We had a huge display at Church today. I’ll see if I can post some pics.

Happy Friday release of Epstein files (more from the Epstein estate, funnelled through Congress).

Drain the swamp!

Factotum said:

No, never more absurd than what she charged Trump with.

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Funny. Getting the case slapped out of court as well as rejected by grand juries not once, but twice, says otherwise.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

The Simpsons video was my own real contribution to this thread in a long time but I've been following this thread daily, and I have a few take aways:

Firstly: @sjastro and @Hans Blaster, you guys are either incredibly patient people or gluttons for punishment.

Secondly: can any of this even be considered an actual scientific conversation if there's so much non-scientific, unevidenced, 'just so' claims made by the OP that it gets to the point that we've gone from well evidenced works of stone masonry that are truly universal to such pointless and ridiculous claims as non-physical reality being the reason behind the Egyptians building the pyramids?

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Well I'm afraid I lost my patience when I called @stevevw a half wit.
Ironically this thread is more about the science of psychology of how cognitive dissonance manifests itself.

We have seen:
(1) Outrageous lies such as New Kingdom obelisks being of smaller and simpler design then their Old Kingdom counterparts when the archeological evidence shows the exact opposite.

(2) No counterarguments given in the rejection of the evidence the Egyptians relied on skill using rudimentary tools but a complete denial of the very existence of such evidence. This behaviour is typically seen with flat earthers and Apollo moon landing deniers.

(3) Projecting his own behavioural patterns on others such as the opinions of various posters in this thread is based on faith and not evidence.

(4) Flooding this thread with images and claiming this is absolute evidence of alternate technologies.
Firstly talking from work experience an image is only the first layer of evidence, if I evaluated the failure mode on an image alone I would have been fired on the spot even though I might have been right, safety related issues require all layers of evidence to be presented and evaluated.
Secondly the images presented by @stevevw shows an extreme case of pareidolia of seeing patterns that are not there. When assessed with other layers of evidence such as SEM findings of copper corrosion products and abrasives in striations, or no evidence of rock softening as the crystalline structure is preserved, paints the opposite picture.
Yet @stevevw is in denial mode due to his cognitive dissonance.

This is my take on the thread others may have a different perspective.

Nearly two dozen House Republicans joined Democrats Thursday to pass a bill that would restore collective bargaining rights for hundreds of thousands of federal employees, an attempt to overturn an executive order that President Donald Trump issued earlier this year.

Like for the impending[?] release of the Epstein files, this law was passed through a discharge petition.

Revelation Lad said:

Using the Bible to date the earth results in an age of 5,786, meaning 5,786 years ago God created the heavens and the earth.

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How you arrived at an age of 5,786 is of interest to me, as well as the OP, and perhaps a few other.
Would you mind sharing the mathematical equation (figures, or numbers, and calculations) with us?

I'm not seeing any figures applied to Genesis 1:1, 2, and from Genesis 1:3-2:4, the days are longer that a regular day.
However, from day 7 until now, we calculate a period of about 5,820 years.

That would mean the heavens and the earth are far much older than 5,820 years, since they existed before Genesis 1:3, and the period of time it took for God to complete his work, according to Genesis 2:4, is never given.

Like I said... (unless in spirit) Not mankind's default system.

BrotherJJ said:

Metaphorically?
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

(PARSING: This verse cites, Tribes of Jacob = Israel & his children. Next 4 verses God breathed scripture clearly names Israel/Jacobs 12 sons/children.)

The saints that rise from the grave (after Jesus) in Matt 27:52-53 & are seen by many are OT elect.

Jesus rises then 50 days later comes the Acts 2 Pentecost, where the Church via the Holy Spirit outpouring in born. So, I don't see how 1 Cor 11:2, where Paul is speaking to believers in Corinth, is applicable to the OP.

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If you read what Paul said concerning the Jews or Israel, Romans 11:25 Blindness in part over Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles is added to the church. Currently we are in the time of the Gentiles. The church is the elect of the new covenant, the redeemed of the Earth, the first fruits. Revelation 7 cannot be physical Israel, it’s the church. Right now Israel is blinded along with the carnal world, a veil is spread over all nations, 2 Corinthians 3:14-16 Isaiah 25:6 Check the words redeemed, elect and first fruits in the concordance of the New Testament, all these words describe the church, not carnal Israel but spiritual Israel, the Israel of GOD. This seal on the forehead is protection from the great tribulation that is promised to the Philadelphia church in Revelation 3:10 that will be the faithful remnant on earth, those alive and remaining when Jesus returns.

