• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

the myth of flat earth debunked again

Upvote 0

The Reality of Free Will

Okay. Thank you.
What you don't believe is what is.

The Bible says, at Hosea 14:4, in part...​

This Hebrew word comes from the Hebrew word nadab, of which Topical Lexicon says...​
The verb נָדַב consistently underlines a movement of the heart that is neither coerced nor merely dutiful. It describes people stirred from within to give, serve, or step forward because they have first been moved by God. Throughout Scripture this spirit of readiness is linked to worship, stewardship, civic responsibility, and warfare, revealing a multifaceted biblical theology of voluntary devotion.
“Yes, it's true that Hosea shows God acts freely. But the only coherent meaning of ‘free will’ in Scripture is a will free from sin, just as I have claimed. Hosea 14:4 says, ‘I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely, for my anger is turned away.’ Notice the subject: God heals, God loves, God turns anger away. Israel did not heal themselves, and God could not have chosen the other. That’s unconditional love, not voluntary choice. So, if Hosea proves free will, it proves God’s will — a will free from sin, immutable and faithful — not human autonomy.”
At 1 Corinthians 9:16-18, verse 17 says,​

Paul uses the Greek word hekón: Willing, Voluntary. Which means of one's own free will.​
According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon...​
STRONGS NT 1635: ἑκών​
ἑκών, ἑκοῦσα, ἑκον, unforced, voluntary, willing, of one's own will, of one's own accord: Romans 8:20; 1 Corinthians 9:17. (From Homer down.)​
Paul uses both hekón (willing) and akón (unwilling) to show that his stewardship was not voluntary. Whether willing or unwilling, he is bound to preach. His point is not that he volunteered, but that he could not have chosen otherwise and been right before God. Hosea and Paul together prove God’s free will, not human autonomy.

At Philemon 1:14, Paul says...​

The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).​
Philemon 1:14, Paul does use hekousios — voluntary, unforced. But notice the context: he is contrasting compulsion with consent in Philemon’s generosity. He is not teaching libertarian free will -> could've done the other. Paul is showing the Holy Spirit is working in him through considerate brotherly love, so that Philemon’s goodness would be uncoerced, not forced.


adjective​
Done or undertaken of one's own free will.​
a voluntary decision to leave the job.​
Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward.​
a voluntary hostage; voluntary community work.​
Normally controlled by or subject to individual volition.​
The act of willing or choosing; the act of forming a purpose; the exercise of the will.​
The result of an act or exercise of choosing or willing; a state of choice.​
The power of willing or determining; will.​

These works are not beliefs. There are facts - works of academia.
The definition of the words here, are not subject to change based on one's belief.
They describe free will, voluntary, willful, deliberate, and intentional action.
You cannot accept them... so you claim, but at the same time do not believe them.
You’re mistaken. I never said I don’t accept lexiconic terms. I fully acknowledge the academic definitions of hekón and hekousios as voluntary, unforced, deliberate. What I am saying is that they are being taken out of context when used to prove libertarian free will — the idea that one ‘could have done otherwise’, or the false autonomy of "the capacity to choose sin".

In Philemon 1:14, Paul contrasts compulsion with consent in generosity. In 1 Corinthians 9:17, he contrasts willing with unwilling, but either way it is stewardship. And in verse 16 he says, ‘Woe to me if I do not preach,’ which shows he could not have chosen otherwise and been right before God. So the definitions are facts, but the application is wrong. They describe posture in context, not metaphysical autonomy.
I cannot continue this conversation with you, as it would be similar to talking with someone who says they don't believe seas and oceans exist, simply because of their beliefs., and opening works of academia and showing that person that what they are denying is actually proven knowledge makes no difference to them.
Oh, come on. I do believe in seas and oceans? <-- I'm on the record. I don't want you to leave the discussion of my own free will in brotherly Love.
Upvote 0

Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

...neither the White House or Department of War have yet to brief Congressional committees regarding the military build up in Venezuela.

