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Had Mary guessed about resurrection ?
- Christian Scriptures
- 15 Replies
In the infancy narratives, the Bible presents both things happening at once:
- Mary and Joseph act with the very normal protective love of parents.
- God is also actively guiding events so Jesus lives to fulfill his mission.
What the text actually emphasizes
In Matthew 2, Joseph doesn’t “reason it out” from a long-range plan about the cross. He’s repeatedly warned in dreams (“take the child… flee to Egypt… Herod is about to search for the child to destroy him”), and he obeys quickly. That’s the narrative focus: obedient protection under divine direction.
So the flight isn’t described as “they didn’t care about feelings” or “they were already thinking about the cross.” It reads like: God warns; Joseph protects; the child is preserved.
Did they flee because of feelings, or because of “God’s plan”?
Most Christian readings would say: both, but not in the same way.
- On their side (human level): they protected Jesus because that’s what faithful parents do—fear, urgency, love, responsibility. Those “protecting feelings” are not treated as a distraction from God’s will; they’re part of how God normally works through people.
- On God’s side (divine level): God wills that Jesus not die as an infant at Herod’s hand, because Jesus’ death is meant to happen at the appointed time, in the appointed way—publicly, voluntarily, and as part of the saving work the Gospels later describe.
So God’s will isn’t “use their feelings instead of his plan,” but “use their love and obedience within his plan.”
Were Mary and Joseph already thinking about the cross?
The texts don’t suggest they had a fully formed, detailed concept like: “We must save him now so he can die on the cross later.”
They do have hints, though:
- In Luke 2, Simeon’s prophecy includes both Jesus’ destiny and a coming sorrow for Mary (“a sword will pierce your own soul”), which Christians often connect to the passion.
- Mary “treasures” and ponders, but that’s not the same as having the whole script in her head.
A simple way to put it:
- They knew enough to obey and to trust.
- God knew (and intended) the whole arc.
The core theological idea
Classic Christian theology calls this providence through secondary causes: God accomplishes his purposes through real human decisions, real emotions, real obedience—not by bypassing them.
So yes: it’s very reasonable (and very “biblical”) to say God intended Mary and Joseph’s protective care to be one of the means by which Jesus was preserved—without implying they were coldly calculating “his doom on the cross” from the start. ( chat GPT
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Proposed U.S. law would require fathers to financially support pregnant moms
- By RileyG
- One Bread, One Body - Catholic
- 1 Replies
Hey! I’m all for it! As the old saying goes, it takes two to tango
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Zions New Children
- By eclipsenow
- Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum
- 155 Replies
You jump around between verses like a hyperactive grasshopper - without slowing down and considering the context of each author.
This is a great example of eisegesis.
Eisegesis
Eisegesis is the practice of interpreting a text by reading one's own ideas, biases, or agenda into it, rather than drawing out the author's intended meaning, essentially "leading in" instead of "leading out".It's a subjective approach where the interpreter forces the text to support a pre-existing belief, often by ignoring context, language, and cultural background, leading to misinterpretation and distorted understanding, especially when applied to scripture.
Biblical Theology must be done
Biblical Theology must be done when reading the Old Testament. We need to slow down, and see what each book actually has to say in the context of the author’s culture, historical concerns of the period, and where we are in the broader unfolding plan of God?EACH ERA has its own concerns
Have the first humans just sinned? Has the world been ‘uncreated’ and ‘recreated’ in the chiastic structure of Noah’s flood? Is it before God’s promises to Abraham that God’s people would live God’s way in God’s land?
Is it after - during the time of slavery in Egypt?
Is it before or after the great Passover rescue?
Is it when Moses is giving his pep talk to Israel in Deuteronomy - warning them before they even enter the land about how they will be exiled and taken OUT of the land if they ever abandon God? But even then - there is hope of a small remnant returning!
Is it during the period of the judges?
The downward spiralling into sin of the period of the Kings?
Is it before or after the building of the temple?
Is it before the Assyrians cart off Israel into captivity?
Before the Babylonians do the same to Judah - and horrifically - sack and destroy the temple?
Is it just after the Persian Empire let any Israelite or Jew who wanted to go home return to rebuild the temple?
Is it before Jesus?
Is it after Jesus?
Before or after Pentecost?
EACH BOOK has its own structure.
What is the structure of the book? How do different sections of the book fit together, and relate to each other and the historical concerns of the era?
What would the original audience have made of the text?
Was it encouraging or rebuking or a bit of both?
Was it new information, or reminding them of existing prophesies of the past?
What was in the surrounding literature of the time?
Only after investigating all these questions of Biblical Era and Each Book’s Structure can we begin to see how the promises of God are viewed by each author.
EACH TESTAMENT has its own concerns and structures.
Then we have to as, how does the New Testament address this issue in any way?
Are they borrowing the images and symbols of the past to remind us of something?
Or are they informing us of the fulfilment of something from the past to challenge our assumptions?
(Jesus did this A LOT - as did Paul!)
Are they using Hebrew apocalyptic symbols from the past in new ways to challenge our thinking about our present reality this side of the gospel, between Jesus Resurrection and his Return?
John did THIS a lot!
Only after we have investigated ALL these questions do we get to ask, “How might this Old Testament message speak to us today, through the lens of the New Testament?”
Just going "That sounds to me like... blah blah blah…” is utterly unacceptable.
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