BelieveItOarKnot said:

There's a perfectly good and obvious reason why terms in the KJV with regards to a lot a scripture using terms such as "these" and "they" rather than people.

The reason is contained right there in the parable and exampled by Jesus and the Apostles that shows the devil and his messengers operate in and through people.

So, you will term people as just some people but the term some isn't in the parable

ALL people have the Word stolen from our hearts. ALL. That theft is perpetual. None have perfect and full understandings. None. There are no exceptions. Never have been other than God Himself in the flesh

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Another strawman argument: I never suggested anyone other than Christ is perfect.

Do at least some Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit and if so does demons, devil or some other evil beings also dwell in these people?

I am still waiting on you to find on NT translation done by a group of scholars which has Mark 4:13-20 using people. Also look at Jesus explanation of the same parable in Matt:13: 18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

You have to look at the context for both the soils and different individuals, they are not all the same people.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

We're not discussing possession

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Are they not in the person causing sin?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Temptation equates to evil lawless thoughts which defile everyone. Again no exceptions. Never have been exceptions

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You say: “Temptation equates to evil lawless thoughts which defile everyone. Again no exceptions.” Jesus was tempted so did He have evil thoughts?

I'm currently teaching The Crucible to my eleventh graders. One of the characters, a slave named Tituba, is from Barbados. I didn't know where that was located, so I Googled it. Barbados is an island in the Caribbean Sea / West Indies:

Considering Paul has a salvation warning 2Peter3:16 , I would caution anyone who is using Paul against the very Testimony of Jesus Himself Who said the Sabbath would not end at the Cross Mat24:20 or ever Isa66:22-23

There is more than one Sabbath in Scripture, one came before sin one after sin that had to do with food and drink and offerings the context of this passage. I have completed a Bible study on this that spells out the context hopefully some will take the time to prayerfully study before carelessly disregarding one of God’s own personally written and spoken commandments And His own Testimony Exo31:18 Isa8:20

First, we can't isolate Col 2:16 without looking at the immediate context if we truly want to understand what Paul is speaking about.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.
Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about

1. handwritten
2. against and contrary to us

1. Was the Sabbath commandment "handwritten" ?

Lets look at what the Bible says
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


Context doesn't fit

3. Is the Sabbath commandment against and contrary to us

Lets look at what Jesus said:
Mat 2:28 The Sabbath was made for man
The Sabbath was made for man, what God makes for man is not against us. The Sabbath is blessed and sanctified by God, its not the definition of contrary and against

Context doesn't fit

So looking at the immediate context shows clearly Paul is not speaking of the Sabbath commandment. Nor does Paul have the authority to change God's written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 the words of the covenant Exo 34:28 that God promised He would not alter Psa 89:34 they went from written on tables of stone to written on tablets of the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10 because God keeps His promises.

Right here is enough to know Paul is not referring to the Sabbath commandment, but lets keep going.

This is what Paul is quoting the law he is referring to is from

Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The laws that were beside the ark of the Covenant handwritten by Moses, there as a witness against, the context of Col 2:14


But lets look at this verse closer

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The Greek word for sabbath here is plural not singular. So its not speaking of "The" Sabbath day "The holy day of the Lord" as already seen in the context.

Paul is quoting Ezekiel all of the sacrifices and offerings.

Eze 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and theburnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

What was predicted would end when Jesus came?

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

So this is not about any of the Ten Commandments but about the food and drink offerings, feast days that some were also sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses placed besides the ark of the covenant that came after the fall of man. The Sabbath started at Creation before sin Exo 20:11 so can't be a "shadow" of anything as it is part of God's perfect plan before sin took over and a need for a plan of salvation.

