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Landon Caeli · 2025-11-13T12:05:33-0600

JosephZ said:
This will probably come as a shock to you, but Byzantine and Jewish cultures had nearly identical rules during the Early Middle Ages. When Islam came along, Muslims continued what Jews, Christians, Romans, and Persians were already practicing. Much of what we find shocking by today's standards were the cultural norms of that time, and they were shared across Abrahamic and secular societies.

A comparison of religious codes during the Early Middle Ages relating to the injury of a child/minor bride during intercourse.

Judaism

If a man has intercourse with his minor wife and causes a wound that joins the passages, he is liable for all five payments: damage, pain, healing, unemployment, and shame.

Christianity

If a husband, through excessive intercourse, causes grave injury to his wife’s body, especially if she is a minor, he must provide medical care and may be separated from her.

Islam

If the husband has intercourse with a minor wife and causes her an injury that joins the vagina and anus, he is financially liable for her dowry and medical treatment, and she may seek divorce from a judge.

This is a repulsive, and disgusting conversation.

Christsfreeservant · 2025-11-13T12:04:21-0600

The Church Under Fire

Chapter Five

Now Faithful to the Calling

May 27, 2023

I am still reading in the book of Acts. Recap: Paul was giving his defense to King Agrippa, and so he relayed to him how he had been on the road to Damascus to persecute and perhaps put to death even more Christians (followers of Jesus Christ) when Jesus met him in a vision while he was on his way. Jesus spoke to him audibly, though not visibly, and there Paul (Saul at that time) received his life calling from the Lord to open spiritually blinded eyes, so they may turn from darkness (sin) to light (Christ) and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Jesus Christ. Then he said this:

“Therefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. For this reason the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me. To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass: that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.” (Acts 26:19-23 ESV)

Do you know what your life calling of God is? Are you being steadfast and faithful to that calling? Now we are all called to holy living and to leave our lives of sin behind us to follow Jesus in obedience to his commands under the New Covenant. But the Lord has assigned us specific callings and ministries, and he has gifted us accordingly so that we can serve him faithfully in those callings and in those areas of ministry. For these are our “body parts” within the whole of the body of Christ, his church.

Now most of you probably know this but let me say here that if we answer the call of Jesus Christ, not only to be his possession and to follow him wherever he leads us, but to fulfill the very specific purpose the Lord Jesus has for our lives individually, this may not go well for us in many respects. And Paul’s life is a great example of what I mean here, and so is the life of Jesus. For Jesus told us that if we follow him with our lives that we are going to be hated and persecuted as he was hated and persecuted.

Especially if you are telling people that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance, you are not going to be well liked and well received even in the Christian culture in America. For so many professing Christians are believing lies which are telling them outright, or which are giving them the impression that they do not have to repent of their sins, that they don’t have to surrender their lives to Jesus Christ, that they don’t have to obey the Lord, and that no works (deeds) are required of them by God whatsoever.

But let me get back to the subject of our specific callings of God to special areas of ministry that God prepared in advance for us to do them. Paul was not disobedient to the vision and neither should we be disobedient, either to the calling that God has on all of our lives collectively, or to the particular callings he has on each of our lives individually. But then we should be prepared that we are going to be persecuted, even by others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, and even by pastors and elders of church fellowships.

And in being faithful to the calling of God on my life, he has been leading me to share some of my own “Paul” experiences. Only those who are opposing me are not Jews, but many of them are those who claim faith in Jesus, and some are even pastors and elders of church congregations. Now, like Paul said, if what I was doing was wrong, if it was evil, and if it was sinful and disobedient and rebellious, then I would accept their discipline. But if they are disciplining me for obeying the Lord, according to the Scriptures, and if they are judging me by their own standards, then that is wrong.

My “Paul” Experiences

The year was 2004. My husband and I were training to be church planters under the Christian & Missionary Alliance (same denomination as A.W. Tozer). I was training for my consecration as an official worker of the C&MA and my husband was training for his ordination to be a pastor of our small group which was meeting in our home. It was now September and we were invited to their annual official workers prayer conference. But my husband hurt his back and could not go, so he encouraged me to go without him.

And the Lord started speaking to my heart the moment I walked into that first meeting, for I was a few minutes late due to car trouble. And the messages I heard at that conference via the speakers and via my quiet times with the Lord just spoke directly to my heart in a very powerful way.

