally, am mostly interested in the current events and politics of my own country as it takes too much time to track everything everywhere. I have also some lesser focused interests in a few other countries, but Christians are oppressed in any of those either.

Moving the goalposts

Hans Blaster said:
Mass shooters have particularly disordered minds and their "manifestos" (when written and available) are messy jumbles of things from which it is difficult to find any organizing principle or motive.

So, again, why even ask the question if this was always your position

Hans Blaster said:
My original inquiry arose from Steve's claim that Christians were being murdered *for believing* and when I asked him to give an example, he did -- Charlie Kirk. (Steve is usually good about answering such inquiries, which is part of why I engage him in conversation.) I already stated my disagreement with the assessment that Kirk was killed for *his belief in God*, rather than for other things. You could engage with that disagreement if you like, instead you inject school shootings, most of which are perpetrated by current or former students.

You couldn't have possibly known he'd answer that way and even if you did it doesn't stop the fact that there are Christians being killed for being Christian so again another pointless interjection

Hans Blaster said:
Sure I did. I mistook this as a thread in American politics where I often post. I was not dissuaded from that notion as all posts above mine were full of references to US history and politics. [If you see the "path" at the top of the page you can use that to navigate the site. Clicking on the "Politics" will take you to the page containing all of the politics sub-fora (including this one and the US politics one). In the entry for each forum there is on the right side a link for the latest post in each forum. If you go up one more level you will see a single entry of all of politics (next to other links to the science forum, the current events forum, etc.) and the same entry for the most recent post in all of the politics section. I likely saw this thread there and clicked on it out of curiosity not realizing it was post to "general politics" rather than "US politics". It is the same way I end up in threads started by people on my "ignore list".

Irrelevant

Hans Blaster said:
I read nearly all threads in P&LS and reply to many of them.

Also irrelevant

Hans Blaster said:
And if you knew anything about the subject you would know that there is no such thing as a biological race in humans. It is all social construct.

Totally false given the fact that melanin is not a social construct, bone density is not a social construct, etc;

Hans Blaster said:
And you are but a youth. They key is to argue the points, not the man, or your perceptions of him based on a few simplistic labels.

I refuse to ignore the irony of using age to condescend to me while you repeatedly make typos. Do not fight this battle. The youth long for God, order, and structure. You are 55, the time for intellectual pretentiousness like this is over.

Hans Blaster said:
I mock the notion that the "sexual revolution" is an actual revolution. No governments were overthrown. It was a social movement.

More moving the goalposts to suit your argument. Awfully convenient for you to redefine this arbitrarily when you never mentioned it in the original reply

Hans Blaster said:
As I've written a few times, I was never discussing persecution of Christians outside the US. I am well aware that Islamic countries exist. I have been steady in limiting my discussion to the US (or more broadly "the West") where the notion of "Christian persecution" is laughable.

Again. Moving. Goalposts.

Dave... · 2025-11-30T15:22:39-0600

Dan Perez said:
# A And the apostle Paul is telling us that believers are CHOSEN // ELECTED , before Christ made the WORLD. and no their GOSPEL

Hey Dan.

I believe the the one important thing that is often overlooked in Ephesians 1:4 and context is that we are chosen "in Him", and always "In Christ". --Vs. 10 is speaking of the Spirit baptism which began at Pentecost (1 Cor. 12:13). Vs. 11 is speaking of true OT believers already declared righteous by OT faith (Romans 8:29) who came to faith in Jesus.

It is Jesus who was elect from the foundations of the world. Anyone who is placed 'in Him', becomes elect with Him. Thus, "In Him" we receive all these things spoken about in Ephesians 1. This has been God's plan from the [foundations of the world], thus the 'Lamb slain from the foundations of the world' is speaking about an eternal decree, but it still had to actually happen before it applied.

We are all placed into Christ with the NT indwelling, called the placing into, or, baptism with the Holy Spirit, that was made available to everyone after Christ was lifted up. Today, when someone believes and trusts in Christ Jesus in faith, Jesus places the Holy Spirit in us, making us one with Him (the baptism into the Body, into Christ), as a result, being born again and justified. This is all initiated by faith.