Why if you look at the next verse it clearly shows what it is referring to which works in perfect harmony with the context

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. (contrary and against)
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU DID NOT DESIRE, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME.
Heb 10:6 IN BURNT OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAD NO PLEASURE.
Heb 10:7 THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME—IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME—TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.' "
Heb 10:8 Previously saying, "SACRIFICE AND OFFERING, BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR HAD PLEASURE IN THEM" (which are offered according to the law),
Heb 10:9 then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

Exo 12:17 43 So the Lord said to Moses and Aaron: This is the ordinance of the Passover:
1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

There is so much more evidence I could provide like comparing what Jesus said which in using Col 2:14-16 against the Sabbath commandment contradicts His teachings. Hopefully this will be looked at in prayer as I know this is a popular teaching, but the context does not fit the Sabbath commandment written by the finger of God that is part of God's holy and eternal law Mat 5:18-19 Isa 66:23

Oompa Loompa said:

Okay. Then we should get rid of dual citizenship.

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Why? What harm does it cause.

Hentenza said:

It’s part of the verse. Jesus tells the disciples to, if necessary, sell their cloaks to buy the sword.

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His instruction to buy a sword was not a call to violence or rebellion, but a sober reminder that they were entering a dangerous and uncertain time

BPPLEE said:

It is remarkable that a man who couldn’t draw a crowd and campaigned from his basement for the most part got more votes than Obama

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Just shows how bad his opponent came across.

I also think public interest and awareness of politics sharply increased in the 4 years Trump was president his first term and especially so during that first year of Covid lockdowns and protests across the country. Couple that with an eased process to vote by mail and much greater awareness that’s an option I think all contributed to such a high turnout that year. Last year we were slightly more back to normal in terms of turnout and without any candidates really driving people out to the polls we got an extremely close race with Trump only slightly edging out over Harris. Two very unpopular choices to most voters. No crazy conspiracies necessary.

CoreyD said:

There is a program I used... imagemagick, which I had no problem using, until I found out it may be a security risk.
On the other hand, I have a problem with movies and games containing magic, and I find that most, if not all RPG games tend to have some form of magic.
I even have a problem watching Walt Disney film. There always seem to contain some element of magic.

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I look at it as, where is the "magic" coming from? Because biblically, people are able to heal the blind, raise the dead, call down fire from heaven, make an iron axe head float... So we can't say thats bad or evil since the power was coming from God. I'm sure you wouldn't feel wrong playing an RPG that had you going around healing people for God, right? But obviously if you were running around healing people and the RPG clearly stated you gained your power from a god named Metisathes, then that would be an absolute no. So thats why I say for me it depends on context and not necessarily just the word.

CoreyD said:

I appreciate you telling me that, thanks.

Thanks for trying.
That was a great effort, and you did well - far better than Copilot, because you saw that these are not examples that will stand up, but actual people. This is why intelligent minds are better than AI.
You are correct. That is exactly what these texts are saying. Quite simply

The next step is to find out if this judgment is a day where people will line up before a throne, and sentence be read, after which, wrongdoers are punished.
I think you already recognize that cannot be the case, since the Queen of Sheba is spoken of in a positive way, as well as the Ninevites. In fact, even those in Sodom and Gomorrah, where that city and all in it were destroyed for gross sin, are all said to stand up "with this generation, and condemn it".

So then, how long is the judgment day?
Please read Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 20:4-6
Here, we see that Jesus judges with those chosen to rule with him for the thousand years, when the Devil is bound, so that he does not mislead the nations until the thousand years are ended. Revelation 20:1-4

Judgement day is a period of 1,000 years where all who return... actual people who lived in the land of Sodom and Gomorrah, Nineveh, Tyre and Sidon, .... the entire globe of unrighteous people, will be raised to, what Jesus calls, a resurrection of judgment. John 5:28, 29
What does this involve?

Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and [h]books were opened; and another [i]book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the [j]books, according to their deeds.

Of course, physically dead people cannot stand, so this scripture evidently refers to spiritually dead.
So, we can conclude that these are the same unrighteous people, that are raised to a resurrection of judgment.
The verse says these dead ones are judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
The Bible does not say what these books are, but they are judged according to their deeds.
Since the judgment is 1,000 years their deeds would correspond with that period, and those books.

The next verse tells us they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds, and if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life [the other book that was opened], he was thrown into the lake of fire... which means the second death. Revelation 20:13-15
That means, obviously, their deeds during the 1,000 years did not lead to righteousness.

