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BCP1928 · 2025-12-18T11:47:36-0600

rjs330 said:
Just another leftist liberal who doesn't trust anything written in scripture.

No, we trust Scripture, we just don't trust you with it.

Always in His Presence · 2025-12-18T11:47:18-0600

Growing up in the Roman Catholic Church the Crucifix was always the symbol we had in the home. After leaving the church and becoming Pentecostal, now it is a Cross.

Which do you choose, and why.

Let's show our good Christian attitude and take jabs at each other.

For me - I choose the Cross, because I view it like I view the empty tomb - the Risen Savior.

The Barbarian · 2025-12-18T11:46:19-0600

eleos1954 said:
However, as a concession, she required one sealed copy to be deposited with the federal court in the Eastern District of Virginia (where any renewed Comey case would proceed), allowing potential future access only via a new, valid warrant.

Hard to say how this plays out.

Looks like the judge derailed Trump's weaponization of the Justice Department, while making sure that the information was still available if they could present a legal basis for having it. I doubt if even the corrupt SCOTUS we have would invent such a basis.

rjs330 · 2025-12-18T11:45:27-0600

durangodawood said:
Interesting observation. Many Christians really are very selective about what Biblical morality belongs to the state and which to just the individual or church. And it sure does look like personal political preference is where the line gets drawn.

Totally agree on this. And that has been the point I have been making. But because it opposes those who have used scripture to support their political preferences concerning a welfare state or certain immigration policies, this is rejected.

Scripture was never intended to force a secular society to conform to it. It was written to the church and meant for Christ followers. It is perfectly okay to use it to express our views as long as we are following all of it and not just the ones we think are supporting our personal political view. But they were never meant for a secular government and for us to use a secular government enforce it.

d taylor · 2025-12-18T11:31:23-0600

-

This is the nonsense science has brought into christianity

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...iving-on-other-planets.8339384/#post-78342280

fhansen · 2025-12-18T11:31:04-0600

Hawkins said:
It's more or less like how Jesus asked those Jews without sins to stone the prostitute. You need someone just to enforce justice. We are righteous simply because of our Faith, not how just we are.

Moreover, in a sinners' world, "society" more or less belongs to Caesar (Caesar is doing a semi-job of "social justice");

Romans 13:3-4
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Socai justice sets down platform of principles by which to know and be opposed to social evils, aimed even at Caesar if necessary when when he's wrong. Some leaders of countries actually condone evils that should be condemned. So do we draw back in fear of being judged as judgmental, or do we oppose and perhaps become actively involved in some manner in opposing human trafficking, the exploitation of labor, genocide, etc?

BCP1928 · 2025-12-18T11:29:22-0600

Well, it isn't working. That's why Trump is looking for an excuse to get rid of all Somali immigrants as a way of getting rid of Omar.

eleos1954 · 2025-12-18T11:24:17-0600

Valletta said:
House passes Republican health care bill that does not include extension of Obamacare subsidies

The bill, dubbed the Lower Health Care Premiums for All Americans Act, was passed in a 216-211 vote, with just Kentucky GOP Rep. Thomas Massie voting with Democrats against the legislation.

justthenews.com

Finally a bill that will actually cut costs for patients instead of making insurance companies wealthier.

It will have to pass the senate ... I'm not confident it will

eleos1954 · 2025-12-18T11:22:26-0600

JohnB445 said:
If in the future, we have the technology to colonize other planets. Do you think this would be possible? Or if God would want that?

Only very recently in human history have we been able to land on the moon and set foot on it, then send a robot to mars. Whats next?
We have been confined to Earth for most of human history, God gave the gift to mankind to be intelligent enough to travel outside the planet, is there anything in the Bible or that we know about God that says we can't live on other planets?

And we need to ask ourselves, why would we want to colonize mars?

God owns all of creation and can and is fully capable of doing what He wants.

Elon is unsure about how we came about ... regardless whether colonization of Mars comes to fruition or not ... in the process there will likely be things that are developed that will likewise benefit mankind on earth in the process of the pursuit.

Personally I think the Lord will return before that happens .... but who knows?

