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The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:53:35-0600

BobRyan said:
I don't tell AI about my affiliation

AI says "The answers I provided were determined by analyzing theological viewpoints against your precise criteria, not by attempting to guess or please you."

And what were the answers it provided?

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:52:28-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Well in the Orthodox denomination, Christ is clearly portrayed as a Roman emperor, as his red and purple garments in the icons will show, likewise worn by his relatives.

Not true; in the famous icon depicting Christ and Emperor Justinian in the Hagia Sophia, you can see Emperor Justinian wearing a toga and stole which is quite different than the resplendent robes worn by Christ our God.

Also, insofar as the Roman Empire was a thing of holiness, it was not the first Christian government, that was the Kingdom of Edessa, converted in 301 AD, the first Christian nation was the Kingdom of Armenia, converted by St. Gregory the Illuminator (who we venerate, as well as the Armenians) in 306 AD, and the Roman Empire was the sixth, under St. Theodosius when he finally banned Paganism and smashed the Altar of Victory around 390 AD (in the interim, Georgia and Ethiopia both converted to Christianity).

Now, St. Constantine the Great did embrace Christianity and legalize it under the Edict of Milan, but his heir Constantius was an Arian heretic, and Julian the Apostate was a Neo-Platonist; there was not another Christian Emperor until St. Theodosius, and it was only under Theodosius that the Roman Empire declared Christianity its official religion. Shortly thereafter it split into the Eastern and Western Empires, the Western Empire was overrun by Visigoths (who were Arian) and collapsed, and the Eastern Empire persisted until Turkocratia.

By the way there are a large number of Eastern Orthodox members of this forum - @prodromos @jas3 @FenderTL5 @HTacianas - in the event we are making any mistake, our pious brethren will correct us, if we invite them to do so.

And to be clear, I am not completely rejecting your arguments; some of what you have said I agree with - I simply feel that, even more than Fr. John C. Romanides, you’re making an Orthodox == Roman association which is relevant only to the Eastern Orthodox Christians of the former Eastern Roman Empire, who identify using the demonym of Rum in the case of Antiochian and Alexandrian Greek-speaking Christians, Romiioi in the case of some other Greek-speakers, and Romanians in the case of the Wallachians, Moldavians, Bessarabians and Transylvanians who speak the Romance language related to Aromanian and the lost Dalmatian language.

samaus123456789 · 2025-12-07T17:46:45-0600

In 1/2 Maccabees in 100s BC they did not think there was any prophets among them

1 Maccabees 9:27

Common English Bible

27 So there was great distress in Israel, the worst since the time when prophets ceased to appear among them.

1 Maccabees 4:46

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

46 And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.

2 Maccabees 2 quotes a prophecy from Jeremiah which is from 4 Baruch in the 500s BC but it is not an original prophecy in Maccabees just quoting something else that was written centuries before.

Psalms of Solomon Psalms of Solomon - Wikipedia This is not psalms in the normal bible.

Some of these are describing Pompey invading Jerusalem 63 BC then dying in Egypt 48 BC. One is describing the Babylon exile 587 BC or the Assyrian exile 722 BC. One claims to be a conversation Solomon had back in the 900s BC. It is possible that one goes back to Solomon. I do not know why a scribe titled this manuscript psalms of Solomon when none claim to have authorship by Solomon, and several are clearly recalling events after his time. Psalm 17 contains multiple prophecies about Jesus so at least this psalm is claiming be written before 1 AD, and claiming to be inspired scripture. The same psalm contains a part about either Pompey or Antiochus 4 in Maccabees also. Assuming it is about the same person in the other psalms that besieged Jerusalem it was Pompey. The internal date of authorship is between 48 BC, and 1 AD. I believe it is inspired scripture.

So although most prophecy seemed to stop after Malachi was written around 400 BC there is some prophecy 48 BC-1 AD. I believe 1/2/3 Maccabees are inspired like Esther, and those books are history with no prophecies where as most other OT books have both.

