Hentenza said:

Paul was indeed quoting portions of the OT and he used these quotes to make the point. Again, if Paul was defending the law by quoting the OT then why did Jesus redeemed the Christian from the curse of the law? If Christ redeemed us from the curse if the law by becoming a curse Himself (as the OT states) then why should the Christian go back to the curse if the law?

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By the Blood of Jesus He took that curse for us, but not everyone accepts His free gift because they love their sins John 3:19-21, more than they love Jesus to bring them to Him and help one to forsake their sins (turn from) Pro 28:13 1 John1:9 and walk a new life with Christ abiding in Him, keeping His commandments through love and faith and His power John 14:15-18 John 15:10 not different ones, the same ones 1John2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22

Ophiolite said:

Another successful flight. Need I say more?

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Perhaps. What constitutes "success" these days?

ThatRobGuy said:

Sure, just some examples:

Trump to nominate RFK Jr. as Health and Human Services secretary

How are you quantifying "safe"? The risk of any medical intervention (ranging from brain surgery all the way down to taking a tylenol) is never going to be 0%. How do we qualify it; if no scientific studies have been done on what the risks are? Second, the largest longitudinal study ever done...

www.christianforums.com

Where is James Comey's mugshot?

Just curious - Trumps was out incredibly fast and pasted all over - where is Comey's?

www.christianforums.com

InfoWars’ Alex Jones Is a ‘Performance Artist'

www.christianforums.com

Tennessee Law Signed Allowing Parents to Excuse Students From Lessons With LGBTQ+ Content

Defining hate has always been an issue among politicians and activist groups to divide and gain power. As such, it has no place being taught or redefined in the classroom. It's also good to say what we mean, and call things what they are.

www.christianforums.com

Police investigate after Satanic Temple holiday display at New Hampshire State House vandalized hours after unveiling

The statue, which the city sanctioned after explaining it was allowed because of the First Amendment, was unveiled Saturday night and was damaged shortly after. Visitors to the State House on Tuesday could see a Christmas tree, nativity scene and Bill of Rights display, but the Satanic Temple...

www.christianforums.com

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Well congratulations on correcting their factual errors (they sure do make a lot) and challenging their Christian nationalism.

bèlla said:

This is a thread for oddities. Things that make you go hmm, what or worse. Enjoy!

Millennial Mom Opts Out Of Homework All Year​

She wrote the teacher a letter and informed her they were taking the year off from homework and hoped she’d be okay with it. Who does that??? The mom is in the first portion and the remainder discusses student performance and the numbers are bad and the comments are worse. We’re in trouble.

Login to view embedded media

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Not sure what her reason is, but have you seen the kind of math kids have to do today? The process is just silly.

However, after watching the video a little bit, that reason for not doing homework is just as silly.

so whatever, thanks for sharing.

bèlla said:

I tracked the buying habits of Whole Foods shoppers during that period in affluent areas in my vicinity. The store in my area had little left beyond condiments which was the motivation for the project. We had a healthy larder but the sparseness forced me to make it more extensive. I remember videos filmed at Walmart where areas were roped off that included gardening supplies. That was a little unsettling.

~bella

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I do recall things my brain dismissed as luxury activities requiring proof of vaccination. But nothing like buying groceries or household essentials.

Prayers everything goes as smoothly as possible and that God grants you peace and comfort.

Hans Blaster said:

It makes a little more sense than I thought it would, but it is still rather confusing. "right" as in "acceptable behavior" isn't really something you can "has a". It is something you can do (do what is right).

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Do what is right still works. "Acceptable behavior" is in the passive voice and does not work. "Acceptable" to whom?

Let's stay with your do what is right. Do humans have rights? For example, humans have an intellect that seeks the truth. Humans (normal) desire truth to satisfy the needs of their intellect. Good so far?

o_mlly said:

Where in your "nested hierarchies" do you place the platypus?

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Right next to the crocoduck of course. Where were you 20 years ago when this topic was addressed? The Kent Hovind playbook is long since debunked.

