Vambram said:

The far left wants Americans to spend $200 billion dollars a year for illegal immigrants healthcare. The rest of America has rejected that idea.

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Wrong. The left wants healthcare for all, not just for undocumented folks.

Apple Sky said:

That was just an example on how kids today are so clued up.

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But completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Vambram said:

Nope

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Why not? I’ve heard just as bad come out of Trump’s mouth and you all had no problem voting for him. Twice. You can’t convince me these aren’t views shared by many republicans these days even if you won’t admit it publicly.

Free2bHeretical4Him! said:

Laugh. Out. Loud! That just sounds so authoritative. So spiritual. I can see why you are so impressed by it …

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David Bentley Hart does not hide his . . . disgust . . . for Emperor Justinian, calling him a "thug" and a "wanna be theologian."

prodromos said:

Citation please

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Citation? Prodromos you want to know what size my t’s are too ? Now must prepare for new day . You’ll have citation later

RDKirk said:

If you really believed that, you would be happy with a Taliban province in Australia. Would you flourish as a woman in Afghanistan?

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Personally, no, I wouldn't. But nor would I want to prevent women who choose to do so - and I realise that some do - from living according to those values.

Some diversity is challenging, of course. But I think the alternative would leave us all impoverished.

Lukaris said:

There is no universalism in Eastern Orthodoxy. We read John 5:24-30 for the departed in our funeral services for the hope in the salvation of the departed soul ( 1 Corinthians 13:12-13)Shortly before the fast of Lent leading up to Pascha ( Easter) we also observe Sunday of the Judgement in reading Matthew 25:31-46 which is pretty clear on the reality of heaven & hell.

Sunday of Meatfare of the Last Judgment

Today’s Gospel reading is Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the Last Judgment. It reminds us that while trusting in Christ’s love and mercy, we must not forget His righteous judgment when He comes again in glory. If our hearts remain hardened and unrepentant, we should not expect the…

www.oca.org

Plus also from Matins leading up to the Sunday Liturgy of the Last Judgment:




The books will be opened * and the deeds of all mankind will be revealed *


before the dread judgment seat; * the whole vale of sorrow shall echo * with the


fearful and despairing sounds of lamentation, * at seeing all who have sinned


being sent by Thy just judgment * to everlasting torment, weeping in vain. *


Therefore we beseech Thee, O compassionate One: * Spare us who hymn Thy


praises, ** for Thou alone art plenteous in mercy.

https://st-sergius.org/services/triod/0-37.pdf

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And yet, there is so much hymnody in Orthodoxy that points to Universal Restoration. Honestly, Orthodox needs to make up its mind once and for all in this matter, and either eliminate the hymns that promise damnation and woe, or eliminate the hymns that promise salvation and resurrection for all.

Brad Jersak has written an article about this:

BIBLE VERSES WHICH TAKEN LITERALLY SUPPORT A FLAT EARTH-CENTERED UNIVERSE

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises".

1 Chronicles 16:30 NIV​

Tremble before him, all the earth!
The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

]Revelation 7:1 - "After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth,
back the four winds of the earth..."

Isaiah 11:12 NIV​

..... he will assemble the people of Judah​

from the four quarters of the earth.​

Isaiah 40:22 NIV​

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Job 28:24 NIV​

for he views the the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.
***********************************************************************************

CHARGES BROUGHT BY THE CHURCH AT GALILEO'S TRIAL (1533)​

The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

*****************************************************************************

1) Just as with EVOLUTION, a literal interpretation of the Bible in 1533 supported the proposition of the earth as flat, immovable and at the center of the solar system!

2) Any scientifically based research that challenged this concept of the universe was dismissed as ABSURD, FALSE PHILOSOPHICALLY ERRONEOUS IN FAITH and THEOLOGICALLY CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE!

3) Just as with Evolution, the concept of a heliocentric solar system in and of itself does not challenge the existence of GOD but merely forwarded alternative timelines and processes compatible with scientific research!

4) It was not until 1992, following 13 years of investigation, that Pope John Paul representing the Catholic Church, formally admitted its error concerning the prosecution and condemnation of Galileo

5) The Pope also acknowledged that Church theologians had erred when they transposed a question of scientific investigation into the realm of faith!

6) For those supporting a literal interpretation of Creation, while ignoring scientific evidence to the contrary, to be consistent they should also support the view of an immovable earth at the center of the universe - given that as with a 7 day Creation there are sufficient verses in the Bible that would support such a proposition!

eclipsenow said:

What on Earth does this have to do with anything?

S9 America shouldn't have a first world healthcare system that's covers everyone at half the cost (saving your debt!) ... just because... Immigrants!

Can you even begin to perceive how petty carping and racist that sounds to people outside the USA where universal healthcare is a right?

Are you really saying that 40 something baddies disqualifies the bottom 16 million Americans from healthcare?

That Trump should reward his billionaire mates with tax cuts while kicking the bottom 16 million Americans off healthcare to afford it?

How is this even remotely a Christian policy, a compassionate policy, a policy that treats other human beings as made in the image of God?

What you are looking at is government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, for the billionaires.

Didn't you know that's what BBB stood for?

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The far left wants Americans to spend $200 billion dollars a year for illegal immigrants healthcare. The rest of America has rejected that idea.

GoldenBoy89 said:

You’ll be voting for them soon enough.

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Nope

Hentenza said:

I know the Bible just fine and I could just as easily tell you to stop listening to unorthodox lies.


This verse does not teach repentance after death at all. Verses 21-22 tell you the context of the parable that follows. The question relates to your brother here on earth not in the afterlife. It would be quite the stretch to interpret it your way.