So, after the 1,000 years, when Satan is loosed, and goes out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, he gathers together a great number of them that is like the sand of the seashore. Revelation 20:7, 8
Their final outcome is the second death.
However, they were given an opportunity to learn righteousness and practice it.

The answer then, to your query regarding God's mercy for people in the Old Testament. Yes. Not only is it reasonable, it's scriptural, that God remembers unrighteous people who died before having the opportunity to put faith in Jesus Christ, and will resurrect these ones to life, so that they can learn the truth, and live by righteous deeds... if they so desire. Acts 24:15
Those spiritually dead ones who practice righteousness, will come to life spiritually, after the 1,000 years. Revelation 20:5

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Corey, my understanding of the thousand year judgement of Rev. 20, is a literal thousand years in which the living saints at the time of Christ return and those resurrected in the first resurrection (believers of all ages past) will set with Christ in heaven during this sentencing portion of Christ’s judgment of the lost. The saints will examine each lost individuals book of deeds to determine the amount of restitution that each sinner must atone for in Hell before they experience the second death.

The earth is void during this time, as all the lost are slain by the sword (command) that comes out of the mouth of the, Faithful and True [Christ] Rev. 19. The lost of all ages are resurrected in the second resurrection at the end of the thousand years, Revelation 20:5. Satin and his angels too, are released from the spirit realm again and gather the lost to destroy New Jerusalem, the camp of God’s people, the city He loves, (Rev. 20:7-9) which has come down from heaven.

Jesus commands a halt to Satan and the fallen before their assault on the city, for the Great White Throne Judgement is to take place. Here at this time all who have ever had life will be in attendance. The saints inside of New Jerusalem and the lost outside. The saints will have just witnessed that even when the wicked see New Jerusalem in it’s splendid glory before their very eyes, they still will not repent and honor God, but were willing to follow Satin and destroy God and His people. Their actions prove God was correct in judging them as unrepentant.

At this time also God wants the lost to understand why He could not save them, thus each individual is show their book of deeds that had been recorded during their lifetime, out of which Christ Judge them. After this reveal, every knee will bow before Christ our creator. The wicked because His justice was true, and the saints because of His mercy to save them by faith, knowing their unworthiness.

Then follows the fires of hell falling from heaven which devours the wicked, according to the restitution that each must pay before eternal death (the wages of sin) claims their life. Thus sin is no more, and Christ creates the new heaven and earth, and the saints witness it all, and receive it as their inheritance, because of their faith in Christ.

Dave... said:

Yes, they are in Heaven.

Before the cross John 3:13-15. That Psalm passage in post #21 was the wrong one. I fixed it. It said Psalm 16:19, but I meant Psalm 16:10-11. That was to show that what was called Sheol in the OT, is called Hades in the NT.

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And John. 3:13 SAY that no one has ASCENDED. IN. HEAVEN ,( BUT // ME. , IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE. ). means

NEVERRRRR has ascended to HEAVEN. but he that came down. FROM HEAVEN !!

So where does anyone go after DEATH ??

And I do have answer and shown just where the lost go after . death and. where those saved go after dying !!

dan p

*Takes a sip of magic tea* May God bless you even if it may seem as though satan has gotten an advantage or is worth believing. For God will send someone to help you whether it be the Holy Spirit, or angels, or a person to remind you that you're being helped by these beings.

d taylor said:

-

​

Well it is the age of satan and believers can be deceived into believing in lies.

The Hebrews are an example of this on may occasions worshiping false idols, that pagan groups introduced into their lives. Also Number 13,14 is a great example of the Hebrews believing in the lies of their own spies. Instead of the word/promise of God that He, (God) would be with them and that they can take the land God is giving them. So believers believing in lies is nothing new.

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Space is not a lie but part of God’s magnificent creation. That space is real and is an absolute truth and that God created it is also an absolute truth. By saying that one is a lie is to call the second a lie also.

Episode 38 continues, though the North vent (the weaker one today) is already shut down. The South vent is still throwing lava about 1/2 mile through the air. (It must really hate the V2 cam.)

Here is a news report from the Big Island:

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Always in His Presence said:

BTW - I'm not a dude - I don't work on a horse ranch

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That sounds like a line said by a city slicker in a comedy movie.