No one argues that a platypus is actually a bird because it has a duck-like bill, or a reptile because it lays eggs. It has a well established position in taxonomy as a monotreme.

Alright well, I mean this is just sad. I'll be here if there ever is a revival. The ID movement is just a shadow of its former self. Some of us remember. It seems as though the rest will be lost in history.

Sinners will certainly face judgment.

Tinker Grey said:

The only moral authority for a government to cite is that which society has given it.

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That's more an orientation for Legal Instrumentalism rather than the Rule of Law. I prefer the Rule of Law ideal for American democratic republicanism and leave the Legal Instrumentalism to the Communists outside of the U.S.

Valletta said:

The overall fate and well-being of people is what drives conservatives. It is hard for this conservative to understand the lack of concern for the worse-off of the victims of this terrible unnecessary human tragedy, the victims of violence and human trafficking. Securing the border and mass deportation was what Trump ran on, the debate took place and the American people have spoken through the election results.

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He ran on deportation and is serving us deportation with gratuitous cruelty, which is obviously what his "base" wanted all along.

After two years of war, Israel and Hamas agreed to a ceasefire in which the remaining living hostages the terror group abducted during its Oct. 7, 2023, surprise invasion of southern Israel were released on Monday.

Many celebrated what is believed to be the start of a more lasting peace in the region, with President Donald Trump addressing the Israeli Knesset in response to the agreement between Israel and Hamas, which has controlled the Gaza Strip for nearly two decades.

“Today, the skies are calm, the guns are silent, the sirens are still, and the sun rises on a holy land that is finally at peace, a land and a region that will live, God willing, in peace for all eternity,” Trump told the Knesset on Monday.

“The forces of chaos, terror, and ruin that have plagued the region for decades now stand weakened, isolated, and totally defeated. … Now it is time to translate these victories against terrorists on the battlefield into the ultimate prize of peace and prosperity for the entire Middle East.”

Continued below.

Documents Allege a Federal Agent at Portland ICE Threatened to Shoot an Ambulance Driver

Feds delayed medics who had come to pick up an injured protester. Then, according to confidential incident reports, the agents became aggressive.

Strong in Him said:

Nope - they're not my buddies and I'm not deceiving anyone.

I said that when he got to the moon, Neil Armstrong read from Genesis 1.

You replied:

All of that agrees with my statement that Genesis was read "they only read this and stopped before they got to this".
The context was "Genesis was read from the moon". So it's not unreasonable to suggest that if you agree that Genesis was read, then you also agree it was read from the moon.

If you only agreed with part of my statement; if you were saying yes, Genesis was read but it wasn't when they got to the moon it was while they were sitting in a fake rocket - you should have said so.

No problem.
If you are going to persist with the judgement that I am deceiving people when you haven't understood what I wrote, I probably won't want to talk to you either.

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You are going to be in good company. He doesn’t talk to me either.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

How is any of these related to what's happening in Gaza?

I am a critic of President Trump, much like many others. At present, I am expressing criticism across several threads regarding some of his policies. However, this does not mean that I am unable to acknowledge his achievements when warranted. We should not be so narrow-minded as to withhold credit from President Trump when he makes positive contributions, simply because we may disagree with him on other issues.

Yesterday marked a positive development in Israel and Gaza. President Trump played a significant role in facilitating this outcome, and it is appropriate to acknowledge his contributions.

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He is not a peacemaker if he wages war against American citizens in DC, Chicago and Portland, for starters. My comments are in regard to peacemaker.
BTW Biden arranged the release of 6 times as many hostages and had begun to build a dock on the Mediterranean so that Palestinian food relief could not be blocked, etc.

Why Billionaire Companies Are BUYING Up Farmland in Ohio

This video was produced by a real estate agent in Ohio who confirmed what I posted earlier about farmland. He shares what’s happening locally and how the land is being used for data centers and related services.

~bella

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Michie said:

Turkey has been deporting hundreds of foreign Christians and blocking their return by labeling them national security threats, according to an international legal advocacy group.