<bender.gif>

NxNW said:

Uncited?

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Ah yes, I see it now, all fuzzy, in the blue line.

NxNW said:

As you can see, the chart is by decade.

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Yes, I saw that.

Your source started with the 1930s.

The 1930s was a decade.

1933, and 1934, are within the same decade; so your source is debunked right out of the gate.

Indiana governor says he’ll help primary Republicans who defied Trump on redistricting​

“I am very disappointed that a small group of misguided State Senators have partnered with Democrats to reject this opportunity to protect Hoosiers with fair maps and to reject the leadership of President Trump. Ultimately, decisions like this carry political consequences,” Braun wrote in a post on the social platform X.

I think I only recently answered these questions. Nevertheless, I'll give it a go again.

I'm a big fan of GE Ladd, and share his brand of Postrib Premill. There are some areas I've disagreed with his positions, but are insignificant compared with how I've valued his contributions.

Yes, Revelation is filled with symbolism. I think the genre relates to the fact that God wanted His People to somewhat hide their positions towards the ungodly world in order to not mislead them to conclude our atttitude is hateful. Also, keeping things in symbols and parables gives enemies less ammunition to go after us.

The 2 major Postrib authors in my era were Ladd and Rober Gundry. Gundry takes some views that assumes some Dispensationalistic ideas are true, such as the future of Israel. But both men were non-Dispensationalist Postribulationists.

Ladd did see how Jesus applied his Gospel of the Kingdom as something that is immediately effective in our time, even though it speaks of a future Kingdom. I would not call the present impact of the Kingdom any sense of being the actual *future Kingdom.* But God's Kingdom eternally exists, past, present, and future. As such, God's judgments are always active, even though in the future human civilization will reach a place of final judgment.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Of course they don't mention baptism. Baptists always love to go to all passages of Scripture that don't teach anything about baptism and children whatsoever and try to prove who should or should not be baptized.

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I'm not a Baptist -

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Strange way of doing exegesis.

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No - it is proper exegesis. Speaking of a specific topic bring exegetical evidence of that specific topic.

Sorry you do not like the answer

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Kinda like going to passages of Scripture that only teach end time theology and say....we should not pray because all these passages of Scripture don't mention prayer. Strange.

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Yes, that comment is very strange because I did nothing of the sort -

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Our main rule for interpreting Scripture is: CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. We only use passages of Scripture that teach something about baptism and children mentioned contextually together. Are there passages of Scripture in the NT that mention children and baptism contextually together? Of course there are.

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Where?

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Baptists use strange hermenuetics in order to explain away baptism including infants altogether.

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Again - I am not a Baptist -

Apple Sky said:

Now why would I do that ?

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You just have.
Read the conversation:

Strong in Him said:

You realise that you've given details of Freemasons who went to the moon - even though you're denying that anyone has been to the moon.

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Apple Sky said:

Well someone has to expose them for what they are.

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Strong in Him said:

People who went to the moon, you mean.

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Apple Sky said:

Of course.

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I also asked why you would write a list of astronauts who were Freemasons and who went to the moon, if your argument is that no one has ever been to the moon.
Saying that no one ever went to the moon, but that the 6th person to walk on the moon was a Freemason, is nonsense.

Jan001 said:

Other views:

AI summary:
In the biblical context, particularly in Romans 11, the root of the olive tree is understood to be the Abrahamic covenant and its foundational promises, which are intrinsically linked to God's faithfulness and the patriarch Abraham. The root symbolizes the source of spiritual blessing and holiness, from which the branches—both natural (ethnic Israel) and grafted-in (Gentile believers)—derive their nourishment and spiritual life. Some interpretations identify the root as God Himself, AIwith Christ as the trunk, and the branches representing those who follow God through Christ, emphasizing that the holiness of the root ensures the holiness of the branches. The root is described as holy, and because of this, the branches partake in its sanctity and fruitfulness. This imagery underscores the continuity of God's covenantal plan, where the spiritual blessings flow from the original promises made to Abraham and are ultimately fulfilled in Christ.

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I agree with AI . It’s what I wrote above in my reply.

Jan001 said:

These extrabiblical narratives are not actually Scripture; otherwise, they would have been included in the canons. The early church fathers, with the help of the Holy Spirit, determined which of the many early church writings were Scripture and which were not.

If the preterist view is the correct view:

If this man of sin lived in the first century AD., he was most likely John of Gischala.