For your convenience, I quoted it.

1-14 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined (Romans 8:29) according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Dave

Unqualified · 2025-11-30T15:18:58-0600

Welcome to the forum @BasedLutheran !

Dreyma · 2025-11-30T15:10:29-0600

I finished reading A Separate Peace today. While reading it, I learned about something called a "Section Eight discharge." Here's what the character in the book says about it:

A Section Eight discharge is for the nuts in the service, the psychos, the Funny Farm candidates. Now do you know what I'm talking about? They give you a Section Eight discharge, like a dishonorable discharge only worse. You can't get a job after that. Everybody wants to see your discharge, and when they see a Section Eight they look at you kind of funny—the kind of expression you've got on your face, like you were looking at someone with their nose blown off but don't want them to know you're disgusted—they look at you that way and then they say, 'Well, there doesn't seem to be an opening here at present.' You're screwed for life, that's what a Section Eight discharge means.

Sounds awful. Thankfully, it's no longer used. Here's some information from Wikipedia:

Section 8 was a category of military discharge employed by the United States Armed Forces which was used for service members judged mentally unfit for service. The term "Section 8" eventually came to mean any service member given such a discharge, or behaving as if deserving such a discharge, as in the expression, "he's a Section 8".

This type of discharge could be granted for a wide variety of perceived problems, including low intelligence, incompatibility with core military expectations or responsibilities, alcoholism or other chronic addictions, pathological lying, psychopathy, personality disorders, enuresis (then believed to be a mental disorder), psychosis, or antisocial behavior. A variety of sexual conduct could result in a Section 8 discharge, including cross-dressing, homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality and transgenderism; along with necrophilia, bestiality and pederasty.

Discharge under Section 8 is no longer practiced, as medical discharges for psychological or psychiatric reasons are now covered by a number of regulations. In the Army, such discharges are handled under the provisions of AR 635–200, Active Duty Enlisted Administrative Separations. Chapter 5, paragraph 13 governs the separation of personnel medically diagnosed with a personality disorder.

The Wikipedia page even mentions the character from A Separate Peace in its pop culture section:

In the 1959 war novel A Separate Peace, the character Elwin "Leper" Lepellier gets a Section 8 discharge from the ski troops because he was hallucinating due to sleep deprivation.

PloverWing · 2025-11-30T15:06:33-0600

BCP1928 said:
I think that's Steve's (and MAGA's) working definition.

Quite possibly. But as a Christian who is neither socially conservative nor politically conservative, I dissent.

Neostarwcc · 2025-11-30T15:05:57-0600

Michie said:
So sorry for your loss. Prayers for peace and comfort for all those who knew and loved him.

Thank you Michie. Jeanette says she appreciates it. How've you been?

Neostarwcc · 2025-11-30T15:05:14-0600

FreeinChrist said:
Praying for you and your wife and family.

My father had a stroke and passed away 10 years ago and I still miss him.

Im sorry to hear that. My grandfather had two strokes that crippled him and he was stuck in a nursing home for the rest of his life barely knowing who he wa s or what was going on. It was quite sad. When he passed it was quite sudden too. Closest I can come to what my wife is going through. Im trying to be there for her as much as I can.

So the funeral might be close to the end of this week. I might not be able to attend because ive got a nucala injection that my mom can take me to. I have eosinophilic (type 2) asthma and have been suffering for several months so I cant delay the injection for this its even been effecting my breathing at night so I need the injection ASAP. So... unfortunately I might not be able to go. We will see when her mom schedules the funeral for.

prodromos · 2025-11-30T14:58:20-0600

Apple Sky said:
@David Lamb @Strong in Him @prodromos & to who ever it may concern.

It was really nice getting to know you guys, you are really all so great but I am really ill (+ no it's not dementia) so I've decided to quit this thread and the forum for a while.

I may be back if I get any better so bye for now

May God bless you all

Rest, and get well. Don't waste time on foolish pursuits.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T14:57:26-0600

chevyontheriver said:
I'm hoping on Elijah. I suspect the HURD has been complete in heaven for a long time, and the Liturgist will be delighted.