ADF International Legal Officer Lidia Rieder told a gathering of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe's Human Dimension Conference in Warsaw, Poland, on Monday that such designations are issued through internal security codes and have left local Protestant communities without leadership.

Since 2020, at least 200 foreign Christian workers and their families, totaling around 350 people, have been barred from the country under internal security codes N-82 and G-87, ADF International reports.

Continued below.

Turkey labels Christians ‘national security threat’ to deport them, rights group warns

Turkey has been deporting hundreds of foreign Christians and blocking their return by labeling them national security threats, according to an international legal advocacy group

www.christianpost.com

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I can see why they're labeled as such. .......... 'cuz with the presence of Christians in their country, someone might turn their back on the teachings of Mohammed and instead turn to Jesus Christ, the Resurrected Son of God, as Lord and Savior............ and those Turks can't allow that kind of 'shirk.'

Benaiah468 said:

In their latest post, they declared the death of Palestinian internet star Saleh al-Jafarawi, known as ‘Mr. FAFO’, a ‘martyrdom operation.’ He was killed in fighting between Hamas and the Doghmoush militia, two rival armed groups vying for control and money sources in Gaza.

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For weeks, sources in Gaza have been reporting serious clashes between Hamas security forces and armed family groups.

He was the digital poster boy for a deadly ideology, now he lies dead in the streets of Gaza City.

The man who presented himself on social media as a ‘reporter of the resistance’ and blurred the lines between journalism, propaganda and self-promotion died by the same violence he had glorified for years.

Aljafarawi was not a neutral observer, but a digital fighter in the service of a terrorist organisation. His videos from the ruins of Gaza, in which he presented himself as a ‘survivor,’ were carefully composed stagings. Time and again, he suddenly reappeared after allegedly deadly attacks, from his hospital bed, his head bandaged, smiling at the camera. Millions watched his clips, believed his stories, shared his messages. For many Western viewers, he became a symbol of the ‘suffering in Gaza.’ For Hamas, he was a weapon in the information war.

Gaza is sinking into internal "Palestinian" violence, and the death of the Hamas influencer marks a new stage of decay.

Saleh Aljafarawi knew how to turn the war into a stage. He posed with children amid the ruins, wearing a ‘PRESS’ vest and the smile of someone who appeared to be fearless. His message was simple: we are the victims, Israel is the perpetrator. But this portrayal was as manipulative as it was transparent. Behind each of his appearances was the goal of morally discrediting Israel and obscuring Hamas' role as the perpetrator.

The fact that he himself has now been killed by Palestinians finally destroys the façade. It is the image of a system collapsing in on itself, an organisation that can offer neither protection nor loyalty, not even to its own propagandists.

For Israel and the international community, the death of ‘Mr FAFO’ remains a symbol: Hamas' violence has no direction, no moral framework and no goal other than self-preservation. The people who serve it are devoured by it. And while the organisation continues to paint a picture of ‘just resistance’, its tools and faces lie in the dust, shot, forgotten, exposed.

I'm prepping for a first: a PCUSA (Presbyterian Church) called me recently and discussed having me come to do some services for them. Their pastor rather suddenly quit several weeks ago after his adult son committed suicide. Then the local presbytery came in and didn't really have much support to offer the congregation. But their organist knew of me from one of the Lutheran churches I go to. So she told them something like, "There's this pastor guy who does services for a bunch of different churches and he's pretty good and he's local." I talked to one of their elders on the session and we agreed I will not do any communion services (1st Sunday of the month) but the average Sunday service is not really far off from Antecommunion.

I'm quite excited because this church actually has a whole bunch of kids. They told me the ASA is 25 adults and 17 kids. They are right near the district line so a few may go to school with my daughters but most go to the bigger city school district nearby. It's a curious phenomenon of a low income neighborhood where the parents drop the kids off for basically free childcare of a Sunday morning but don't come to church themselves. So much potential here.

Bad news for Miss Letita Jamews.

Servus said:

The Democrats are still continuing to bury themselves.

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Then they really have nothing left to lose by keeping this going.

This is just the tip of the ice berg.