The messages spoke to me and to my heart like they were right from the mouth of God to me specifically. The messages said, “Preach the Word of God, not the teachings of man.” “Listen to God, hear what he is saying, and then obey him.” “You were appointed by God as a herald and a teacher of true faith.” “Give your ministry over to God – it is not yours. It is his.” “God may have something else for you to do that you have not even thought of.”

“Write down what God shows you and then wait on him to bring it about.” “What you are going through is much bigger than you can imagine.” “NOW is your time! For such a time as this you were placed upon the earth.” “The church is in crisis – the crisis of Supremacy. It is indistinguishable between the lives of evangelical Christians and the world. We need to get back to the basics – we need to put our focus on Jesus and the cross of Christ instead of on the teachings of man.” Amen!

Since I was the only one there representing our small church plant, I was also invited to speak before a room full of pastors and other official workers of the C&MA, and before their district heads. And I just let the Holy Spirit lead me in what to say, for I was not prepared in advance that I was going to be asked to speak. And based upon what others were teaching at this conference, and what the Holy Spirit was speaking to my heart, I shared with them what the Lord was saying to me, from the Spirit within me.

When I went back to my chair, though, the wife of the district head over church plants said, “Well, that was the shortest-lived church plant.” Wow! But after the gathering was dismissed, and we went to lunch (or supper), I had maybe a fourth of the pastors there encourage me that what I said needed to be said. But they also recognized that it was the death of me, even though it was the right thing to say, and it was what needed to be said. But I was being led of the Holy Spirit, and there was nothing anti-biblical in what I shared, but it was fully supported by the Scriptures.

So, I got called to see the heads of the district, and they told me that I was not hearing from God, even though they had confessed that they were not actually listening to me speak, from what I recall. And so at that moment I had to make the decision to remain with the C&MA and to ignore God’s calling on my life, or to depart from the C&MA and to follow the Lord Jesus in obedience. I did the latter, and here I am today nearly 20 years later still answering that appointment by God to be one of his heralds in these last days before the return of Jesus Christ. And I have no regrets!

I Surrender All

Hymn lyrics by Judson W. Van De Venter, 1896
Music by Winfield S. Weeden, 1896

… Lo, we have left all, and have followed Thee. (Mark 10:28)

All to Jesus I surrender,
All to Him I freely give;
I will ever love and trust Him,
In His presence daily live.

All to Jesus I surrender,
Lord, I give myself to Thee;
Fill me with Thy love and power,
Let Thy blessing fall on me.

I surrender all,
I surrender all;
All to Thee, my blessed Savior,
I surrender all.

Link to whole book:

The Church Under Fire Book (edited).pdf

drive.google.com

Now Faithful to The Calling
An Original Work / May 27, 2023
Reposted on November 13, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Video recording of this post:

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concretecamper · 2025-11-13T12:02:17-0600

Always in His Presence said:
No, Tertullian (c. 155–c. 240 AD) did not mention purgatory in the sense of the later Catholic doctrine

Serious question, do you have a good comprehension of the English language. I never said he mentioned purgatory in the sense of the later Catholic doctrine.

This and other threads of false claims makes me believe you do not.

Christsfreeservant · 2025-11-13T12:01:28-0600

Delvianna said:
I'm so sorry to hear about your struggles and I pray the mass is non-cancerous and road to recovery is short. But I want to play devils advocate for a second because I think it's important. As followers of Christ, our lives are his, correct? That means that no matter what happens, we are in his hands. The Lord never promised us healing in this life, he promised us life in the next. The Lord never promised us complete protection, he warned us that some will be tested even until death, but no matter what we go through, we are to praise Him. So if the answer from the doctors is the worst possible scenario, have faith in Gods goodness, no matter what the outcome is because we know our faith will be rewarded. Again though, I do pray for your healing and recovery, if the Lord wills it.

Amen! Agreed! And thank you for sharing this, and thank you for the encouragement, and thank you for the prayers, too. Much appreciated! God bless you. Sue

CoreyD · 2025-11-13T12:00:41-0600

Job 33:6 said:
Yea sure.

So my thought was, Genesis 1 tells this aspect of history. And then chapter 2 continues that history. As opposed to retelling it. I'll go back and reread your post to see if I'm missing anything.

I agree that the YEC view of trees growing fast and the events of chapter 2 happening in a single day don't make any sense though.

I can help you speed up your journey.