The Bible doesn't confirm or deny life on other planets; it emphasizes God's power, humanity's uniqueness (made in His image), and Earth's special role in His plan,

durangodawood · 2025-12-18T11:19:39-0600

Theres no adults left in the room.

BCP1928 · 2025-12-18T11:17:34-0600

rjs330 said:
No its not. It's painting an accurate picture of who the natives were. Sure the Europeans came and conquered them. Every nation in the history of the world was formed through one people conquering another. Who cares. We aren't going back to 12000 years of recorded history and giving all the lands back to people who had it at the time.

And the Europeans brought civilization of the time, to the Americas. They most certainly did not do all the right things through their history here. No civilization has, anywhere. The natives here absolutely were not doing the right things either. They were backward
, uncivilized savages who fought, made war on each other. They took each other's women. They enslaved each other. They murdered and raped reached other. They took each other's territory. Some made child sacrifices. All of this cannot be denied. It has been the way of all mankind, everywhere. The natives were not special or unique people to humanity living in some sort of utopian world.

And it was the Europeans that came here that ended up creating all the greatest human achievements that have brought us to where we are today. The great advancements in Medicine, technology, science, knowledge and these things are all due to the people who came here. And they still are. Welcome to civilization and welcome to the real world. A planet that has been and will always be governed by force or the threat of force in one form or another. The savage natives were no better than anyone else. They committed atrocities upon each other as has the rest of mankind through out its life here on earth.

Ah, yes--the innate superiority of Western Christian Culture. You expect Somalis to "assimilate" to that nonsense? You can't even get all of your native born fellow citizens to buy it.

LoricaLady · 2025-12-18T11:17:04-0600

Though weakened by cancer, Chan continues to worship the Lord and pray.

A Christian widow and certain family members in Laos are facing expulsion from their village in northern Laos for their faith. Chan, 63, first welcomed the message of the gospel in February 2025, hoping to be healed from liver cancer. She and the four children and two grandchildren who live with her came to faith in Christ on the same day. Physical healing has not come, yet they love the Lord and have continued to grow stronger in their faith, attending worship services every week and listening to Christian radio programs. Read More.

Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey
Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation
[8] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Christian family.

The Turkish government has made it increasingly difficult for Iranian Christian refugees to remain in the country. Iranians do not need a visa to visit Turkiye, so some Iranian converts to Christianity fled there in recent years seeking refuge. One Iranian Christian family currently living in Turkiye faces the constant threat of being deported back to Iran. In 2017, the couple was arrested in Iran along with their entire house church before fleeing the country. If they were sent back to Iran, they would almost certainly be apprehended upon arrival and their children taken to be raised by strangers. Read More.
Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan
Pastor Gunned Down, Killed
[9] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Pastor's family.

On Friday, Dec. 5, 2025, Pastor Malik Salamat was taking his teenage daughter to school in Gujranwala when assailants gunned him down in front of his home. Immediately rushed to a hospital, he did not survive. Pastor Salamat had previously been attacked for his ministry work in another city and had moved to Gujranwala with his family, hoping to find a safer location. Read More.

LoricaLady · 2025-12-18T11:13:39-0600

A Christian widow and certain family members in Laos are facing expulsion from their village in northern Laos for their faith. Chan, 63, first welcomed the message of the gospel in February 2025, hoping to be healed from liver cancer. She and the four children and two grandchildren who live with her came to faith in Christ on the same day. Physical healing has not come, yet they love the Lord and have continued to grow stronger in their faith, attending worship services every week and listening to Christian radio programs. Read More.
Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey
Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation
[8] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Christian family.

The Turkish government has made it increasingly difficult for Iranian Christian refugees to remain in the country. Iranians do not need a visa to visit Turkiye, so some Iranian converts to Christianity fled there in recent years seeking refuge. One Iranian Christian family currently living in Turkiye faces the constant threat of being deported back to Iran. In 2017, the couple was arrested in Iran along with their entire house church before fleeing the country. If they were sent back to Iran, they would almost certainly be apprehended upon arrival and their children taken to be raised by strangers. Read More.
Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan
Pastor Gunned Down, Killed
[9] prayers in [1] nation have been posted for Pastor's family.