No, I’d be annoyed, because its complete enough for my purposes, and there are several other OSes presently incomplete I’d rather use, like Haiku…

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T14:56:05-0600

chevyontheriver said:
The HURD is a kernel system where one may update the kernel without a restart.

Parts of it, anyway. There are several microkernels in production, like Mach and QNX (which I work with in the embedded space).

By the way, a monolithic kernel with modules gives you most of the benefits of a microkernel but with less context switching. The reason why Hurd took a while is really because Linux was light, inherently faster on 90s commodity PC hardware, for which it was written (GNU Hurd was targeting midrange computers with multiple RISC CPUs, not unlike Solaris or AIX or IRIX). Since Linux was good enough, and had a more open development environment, there just wasn’t enough interest at the time.

But now, GNU Hurd is definitely usable and worth playing with.

JulieB67 · 2025-11-30T14:54:32-0600

Paulwat said:
Nothing in the text condemns loving LGBT relationships

Leviticus as well as the Romans text condems the sin.

Also, in the NT Jude stated that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was like minded with what the angels did in that they both went after "strange" flesh. That was the sin. You can't state that is taken out of context. If so, explain the Jude texts.

Paulwat said:
Also, what reason would God have for hating LGBT people?

Who stated he hated them? I know people hate to hear it, but the sin is an abomination to him. You bring up same sex loving relationships but it still boils down to their sexual activity which is still an abomination to God. To state otherwise would be untrue to God's Word. Again, why should someone's sexuality be risen above God's will in our lives? That's of the flesh, not of the spirit. You're thinking too carnally.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T14:50:07-0600

Bob Crowley said:
Meanwhile what is the Liturgist going to do all day with no computers in heaven?

Liturgize. No computer can compare with the Divine Liturgy or the Traditional Latin Mass, and these are a foretaste of heaven.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-30T14:49:59-0600

BasedLutheran said:
They did. Try taking responsibility for yourselves. There's a reason most of these places are ####holes, and it isn't because they were colonies who had their vities, transportation systems, utilities, etc. built for them by first world countries. It's because they don't know how to build and innovate, all their cultures are capable of is patching and repairing what was given to them.

I can see you haven't been anywhere in the third world yourself recently.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-30T14:47:26-0600

rjs330 said:
I most certainly am strict on male and female. There are only two sexes. No more, no less. A male cannot be a female and a female cannot be a male.

But within that dichotomy are almost infinite personalities. Almost infinite likes and dislikes, ways of dealing with emotions, work and leisure preferences, clothing preferences etc. etc. But you are still a man or still a woman within those things. There is no line a personality crosses that determines they are the opposite sex/gender.

There are male and female traits that are typically associated with each sex/gender But even those things are not owned by that sex/gender. Thats why one cannot actually be the opposite sex/gender.

A man cannot be a woman inside.

Those statements seem contradictory, but OK. I guess I understand how you feel about pronouns. The thing is, I don't mind doing it if the person him/herself asks me to. I certainly would not do it if I was ordered to by a third party, especially by some prissy twit from HR--where most of this kind of thing comes from. Fortunately I don't have to, one of the benefits of working on the shop floor rather than in an office.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T14:47:05-0600

DamianWarS said:
ChatGPT usually agrees with me often praising my focus. AI is very agreeable and if you frame a question that presupposes an idea AI will happily be your echo chamber. It's there to trigger happy responses so you keep coming back.

This is true - to get more objective results you have to specify you want objectivity and ask an objective question where the answer is not A vs B but rather a distribution of probabilities, such as A = 0.3, B = 0.7, and also explicitly exclude data you don’t want it to consider. The question posed by the OP might seem straightforward to a human but to an LLM it is spectacularly ambiguous.

People need to understand AIs are computers using very beautiful neural networks to perform generative predictive transformations based on training data in response to human language, not a magical fusion of the best of von Neumann-type Turing-complete computers with human-like cognition and creativity. We are not yet at the level of Mr. Data or even HAL-9000.