Our days start before 7am where we go for breakfast before making a 1 mile walk to Be Well.
We usually make the trip in less than 20 minutes and with the students we have a short devotional and sermon before the students begin their classes for the day.
We have had opportunities to share with several of the students and we find them to be inspiring in their search for truth, meaning and following their calling in serving in the Lord's work.
One of them left his plans on becoming a doctor to serve as God would have him do. Another is doing the same, and he helps by playing the guitar and singing during devotionals. I've been giving him guitar lessons and sharing things with him.
I feel inspired because it reminds me of my early days in the church so many years ago.

stevevw said:

As far as I understand on this particular measure which is from the UnChartedX site is in both guage sensor and CT scanning from memory. Its in 3d as its talking about cyclinricity on the opening to determine axis B which is the horizontal center line of that cyclinder down the vase.

So the specific widest point on the vase that number is measuring for concentricity is based on a 3D reference point which is axis B the center line of the cyclinder running down the vase.

The vases tested at Petrie museum are from Petries digs in the late 19th and early 20th century. Most vases would be from Petries digs as he was the pioneer and has whole museums full of stuff.

Thats why it takes time to ensure everything is done properly. They started testing vases and came up against the providence issue and then Karoly began to test vases at museums with good providence only this year. So more needs doing. But so far very interesting results.

Yeah I would expect all areas need to be consulted. But as mentioned the aim is to test vases which have already been verified by archeologists like at museums.

Why. What I mean by formal is that if you notice the tests and analysis is written like a paper with method, results, discussion and conclusion. Proper tests are done and the process is explained. All the steps are laid out that will support the conclusion so that people can read it and check it.

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Apart from Max, where are the witten papers by Karoly, the Artifact Foundation and Chris Dunn?

stevevw said:

Its sort of on the level of a scientific paper that is submitted to peer review. Except its just not being submitted to peer review if you know what I mean. Rather than on a social media site where you don't have to follow that rigor and formality.

I don't know. Thats why I keep going back to the conclusions and summaries. They explicitly state that the findings show the precision in some vases to be on par with modern machining and lathing. I must have said this 10 times now. REgardless of all these objections they still clearly contradict the claim that these vases are not on par with modern machined vases on some sort of lathe.

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stevevw said:

They all, every independent research group all say this. Like I asked other posters. Are they lying, or misrepresenting the data. Or just so dumb that they don't see these obvious mistakes.

Are these deviations so big that these researchers are just blind that they cannot see what you see. This is what it comes down to. Your and other peoples opinion as opposed to these researchers.

OK fair enough. Then perhaps we should dedicate as much time on scrutinising those making analysis on this thread to the same level as what has been thrust upon the researchers. Questioning their credibility, wanting to know every detail about their qualifications and questions their qualifications as to whether they are most suitable for the testing. I don;t see any consistency here.

See this is a prime example of the inconsistency applied by skeptics. You and I know to what extent skeptics have been subjecting these researchers to. I can go back and show you if you want. But all sorts of demeaning names and questioning every little thing. I don't see that level of scrutiny on those objecting like yourself.

No one has hounded you for every qualification and then questioning whether you have the expertise. You don't question others on this thread to that level when they make their little claims and analysis. You just accept them as credible without asking to see their credentials. This reflects the inconsistency and bias.

I think this is dishonest. To begin with the researchers article is done like a peer reviewed paper with the abstract, method, analysis, discussion and conclusion. Thats the formal way scientfific articles are done. I don't see any of that on this thread. Or are you now lowering the bar on this thread and allowing parts there of as equivelant.

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Apart from Max, where are the witten papers by Karoly, the Artifact Foundation and Chris Dunn? I like Max's papers, I just feel that they would be better if they would go through peer-review. How big a problem is the lack of provenance? Why did he use that particular quality metric? Are there others? Why is no of the Petrie vases from his analysis in the precise class? When others sort them into their precise class (why is there a difference?).

stevevw said:

They simply don't even look the same or have anywhere near as much info. Surely your not saying the complaints about one part of one a specific measure represents the entire article and testing of the whole vase. Where is this 3 or 4 page article with all these steps lol.