Genealogy is the study of your family, from the distant past right up to the present day. Genealogy records are the historical sources that make this study possible, providing key details about your ancestry which allow you to piece together stories of past generations.

Genealogy records explained
There are many different types of genealogy records – each type contains different information
Genesis Chapter one is the events that takes place, in the beginning - six days of creation. Genesis 1:1
Genesis 2:1-3 the narration concludes the events...
1 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made.

Genesis 2:4 The narrator informs his reader that he is now going to give the history of those events in Genesis Chapter one.
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

He does not give the history in chronological order. Nor does he give every detail.
He is selective.
He starts by saying... (Genesis 2:5, 6
5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [d]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [e]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [f]surface of the ground.

That first statement even verifies it is a historical account.

Can you see why, or do you need help?

That's your homework to relocate your thinking cap.
I'll know if you find it by your response. No. I'm not giving you any more hints... yet..

Clare73 · 2025-11-13T11:59:27-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
I am a big believer when the Bible spells something out for us plainly, we need to believe.
This is what we are told is Truth in Scripture
Psa119:151 You are near, O Lord,
And all Your commandments are truth.

Clare73 said:
So we are to obey all his Levitical commandments?

SabbathBlessings said:

This verse doesn't say this.

Click to expand...

That's some pretty fancy foot-work.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-13T11:57:05-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
You are oversimplifying a complex issue. If Democrats created a single-payer health system that excluded transgender surgery or treatment, would conservatives then support it? I do think they would.

What if it excluded all forms of cosmetic surgery?

Hawkins · 2025-11-13T11:56:05-0600

Humans lack the ability to access truth directly. More often they acquire truth indirectly.

In terms of truth, there are roughly two camps of humans, one with extrememly small amount while the other the mass majority.
When you trust your own five senses, you joined the first camp of humans deemed as the eyewitnesses. When you are unable (as limited by human inability) to contact truth directly. You joined the second camp of humans deemed as the believers.

Even science works so. Do you know that black holes exist? You do. Do you have the evidence? You don't. Information (truth) functions as a piece of human testimony from eyewitnesses which we call them the scientists. There could less than 100 such scientists dedicated and specialized in researching black holes, versus the 8 billion humans on earth. That is to say, the 8 billioin humans need to put faith in the 100 scientists to indirectly get to such a piece of truth. That's how reality works.

Now how do we know the the truth of black hole with its characteristics are truly from scientists other than swallowing with faith? Subconsciously we rely on evaluating the legitimacy of what this piece of testimony is conveyed. From the authorities behind the testimony who authenticate the information, and from the consistency of how information are conveyed (if I said the in center of a black hole, there's a large stone, you shall not believe because this is inconsistent with information (a testimony) flowing). We get to the truth of black holes from journals we deemed reliable, TV channels we deemed reliable, education entities we deemed reliable. Subsequently these entities we deemed reliable are authenticated by the central government. One of the government's duty is to remove untrustworthy media conveying falsehoods. You may need to overthrow it if you don't think that it enforces the conveying of truth.

As for the Bible, the intangible media conveying its information are the physicla churches (you might choose to read the Bible by yourself though, yet in terms of a media in a larger scale of conveying information the churches are the role). The situation is governed by an intangible Church which utimately refers to the Temple built by Jesus in three days. It is somehow linked to God Himself (Jesus is the head of legitimate churches), in terms of authority and authentication.

Other than this "business as usual" flow of conveying truth, God the Holy Spirit is also poured upon Christians to guide them through. However, this is tied to basically two factors, which are 1) where your faith is, and 2) your distance from the sin-incompatible God.
As Jesus put, you can move mountains if you have enough faith, while He also put that His direct disciples' faith is smaller than the smallest seeds in the world. So you still need the authenticated Church to maintain a standard (though intangible as well).

Distance to the sin-incompatible God matters as well. How close you are to God? In 60s there could be less than 1% Christians can actually get in touch with pornography, but today the opposite may be true that less than 1% Christian haven't get in touch with it. To a certain extent, this measures distance from God of today's humans. Again, I don't think that you can rely on this factor alone without the intangible standard from the intangible Church. No worries yet, the final statement is that if you are His sheep you will hear His voice. Those endure to the end by doing the will of the Father shall be saved at the end. Not a single sheep will be left behind! That's the promise.