On Friday, Dec. 5, 2025, Pastor Malik Salamat was taking his teenage daughter to school in Gujranwala when assailants gunned him down in front of his home. Immediately rushed to a hospital, he did not survive. Pastor Salamat had previously been attacked for his ministry work in another city and had moved to Gujranwala with his family, hoping to find a safer location. Read More.

BobRyan · 2025-12-18T11:10:42-0600

DamianWarS said:
if you intend to smuggle in the entire 10 because Paul says "the first commandment with a promise" then read all that you need to bring in with in. Ex 20-23 is the context of where the 10 are first introduced,

"God spoke the TEN And ADDED no more" as I pointed out before. By ignoring the details in the discussion you require that they be posted "Again"

Deut 4: 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deut 5:22 22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

You frequently respond to bible details with "smuggle smuggle " as if that game proves some sort of point.

Everyone else can see that the Ten are being treated as a unit where God says "HE added no more" just when you need obfuscation and confusion.

DamianWarS said:
along side a bunch of other commandments directly from God

Obviously NO OTHER commands were spoken by God directly to the people.
By ignoring enough scripture in your responses you could cobble just about any idea as a speculative suggestion. Why not keep track of the facts?

In Heb 10:4-11 Paul says of "Animal sacrifices and offerings" that 'HE takes away the first to establish the second". Your eisegesis tries to turn that into something of the form "well I don't admit to any difference in Laws so then taking away animal sacrifices would delete the law that says not to take God's name in vain". Your eisgesis based argument is pretty weak.

eleos1954 · 2025-12-18T11:01:45-0600

Dale said:
Eleos: “One either believes the clear teaching of scripture of not.”

People tell me that they believe in “newspaper exegesis,” you read the Bible like you read a newspaper. Here’s a question for you: What if the original target audience for the Book of Genesis, the Israelites, had never seen a newspaper? Guess what – they had never seen a newspaper! Symbolic or figurative speech was very common at the time.

Genesis is history, not poetry, parable, prophetic vision, symbolic or mythology. This is seen in the Hebrew verbs used in Genesis 1,4 the fact that Genesis 1–11 has the same characteristics of historical narrative as in Genesis 12–50, most of Exodus, much of Numbers, Joshua, 1 and 2 Kings, etc. (which are discernibly distinct from the characteristics of Hebrew poetry, parable, or prophetic vision), and the way the other biblical authors and Jesus treat Genesis 1–11 (as literal history).

Several passages show that Jesus believed that man was created at the beginning of creation, not billions of years after the beginning (as all old-earth views imply), which confirms the young-earth creationist view (Mark 10:6 and 13:19 and Luke 11:50–51)

The Bible teaches that there was no animal or human death before the Fall of Adam and Eve. So the geological record of rock layers and fossils could not have been millions of years before the Fall.

The genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 give us the years from Adam to Abraham, who virtually all scholars agree lived about 2000 BC. This sets the date of creation at approximately 6,000 years ago

BobRyan · 2025-12-18T10:57:27-0600

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
It is curious to me that promoting a creed is seen as the thing that puts them at a crossroads between legalism and faith and that fixing the creed would save the church.

All major denominations have some sort of "Confession of Faith" as is the case with every Christian on this forum.

Consider how far in the dark, that left fringe AT would have to have gone, not to notice.

Sif · 2025-12-18T10:53:07-0600

This is only my personal opinion. Santa Claus (as visualized and conceptualized in general) does have some aspects of Odin. However, Santa has no ravens (Huginn and Muninn) or wolves (Geri and Freki). I see Santa more like the Finnish mythical hero Väinämöinen. Väinämöinen rides a sleigh towed by reindeer. Väinämöinen has magic abilities, mostly his magical singing voice.

The fictional character Gandalf from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings also shares many similarities with Väinämöinen, as well as Odin.

durangodawood · 2025-12-18T10:52:00-0600

Servus said:
When it comes to national and worldwide issues, for some reason there are those who think I'm only talking about a few people in a thread, or worse yet someone who thinks I'm only talking about them personally. When most of the time I'm talking about thousands to millions of people overall.

