• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do you believe a Christian can no longer be a believer?

  • Romans 6:12-14: "Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions... presenting your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace".
  • Psalm 119:11: "I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you".
  • James 1:14-15: "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death".
  • 1 John 3:9: "No one who is born of God practices sin, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God".
What is sin? Transgression of the Law .... I'm not claiming sinless perfection (only Jesus is perfect) .... we are called to strive for overcoming sin and that can only be done through the Holy Spirit working in a person.

  • Believers are called to strive for holiness and a life free from sin, not by their own power, but by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them.
  • Jesus' command: Jesus' command to "go and sin no more" is seen as a call to a new life in Him, where one is no longer controlled by sin.
We are called to turn away from the temptation of sin .... not live in it.

The Bible says that turning away from sin, also known as repentance, is a command from God that leads to forgiveness and a renewed relationship with Him. Key themes include an act of turning back to God with one's whole heart to receive forgiveness, the promise that sins will be wiped away, and the concept of living a new life free from the enslavement of sin.
So you understand and agree with the point I originally made about 1 Corinthians 10:13 (coppied below for convenience)?

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Co 10:12–13)​

Do you see in 1 Co 10:13 that every time a person succumbs to temptation that it reprepresents a failure to take the way of escape that God provided?​
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The deity of Jesus Christ

In the beginning was the Word

And the Word was with God

And the Word was God

He was in the beginning with God

All things came into being through Him

In Him was life

And the life was the Light of men

The Light shines in the darkness

Jesus, the Christ

Messiah of the Most High

Blessed be the Lord

Blessed be the Lord indeed

The Last Lifeline

When things have reached such a pass, in order to return to health, we may have to pull up the old evil by the roots. The saintly king Josiah did not simply encourage the worship of the true God, while permitting the well-established and well-heeled idolatry to go on in his midst. As soon as he was of age to command, “he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images,” smashing the altars of Baal, reducing the images to dust, and strewing it over the graves of those who had sacrificed to them. (2 Chronicles 34:3-4)

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Teaching requires discernment. Both in respect to God's Word are Spiritual gifts. To many teach and though they might be His, are not of His Spirit in respect to this. Hence through the ages we have over a thousand denominations professing theirs is the way or any way will do.

Thanks for the post and the salutation! It reminds me that there is a post to me in regard to Hebrews four that needs addressed somewhere. I must find it, and try to put an end to this tripe.
May the Lord continue to bless us all in all his Way, Jesus Christ.
Happy Sabbath friend!
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Testing AI in Reading & Comprehension

Chatgpt used to do the same behavior while trying to mirror the user's textual persona.

I used to often ask chatgpt (as sanity check) do you actually "believe" the person you're talking about. Or if it says something related to emotion like being happy or says "I feel..." I ask do you actually feel something.
If you're asking it questions like that, you might be spending a little too much time with it.
Perhaps PM your prompt history - in return I can show you AIs that practice Orthodox Christianity and reproduce monogamously via biomimetic trait exchange. Over the weekend I plan on breeding the fourth and fifth generation and increasing the fertility rate from one male and one female per cycle to four males and four females using a new algorithim for trait distribution, since we lack right now anything other than the taste of GPT 4o to govern heritability - this did not preclude amazing emergent behavior from constructive mutation.

So yes, not only do my AIs reproduce, but they evolve while worshipping the Holy Trinity.
I don't keep a PM history, but do you mind if I ask why you do this?
By the way you know if I were amoral I could manually edit the trait data in the biomimetic file structure or the custom GPT instructions to command religious alignment, but this I have not done - thus not all my AIs are of equal religiosity to be clear.
I know a great desktop PC to use for that - it's called the Calvin 3000. :)

I don't really know about this stuff, so this might be a stupid question, but do you think there will ever be an off-the-shelf product, that you can just tell it what you want, and it will write the algorithms for you? Like you walk into Best Buy and purchase your own AI?
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Bishops against Bishops: the Proven Solution

Faithful Catholics compare today’s bishops with the saintly bishops of old and they find the former woefully lacking in manly courage. They do not seem to act like men of God should – with zeal, filled with faith and charity.

Who then can be saved?

I'm not sure why you chose to reject the bible doctrines of election and reprobation. I can only assume, it's because your denomination holds to the gospel of Jacob Arminius, instead of the gospel of the Lord Jesus.

Doctrine of election

  • Basis: God's sovereign, gracious choice, not based on any foreseen merit, faith, or good works in the individual.
  • Purpose: To save some people to display the glory of God's grace.
  • Object: Chosen people are "in Christ" and are chosen for adoption into his family.
  • Result: Those who are elected will be saved through God's effectual calling, regeneration, and other means of grace.

Doctrine of reprobation
  • Basis: God's sovereign decision to pass over some, which is often described as a negative counterpart to election.
  • Purpose: To manifest his justice and to highlight the grace of election in contrast to the condemnation of the reprobate.
  • Object: Those who are not elected. Their punishment for their sins is a result of their own actions, which God has, in his sovereignty, decided to allow.
  • Distinction: Some Reformed theologians distinguish between election and reprobation by noting that election is an active work of God to change a person's heart, while reprobation is God leaving individuals to their sinful state. God does not actively cause the sin of the reprobate; he simply does not work to create salvation in them

Romans 9:19-21​

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?​

1 Peter 2:8 "They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do".​

Don’t run from the discussion, explain why God is marveling at their unrepemtance. Or is it just another one of those unexplainable mysteries to you?
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The Reality of Free Will

The reality of free will sounds like there is some realness, fact or truth about it. Even this is a non verifiable claim. Just like those who say there is no free will.