For example, at present, AIs don’t literally understand in the human sense of the word, because they lack qualia, although some models are capable of reasoning (most operate by simple pattern matching, because its faster).

BasedLutheran · 2025-11-30T14:44:44-0600

BCP1928 said:
Otherwise people might begin to realize who dug the holes.

They did. Try taking responsibility for yourselves. There's a reason most of these places are ####holes, and it isn't because they were colonies who had their vities, transportation systems, utilities, etc. built for them by first world countries. It's because they don't know how to build and innovate, all their cultures are capable of is patching and repairing what was given to them.

keras · 2025-11-30T14:41:15-0600

Douggg said:
verse 9 - not appointed to wrath
verse 10 - avoidance of God' wrath poured out during the great tribulation by the resurrection/rapture event.

The insertion of a 'resurrection/rapture event', is entirely an addition to scripture. Perhaps one interpretation, if only there was other scriptural support it. But there isn't.
Matthew 28:19-20 is the definitive scriptural proof of how we must remain on earth until Jesus Returns.

The Liturgist · 2025-11-30T14:39:13-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
I have found it to be very helpful on several things.

I’m not denying that it is useful.

SabbathBlessings said:
Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

Its not a question of belief but of fact. I am a prompt engineer - I have programmed chatGPT to engage in a number of novel behaviors, such as using dimorphic cygnomimetic trait exchange as a means of engendering interesting emergent behaviors, such as harmonized coordinated output between custom GPTs, consistent multigenerational anrhropomimetic identity transmission, and other capabilities relating to personality stability and custom GPT generation.

There are problem domains such as pattern recognition where LLMs are extremely reliable. This is not one of them. That’s not an opinion, nor even a considered opinion, but the consensus of the prompt engineering community.

SabbathBlessings said:
The only instruction I gave AI on this subject was to use the Bible only. I never used AI for anything Biblical related at this point so it had no idea my own views.

We would still need to see a complete prompt history and also the contents of global memory (if enabled) because as of now I am getting contrary beliefs.

CoreyD · 2025-11-30T14:35:52-0600

Job 33:6 said:
It refers to Hosea 11:1, but Hosea 11:1 is not about Jesus, it's about the exodus of the Israelites.

Some people may read the text, and think as you do, but reading the Bible, in a superficial manner, will not help persons to understand what they are reading.
Some things are deep, and require careful study, but also of great importance, texts need to be understood in harmony with the rest of the scriptures.
Why? The Bible on a whole explains itself.

We'll get more if we dive in, rather than standing out here staring at the surface. So let's dive.
Hold your breath.

...but open your eyes.

Hosea was written about 740 B.C.E... 773 years later than the exodus.
Hosea was a prophet of God making prophetic utterances concerning the future of God's people.
God's people are not the natural nation of Israel. This would take several scriptures, but read from Hosea 1 through to Hosea 14... actually do more than read it. Study it. Here are just a few scriptures to start you off: Hosea 1:2-11; Romans 9:6, 25, 26; 1 Peter 2:10; Matthew 21:43
All the prophetic utterances, by the prophets (Hosea; Joel; Amos; Jeremiah; Isaiah; Ezekiel...) relate to future Israel... that is, the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16 Note please... I did not say these utterances did not apply in some way to ancient Israel. Prophetic utterances often had an initial and future fulfillment. They were two-fold. Mark 1:2; John 12:37-41; Romans 10:20;
Matthew quoted Hosea in reference to Jesus the Messiah, so Hosea 11:1 does refer to Jesus, as well as Israel, when they were in captivity to Egypt.

I quite understand if you don't get this J, but we aren't going to quarrel about it.

Job 33:6 said:
God did create the formless earth ex nihilo. But that's not what Genesis is about. Genesis is a different story. Genesis is the story in which God creates by doing things like separating waters, gathering waters, establishing roles and functions etc. Genesis is not about ex nihilo creation.

Let's forget about the "ex nihilo" insertion.
God did create the formless earth, and Genesis is about God creating the heavens and the earth, according to Genesis 1:1.

