Dikaioumenoi said:

Those who were appointed to eternal life, did what? They believed.

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Yeah, so? It doesn't say they were appointed to believe. What don't you understand about that? According to John 3:16, those who believe are appointed to eternal life and, since God loves everyone in the world, all people get the opportunity to believe unto eternal life. Some resist the gospel and the promptings of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) and make themselves unworthy of eternal life as a result of their choice to reject the gospel (Acts 13:46). You can't say that they will not receive eternal life because God chose not to appoint them to eternal life. Scripture never teaches such a thing. Yet, that's what you believe. Instead, scripture teaches that God offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11), making the reason that some will not inherit eternal life is not because God didn't appoint them to it, but because they chose to reject God's offer of eternal life.

Dikaioumenoi said:

It is not believers who were appointed to eternal life on account of their belief.

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God appoints whoever believes to eternal life, as John 3:16 says. He doesn't just randomly appoint people to eternal life and then cause those people to believe, as you imagine. Instead, He graciously offers salvation and eternal life to all people and make everyone responsible to chooes whether to accept or reject His offer.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

It makes sense that God would offer salvation to all people since He so loves the world that He sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2) and He wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6).

Dikaioumenoi said:

It was those who were appointed to eternal life, who consequently believed on account of that appointment.

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Nope. That is not what it says. That's what you think it says, but it definitely doesn't actually say that.

Dikaioumenoi said:

That is the way the grammar reads. ὅσοι ("as many as") is the subject of both ἦσαν τεταγμένοι ("were appointed") and ἐπίστευσαν ("believed").

So two things are true of ὅσοι. (1) They believed, and (2) they were in the prior established state of "were appointed," at the moment they believed. Thus, the appointing precedes and qualifies the reason for their belief. It is ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι -- those characterized as the appointed ones -- who believed.

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Please don't pretend like you are a Greek expert. I am using ALL of scripture to back up my beliefs. Are you? Clearly not. I don't need a Greek lesson from you.

Dikaioumenoi said:

The contrast between v. 46 and 48 is between that of self-judgment and divine appointment. Self-judgment explains unbelief. Divine appointment explains belief. What "doesn't make sense" about that?

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What doesn't make sense about that is the idea that being judged unworthy of eternal life is based on man's choice, as Acts 13:46 implies, but being judged worthy of eternal life is God's choice, as you think Acts 13:48 implies. If you think that makes sense, I can't help you. Those things are contradictory. I'm not sure why you can't be honest about verse 46. Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge that you believe God judges people to be unworthy of eternal life rather than people judging themselves unworthy of eternal life, as Acts 13:46 indicates?

SabbathBlessings said:

There is no need to re-interpret what God spoke, it’s very plain all we need to do is believe.

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It’s not a matter of reinterpreting the scriptures, it a matter of interpreting them using sound hermeneutical practices which is something that has led to your demise. Both literary and historical contexts are important. You continue to use scriptures that is outside of both.

SabbathBlessings said:

Like I said, we have been through this too many times, its in God's hands. I am not interested in further discussion, its not fruitful, but I wish you well.

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So I guess you don’t have a verse that shows that the law was given to the church? Why not? After all, your argument relies on the church being given the law directly, right?

Always in His Presence said:

They can? Show me where the State or Federal Government can tell a company they can't close their doors.

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We were discussing the 90 day WARNing before mass layoffs.
Washington State also has a 'miniWARN'

When in doubt, vilify.

When no longer in doubt, keep vilifying no matter what because if you stop thats like admitting you were wrong. And this is a bad thing to be wrong about.

timf said:

Eugenics was popular in the 1930s. It didn't work out well for Germany.

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Darwinists like Reginald Punnett showed that the entire idea was mathematically flawed. It would take hundreds of years of Draconian control to remove harmful recessives from the population.

Vambram said:

The Obama FBI performed a political hit job against General Flynn.

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Flynn lied about his contacts with Russian agents. That is a fact.

Vambram said:

It is also a fact that Roger Stone was rail roaded by progressive liberal judges

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Information the Justice Department collected from Roger Stone’s iCloud accounts and email accounts and on computer hardware spans “several years,” special counsel Robert Mueller said Thursday.

As is required by law, the prosecutors will begin sharing the evidence against Stone that they collected with his legal defense team so he can prepare for a trial. Stone pleaded not guilty last week to seven counts of lying to Congress, obstruction of justice and witness tampering.

The evidence includes “multiple hard drives containing several terabytes of information consisting of, among other things, FBI case reports, search warrant applications and results (e.g., Apple iCloud accounts and email accounts), bank and financial records, and the contents of numerous physical devices (e.g., cellular phones, computers, and hard drives).”

The prosecutors say in the filing Thursday that the FBI seized electronic devices from Stone’s home, apartment and office.