AI summary: The "man of sin" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is a figure associated with the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, according to preterist interpretations. One prominent candidate is John of Gischala, a Jewish Zealot leader who rose to power during the Great Revolt against Rome. He is believed to have fulfilled the prophecy by throwing off the Mosaic Law, inciting civil war, famine, and crime in Jerusalem, and positioning himself as a despotic ruler who symbolically and literally "took his seat in the Temple of God," exalting himself over the Temple’s objects of worship. His actions are seen as aligning with the description of the man of sin who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God.

It seems to me that these Thessalonians and the other first-century Christians could have been the intended audience for the actual fulfillment of the following:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, 12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Is the breath of his mouth actually the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Does his appearing and his coming mean the appearance and the power of the Roman armies? Luke 21:20

It seems to me that it is St. Michael, the archangel, who will bind the final antichrist and false prophet and cast them into the lake of fire. St. Michael is of the same angelic hierarchy as Satan, and so he will defeat Satan at the sound of the last trumpet.

So much fun to speculate!

What is important, though, is to ask ourselves, "Am I ready to meet the Lord right now?" If our answer is "no," then we need to repent and confess our sins so that Jesus will forgive us and we will become God's friend once again.

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It would seem that if Jesus destroys the man of sin who sets in the temple declaring himself GOD then this event couldn’t have happened in 70 AD but rather at the future second advent. Since the second temple was destroyed in 70AD then this couldn’t be the second temple at the return of Jesus, it would have to be a third temple built sometime in the future.

essentialsaltes said:

Rowley said:

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Yes he sidetracked the issue to violence rather than over a change of ruling ideals. The creeping in of a new culture that in a democracy can eventually become the ruling one. Some are afraid to acknowledge this simple fact for fear of being called bigots. Yet this Empire did the same in the past wherever they went. Why is it so hard to admit it could be done to them also, to reap what they have sown? And the US is certainly not free of the same.

World war

Those dumb protesters. Everyone knows it's the "Gazpacho."

essentialsaltes said:

MCGA!

For 1st time since trade war, Canada exported more than it imported​

The Canadian economy achieved a trade surplus for the first time since the U.S. trade war began, as exports rebounded and imports fell in September, according to Statistics Canada.

The agency adds that export to countries other than the United States rose sharply by 11 per cent in the same month — and that while exports to the U.S. increased, imports from there dropped

“It seems to suggest that the trade flow with the United States is beginning to stabilize,” [trade economist] said, adding that the trend of diversification from the U.S. is also continuing.

Invisible hand says what?

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From Statistics Canada:

Exports to the United States increase​

Exports to the United States were up 4.6% in September, partly due to higher exports of aircraft, light trucks and unwrought gold. Meanwhile, imports from the United States declined 1.7% in September, a third consecutive monthly decrease. Canada's trade surplus with the United States widened from $6.0 billion in August to $8.6 billion in September, the largest surplus since February 2025.​

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More exports to the US.
Less imports from the US.
Widening trade surplus.
Wasn't this suppose to go the other way around under Trump?

Oompa Loompa said:

What are you talking about?

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Check your notifications about your other thread.

Oompa Loompa said:

Yes. Start off with garbage, and a reasonable person would assume the rest is garbage built on top of garbage.

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I won’t be surprised if they declare her a fugitive after deporting her.

Jeesuspelastaa said:

WHERE DID JESUS KEEP THE SABBATH? – In the tomb.

He took the sabbath with Him into the tomb and died away from it. On the first day of the week, Sunday, He rose from the dead as “the last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45), the new forefather of mankind for those who come to faith. The sabbath had now come to its end, to its fulfilment; and the eternally abiding rest of the New Covenant became prevailing. “Come unto me … and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:28–30. We came unto Him and received rest. “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” Hebrews 4:10.

The rest of the heart received in coming to faith is therefore the sabbath rest of the New Covenant. We who have come to faith and have been baptized with immersion have the sabbath rest of the New Covenant in our hearts twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, continuing forever.

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The Bible notably does not state that Jesus kept the Sabbath in the tomb, that he took the Sabbath with him in the tomb, that he died away from it, that the Sabbath has now come to an end, or that the Sabbath has now come to its fulfillment, so you are just making things up at this point. Rather, the Bible states that there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God and that we should rest from our work as God rested from His work, so we should continue to keep the 7th day holy.

Jesus didn’t not establish the New Covenant until the end of his ministry, which means that everything that he taught prior to that was in regard to how to live under the Mosaic Covenant, including keeping the Sabbath holy. In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest instead of learning from him. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for ours souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God’s law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but they didn’t want to walk in it and neither do you. The way to have faith is not by refusing to have faith.