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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Mental instability causing erratic faith issues.

Just remember that even though the stormy seas are wavier than ever Gods lighthouse is still there in the distance. Just keep referring back to that light even when its faint and its hard to see clearly through the mist. It will guide you home.

Questioning things is ok and sometimes we burn our fingers to learn a lesson. So long as we are willing to learn that lesson. Which takes faith. Sometimes thats what it comes down to. God doesn't give up on us and He will show the way. He is the potter and we are the clay.

Sometimes we lose the way and its ok. We have to steel our faith and that takes growth. We are also humans and we can take our humanness to God. He understands. I will pray for you that God will shine the way for you and give you hope and strength in your trials. :crosseo:
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Obama care collapsing.....

Yeah, it's too bad Republicans can't come up with a better system.

Yep, costs have gone up. Yet the republican replacement hasn’t arrived or even been written down. Odd that. Two weeks maybe…

If it's so bad why haven't the GOP replaced it in the 9 or so years?
What is the GOP plan again?
So what is the MAHA plan? Besides doing away with mandatory childhood vaccines?

Greatest example of tribe speak I have seen in years IMHO

Let's review

Democrat plan - not one Republican supported or voted for it.
Democrat run
Democrat executed

Republicans fault - got it!
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Gallup: Drop in U.S. Religiosity Among Largest in World

I really don't care what you "miss", and no separation isn't a feasible solution because there is no way to exclude religious people from public life nor should it be expected of them to do so. Not allowing for the establishment of a state church is fine, as it is reasonable not to give one religion a privileged status in a pluralistic society, but demanding that religious folks separate their religion from their politics and their public life in general is an unreasonable demand and is nothing more than de facto giving a privileged status to a particular position on religion.
No one is asking that, and you are free to let your religious beliefs inform your political views. Christians even have the power to impose them on others, to the extent of one vote each, just like everybody else. Provided, of course, that the imposition is not such as to interfere with their Constitutional rights.
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
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Are the Jews Israel, or is the church Israel? Or does it depend on the context of the passage?

Holy Toledo!

God's "bride" rejects God's own son? . . .and being God's bride that makes him her son also.

Pass the smelling salts. . .
I have been a preacher 40 plus years, I understand the bible. Can you not read? Because I explained why it is as it is in vivid detail. Yes, God's bride rejected Jesus as their Messiah, so God forsook them for nigh 2000 years but God had a plan. Question, do you really think if Jews had tried to take the Gospel unto the whole world the whole world would have accepted Jesus? God used Israel to birth the Messiah, the promise to Abraham, then God used 12 men and their underlings to teach the Gentiles how to Evangelize the whole world. If God had not allowed the Diaspora, the Gospel would have been perverted into some type of legalistic Judaism , so God knew exactly what needed to be done, Gid used His bride to birth the Messiah, then he used the Church or Jesus' future Bride to evangelize the whole world, then God will use His bride Israel to set up His sons 1000 year reign on earth.

The whole Bride thing is just to show us how our relationship with God is supposed to be pure like a relationship with ones spouse. Israel were put forth as an example. Have you ever seen Christian friend that FALL then get back right with God? So, Israel only rejected Jesus the Promise because they got sidelined with THE LAW, the never understood fully that it was The Promise which came over 400 years before the Law of Moses came. So, the fell because of Paul said.......LACK of FAITH....... and when that faith returns so will Israel unto God.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Here we can clearly see Paul delineates between THE CHURCH...........&..........Israel.

You can understand it now, or after you get to heaven, but one day you will see it sister. Just like Satan blinded Israel unto THE PROMISE (Jesus) he still blinds us on may things today.
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Bring Joy

On the Over-Seriousness of Today

The current age, with its technologies, its wars, its uncertainties and anxieties, is a gloomy and worried age. Rates of depression and anxiety have skyrocketed among younger generations and there is an ever-present burden upon everyone’s shoulders. The constant terrible photos and videos of the news cycle weigh upon our minds and hearts, as we are forced to hear about everything happening everywhere, all the time. Our phones and laptops keep us connected, even when we might desire to be left alone. This is, certainly, a very serious age: we take everything seriously. Our jobs, our families, our economy and political affiliations, and, most dangerously, our religion. It has become a Serious Matter to attend Church on Sundays, to receive the sacraments, to profess the Creed. Of course, the Faith should be celebrated and embraced with dignity, but one of the key words is that it should be “celebrated.” Our faith is not meant to only be a dour and depressing hour of our week, in which we all silently sit and wait for it to be over, our minds and hearts occupied with the myriad horrible things occurring around us.