Ask chat GPT to show how Zechariah 13 happened in 1/2 Maccabees too. It gives some good verses. The latest that prophecy could of happened was 70 AD. Some parts are a double prophecy about Jesus also as the NT quotes it.

Chesterton · 2025-12-07T17:44:29-0600

iluvatar5150 said:
For a while, his show was being produced/paid by a front company for Russian propagandists.

I checked on it, and yes they allegedly contributed (nothing's been proven yet), but it did not produce and fund his show. Is Ilhan Omar a Somali propagandist? What was this Russian propaganda saying?

Tim Pool's never been charged with any wrongdoing, so I have no idea why you put that in this thread.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:42:36-0600

BobRyan said:
It consistently gives the correct answer in my clean AI session windows and it correctly explains why it did not select options like Baptist Lutheran and Assemblies of God.

I did not mention any of them in my query to AI

What is the “correct answer” you are seeing? I’d assume its not the answer I’m seeing? Because you never disclosed what we should expect to be seeing; I would assume the SDA is on the list, but if you tell me the exact results you’re getting I can watch for it and conduct a larger survey.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:41:13-0600

BobRyan said:
did you do it in a fresh AI session or did you rely on lingering bias features in the AI system to groom it toward your desired target.

In a fresh session. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered posting a screenshot proving the result.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:40:11-0600

BobRyan said:
Sadly that is totally false. The reason we are getting autonomous AI implementations recently is that they work. They work without having to be first told what the right answer is. Which is why the simple test I show of AI rejecting what even you admit is a bad conclusion .

I’ve been unable to repeat the results you claim, which essentially moots your entire argument, despite having used a clean session and having used the question with your exact wording.

Which goes to my point - the results you get from AI searches are not repeatable between users. Factors such as prior AI usage will influence the output. If chatGPT knows you are an Adventist, it will tailor the output to your usage scenario.

For this reason, all queries of this sort are appeals to unqualified authority.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-07T17:39:32-0600

Hentenza said:
Here. I’ll let AI answer that one.

Objects in moonlight often feel colder because clear, moonlit nights are prime conditions for radiative cooling, where the ground rapidly loses heat to the cold, clear sky, while being in the "shade" (under cover like a tree or roof) blocks this heat loss, trapping warmth and making it feel relatively warmer, not because moonlight itself is cold. Moonlight is reflected sunlight and carries little heat; the difference is due to what the object isn't experiencing in the shade versus the open, moonlit area.

What about the sky makes it colder.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-07T17:37:55-0600

Hentenza said:
So then prove that the reflectors are not on the moon and that the moon is not made of rock. No social media though. You can only use credibly academic or scientific sources.

How about the time when one of the astronots gave a foreign diplomat a moon rock, which turned out to be petrified wood?

FaithT · 2025-12-07T17:35:58-0600

chevyontheriver said:
So, he is stalking you. If you need to you can get a restraining order if he ever just shows up or manages to get your phone number.

As to landline phones, we got rid of those about three years ago and have not missed them one bit.

I havent been able to part with our landline phones. Very few people have my cell number. If my cellphone started getting as many calls from solicitors as my landline does it would drive me crazy. One day i counted 29 calls and I’m not even sure that was the last one.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:35:29-0600

Ain't Zwinglian said:
Got that right. Individuals here at CF have sometimes discarded Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias for websites such as Got Questions, Quora, et. al. The value of a Bible Dictionary or Encyclopaedia is that all contributors must adhere to a common standard of scholarship which can be peer reviewed. Also a name is usually affixed to the article for credential review.

AI is about as reliable as Quora - if you get the AI to provide its sources, and use specific terminology, and ask it questions which are not highly subjective, such as the one proposed by another member, it is equivalent in reliability to following up on the citations on a Wikipedia article - if you verify the accuracy of the information then you’re appealing to that source, which is a qualified authority, whereas otherwise all references to AI behavior are unqualified authority.

BPPLEE · 2025-12-07T17:33:58-0600

The Barbarian said:
Trump's first term, he had lower approval than Biden's term.