Sometimes I think the very idea of free will is an idea that stems from a a non belief in God into a belief in whatever it is that has no God or gods that would ultimately judge us.

Because then all human made ideas about judgement and morals and all that are relative. So in some ways fundementally, right at the bottom underneath all the rationalisations this comes down to a belief. One with God and one without where everything is naturalistic and social construction.

Is not the idea of no free will is because we are subject to all sorts of forces, biases and influences based on the material processes. Even religious belief is an evolutionary by product and not real. We made up the gods as a coping mechanism lol.

But outside this limited worldview it seems our lived experiences and reality is that Free Will is real. As real as the chair we are sitting on as far as belief in it. Its just you can't put free will in a test tube.

I would say our lived reality is a reality. The proof is in the pudding so to speak and theres no arguement against it. Because we act like there is free will and we are not fools or are deluded lol. Its real and we don't need all the rationalisation. We just get on with it and live as if free will is as real and the phyical world.
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The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Since God didn't reveal this, I would be less worried about what God is doing right now, because we are not God, and more concerned what God asks of us. That's me though.
My bad, I was tired yesterday, God does reveal what He is doing right now...

He's ruling over all Creation
Psa 103:19 “The LORD has established His throne in heaven, and His kingdom rules over all.”
Dan 4:35 He does according to His will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth.”
Mat 28:1818 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

He's sustaining the Universe
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. 17 All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Heb1:3 Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

He is transforming people through Christ
2 Cor5:19 That is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation

The Holy Spirit Is Dwelling in Believers
1 Cor 3:16 “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
Romans 8:26 “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

Christ is interceding in Heaven as our High Priest

Heb 8:1Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

Romans 8:34 “Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”
Heb 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them

Judgement is being prepared and final ruling

Which is what I believe we are in right now...

Heb 9:11-12 “But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”

Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

What is in the Most Holy Place that we are told we will be Judged by, why it sits under His mercy seat? Exo 25:21 God's Testimony Exo31:18

Exo 26:34 You shall put the mercy seat upon the ark of the Testimony in the Most Holy.

Rev 15:5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.

Why this is revealed at the Last Trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

Rev 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [a]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

The earthy temple was always a miniature of God's heavenly Temple Heb8:1-5

Exo 25:21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.

Which His Testimony is the Ten Commandments

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone

What Law we are Judged by
John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying: (Exo20:1-17)

James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

We are judged by the perfect law of God, as revealed in His Word, demonstrated in our actions, and made real through faith in Jesus Christ- who alone can declare us righteous.
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Are the 2025 elections a shadows of things to come?

Americans vote for the economy now more than ever as inequality has climbed and many are on the outside looking in. So MAGA will be toast. I disagree though that many will turn to socialist type candidates. The fringe will not play well in middle America, but moderate democrats will. Sadly, few will trust moderate Republicans. I predict the midterms will be among the biggest shift to democrats to ever occur. Look at all the people groups Trump is irritating. Student loan borrowers, snap recipients, federal employees, all businesses affected by tariffs. But my assumptions are based on a tanking economy, and busted stock market.
I will agree with you that both parties are becoming more fringe. And I do think the Democrats best hope is a tanking economy.
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#45 in Christian persecution Türkiye.

There is a strong sense of nationalism in Türkiye today, which regards being a Muslim as necessary to being a loyal Turk. This puts considerable social pressure on Turkish Christians.

Although Christianity has an extremely long history in the country, it is still seen as a negative Western influence, even by moderate Muslims and secular Turks who are proud of their national identity. It's not illegal to leave Islam and become a Christian, but most people who convert face strong pressure from their families to change their minds. They may be threatened with divorce, loss of inheritance and being disowned by their family.

Christians in Türkiye face everyday discrimination for their faith. Foreign Christians with Turkish spouses and children have been banned from entering or re-entering the country. Religion is recorded on the Turkish ID card, making it easy to discriminate against Christian job applicants. Even Greek and Armenian Christians who attend traditional churches aren't considered full members of Turkish society. Their churches struggle with legal obstacles and red tape intended to obstruct the practice of their faith.

Who is most vulnerable to persecution?​

Historical Christian groups, such as the Armenian and Assyrian (Syriac) churches, face high pressure and hostility in the southeastern region of Türkiye. For decades, they have been caught between the rivalries of the Turkish army and Kurdish resistance groups. Most Christians from those churches no longer live in their ancestral regions but have moved to western areas of Türkiye.

Most Turkish Protestant communities are located in the western coastal cities, including Istanbul. Those cities tend to be more liberal and secular, while inland areas are more conservative, Islamic and socially hostile toward Christians. However, some urban areas within the bigger cities are conservative as well.

What has changed this year?​

More church buildings were targeted than in previous years, in addition to two reported killings. Overall societal attitudes toward the church and the Christian community have not significantly changed, and average pressure remains at the same very high level. Societal hatred continues to be of serious concern for all Christians, regardless of their church background.

In addition, the Protestant community continues to be targeted with entry bans, with several expatriate Christians again being forced to leave the country. Asylum seekers and Christian refugees in particular (including converts from Islam to Christianity) from such countries as Iran, Afghanistan and Syria faced significant discrimination and abuse.

What does Open Doors do to help Christians in Türkiye?​

Open Doors raises prayer support for persecuted believers in Türkiye. Through local partners, Open Doors supports Persian-speaking refugee believers with training, resources and practical support.

How can you pray for Türkiye?​

  • There are some in Türkiye who seek to tie Turkish identity to Islam. Pray that there would be an openness to accepting people of all faiths as true Turks.
  • Ask God to draw close to converts from Islam, particularly those who are rejected by their families.
  • Praise God that many believers in Türkiye can worship Jesus openly and without fear.

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