Nor, afaik, Republican committee chairs have not called for any hearings.
Upvote 0

The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

Considering 98 democrats could not condemn the horrors of socialism, socialism is now proven to be democrat mainstream.

The number of children living in poverty in the US is 17%
Notice how many of the lowest rates belong to democratic socialist countries:
1764021669357.png


Oh look! Almost 5 times as many children in poverty in capitalist utopia cahntry.
Upvote 0

Judge dismisses James Comey and Letitia James cases, finding prosecutor's appointment invalid

Judge dismisses James Comey and Letitia James cases, finding prosecutor's appointment invalid

Washington — A federal judge on Monday ordered the criminal charges against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James to be dismissed on the grounds that Lindsey Halligan, the interim U.S. attorney who secured their indictments, was unlawfully appointed to the role.​
The rulings from U.S. District Judge Cameron Currie are a significant victory for Comey and James, who both argued their prosecutions are retaliatory and motivated by President Trump's efforts to punish his political foes.​
"I conclude that all actions flowing from Ms. Halligan's defective appointment, including securing and signing Mr. Comey's indictment, constitute unlawful exercises of executive power and must be set aside," Currie wrote in her opinion in the Comey case, a line that she repeated in her ruling in the James case.​
Currie ordered the indictments to be dismissed without prejudice, which would allow prosecutors to seek charges again. She suggested that prosecutors could not seek a new indictment in Comey's case since the statute of limitations for the offenses expired at the end of September.

Don't cheer too quickly -

Single mom battling custody order barring her from taking daughter to church

I am interested in what exactly has caused the courts to think that the Calvery church is a cult. Because this could mean that any religion or denomination could be classed as a cult.

Determining something a cult is really a subjective determination. Unless there is some obvious harm then this is really a matter of opinion and belief itself. One belief determining another belief.

Its interesting that they mention that its because the biblical teachings violates the First Amendment. Is this the standard biblical teachings which all Christian denominations follow. If so this could set a precedent banning the bible as a belief.

I think this is a continuation and expansion of the growing dislike and attacks on Christian beliefs.

I have heard similar narratives about Christians who profess their beliefs. Progressives thinking the simple belief of traditional marriage and family, or pro life, opposing practicing LGB and Trans ideology is hateful and something that needs to be stopped.

There is clearly a divide and conflict growing between the world and Christian belief where Christianity and the bible are being made out as cultish, hateful, delusional, a cause of trouble and conflict and being seen as a threat to modern day norms.
Upvote 0

the myth of flat earth debunked again

The Balmoral pyramids were built in the 1800s, that's a proven and evidenced fact, and you're a fool of the highest order and it's only because of the rules of this website that stops me REALLY expressing with the vitriol you deserve how I really think of you and your claims.
I am personally in awe of the calm and patience you have exercised in the face of such monumental stupidity. I thought @Apple Sky was bad, but she is a total lightweight in comparison to our new friend.
Upvote 0

Campus Prayer at Univ. of South Florida interrupted by harassers; felony hate crime charges filed against two men

There's an aspect of Islam that separates it from the other Abrahamic religions... and it's one that people rarely talk about (amid the bickering of "whose book technically has the most violent verse in it", "who did the most recent thing that could be construed as terrorism", etc...)

And that is, Islam (via the texts) also act as a political prescription.

While the other 2 certainly have verses that could potentially influence how a person may vote, that's different from being the aforementioned political prescription.

Early Islamic texts (Quran and Hadith) contain structures and policy guidelines on inheritance, contract enforcement, taxation, warfare, judicial procedure, wealth distribution, and governance.
Sorry. I'm fairly certain much of this is laid out for Judaism as well.
Upvote 0

The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

It is perversion and they are not harmless. They are trying to queer kids.
Queer is a verb now?

I bet those decades of silly gay people feel ridiculous with all the popular literature and movies they've watched with heterosexuals making out.

All that time we've been brainwashing them straight and it worked so well, they didn't evne notice!
or change.