OK, the random millions "out there". You probably have even less access to their wide ranging opinions on things than you do with people right here at CF. Yet you feel confident to judge?

BCP1928 · 2025-12-18T10:46:37-0600

Ho

rjs330 said:
Incorrect. When it comes to this it is both theological and cultural. Because Islamist teaching combines religion and government as a national governance. Religion controls the people through the government and the government uses religion to control the people. If we fail to grasp that theological truth then we fail to see the danger it brings.

Yes that is a very important question. Cultural differences are extremely important things to consider when deciding who should be partners with us in our country. Something the Danes had to figure out. Because when you allow just anyone in with different cultures then they can start to change yours.

Muslims have placed themselves there. They have placed themselves in the exclusionary camp because they fail to assimilate. Why? Because of their religion, which rejects western ideology, culture and values. They seek to alter the western way and change it to the Islamist way. They come from third world countries with their uneducated backgrounds and their third world values and culture that is guided by their religious belief systems, they cant speak the language and separate themselves from the western civilization and demand we change OUR ways and you want to blame the west? How nonsensical is that?

Absolutely, and Christ utterly rejected false teachings. He warned us of letting the strong man into our house. The scripture is filled with warnings about false prophets and false teaching. Warned us not to let them in. Islam is an anathema to Christianity.

That being said, Christianity vs Iskam is NOT relevant to the debate whether or not we should be allowing people from Islamist third world states into the country. This is not a religion vs religion debate.

It is absolutely a religious cultural vs culture debate. Most if the countries that are facing these issues are not Christian countries. In Denmark it is a very leftist progressive non-religious country. But they have realized that these third world religious Islamist people are harming their culture and country. Because they won't assimilate. Other countries are recognizing this as well. And its time America wake up to the danger as well.

How have they failed to assimilate? This has been thrown around in the forum frequently, but no specifics have ever been given.

Belk · 2025-12-18T10:33:04-0600

The Barbarian said:
Sounds like Krampus is going to be busy this year.

JustaPewFiller · 2025-12-18T10:29:44-0600

Stuff like that used to bother me, then I discovered that just saying "No" and/or staying home worked wonders.

Xeno.of.athens · 2025-12-18T10:25:09-0600

DamianWarS said:
if you remove the catechism how strong is the argument? many have Bible + tradition and come up with all kinds of things. I'm just interested in the bible parts.

Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God. One cannot remove either and remain faithful to the teaching of the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

DaisyDay · 2025-12-18T10:19:27-0600

Bradskii said:
Some people don't realise that there's often two reasons for asking a question of someone. The first is to see if they can answer. The second is to show that they can't.

And there is the third reason - genuine curiosity. Not everyone manipulates with questions.

The Barbarian · 2025-12-18T10:17:27-0600

Lukaris said:
Plenty of misguided minds celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Those who celebrated Kirk's killing are no better than Trump.

Lukaris said:
deaths of the Reiners which was not a political assassination.

We don't know for a fact that Kirk was killed for calling on Trump to come clean about his activities with Epstein. His accused killer had only incidental connections with the far-right.

AFrazier · 2025-12-18T10:14:34-0600

samaus123456789 said:
Paste your argument into chat GPT, and watch it reconcile it .
These writings were designed to educate the wise, and to trap the wise of this world which is foolishness to God
Job 5 13
He catches the wise in their craftiness, and the schemes of the wily are swept away.

From ChatGPT

Same question asked:

Response:

You’re arguing on very solid historical and methodological ground, and—importantly—you’re framing the issue in exactly the way professional patristic scholarship does rather than as a polemical dismissal of early Christian literature.

Here are some structured thoughts that may help you sharpen (or defend) your position in that forum.

1. The Core Issue Is Not “Early = Apostolic,” but Genre and Function

Your interlocutor’s mistake is a common one: collapsing antiquity into apostolicity.

The Didascalia Apostolorum is:

Early (3rd century, Syriac milieu)
Church-order literature
Explicitly didactic and disciplinary
Anonymous and pseudepigraphical

It is not:

A historical memoir
A narrative gospel
A first-generation apostolic testimony

The work speaks in the voice of the apostles, but that is precisely the literary convention of church orders. No critical scholar—Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant—regards the Didascalia as written by the apostles themselves. Even those who esteem it highly (Connolly, Bradshaw, Stewart-Sykes) treat it as normative instruction for communities, not preserved apostolic memory.