Continued below.

That article really struck a chord with me. I take it as an exhortation to let our whole selves respond to the whole truth of God. There are many aspects to reverence, from a time to prostrate ourselves, overwhelmed by His holiness, to a time to dance and sing, overwhelmed by His goodness.

===============
Lady: Are you the police?
Elwood Blues: No, ma'am, we're musicians ... We're on a mission from God.
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Released after 12 years in Chinese prison.

Pastor Zhang Shaojie, from Nanle county in China’s Henan province, was released at the weekend, after serving 12 years in prison.

Pastor Zhang, pictured with his 84-year-old mother, was detained in November, 2013, following a dispute with local government authorities over a plot of land that his church had the legally acquired rights to.

He and other church leaders had been planning to have a new church and ministry centre built on the land. The year after being detained he was charged with ‘gathering a crowd to disrupt public order’ and ‘fraud’.

Church members believed the Chinese authorities had targeted him in order to obtain the land and to prevent the ministry of the church from growing.

Announcing his release from prison, Release International’s partner for China said, ‘We rejoice at his freedom, but we continue to pray for him and his family as the Chinese Communist Party has installed a large number of facial recognition cameras around his home and has not allowed anyone to visit.’

Give thanks for Pastor Zhang’s release

Pray for his physical and mental well-being and for his family.

What are some of your guns own and use then for Hunting and target practice?

The Nylon 66 was a dandy, H&R single shot 410 and later 20 gauge.
So many new calibers for today, but the real truth is that one can hunt with the old standards just as well as latest and greatest, as would take 270 win over the "miracle" 6.5 Creedmore any day of the week for hunting
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Pope Leo Embraces Transgenderism — Invites Prominent Trans Activists to Vatican Luncheon

Mathew 9:10-13, And as he (Jesus) sat at dinner in the house, many tax collectors and sinners came and were sitting with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” But when he heard this, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have come to call not the righteous but sinners.”
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Justified/Declared Righteous by Faith

Every verse in post #1 is a direct copy & paste from the Amplified Bible. All brackets were placed by AMP Bible Translators.

Eph
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].

Titus 3:
5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

6 whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 so that we would be justified [made free of the guilt of sin] by His [compassionate, undeserved] grace, and that we would be [acknowledged as acceptable to Him and] made heirs of eternal life [actually experiencing it] according to our hope (His guarantee).
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B flat B♭

OK - If sat's orbit earth in space, how do they manage to stay up ?
And now you’re just deflecting from answering the question. I’m looking for a viable alternative that fits the reality as to where satellite tv signals come from if not from satellites in geostationary orbit over a globe earth.

The bit you keep avoiding is that none of your flat earth gurus can answer that question with anything that makes sense according to the reality.
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Vatican stops use of titles for Mary

Are you saying everyone who doesn't post like that lacks knowledge? Or that posts should require the reader to look up numerous names and references?
Wisdom should be treasured, not reviled.

My saying that would be almost as absurd as your inference. You don't need to look up "reviled" and "inference"; I did it for you.

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The Fall of the West (It's Happening Now)

I believe Christians generally will be blindsided. There were all those following Trump blindly to get him in office, and they are in denial of what is happening to the world, to let it continue as is, because any crisis from it does not fit their eschatology, they are so sure theirs is the right understanding. I can see how that will go, and God hates the destruction to this earth, why will God stop the collapse of that which is destructive?
Revelation 11:18
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Can democratic Socialism save America?