Because it doesn't work that way....
or the other way.
Upvote 0

The NEA is pushing far left teaching upon children

Baloney. Compassion as Jesus and His Apostles would have modeled it already entailed empathy as one nuanced aspect of its expression.
I'm really not sure what the exact verbiage is in latin (nor translations of their English equivalents) so I'm not going to be so bold as to assume what you do here.
But okay....

Yes, I know, on a secular level, empathy and compassion are considered as two distinct although related concepts.
"BARELY distinct" but yes, I agree.

But for Christians, we are to go beyond that. Understanding others should be found within the social praxis that an outcome of having already applied compassion would achieve.
I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand what you're advocating for here and how it's different than empathy.
However, stopping short with mere empathy is a cheap rip-off
or compassion

of what should be the FULLER application of Christian grace, mercy, and love, and done without at the same time pandering to Secularized, un-Christian demands to approve of all that some extreme ideologues and demagogues insist as a social outcome.
I don't think anyone anywhere is advocating for people to ONLY show "empathy" so I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

I haven't yet figured out how "approve" became a part of the definition of "being empathetic" for certain Christians.

I'm a teacher in Alberta. 3 weeks ago, our government used the Notwithstanding Clause against us to force us back to work while stripping teachers' of our rights aligned in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Last week, tha same government used the SAME clause to restrict the rights of trans people in our province.

Whether I approve of transgenderism or not, I understand the feeling of having our rights taken away and I can have an empathetic resposne to them.

I've also been judged harshly based on my body so I can have that kind of empathy with trans people. I CANNOT be empathetic to the feeling of wanting to be a different gender, but I can be empathetic to other feelings to which I am familiar.
Upvote 0

The Ancient of Days

I’ve long since set aside the idea that this icon represents the Holy Trinity.

The icon was specifically intended by St. Andrei to represent the Trinity in a symbolic manner.

So essentially what you’re doing is saying you’re setting aside the iconographer’s own intentions as well as those of the Orthodox Church in favor of a hyper-literal interpretation.

Which would be fine if we were talking about an Anglican icon or a passage of Scripture, but since this is an Eastern Orthodox icon, frankly, disagreeing with the Eastern Orthodox Church about its interpretation is absurd. It would be akin to if I were to argue against prevalent Anglican interpretation of an aspect of the Anglican faith that is specifically Anglican, without the mitigating factor that I used to be Anglican as a member of the Episcopal Church, before I joined the Orthodox church just under 12 years ago.
Upvote 0

the myth of flat earth debunked again

If a piece of a ship is high above the water (so that ripples or waves don't come into it) and the water is planar, then that piece of ship should be visible to any eye that is also above the level of the plane.

But we know that the altitude of one's eye affects what one can and cannot see, because the curvature of the earth interposes itself.
Because of perspective, objects will rise of they are below the horizon and drop if they are above, and become smaller, so that eventually even a big boat will be covered by a small wave that’s a mile or two in front of it. Eventually you won’t see the object at all because we don’t have infinite resolution in our optics and simply can’t take in all the light.
IMG_7823.jpeg


I think the Debunk coin table video proved this well. Before he zooms in there is no gap between the coin and the table.
Upvote 0

Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Several airlines (but not all) have cancelled all flights to Venezuela.

And now the Department of War on Christmas....

Christmas cancelled for US troops surrounding Venezuela

US troops in the Caribbean have reportedly been told they may not be able to go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas as the White House ramps up its pressure campaign against Venezuela.

Southcom, the US combat command responsible for South and Central America, is restricting leave over the festive period in preparation for land strikes in the region, according to CNN.

So much for Hanukkah in Santa Monica!
Upvote 0

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

In Exodus God told us when His Sabbath started at Creation in Genesis, I didn't jump anywhere the Bible explained Itself, in this case God verbatim.

I am not going to debate you further there is no point. All will get sorted out in God's time.
So you are not going to actually address my post. :doh:
Upvote 0

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,878,655
Messages
65,421,950
Members
276,394
Latest member
rockfist