Say it aint so · 2025-11-13T11:54:39-0600

The Barbarian said:
Russiagate saw about a dozen Trump underlings convicted or pleading guilty. Let's hope Epsteingate is as productive in snaring the creeps.

Don't know that any "underlings" are guilty of anything but maybe obstruction of justice. Matt Gaetz's pedo problem isn't related to Trump's problems. But if there was a conspiracy to block the investigation,that could take down some perps at the top of the Justice Department.

Point is, Russiagate is a good analogy. Republicans claimed it was a witch hunt until one criminal after another was taken down. So far, just two nailed in the Epstein affair, but now the facts are starting to surface and it looks like Trump had a very good reason for trying to cover it up.

Yeah I never understood this "Russiagate" thing as if it were some kind of hoax. I mean Trump officials were meeting with Russians at Trump tower hoping to bang out a deal for political opponent fodder. Then you had Trump's own campaign manager Paul Manafort openly admitting he was working with Russians providing them with political data. What are Russians going to do with political data while in the mist of a presidential race? Now the current admin is investigating this for the third time trying to whitewash reality.

Hentenza · 2025-11-13T11:51:25-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
You are oversimplifying a complex issue. If Democrats created a single-payer health system that excluded transgender surgery or treatment, would conservatives then support it? I do think they would.

As an independent, I would support it in principle. However, both parties keep kicking the can down the road.

The Barbarian · 2025-11-13T11:49:05-0600

ViaCrucis said:
If I know someone is going around committing burglaries, and I say "Just don't burgle my house", that isn't much of a moral slam dunk.

Pretty much sums up Donald Trump's ethical outlook.

BCP1928 · 2025-11-13T11:48:16-0600

stevevw said:
This is a fact inherent in methodlogical naturalism. You literally just did it in your first point lol. Material science cannot account for spirituality. To then enforce onto spirituality material science in saying its all rejected as nothing is ignoring spirituality as something real.

Here's a story for you:

Many years ago when acupuncture started to become trendy the American Medical Association sent a team of (methodological naturalist) doctors over to China to work with traditional Chinese healers to see if there was anything in it. When they returned they reported that

1. Acupuncture was actually effective in many (though not all) cases as claimed.
2. The traditional explanation for its effectiveness, Qi energy channels, yin & yang, etc. was all post hoc moonshine.
3. They had discovered two new useful acupuncture points previously unknown to traditional Chinese medicine.

What do you make of that?

Here's another:

I worked for a while in a small island nation .The natives cultivated a plant, unique to those islands, which had medicinal properties. Of course the existence and use of the plant was surrounded with a traditional spiritual framework, but the important thing was that it worked. While I was there the plant came to the attention of (methodolically naturalist) Western medicine. The main concern of the Islanders was not that their spiritual framework would be dismissed, but whether or not they would get royalties from pharma companies.

The Barbarian · 2025-11-13T11:47:55-0600

Russiagate saw about a dozen Trump underlings convicted or pleading guilty. Let's hope Epsteingate is as productive in snaring the creeps.

Servus said:
Regarding Epstein what sort of Trump underlings are you referring to?

Don't know that any "underlings" are guilty of anything but maybe obstruction of justice. Matt Gaetz's pedo problem isn't related to Trump's problems. But if there was a conspiracy to block the investigation,that could take down some perps at the top of the Justice Department.

Point is, Russiagate is a good analogy. Republicans claimed it was a witch hunt until one criminal after another was taken down. So far, just two nailed in the Epstein affair, but now the facts are starting to surface and it looks like Trump had a very good reason for trying to cover it up.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-11-13T11:45:39-0600

BCP1928 said:
I do not consider the cultural issues less significant. What I object to is the use of these issues as a tool to divide the workforce. For instance, that we can't have single-payer health care because it's "socialist" and everybody knows that the end goal of socialism is to turn your kids gay. Whether gays can get married or drag queens can read to kids, even abortion, have nothing whatever to do with the economic well-being of the working class. They are separate issues.

You are oversimplifying a complex issue. If Democrats created a single-payer health system that excluded transgender surgery or treatment, would conservatives then support it? I do think they would.

Say it aint so · 2025-11-13T11:45:07-0600

camille70 said:
AI Bubble vid.

Login to view embedded media

This concerns me the most. Because our current government has dubbed them to big to fail replete with personal investment.
This may be another case of privatizing revenue, and when the you know what hits the fan, socializing the losses with a bailout.