Donald Trump's presidential approval rating stood at only 45 percent after 100 days in office, the lowest among recent presidents. The only lower score listed by Gallup was achieved by Trump in his first term. Then, his approval was only at 41 percent after 100 days. In comparison, Joe Biden - also considered a rather unpopular U.S. president - scores higher

Infographic: 100 Days in Office: Biden Beats Trump

This chart shows the approval ratings of the most recent U.S. presidents after the first 100 days in office.

www.statista.com

Good for Biden, look where it got him

Christsfreeservant · 2025-12-07T17:33:41-0600

The context here is the story of Jesus’ friend Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, who was sick and died. Jesus did not get to him before he died, so when Jesus did arrive, Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days.

“Martha, therefore, when she heard that Jesus was coming, went to meet him, but Mary stayed at the house. Martha then said to Jesus, ‘Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.’ Jesus said to her, ‘Your brother will rise again.’ Martha said to Him, ‘I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.’

“Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?’ She said to Him, ‘Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.’” (John 11:20-27 NASB1995)

But when Jesus arrived at the tomb of Lazarus, and the stone had been removed from the tomb, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” And Lazarus came forth, no longer dead, but alive (John 11:38-44).

But now I am going to focus my attention here on verses 25-27 and look at what that means for us today. For to believe in Jesus Christ means to be “born again” of the Spirit of God. By God-persuaded and God-gifted faith in the Lord Jesus, our old lives of living in sin and for self are put to death with Christ at the cross, because of what Jesus did in putting our sins to death with him when he died on that cross. Then we are resurrected with him to walk in newness of life in him, as those who obey him and his commands.

For Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

Therefore, what it means to believe in Jesus is not words only. We cannot merely mouth words of confession of Christ as Lord and Savior and expect that all our sins are now forgiven, and that heaven is our eternal destiny, if we do not, by God-provided faith in him, deny self, die to sin daily (in practice), and walk (in conduct, in practice) in obedience to our Lord and to his commands. For belief in Christ is the persuasion of God as to his holiness and righteousness, and of our sinfulness, and of God’s requirement that we deny self, die to sin daily, and follow him in obedience to his commands.

So, what this means is that, even if we die in our bodies, and we no longer have the physical breath of life within us, because we have now departed from this sinful world for forever, if we believe in Jesus (as described above), then we will live for eternity with God – Father, Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. And all of us who walk by faith in Jesus Christ in holy living, pleasing to God, in obedience to our Lord’s commands, and no longer as slaves to sin, we will never die spiritually, but we will live with our Lord for eternity.

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 1:18-32; Romans 2:5-10; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 10:19-39; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:1-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22]

A Believer’s Prayer

An Original Work / July 31, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

With my whole heart, Lord, I pray
To be Yours, and Yours always.
Lead me in Your truth today.
May I love You, and obey.
Lead me in Your righteousness.
When I sin, may I confess;
Bow before You when I pray;
Live for You and You always.

Love You, Jesus, You’re my friend.
Life with You will never end.
You are with me through each day,
Giving love and peace always.
You will ne’er abandon me.
From my sin You set me free.
You died on that cruel tree,
So I’d live eternally.

Soon You’re coming back for me;
From this world to set me free;
Live with You eternally.
Oh, what joy that brings to me.
I will walk with You in white;
A pure bride, I’ve been made right
By the blood of Jesus Christ;
Pardoned by His sacrifice.

Login to view embedded media
The Resurrection and The Life
An Original Work / December 7, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

The Liturgist · 2025-12-07T17:30:29-0600

BobRyan said:
"using strict compliance to criteria ---what are the top 3 Christian denominations holding to sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and having a single set of administrators with one single set of official doctrines and having no autonomous subgroups included in the total membership"

Which I did, and I posted the screenshot of its reply, which was in no way the result of prompt hacking or other non-default behavior; indeed the screenshot speaks for itself.

The fact that it was not what you expected proves my point - you can’t rely on LLMs to answer questions consistently.