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Your interpretation. I think you are wrong, based on corollary passages in the Scriptures which address the idea of cleansing after death. For instance, Matthew 13:42, which speaks of the wicked being put into a smelting furnace. I'm sure you know what smelting is. Why would God do that if He is not going to bring them to cleanliness and forgiveness?

Hentenza said:

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you of these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires, take the water of life without cost.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 22:14-17 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, th | New American Standard Bible

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, th

bible.com

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You appear to have missed the point I was making about the chronology of Revelation 21 and 22. The Spirit and the Bride offer the Water of Life to anyone who is thirsty. Now tell me, are the righteous, who have drunk of the Holy Spirit, still thirsty? Can't be! They have had their thirst assuaged. This must be talking about the wicked who are in the Lake of Fire being purified. There comes a point when resistance to Christ is broken down and the soul cries out in repentance and mercy.

Hentenza said:

Read verse 14. There are 2 types of people here, those who washed their robes and those who did not (still in their sin). The invitation is for those who washed their robes not for those outside of the walls. In fact those outside of the wall are the ones that are kept apart from God.

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Yes, they are in the Lake of Fire. But you cannot make a case that they are there forever. Scripture doesn't point to any length of stay in those verses. You are assuming that.

Hentenza said:

I prefer to think of God as just and loving as He is described throughout scripture but God also said that He will save whom He wants. I see very little reason for Christ to go through such a horrendous death to justify those who believe then at the end all regardless of faith are also saved. The scriptures spend a lot space teaching that faith is required for salvation and that faith is now not later. Repent because the kingdom of Heaven is near. Why preach that if repentance can be later? Why preach that if repentance is possible after the kingdom of Heaven is here? As much as I would like to close my eyes and believe as you do this doctrine is not biblical.

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So what you are really saying is that He does not wish to save everyone. How utterly Calvinist of you!
Why preach repentance now? Do you really want to go through the fires of God's chastisement? Do you somehow think that is going to be a mere matter, a bit of a picnic overall? If so, you have never experienced the chastening of God and I will tell you from experience, I don't want to go through it again. Agony, pain, despair, the whole gamut of negative feelings and experience. No, sir, repent NOW and avoid something that you really, REALLY do not wish to go through.


Question: putting aside your references to certain Scriptures and just going from a philosophical and emotional view of this, what terrible thing do you think comes to pass if God cleanses everyone?

Strong in Him said:

Why is that a bright side?
The comment was that globe earth/moon landing believers don't know how to read the Bible.

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Well ive heard the same written about flat earthers such as flat heads who don’t know how to read their bibles. The ding dong love affair does continue I guess. Strong in him there more serious things grumble about as mentioned in my previous post ‍♀️

Colo Millz said:

Has anyone in the thread discussed the Septuagint canon (east) versus Hebrew canon (west) yet?

The Hebrew canon was not as long as the Septuagint canon, no?

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I did allude to that in my previous post where I mentioned that Jerome initially translated only the Hebrew books of the Old Testament.

Kathleen30 said:

Well look on the bright side Strong in Him they used to burn people for reading the Bible once ya know : )

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Citation please.

Boring, but yum

watercress

Hentenza said:

I read most of it. You sure like to accuse others. I even googled others like it and am still not convinced. The scholarship questioning it is of recent origin.

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So what you are saying is that if it takes time to come to a correct conclusion, that scholarship is questionable? You are saying that either people question the dogma immediately or it is not a good objection?

Hentenza said:

And I asked you what the official position of the EO church but you ignored that because is probably going to be different than yours.

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Hmmmmm . . . I thought I answered this, but I will state again. There is NO OFFICIAL CATECHISM in the Orthodox Church. I was told this by a priest, no less. The Roman Church has an official book. We do not. Therefore, we are free to hold to any particular eschatology which we feel is in line with Scripture and does not violate the Creed.

Strong in Him said:

I wasn't talking about you; I replied to d taylor's post.
You just jumped in and told me that was a horrible thing to say - presumably without carefully reading the post I was replying to.

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My apologies.

Yarddog said:

You're not a Democrat either but you listen to Republican lies.

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Nope. Just pay attention.

Yarddog said:

That isn't the Democratic party or their policy any more than the Nazi party is the Republican party.

New Dems Unveil New Plan to Secure the Border and Reform the Immigration System | New Democrat Coalition

The Official Site For The New Democrat Coalition

newdemocratcoalition.house.gov

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All progressives are democrats.

Hentenza said:

Nah. No admitting anything. Just selfish of my time when it comes to such an obvious issue. And no, I’m not a republican.

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You're not a Democrat either but you listen to Republican lies.

Pommer said:

The Hatch Act hasn’t been enforced since at least when the White House was the backdrop to a Goya beans “commercial”.

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There has net been a need to enforce it until now?

Strong in Him said:

Just because a child may know how to work a mobile phone does not mean they can work out/understand that the moon landings were faked.

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That was just an example on how kids today are so clued up.

Apple Sky said:

When did I ever say this ?

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I wasn't talking about you; I replied to d taylor's post.
You just jumped in and told me that was a horrible thing to say - presumably without carefully reading the post I was replying to.

Yarddog said:

Lol,thanks for admitting the problem. You believe the right right wings lies because you're too lazy to check for facts.

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Nah. No admitting anything. Just selfish of my time when it comes to such an obvious issue. And no, I’m not a republican.

Strong in Him said:

Not half as horrible as saying that someone who believes in a globe earth doesn't know how to read the Bible.

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When did I ever say this ?