The Barbarian · 2025-11-13T11:43:01-0600

Servus said:
85 million people are going to vote for him again anyways.

Not so long as the Constitution stands. He's done. This fiasco is his last stand.

Say it aint so · 2025-11-13T11:41:41-0600

Servus said:
Epsteingate, from the people who brought you Russiagate.

LOL. It was brought you by Trump's own conspiratorial base and Trump, Bannon, Patel, aka his circle ran with it.
This is a case of being hung by one's own petard.

fhansen · 2025-11-13T11:41:24-0600

Dikaioumenoi said:
You're answering the question. "Means" refers to the way of achieving something. God's patience concerns the temporal unfolding of what He has eternally decreed. His decree includes not only the fact that the elect will repent, but when and how they will. Regeneration and faith occur in time, not from eternity. God's patience, then, is His longsuffering toward the elect prior to that appointed moment, not hesitation or limitation in His power to bring it about.

It's not about His limitations, it's about man's reluctance. And 2 Pet 3:9 is not about just the elect, either, but about all men, as Paul understood as well:

"Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[b]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:22-31

Dikaioumenoi said:
Yes, you keep repeating the same point without engaging what I am actually saying. It's like you have in mind responding to a particular argument, rather than paying attention to what argument it is I have actually made. You are conflating two issues here. Let me clarify the distinction, once more:

The drawing as enabling is decisive. You've suggested that the Father's drawing (ἑλκύω) can fail. But John 6:44 explicitly ties the ability to come to being drawn: "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him." The drawing is the act that makes coming possible. If the Father's drawing could fail, then coming would not be possible for that person. The very point of the conditional is that enablement (the drawing) is necessary; failure here means impossibility. Your repeated objection -- "enabling does not mean causing" -- misses this entirely, because the verse is about enablement itself, not human response. How is one able to come to Christ at all, if the enablement (ἑλκύω) can fail?

Grammar connects enablement to salvation. This is a separate issue! It is only with the addition of the final clause that we get anything relevant to the question of whether or not those drawn actually come. This is a separate issue to the above. I have not once argued that ἑλκύω itself tells us that one actually will come. The argument concerning the meaning of ἑλκύω is that it does not fail to bring about enablement (which is why your argument that it can fail does not help your position; this is the point I have been trying to press). The argument that ἑλκύω implies that the enabling act is effectual in actually producing faith is a grammatical one based on how the final clause ("and I will raise him up on the last day") relates to what came before it. The argument there is that, grammatically, the text equates the one enabled to come (the "him" drawn") with the one who will actually be saved (the "him" raised). The verse itself assumes that all whom the Father draws (i.e., all who are enabled) will come and be saved. There is no distinction made in the grammar between those enabled and those actually raised on the last day. Thus, in addition to point #1 above, it is also the case that the act of drawing, by virtue of its grammatical linkage to the raising, cannot "fail" in achieving its intended outcome. Nevertheless, this conclusion is not implied by ἑλκύω itself. It is an additional grammatical point.

This is not grammatically defensible. The "him" in the drawing and the "him" in the raising are grammatically identical. There is no conditional or caveat in the Greek tying the raising to "remaining" or "producing fruit." Those are theological interpretations imposed on the text. Grammatically, all whom the Father draws will be raised. Anything else is reading something into the text that the language itself does not say. You can say, if you want to, that remaining and producing good fruit do indeed occur in true salvation (and I'll agree with you on that much), but what the grammar of the text will not allow is the conclusion that the one drawn might not do this.

"No one can come to me (-Q) unless the Father who sent me draws him (-P), and I will raise him up on the last day (R)."

= -Q if -P and R, which, stated formally, is (-P --> -Q) ^ R, the contrapositive of which is (Q --> P) ^ R, which reads:

"If he is able to come to me, then the Father who sent me has drawn him, and I will raise him up on the last day."

If Sam is able to come to Christ, then it is because the Father has drawn Sam, and Jesus will raise Sam up on the last day.

ἀναστήσω is a future indicative. There is a promise here to raise someone up on the last day. Who is that someone? It is the same individual throughout the verse: the one drawn; the one able to come. Thus, the text is making two claims, one explicit, one implicit:

The explicit: the Father's drawing MUST succeed in order for it to be POSSIBLE for someone to come to Christ.

The implicit: being drawn by the Father one-to-one results in being raised up on the last day. Thus, the Father's act of enablement is effectual in bringing about the intended outcome.