The point is I can say "it is a fallacy" just like you have your opinion. If you can say it without qualification then so can I and it can keep on going. If you say that remarks on this social media are good enough and are equivelant to a 5 or 10 page formal test and analysis. Then anyone can say anything and it counts as a formal scientific article. Its a crazy way to do acience.

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Sure, keep saying it if you feel like it. I'm not saying what we do here is science, I'm saying that neither Karoly, Max, the Artifact Foundation, Chris Dunn or we are doing science right now. We are all just discussing the data they have put on the table.

stevevw said:

But what you don't realise in saying that their expertise has not been shown. I can just say your expertise has not been shown for you to make such a complaint lol. I can say I don't trust your credentials. If this social media site is equivelant to a formal science article then we can say anything and its classed as science.

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I'm not saying what we do here is science, I'm saying that neither Karoly, Max, the Artifact Foundation, Chris Dunn or we are doing science right now. We are all just discussing the data they have put on the table. I want peer review for it to be science, what is so hard to understand about that?

stevevw said:

Wow, thats all I am saying but its like its the hardest thing for some to admit. Just to admit these vases are out of the ordinary for that time. You have added that perhaps a wheel or lathe was around 1,000 years before the orthodox story tells us.

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Without good provenance we don't even know if the data is relevant.

stevevw said:

Thats better than pretending that these vases don't exist. But it does acknowledge how we have to somehow adjust things ie either they are fakes, the measures are wrong or the tech must have been there earlier than we think.

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Only if they are correctly measured and the provenance is good.

stevevw said:

Which all supports what I have been saying all along. Which was that simple these vases are out of place artifacts. It may be they are fakes, or that the tech was there earlier than we thought. But please don't pretend the question and mystery does not exist one way or another.

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Or the methodologies are not the best, there are many possibilities. The provenance question for the precise class is a big unknown, at least as Max uses the precise class.

stevevw said:

You have come closest because you at least acknowledge that they exist and come from that time and that they are at least precise enough to have required a wheel which is like a lathe.

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I've never said they require it. I think Olga vases could be good enough if you had literally thousands of vasemakers making vases for most of their lives.

stevevw said:

Of note I pointed out that these engineers are also specialists in precision tooling up to the aerospace precision. Dunn in particular over 50 years in machining, tool making from the basic laths of the 60s to modern CNC for NASA. So they know metrology as that is a key part in tolerances.

Do you honestly think a expert precision tool maker could not do both the measurements and the scientific study of measurements as part of the same expertise in making precision tools. In fact Dunn makes the machines that make the precision tools.

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It's not a question of if he could, has he done any research in metrology? This is normally the part where you point out his articles.

stevevw said:

I only mentioned that as it sounds cool. But Max does all sorts of scanning and testing. Thats what he specialises in. Half thee reason he is doing the vases is because he already has an equipped lab. Why would he have the equipment and not know how to use it lol.

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That is not supported by his scientific output.

stevevw said:

I would say Christ Dunn, Alex Dunn, Nick Sierra and Chris Knight have the most expertise being machinists and precision tool makers. Petrie was a machinist and archeologists. But when it comes to precision its a machinist and precision tooling. The best as far as practical experience would be a Stone mason and any Stone mason will tell you that these vases could not be done by hand.

Then why have not you questions others on this thread about their credentials as much as you have these researchers.

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Because they are not arguing that their objections are the final word. They are highlighting what they see as problems, then the researchers should go back and do some additional analysis. This is what happens in peer-review but since they never publish in any journals it remains just conjecture.

stevevw said:

Actually they speculate and they are never specific. They have too as the evidence shows these vases were lathed. But the fact is its orthodoxy that the potters wheel and bore stick type lathe did not come in until the old kingdom around 2600BC. A 1,000 years before these vases.

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Given that we don't even know the provenance of any vase in Max's precise class (which is populated only by vases from Matt Bealls collection, Precision and Classification of Predynastic Egyptian Stone Vessels: REVISED), I think that it is premature to invoke machining on par with modern machining to explain anything (this is a statement about my opinion).

stevevw said:

But its also that even if we try and force fit that some sort of lath was around. It would be such a basic one that would not be stable and have tight tolerances. So either way these vases exceed the tech available.