The three largest churches, according to the chatGPT 5.1 Instant instance that i asked, grouped according to your specific question, were the LCMS, WELS and the ELS. I was surprised by this result, but I suspect it derives from the ambiguity of your query, since administration, denomination, and even Sola Scriptura have disputed meanings.

Hentenza · 2025-12-07T17:27:03-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Another verifiable evidence you can test for yourself, as has been done by multiple people already feel free to watch it on any platform you want: why are objects in the moon light colder than in the shadow at night?

Here. I’ll let AI answer that one.

Objects in moonlight often feel colder because clear, moonlit nights are prime conditions for radiative cooling, where the ground rapidly loses heat to the cold, clear sky, while being in the "shade" (under cover like a tree or roof) blocks this heat loss, trapping warmth and making it feel relatively warmer, not because moonlight itself is cold. Moonlight is reflected sunlight and carries little heat; the difference is due to what the object isn't experiencing in the shade versus the open, moonlit area.

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-07T17:23:37-0600

chevyontheriver said:
Are you saying he had it coming?

no

I also don’t accept the assumption that it was because of his political activism.

But no, he didn’t have it coming.

BNR32FAN · 2025-12-07T17:22:58-0600

Valletta said:
“The evil of human trafficking cannot be overstated. It’s modern-day slavery. By leaving our borders open and even encouraging people to come here illegally, Biden enabled the largest human-trafficking operation in modern history,” DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said after a rescue operation this past July.

NEW: Immigration Agents Have Rescued More Than 60,000 Children From Human Smugglers

Federal immigration agents under the Trump Administration have rescued more than 62,000 migrant children from situations involving sex trafficking and forced labor, White House border czar Tom Homan announced Sunday. “Over half a million children were smuggled into this country under Joe Biden,”...

trendingpoliticsnews.com

May God bless continued efforts to rescue victims of human trafficking.

This doesn’t even remotely sound plausible. This would mean that ICE has been finding 193 children in slavery in the United States every single day since Trump got into office. That’s 5,790 every month and they haven’t told anyone about these numbers until now?

Hentenza · 2025-12-07T17:22:51-0600

jonojim1337 said:
Be your own source.

I’m not wasting my time. Even if I was to prove it you would ignore it or use your famous laughing smiley.

iluvatar5150 · 2025-12-07T17:22:46-0600

Chesterton said:
What exactly is a "Russian backer", and what's your beef with them?

For a while, his show was being produced/paid by a front company for Russian propagandists.

Hentenza · 2025-12-07T17:20:49-0600

jonojim1337 said:
What the hell. Anyone can make up stories like that. Just because the moon reflects laser light doesn’t mean it’s solid or contains reflectors. You can bounce lasers off plasma as well.

So then prove that the reflectors are not on the moon and that the moon is not made of rock. No social media though. You can only use credibly academic or scientific sources.

jonojim1337 · 2025-12-07T17:18:46-0600

Hentenza said:
No thanks. I follow only credible sources.

Be your own source.

Hentenza · 2025-12-07T17:18:05-0600

jonojim1337 said:
You can test it yourself. That’s why it’s called, verifiable evidence.

No thanks. I follow only credible sources.

Hentenza · 2025-12-07T17:17:15-0600

Kathleen30 said:
As I said Russian unmanned space craft landed and placed their own reflectors on the moon in the 70’s . You don’t think the Americans could do the same with an unmanned flight to claim with the reflectors that they actually landed men on the moon . It’s like putting the cart before the horses. I say no Astronaut would have survived the ordeal through the Van Ellen belt to place any reflectors. And that is if they are really there.it is noted that in the myth busters when they went to an observatory to do a laser test to ding one of reflectors . They first shot a laser at the surface of the moon . No Bounce back ??? That is telling. Yet they had been bouncing lasers off the moon since the early 60’s and then they direct their laser to the reflector and of course they get their ping. But no bounce back from the first laser that hit the moons surface. Seems to me someone was screwing with the test. What else do they screw with? Seems the folks there never realised that lasers had been being bounced off the moon since the early 60’s . Now me has to prepare for work. As i said come 2027

No. You ignore proven science and factual history. You need to let go of the conspiracy theory nonsense.