No point in denial.

SabbathBlessings said:

Disagreeing with the plain Scriptures is not rebuking, most directly from the mouth of God. Jesus will be the Judge of everything. Nothing we can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14

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The scriptures are indeed from the mouth of God but your interpretations are not. I’m not disagreeing with God, you are. This response merely continues your Strawman since no one here is disagreeing with the scriptures themselves.

I’m going to give you a new assignment since you failed on the other two. Find a verse in scripture that shows that the law was given to the Christian church.

Abraham1st said:

We enter in by belief that God ceased from HIs works, and declared a holy day/sanctification/all was very good, Christ did the works of the Father then ceased from HIs works, sanctified Himself that we may also be sanctified by the truth.


Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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the ONLY VERSE that. concerns REST is. in. Heb 4;9. ,B There remains a REST for the PEOPLE of God and that means , Israel!!

dan p

Always in His Presence said:

It means EXACTLY what it says - our works - the things we do, what we say - are judged. We are saved.

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We are indeed saved but only as through fire
What does being saved only as through fire mean to you?

Always in His Presence said:

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

​

What does that mean? Does it mean after we leaving this life we are judged and then might have to spend sometime in jail (purgatory) until we get our act right? or does it mean exactly what it says?

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.​

​

One time - not after a jail sentence - one time.

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It means we are saved. But being saved does not mean that we will not experience God’s discipline. Isn’t the author of Hebrews writing to “saved” people when he says that when God disciplines us he is treating us like sons? Being saved does not mean we will not be disciplined by God to perfect us in holiness. Being completely sanctified is not optional.

If you leave this life and you are not perfected in holiness, not sure I would call it ‘jail’. But if you have not yet become “righteous made perfect” (Hebrews 12:23), God still has some work to do with you.

So say for example, Mr. X has held a grudge against his brother for many years due to a perceived wrong. Mr. X dies still holding that grudge. He hates his brother.

Do you really think Christ is going to say “Mr. X, you’re dead now so regardless of what sin you’re still attached to, heaven is open to you? Keep your grudge, hold on to your hatred because all the saved are welcome no matter what sin you bring with you?”

Or is Christ going to say we still have a little work to do don’t we? About that grudge….”

prodromos said:

The person, not the book.

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But the book of Jashar is. Job 10:13

I get eyestrain easy so I've been listening to the radio a little bit in the evening. There's a lot of Christian stations.

I have been watching a lot of college football.

I have been watching the Wano episodes of One Piece.

I have been watching theology videos on YouTube too

Always in His Presence said:

The teaching of purgatory - as already linked and shown - did not exist for 1,200 years of Christianity.

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I see above where you said based on a cursory AI search – “ The fully developed concept of purgatory, involving post-mortem fire and satisfaction for venial sins, emerged centuries later (formalized at the Second Council of Lyon in 1274 and the Council of Trent in the 16th century).”

That type of reasoning and scholarship is most problematic. It’s the same methodology used by the Jehovah Witnesses when they say that it is a “fact” that the dogma of the Trinity is based on a late 4th century “invention”. Why? Because the word “Trinity” does not appear in any Christian writings until the 3rd century and because the Catholic Church did not formalize the dogma of the Trinity until the 4th century.

No different is your reasoning here. It fails to recognize three key things:

• Just because we do not have a preserved writing that directly speaks to a teaching prior to a certain point in time, that is not evidence that the belief was not in place prior to that.
• Just because specific language is not used it does not mean that a belief was not conceptually reflected earlier than that.
• The Church quite often does not formalize a dogma until there is a heresy that has gained ground and needs to be addressed. The Arian heresy is what required the dogma of the Trinity to be formalized and made more precise and robust in the 4th century.

The other problem is that a cursory AI search is not true scholarship at all. For reference, if you do not have a copy of “An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine” by John Newman, it would be worth your time to acquire one. Regarding the doctrine of Purgatory, he begins with Clement of Alexandria (150-215AD) and talks about sins being purged by discipline (much likes Hebrews 12) and that “the necessity of this purifying discipline is such, that if it does not take place in this life, it must after death, and is then to be effected by fire, not by a destructive, but a discriminating fire, pervading the soul which passes through it.” Hmm, sounds like Purgatory to me.

For reference, the first complete and accurate listing of the books which comprise the New Testament is from Athanasius in 367, 150 years later. So to say that the conceptual understanding of a purifying fire after death is not a part of the belief of the early church is simply not true.

Newman continues with his citations, St. Cyprian (210-258), The Acts of the Martyrs, the Eucharistic prayer of the faithful in the 4th century, and St. Cyril (376-444). While he doesn’t reference St. Augustine (354-430) and St. John Chrysostom (347-407) both speak of our prayers being able to help the dead. To what avail would that be if they were believed to all be in heaven?