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Do you have a reference for that? This isn't a normal scientific statement, "they look to good therefore it must be unknown method X". Find the tool that match those toolmarks, then you can make a statement like "it's probable that these marks where made with this tool". Hence, why I think they should be out doing digs.

stevevw said:

But I keep saying your seeing these vases in isolation. When you understand that there are many examples of advanced tech and knowledge across a variety of works you begin to sort of expect this and not try to deny it. It forms a worldwide pattern that makes too strong a case.

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Every instance of advanced tech and knowledge will need to go through the same tedious process with editors and peer review for me to take it serious, I'm sorry that's just the modern scientific process. You can't build a holistic argument if you haven't first shown that the parts are relevant.

stevevw said:

Yet you make claims like you an expert and don't subject yourself to the same scrutiny. You just questioned that the researchers were not qualified enough. But neither are you to make the determination.

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I'm not an expert and any data I have highlighted have come from the researcher themselves.

stevevw said:

The point is you can write in and dispute the findings. Thats how its designed. To be able to down load the files and do it yourself and either find fault or find new discoveries in the works like Unsigned.io did with the geometry.

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Whilst highlighting that they don't believe the OG vase in its current form to be from ancient Egypt.

stevevw said:

At least its got a site and base to collect and compare.

Ok and I agree that its not just peer review but more tests of more vases in museums. More repeated tests of the same vases by the same method and by independent testers. THis is ongoing and the testers admit this. But the findings so far are interesting.

Well thats officially as there have been may 10 plus. A few single tests such as the OG has been done around 6 times or more. A couple of vases replicated by modern CNC and compared, and a lot of guage testing as this is easy. But more museum tests are needed.

Yes I just mentioned that. Like I said its relatively new and more of a data base is needed.

I don't think you realise. For example when you say "I don't believe that measure means what is normally used in 3D tolerance specifications more than in name" or No, I view the analysis that have been presented in this thread as on par with what is presented by the Artifact Foundation and Max.

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These are statements about ME and my opinions, you do realise I have first-person access to my own thought processes?

stevevw said:

Just these two and theres more just in this post but also in others are making a unsupported claim as well as one that needs qualification as to what expertise you have to know these things. You may have this but you have never qualified this and just assumed it holds enough factual weight to stand on its own.

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So what is it in those two statements that you mean I need to support?

stevevw said:

Especially the first one which would require some step by step explanation and context. Put it this way I am suspect of your expertise just by the fact you say you "don't believe". So this is clearly an unqualified claim.

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It's a claim about me! I didn't say "They are using circularity in a non-standard way". Even though I think I can argue that point if you would like? The normal way to report circularity according to ISO 1101 (see below) is different than what they do. So to use the term circularity in their case is (slightly) misleading. So a quality measure dependent on circularity and concentricity is a bit unfortunate, as circularity sounds like it is one thing but they actually mean something else.

stevevw said:

So imagine all the others from other posters where they have made claims or objected and never gave any qualification of their expertise.

Yet as a total I think we have spent half this last part of the thread on scrutinising the researchers. While accepting out of hand the qualifications and expertise of the objecters.

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Stop, making it sound as the researchers are victims in this. If they wanted to they could have published their findings in an appropriate journal. They want this kind of attention, that why they present it as they do.

johansen said:

In a repeat of her past experience, her lawsuit alleges, staff members told her they could not provide the care she sought due to the fetal heartbeat. She was able to access care at another hospital, her complaint says, but experienced sepsis and heavy blood loss in the process.

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We don't know what care the Catholic hospital offered but she claims "they could not provide the care she sought due to the fetal heartbeat". If the care she sought was a direct abortion of her living child then of course the Catholic hospital guidelines forbid that act.

If the non-Catholic hospital preformed a direct abortion then blood loss is to be expected and perhaps subsequent sepsis as well.