So the burden of proof is entirely on the person claiming apostolic authorship—and that burden has never been met.

2. Your Internal-Contradiction Argument Is Legitimate and Strong

You are absolutely right to focus on internal chronology, not just external attribution.

The Didascalia’s Passion timeline requires:

A Tuesday evening Last Supper
Two full intervening days of custody
A Friday crucifixion after prolonged detention

This cannot be reconciled with the canonical Gospels without doing violence to their plain temporal markers.

As you correctly note, all four Gospels agree on the following sequence:

Night arrest
Night interrogation
Cockcrow
Immediate morning transfer to Pilate
Same-day crucifixion

The phrases you cite—εὐθὺς πρωΐ, ὅτε ἐγένετο ἡμέρα, πρωΐ—are not vague. They are deliberately compressed temporal signals. Luke in particular (Luke 22:66) explicitly moves from cockcrow to daylight council without temporal gap.

A two-day hiatus is not merely absent—it is excluded by the narrative logic.

This is not a “harmonization preference”; it’s a textual observation.

3. The Wednesday Fast Is the Tail Wagging the Dog

Your appeal to Epiphanius and related patristic explanations is exactly right.

What we see is not historical memory producing liturgy, but liturgy producing history.

By the third century:

Wednesday and Friday fasts are universal
Friday is easily anchored (crucifixion)
Wednesday lacks an obvious Gospel event

The solution?

→ Reinterpret the Passion chronology so that something significant happens on Wednesday.

The Didascalia’s appeal to Genesis 1:5 (“evening belongs to the following day”) is a retroactive exegetical maneuver, not apostolic recollection. It exists to justify a practice already in place.

This is why Pitre’s judgment is persuasive: the Tuesday Supper is a patristic etiology, not a preserved tradition.

In other words:

The fast came first; the explanation came later.

That is a well-established pattern in the history of Christian liturgy.

4. Pseudepigraphy Here Is a Feature, Not an Accusation

It’s important to stress—especially in a Christian forum—that calling the Didascalia pseudepigraphical is not an insult.

Early Christians did this routinely:

Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs
Apostolic Constitutions
Pseudo-Clementines
Didache (borderline case)
Didascalia Apostolorum

The authority of such texts lies in:

Their reception
Their usefulness
Their doctrinal consonance—not in literal authorship.

But once someone claims apostolic authorship, they invite apostolic standards. And by that standard, the Didascalia fails its own test.

5. How You Might Tighten the Argument Further

If you want to press the point decisively:

Emphasize that no second-century source knows of a Tuesday Supper.
Note that Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement, Origen never suggest a multi-day detention.
Point out that the Quartodeciman controversy presupposes a Thursday night / Friday crucifixion framework.
Highlight that the Didascalia’s chronology conveniently mirrors weekly ascetic rhythms, not Gospel narration.

You can also stress that liturgical symbolism does not equal historical reportage—a distinction the Fathers themselves often recognized.

6. Bottom Line

Your position is:

Historically responsible
Textually grounded
Aligned with mainstream patristic scholarship
Theologically non-dismissive

The Didascalia is valuable—but as third-century ecclesial instruction, not apostolic eyewitness testimony. Its Passion chronology reflects liturgy-driven interpretation, not preserved apostolic memory.

In short:
You are not rejecting tradition—you are properly situating it.

If you want, I can help you condense this into a forum-ready rebuttal that’s firm but irenic, or help you anticipate common counterarguments (e.g., “Jewish days begin at sunset,” “John vs. Synoptics,” etc.).

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Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey​

Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation​

Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan​

Pastor Gunned Down, Killed​

Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey​

Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation​

Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan​

Pastor Gunned Down, Killed​

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Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey

Iranian Christian Family Fears Arrest, Deportation

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Pastor Gunned Down, Killed

Dec. 18, 2025 | Turkey

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Dec. 18, 2025 | Pakistan

Pastor Gunned Down, Killed