Which one has worked?
Social Democracy
. The US is really already a Social Democracy "lite".
AI generated:
Social democracy is a political ideology and economic system that blends a capitalist market economy with a strong social safety net and government regulation. It seeks to balance individual liberty with social justice, aiming to achieve this by using democratic and lawful means to create a more equitable society through public services like universal healthcare and education, and through regulations that ensure fair pay and worker protections.
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the "blue wave" last night and the government shutdown

In the United States, employers typically cover about 70% of insurance premiums, while individuals who receive insurance through their employer pay roughly 30%. If universal healthcare does not reduce overall healthcare costs in the country by 70%, individuals will end up paying more than 30% through taxes.
The 70% employer / 30% employee split is misleading, employers don’t absorb that cost for free. Their health-insurance spending comes directly out of worker wages, meaning workers effectively pay close to 100% of their healthcare costs already.

Universal healthcare systems typically reduce total national healthcare spending by 30–50% through price negotiation and lower administrative costs. So even if taxes replace premiums, most people would still pay less overall than they do now once you include premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and lost wages.

And this is evidenced in employee wage decreases associated with premium increases. Employers aren't just covering costs out of their own pockets, the money still comes from the employees. It's just indirect.

Employer coverage doesn’t eliminate the cost, rather it repackages it. Employees effectively pay for it through lower wages, but they gain tax savings, lower individual premiums, and convenience. It’s a system that spreads cost and risk, but it does not reduce the underlying expense, which is why universal healthcare proponents argue that a single-payer system would be simpler, more transparent, and often cheaper overall.



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Fundamentalist or Evangelical?

That's an interesting perspective on the question. I'm used to thinking of the categories "Fundamentalist", "Evangelical", and "Liberal" as attitudes toward modern scholarship, with Fundamentalists rejecting most modern scholarship of science, history, and biblical studies, Liberals embracing these kinds of scholarship, and Evangelicals trying to carve out a difficult middle ground.

Yes. But I am not sure its the right perspective, or if I am asking about it the right way. I'm coming at this as a non-believer now, but who used in christian circles, and had a christian upbringing - sunday school, services etc, but yet I always struggled with christian living, and my relationship with "the things of the world" so I don't know if I really had faith. I just find some churches seem to leave it to the individual and their conscience to decide what they watch, listen to etc. Basically what seems to happen is for one christian they work through the matter and they believe its ok to go to the cinema, for another its not, but each is convinced in their own mind, neither looks down on the other. But in other christian circles (correct me if I am wrong here) stuff like playing cards, or even games of chance without money involved, going to the pub, the cinema, dance hall etc, speaking in tongues, and lots of other things can be taboo, and it differs from church to church sometimes. From what I have read some groups regarded even drinking tea or coffee taboo in the 19th century!

So what I am asking is this viewing of certain things, activities etc. as taboo, is this something one would encounter more with certain christian groups, denominations etc, than others, or is it something is present to varying degrees in all christian groups?
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Street Preaching

Yes, for sure. While Trump fixed some things the government was doing, like spying on Christians and labeling them as "extremists" via the FBI, I think that isn't going to stop the people behind that from picking it back up once Trump is out of office.
I have been thinking about this and realised that what is at stake is more than Christianity. But the freedoms that the west brought which stemmed from Christian values. But the principles of freedom and democracy was a western idea seperated from the church.

So really when people reject Christianity they are also rejecting constitutional rights.

It shows that this is about ideological belief in how the world should be ordered. A belief that is willing to sacrifice or deny the truth principles of freedom and democracy and to impose an ideology on others. Which is the complete reverse of how the church once imposed its will on society.
Then you have the idea where Christians are hated for being against some lifestyles because scripture says it's wrong.
Yes and it makes sense as far as the world is concerned. Logically if the State replaced the church and the State represents the social norms. Then as the social norms move further away from God it becomes more conflicting.

The State became the new church because the political was made the personal with identity politics. Which had been cultivated for decades. Once the political becomes the personal then morality comes in. Then its a battle of morality as to which belief should stand as the basis for society and the nation.

This is the beginning of the battle we are seeing happening now. As time goes by this will become more defined between Christians and the world. Christ and the anti Christ.
We're seeing a rise in that too and then let's not forget the rise in extreme Muslim thinking too that is leading to attacks against Jews and Christians in western countries. England is getting it the worst right now. So absolutely, I think it's only going to get worse as people get more brazen.
Yes and its interesting that both political extremists and Islamists are rising at the same time. I can remember when the western nations were allied against the barbaric terrorism of extreme Islamists. Remember 9/11 and the Bali nightclub suicide attacks. The train and bus bombings, and knife and vehicle attacks on the streets.