So in the interest of honest scholarship, it simply isn’t accurate to profess that the teaching of Purgatory didn’t exist for the first 1200 years of the Church. No more accurate than the Jehovah Witness claim that the teaching of the Trinity didn’t exist for the first 400 years of the Church. Same flawed scholarship leading to flawed conclusions in both examples.

bob121 said:

Paul says some of you are sick and dying because you gulp the Supper unworthily (1 Cor 11). Share the moment the bread and wine stopped being routine and started feeling dangerous.

What happened, and how did it change the way you prepare?

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I've never had a negative experience with the Eucharist. I have received miraculous healing though.

Well, it's very "Tristram Shandy" so far, so your consultants are at least cribbing from a tried-and-true model.

Dale said:

Try this.

<< Doha, Qatar; 30 April 2025 – Qatari Diar has signed an agreement with Dar Global to develop Trump International Golf Club, Doha includes a luxury 18-hole golf course, golf club and an exclusive collection of Trump-branded luxury villas, as part of the landmark Simaisma coastal project located 40 kilometres north of Doha.

Occupying approximately 790,000 square meters within the broader 8 million square meters of Simaisma development, this collaboration will deliver a world-class 18-hole Trump International Golf Course, a Trump Golf Clubhouse, and approximately high-end branded villas overlooking the golf and the beach with direct access to beach and neighbouring anticipated luxury lifestyle destinations. >>


Source
Dar Global and The Trump Organization Expand Partnership with New Luxury Golf and Villa Project within Simaisma Masterplan

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Looks like a pretty good business deal to me.

Vambram said:

You quoted opinion pieces from those left wing sources.

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Try this.

<< Doha, Qatar; 30 April 2025 – Qatari Diar has signed an agreement with Dar Global to develop Trump International Golf Club, Doha includes a luxury 18-hole golf course, golf club and an exclusive collection of Trump-branded luxury villas, as part of the landmark Simaisma coastal project located 40 kilometres north of Doha.

Occupying approximately 790,000 square meters within the broader 8 million square meters of Simaisma development, this collaboration will deliver a world-class 18-hole Trump International Golf Course, a Trump Golf Clubhouse, and approximately high-end branded villas overlooking the golf and the beach with direct access to beach and neighbouring anticipated luxury lifestyle destinations. >>


Source
Dar Global and The Trump Organization Expand Partnership with New Luxury Golf and Villa Project within Simaisma Masterplan

RileyG said:

Is that when Italians and Germans went to Argentina?

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That was the last wave.

peaceful-forest said:

My job takes up too much of my time. It's different than what it was 5 years ago. I wish I could find something that I absolutely enjoyed with a reputable company. I don't know what I'm going to do.

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What was it like 5 years ago?
What is your ideal job?

For America, a different economic direction is needed with tourism being economically irrelevant.

SabbathBlessings said:

This addresses the New Covenant perspective

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

The same c&p with the same verses that have been refuted over and over. Jesus is indeed God. Jesus did indeed create everything. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is perfectly capable and powerful to complete one covenant and give us another. He is perfectly...

www.christianforums.com

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

This isn't the Biblical definition of rest, but I will give some alternate Scriptures for consideration for those who might be interested. Christ fulfilled all of the law Does this mean we can steal or start worshiping other gods. Not according to Jesus who said this Mat5:17 and than said...

www.christianforums.com

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

This isn't the Biblical definition of rest, but I will give some alternate Scriptures for consideration for those who might be interested. Christ fulfilled all of the law Does this mean we can steal or start worshiping other gods. Not according to Jesus who said this Mat5:17 and than said...

www.christianforums.com

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But every single verse that you posted in those threads as well as your arguments have been thoroughly rebuked. Just because you won’t accept reality and continue to post the same tired arguments are not going make them true.

essentialsaltes said:

If the US government can, and state governments can, why can't the city?

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They can? Show me where the State or Federal Government can tell a company they can't close their doors.

essentialsaltes said:

We could have had taco trucks on every corner.

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Really? Free Taco's! Where?

Apple Sky said:

Doesn't mean it's no true as Enoch is mentioned in Scripture.

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The person, not the book.

Vambram said:

The Obama FBI performed a political hit job against General Flynn.

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Is that why he pleaded guilty, because it was political hit job?

DaisyDay said:

I don't know what to make of that.

For the Christian nationalists, when it comes to immigration, old Europe is probably less religious than South Americans, but South/Central Americans are the wrong sort of people (or so I hear tell). Otoh, after WWII, an awful lot of old Europeans went to Argentina, so maybe if South Africa doesn't produce enough workers for us, we can get them from there? Just musing....

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Is that when Italians and Germans went to Argentina?