Lukaris said:

I have found trying to conform my conscience to the Lord’s commandments useful for daily living. I need my conscience for necessary functional living and I need the Holy Spirit as my counselor. When, for ex., I read John 14:15-18 this seems very clear to me. I believe what Paul tells Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:5 can be applied here on an individual level although their discussion is on a pastoral level.

When I refer to the Lord’s commandments, of course I refer to Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 7:12 per Matthew 7:1-12, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10 per Romans 13:1-14 etc. The basic way to live this is to try to practice basic charity & prayer ( see Matthew 6:1-13, Matthew 9:36-38, 1 Timothy 2:1-6 etc.).

Probably most believing Christians are already doing this but not seeing the whole picture & feeling something might be missing. Paul tells us realize that the Lord’s grace given to us is sufficient ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) & not to get confused by things we may not be able to handle ( 2 Corinthians 12:1-9).

I believe challenges continue to face us as we live. When I read Galatians 5:1-25 ( for ex.), I see the bigger picture but I am still, as with others, moving along ( see Philippians 3:12-16). I see myself more towards the slower end of the line but my faith moves me along.

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When reading Romans 13 I think it’s important to point out that God has indeed appointed authorities, but this is not the same as anyone who appoints themselves as authority is from God.

The only thing I’ve ever been absolutely right about is knowing I can be wrong.

Its good to be wrong sometimes, it helps us to learn humility, which even many Christians ignore.
Don't ignore it, embrace it --- It is the Queen of virtues.

rjs330 said:

Islamism is a much greater threat than Christian Nationalism.

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Not to me, or is not.

WordSword said:

It's ok of course but we just differ in our understanding concerning the Law and the OT. God bless!

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Almost all the verses I quoted of the Law of God including the original Text James2:11 is NT.

As God’s Testimonies are sure. Psa19:7 Exo31:18 Deut4:13, heaven and earth will pass, but not God’s word which He uses interchangeably with His commandments.

Mat 25:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away..

Mat5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Luke 16:17 It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Mat 15:3 And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ From the Ten Commandments
Mat 15:6 he is not to honor his father or mother.’ And by this you have invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.


Mat 7:13 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

Which commandment?
‘Honor your father and your mother’ (from the Ten Exo20:12 Deut4:13)

13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”


The entire Bible is about the testimony of God through His prophets and apostles. John5:39 and which one of these have a greater testimony than God Himself? Exo31:18 Deut4:13 Heb8:10 2Cor3:3, not one.

God bless!

eclipsenow said:

Acts 2:

I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

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The phrase "great and glorious day of the Lord" has a very specific meaning in the OT, you can check that out.

eclipsenow said:

So again, what evidence do you have that the Apostles were thinking of Daniel 9 specifically?

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I already said, the Acts 2 church followed Luke 12:33 literally and sold all their possessions. They were expecting the Mark of the Beast anytime soon, that is why they did that.

Do you think they were doing that "for fun"?

JohnB445 said:

I asked AI about forgiveness, it said it's a good thing, but not good to forgive those who are not remorseful, and who are still malicious.

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Hi John, I'm still doing my best to wrap my mind around Ai, but it's hard to do so because, unlike the search engines of old, how Ai answers what we ask it seems to change daily (so, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in what it tells you, not just yet anyway).

That said, I'm surprised that it told you what it did, to ~not~ forgive those who remain remorseful/those who have not asked to be forgiven, IOW. Could the way that you questioned your Ai have given it the sense that you were looking for a Biblical answer to your question?

Whether it did or did not, the answer that it gave you could certainly be understood as coming directly from the Bible, because it was the Lord Jesus Himself who gave us the following commands concerning forgiveness,


So, why do you think that Jesus gave us these commands, particularly the ones above about 1) rebuking those who sin against us and then 2) withholding forgiveness from them until they chose to repent and ask to be forgiven?

Do you think that withholding forgiveness in this way can be understood as a benefit and/or a blessing of some kind to one or both parties, and if so, how?

JohnB445 said:

I would find it hard to forgive those people, and very hard to forgive someone who took pleasure in hurting me.