You’re not wanting to understand. The arguments I've submitted are sound. God provides the ability to come. You’ve determined that the drawing is decisive as in necessarily completing its job, God’s intention. But God can certainly fail if He chooses to associate man with the work of His grace, as has been taught, if man’s participation to one degree or another is desired, IOW.

And even if I conceded your point regarding John 6:44, it only means that Jesus was focused on the elect there, those He knows will come. I know the gospel and Scripture too well to be unable to flesh out the meaning of such a concise, isolated statement with all the other concepts and criteria involved in coming to God, and remaining there. I know that many are called and few are chosen while the elect are simply those who’ve been called and shown themselves to be good soil by the end of the day. And until then I know that people can deceive themselves all day along as to whether or not they’re even among those who’re called, those who are drawn and have come, and will remain, rendering the criteria a somewhat academic point until we receive the definitive verdict in the end.

Say it aint so · 2025-11-13T11:39:43-0600

Servus said:
Regarding Epstein what sort of Trump underlings are you referring to?

Like the one transferred to a Club Med prison and will be pardoned by Trump in ....5..4..3..2...

FredVB · 2025-11-13T11:39:10-0600

Jeffrey Bowden said:
This world will be at peace immediately before the start of the Trib (the 7-year Tribulation). The state of the world immediately before the Trib is revealed in 1 Th 5:1-3.

The AC starts the Trib that officially begins in Rev 6:1-2. The AC is set in motion for the timeframe from the start of the Trib through Rev 19:20, when the AC is killed.

Rev 19:21 precedes Matt 24:29, the official end of the Trib.

The seal judgments through seal 6 take up all of Rev 6. The 7th seal begins in Rev 8:1.

Rev 7 is an interlude within Rev. We know from Rev 7:16 (famine and scorching heat) that Rev 7 spans from the 4th seal (famine) in Rev 6:8 to the scorching heat in the 4th bowl in Rev 16:8-9.

Rev 7 truly spans most of the Trib from the 4th seal to the 4th bowl (great tribulation). To further validate this, “great tribulation” is cited in Rev 7:14, which is two verses before Rev 7:16 and its scorching heat that is only found in the 4th bowl.

I’m pointing these facts about Rev 7 to simply prove its time range stems from the seals through to the bowls. That is the width and breath of Rev 7. That is why it’s called an interlude because its timeframe does not fit between Rev 6 and Rev 8.

In summation: The AC is put in motion, starting the 7-year Trib, in Rev 6:1-2. The AC is active until he’s killed in Armageddon in Rev 19:20.

The Trib ends in Rev at Rev 19:21. Then, Matt 24:29, the official end to the Trib. Then, the 2A (2nd Advent) In Matt 24:30.

Why will all the world follow the prophesied beast? Why?? Make an explanation believable even to me. I see one answer to that. What have you got that can be more credible to me? I don't think you see the warning in Revelation 11:18 that I see.

I understand anyway there is time of tribulation from that time the one prophesied as a beast is followed by all (except the few so faithful to God then). No arguments needed for that.

Hentenza · 2025-11-13T11:35:05-0600

Apple Sky said:
It's flat & level.

Job 38:4-11
Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. / Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched a measuring line across it? / On what were its foundations set, or who laid its cornerstone.

You can't stretch a measuring line across a ball.

He didn’t use a measuring tape nor does the earth have a cornerstone. This is symbolic language and we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.

Do you think that God needs a measuring tape to measure something? Even if the earth was a disc, as you claim, it still could not have a “corner” stone.

The earth is a sphere just like every other planet in the universe is a sphere. Even the moon is round.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-11-13T11:30:38-0600

Guojing said:
To avoid misinterpretation of Galatians 6:16, avoid the NIV.

Nonsense. You are only saying this because of doctrinal bias. The NIV has one of the better translations of that verse because it shows that the Israel of God refers to all who follow the rule of being a new creation in Christ with neither circumcision (being a Jew) nor uncircumcision (being a Gentile) having anything to do with it.

(NIV) Galatians 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

But, even with the way it's worded in the KJV text, it's wrong to assume that the word "and" before it says "upon the Israel of God" implies that the Israel of God is a separate entity from those who walk according to the rule of being made a new creation in Christ regardless of being circumcised (of being a Jew) or not.