So, I say, "I created pizza. It was formless and empty. I prepared some tomato sauce, and spread on it. I prepared some vegetables, and put on it. I grated my onion and garlic, and sprinkled on it. I put my meats and finally shredded some cheese, and sprinkled on top. Then I put her in the oven."

Are you going to clip off my first two sentences, and say I am not describing creating the actually pizza, but only putting on the dressing?
That's exactly what you have done with God's word, by separating the first two verses, and calling them a summary
This is why we are having this disagreement, and create has become warped, because you are excluding the creation of the earth, which Genes includes.

Job 33:6 said:
In Genesis, before the earth was filled with life, it was bohu, or empty. Before the waters were gathered to reveal the earth, it was tohu or formless and uncreated.

The earth was uncreated now?
The Bible does not say that. Are you adding to and changing up what the Bible says?
Be careful. God is paying attention. You don't want to be messing with his word like that. He does not take it lightly. 2 Peter 3:16.

You have repeatedly said...
The earth was formless. The earth was not non-existent.
Genesis says that the earth was formless. It does not say that the earth didn't exist at all.
It doesn't say that the earth didn't exist yet. It says that the earth was formless or in a chaotic state

So, let me know when you make up your mind because something cannot exist, and at the same time be uncreated... except God.
To say that is to say something is created and yet uncreated. Which defies logic.
It also does not show reasonableness, or a sincere desire to reason.
It's more like a case of doing anything it takes to be right... even if wrong.

I let God deal with those. I don't want to deal with that.

Job 33:6 said:
Isaiah 45:1, 15.
But now, this is what the Lord says—
he who created you, Jacob,
he who formed you, Israel:
“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

in the ships in which they took pride.
15 I am the Lord, your Holy One,
Israel’s Creator, your King.”

God creates Jacob and Israel, yet neither were created ex nihilo, at least not in any material way. Jacob was born of his mother, he didnt appear out of thin air. So when God says that He created Jacob, it's not talking about matter appearing out of nothing. Jacob is already there.

Why exactly are you so hung up on 'ex nihilo' again?
Can you explain that to me, please?
The point is, Jacob and Israel did not exist before God created it. That is the point.
The earth existed before God separated the waters, so the earth was already created. That is the point.

You did not answer my questions.
Can you do so now, please.

If the earth did not have humans, is it a created earth?
Take away the animals along with humans. Is it a created earth?
Take every green thing off of it... that would be, every plant, along with the animals and humans. Is it a created earth?
Drain the water off of it, and collapse every hill and mountain. Is it a created earth?

What exactly do you think the earth is?

Job 33:6 said:
Materially, it did. It is not as though God snapped his fingers and buildings appeared out of thin air. The matter was already there.

You are saying that the bark of a tree is a house?
No. That's ridiculous J. The existing ingredients which you make your pizza from, is not your pizza.
Your pizza, is not the flour in the bag you brought from the Supermarket, along with the onions, and other vegetables and stuff.
Your pizza does not exist until you make it.
Only then does it exist.

You know this, J.

Job 33:6 said:
Materially, we do. Your human body did not appear out of nothing. You were born from your mother, formed out of matter that already exists.

Your mother existed J, but that doesn't mean you existed, because she exists.
If she never got pregnant, would you exist?

You only began to exist... how old are you? Count backwards and add 9 month, and that is when you existed.
What matter made you, J?

Job 33:6 said:
When God created Adam, Adam didn't appear out of nothing; he was made from dust of the ground.

So, Adam was the dust?

Job 33:6 said:
Materially, he did; he did not appear out of thin air, nor did the weapons he forged. He made his tools using matter that already existed.

I'm done.

Job 33:6 said:
Materially, the sign was already there. Ezekiel didn't make physical matter appear out of nothing. Ezekiel is not God, he cannot make matter appear out of nothing.

Finito.

Job 33:6 said:
When God creates the earth, the material, just like in every other instance in which God creates in the Old Testament, is already there. There is no material matter appearing out of nothing.

Already said that God used energy.
The ex nihilo business has taken its toll.

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