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@eleos1954 mentioned, "attitudinal forgiveness", and I think that is an important stance for a Christian to adopt, that of always being "ready" to forgive someone, because once someone has done that the ball is back in your court and the next step that needs to be taken is yours.

There is much more to consider (including your concern about what we should do in the case of violent, life-changing sins, like rape and murder), but this is enough for now

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - finally, one thing that you may want to figure out is the reason, purpose or endgame that each side has for teaching the kind of forgiveness that they do, because I believe that doing so will shine a very bright light on all of this for you!

it helps for me to go to church. I may not be friends with a lot of them but I am cordial with a lot. Church people treat me decently. But friends are more rare.

The Liturgist said:

If the concept was important to salvation, it would have appeared in the Nicene Creed, the Apostles’ Creed or the Athanasian Creed and in the writings of the early church fathers.

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This is where we're just not going to agree because when I read scripture, I see something differently and don't trust in any of that ^. I can agree with the statements, but I don't form my beliefs around those statements.

Freth said:

Noticeably absent in this declaration is tradition. In fact, Jesus warned against tradition.

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This is false.

The same saint you’re quoting, St. Paul, endorsed tradition explicitly in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 1 Coirnthians 11:2, and indeed in 2 Thessalonians 3:5 St. Paul tells us to avoid those who reject the Apostolic tradition.

Christ our True God, in the context of the pericopde you’re quoting, is not condemning Christian tradtion, which was received from Him, and includes such important things as the contents of the New Testament, the Nicene Creed, the doctrine of the Trinity, the rejection of Pelagianism and certain other misreadings of the New Testament such as Docetism, but rather, a specific tradition of the Pharisees.

The Pharisees had a belief in a man-made tradition, one specific part of which is referred to here, which contradicted the Holy Tradition of the Prophets which by the time of Christ few believed in (St. John the Baptist being one example, St. Symeon another, St. Lazarus another, St. Joseph of Arimathea, another, and which was rejected by the Sadducees and other Jews (but the Sadducees also rejected a belief in eternal life, which the Pharisees correctly believed in, so each group was in error in its own particular way, since they had rejected the Holy Tradition of Moses in favor of their own man-made traditions).

If Christ rejected all tradition, then St. Paul would not have commanded us to follow the Apostolic tradition in 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, or to avoid those who reject it in 2 Thessalonians 3:5 (on which basis we avoid fellowship with Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses).

I have a problem with hermeneutics that selectively quote the Apostles and demand we read some verses in a literal manner, applying as broadly as possible, while rejecting a literal interpretation of other verses, for example, John 6:53-55.

And I am not alone on this. The relelentless criticism of traditional churches is extremely hurtful to members of this site who are pious and devout Christians, members such as my excellent Lutheran friends @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis and dear @Ain't Zwinglian , my dear Anglican friends @Jipsah @PloverWing @seeking.IAM and ShaneR, and my pious co-religionists in the Orthodox Church @prodromos @FenderTL5 @jas3 , and my gallant Roman Catholic friends such as @Xeno.of.athens and @RileyG and @chevyontheriver , all of whom have over the years been so kind to me, even as other members have questioned my faith, or accused me of teaching false doctrine, or said unpleasant things, because, for example, I use an Orthodox icon of our Lord and the Theotokos as my avatar.

it is driven by a false dichotomy of Roman Catholicism vs. radical Restorationism, a kind of extreme anti-traditional Christianity that opposes the teachings of Martin Luther, John Wesley, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer and the other actual leaders of the Protestant Reformation, and even those of the Radical Reformation and the early Baptists. Historically, Restorationism originated in the 19th century, and some Restorationists embraced tradition, whereas others rejected it, but all shared the belief that the doctrines of the early church had been forgotten and needed to be “restored.”

David Hunter said:

I'm back with another Sermon on the Mount Series, and this time we'll look at what Jesus says about knowing a tree by its fruit! And... the most scariest words He spoke...​

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Thanks for including the info on the "Christmas Groove".

I found a link to the livestream event ...
will be watching tonite at 7pm!