SuperCow · 2025-12-07T17:17:00-0600

Mark Quayle said:
Well, yes, I can, if 'free will' goes by the adjective, "uncaused". Nothing happens uncaused, except God. Everything that is —except God— is so because it was caused to become so.

I see an opinion. I do not see any proof. And there's two problems here. First is that just because God caused creation (and everything that goes along with it), that does not mean that he knows everything that will happen. It could mean that, but it could just as easily be that things were created and God let things happen and guided it along the way. Or technically it could even mean that he created things, didn't know what the result would be and changed things as they went. Or it could even mean that he caused the Big Bang, and went off to some other dimension when we didn't live up to our responsibilities.

Mark Quayle said:
If freewill is uncaused, man does not have freewill.

This reasoning is entirely backwards. Freewill that is caused is not freewill, and to think that it is creates a paradox.

Mark Quayle said:
So you believe that God is not omniscient, if I follow your reasoning, here.

I believe "FutureAndAHope" provided a scripture that implies otherwise, and I provided two others. You have not provided any, from what I can see. All you have provided is opinions about what you think God should be to make sense to you, and what you need to do is provide a scriptural answer as to how an omniscient, omnipotent God can feel regrets in multiple scriptures in the Bible.

Mark Quayle said:
So that they are without excuse. And so that we would know that they had no excuse.

Again, this is entirely opposite reasoning to logic. If my actions are "caused", then my excuse is that God made me sin, as I had no choice.

Mark Quayle said:
If God is not omniscient, he is not God.

Nonsense. If aliens created us in a lab, they technically would be our creator. If they continued to control us by force, they would technically be our God (or gods). This would be true regardless of our ability to resist or their ultimate abilities as a species.

Mark Quayle said:
Why do you think "choice" is synonymous with "free will"? I believe we have choice. In fact, we are commanded to choose, and we can't help but choose all day long. But that doesn't mean our choices are uncaused.

None of the Bible makes sense if choice is uncaused.

That depends on what you call "free will". You could say that slaves do not have free will, but they can choose to defy their overlords and die. But what I am calling free will is the ability to make a choice. If my choice is caused by God, then as you say I have no free will, but that means I am nothing more than a biological robot who is just following its pre-programmed path, and so are the 8 billion other people alive today, along with however many billion who have lived in the past. We might as well all be part of a computer simulation in that case.

Logical rule of thumb:

My choices are caused : Any choice I think I have is an illusion, and I am an automaton.
My choices are my own : I can choose to serve God, or I can choose to reject him, but I might suffer consequences.
God is omniscient : God is all-knowing about the future, and so is unable to create anything that that has real choices, because his act of creating them automatically forces a path that he has pre-conceived. Therefore my choices are caused and I am a biological robot.
God is omnipotent : In this case it is impossible to also be omniscient, because God cannot create a creature with free choice, which then means there is something that is impossible for God to do. But then we already know God isn't omnipotent, because Hebrews 6:18 says "it is impossible for God to lie".

Latest activity

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1 Maccabees 9:27​

Common English Bible​

27 So there was great distress in Israel, the worst since the time when prophets ceased to appear among them.​

​

1 Maccabees 4:46​

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

46 And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.​

​

​

2 Maccabees 2 quotes a prophecy from Jeremiah which is from 4 Baruch in the 500s BC but it is not an original prophecy in Maccabees just quoting something else that was written centuries before. ​

​

Psalms of Solomon Psalms of Solomon - Wikipedia This is not psalms in the normal bible. ​

​

​

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1 Maccabees 9:27

Common English Bible

27 So there was great distress in Israel, the worst since the time when prophets ceased to appear among them.

1 Maccabees 4:46

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

46 And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.

2 Maccabees 2 quotes a prophecy from Jeremiah which is from 4 Baruch in the 500s BC but it is not an original prophecy in Maccabees just quoting something else that was written centuries before.

Psalms of Solomon Psalms of Solomon - Wikipedia This is not psalms in the normal bible.