Then Covid came and it settled down. But then came the cultivation of identity politics and the culture war. I really think the radical Islamists were not stupid. They declare they will get the Jews and west anyway they can. So it seems their kind of extreme mindset has been brought into the west. Mixed with the already extremist politics and you have a perfect storm for sowing division and dissent.

The common enermy being Jews and the west and Christians by extension. But its interesting how it just happens to be the Jews and Christians and not say Greeks and pagans or Muslims or any other percieved enermy that needs to be stopped.
I agree! My aunt was a street preacher before she died when I was little. The fact that a woman could do it alone back in the 70's and 80's vs today just essentially says all that needs to be said lol.
Yes and I remember going to a church in the heart of Darlinghurst which is the Gay capital of the world back then. I would often walk the streets with Christian friends. Kings Cross was next door and you would see all sorts of preachers out and about. Or mission vans.

People loved the hope and even social aspect. They could talk religion and not get irrate, and share stories. It offered a different perspective from that which they lived everyday.
Absolutely! That's another issue as well depending on where you work.
Thats why I think the care industries good because you are always helping in some way which is a basic Christian value. But some organisations are better than others as far as ethics go. Plus I see a lot of church based retail stores and especially help services like job agencies or training programs.

A local church actually built a community center with offices for counsellors, psychologists and legal and working with the local government in different care industries such as aged care and youth justice. So there are a few Christian based organisations. Or secular organisations in the care industry with Christian values.
  • Agree
Reactions: Delvianna
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Refuting Losing Salvation!

Hi there :) The entire law that was given by Moses started with the 10 commandments but that was very different by the subsequent ceremonial laws that he then gave later. Both are in the Pentuateuch, but the idea of the laws are separate.
Hi and appreciate your replies! Yes, both are Law and both were to be obeyed when it was in force; but now the Jews have no law which means no present Covenant because it was removed, "That He may establish the second." "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second" (Heb 10:9; 8:7).
There are instances of Pastors who preach for decades, who eventually turn away from God because their child died or spouse, or some big instance that makes them upset at God and so they leave.
Our love for God must mean more than our love for any other; otherwise we miss God altogether. "Mat 10:37
"He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
What do you repent for then?
Isn't repentance one ceasing from doing wrong, which is taught by John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus?
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Is President Trump Corrupt? Three Stories.

I would have to say Warren Harding, Lyndon Johnson, and Richard Nixon all rank pretty high up there.
I tend to think of corrupt politicians as those who personally enrich themselves. On that front, it is hard to get anywhere near Trump.
Harding (and the Teapot Dome scandal) goes without saying...
There were several members of the Harding cabinet that were deep in the Teapot Dome (I have a book around here somewhere...), but like the corruption of the Grant Cabinet and Credit Mobilere (UP construction) scandal there is little to no evidence either president was personally involved or profiting. Grant was apparently blind to their corrupt actions and Harding was too busy in the closet with his mistress (and then died after 2 years).

LBJ used the FCC to give preferential treatment to radio stations that he owned.
Yep. I know about this one thanks to Robert Caro. And there is the connections he made to the Texas contractor building New Deal dams in the Texas Hill Country. (I think it was Brown and Root.) that, if I recall correctly, was also tied to those stations. LBJ certainly did manage to enrich himself in Congress.
Watergate revealed that the Nixon and his pals were certainly no strangers to slush funds, questionable "gift giving", and "unusual" cash contributions.
There was also the creative "deductions" for the donation of his papers to the archive. (Spiro Agnew was literally taking cash bribes in envelopes from his time as MD governor in the WH complex and pled no lo contedre to one count immediately after resigning.)
Bush/Cheney obviously had some noteworthy links to the defense contracting industry (in the case of Cheney) and the oil industry (in the case of Bush) that would raise a few eyebrows with regards to personal conflicts of interest.
I'm not sure if this is traditional corruption, just favoritism to old friends. The company Cheney ran prior to running for VP, Halliburton, is a construction and oil services company and one of its divisions is KBR -- Kellogg, Brown, and Root, the successor to the company LBJ was entangled with.
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