(KJV) Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

If the word "and" before "upon the Israel of God" implied that the Israel of God was a separate entity from those who have been made a new creature/creation in Christ, then does that mean those who fear God are a separate group than God's servants in the following verse?

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Clearly, those who fear God are His servants, so just because the word "and" comes before "ye that fear him" does not imply that those who fear God are a separate group or entity from God's servants. Obviously, God's servants are those who fear Him. Similarly, Paul saying "and upon the Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 does not imply that he was differentiating between the Israel of God and those who have been made a new creation in Christ. He was simply referring to all those who have been made a new creation in Christ as "the Israel of God".

JustaPewFiller · 2025-11-13T11:29:54-0600

To expound a little on Trump's words..."When Ingraham insisted the U.S. has "plenty of talented people here," Trump said, "No, you don't. No, you don't have certain talents, and people have to learn.""

There is a 2nd part to that which would be that US businesses would then need to actually hire those US citizens that have learned. Or, they could train some of the talented people they have now for those skills.

I'm recently retired from 35+ years in tech industry. 25+ of that in a fortune 50 firm.
Were there cases where a US worker with a certain skill couldn't be hired? Sure those existed.
Where there cases where US workers were either not hired or kicked out so jobs could be outsourced to foreign countries or replaced with H1B workers to use cheaper labor? Oh my goodness YES! way, Way, WAY more of these cases than cases where skilled US workers couldn't be found or existing workers trained.

LoricaLady · 2025-11-13T11:28:55-0600

On September 14, 2025, government officials entered a church, began recording the service and ultimately arrested two church leaders. The officials first demanded to see documents authorizing the religious meeting. Two church leaders explained that the fellowship had been meeting since 1992 and that, under Article 34 of the Kyrgyz constitution, they were guaranteed "freedom of conscience and religion." Read More.
Nov. 13, 2025 | Burkina Faso
Ministry Leaders Struggle After Attacks
[31] prayers in [5] nations have been posted for Christians in Burkina Faso.

As Islamists in Burkina Faso attack Christians and force hundreds of churches to close, ministry leaders and their families feel confusion and doubt, especially the women. Over 2 million Burkinabe have been displaced, and VOM provides emotional and spiritual support to ministry leaders among them, who sometimes struggle emotionally. "Many women expressed feelings of idleness, as they are no longer able to teach other women or engage in ministry," said a front-line worker. "Their identity, closely tied to their roles in the church, has been deeply affected." Read More.
Nov. 13, 2025 | Iraq
Christians Arrested, Accused of Evangelizing
[26] prayers in [5] nations have been posted for Christians in Iraq.

An Iraqi Christian who often helps disciple Christian converts from Islam was arrested and detained alongside two other Christians. They were released after a few days but are being accused of evangelizing, which is a criminal act as the country's official religion is Islam. A front-line worker has requested prayer for the Lord to intervene in their cases and that all three Christians will be able to return to their families. Read More.

Strong in Him · 2025-11-13T11:25:34-0600

Apple Sky said:
No I can't, so the sun is 93 million miles away this is just plain folly.

No, it's a fact that you just can't "see"/understand. That's how it is.
If you were taking an exam, one of the questions was "how far away is the sun?" and you wrote "3,000 miles" it would be marked wrong.
If you were taking part in a quiz and a tie-breaker question to win the cup was "how far away is the sun?"; if you gave your answer, you'd lose.
If you had a child who said, "mum, how far away is the sun?" you said "3,000 miles" and your child repeated that to their mates at school - guarantee they'd be laughed at.

Why don't you take the trouble to find out HOW it is a fact, rather than just saying "it can't be"?

Apple Sky said:
I said, 'why does water always find it's own level' ?

?? We weren't talking about water.

Apple Sky said:
No I can't & for good reason.

The "good reason" is that you refuse to accept them.
That's not at all the same as saying that they're not there.

Apple Sky said:
The world you think you live in is a fairy tale world.
What world do you live in ?

The world that God made - how about you?

Apple Sky said:
Facts have changed especially in my world.

The only facts that have changed recently in your world is that you no longer believe Charles Duke; in fact you think he is a liar.
A few months ago you said "sorry" to God for doubting the astronauts and said that believing in a globe earth would be hard but that "with God's help, I'll get there".
You have since completely changed your mind about that and, apparently, now don't need God's help because "yaaay! I'm back on track." Once again you are saying that the astronauts are liars and that the earth is flat.

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