Wicked Lose your salvation Documentary on YouTube promoting a works based salvation

[B Griffin]

You're not getting it. Those who say they can sin and still be saved are no different than unbelievers who justify sin and claim to believe in God.

Now you're promoting sinless perfection?

This describes any believer who rejects Conditional Salvation or the view that sin can separate us from God (unless one confesses and forsakes their sin).

Ok now there is a crack in your doctrine. So sinning is ok as long as it is confessed and forsaken? How many times in a person's life can he commit a particular sin, confess it and forsake it and still be saved? Two times at most (one for initial salvation and the other one a second chance)? How long would it take the typical person to run out of second chances?

1 Timothy 5:8 says if you do not provide for your own you have denied the faith, and are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). ONLY a believer can be worse than an unbeliever! So this is not talking about some kind of false believer pretending to be a believer. Jesus warned against how looking upon a woman in lust can cause one to be cast bodily into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). This is not possible according to popular Christianity.

Good example. Adultery is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the eyes or any other body part). How many times can a person have lust in their heart, confess it, and forsake it and still be saved? Once or twice? More than that it's a habbit, right?

Concerning Matthew 15:19-20:

Notice the word "defile" in the passage.

1 Timothy 1:10 (KJV)
"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

1 Timothy 1:18-19 (KJV)
18 "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou bythem mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:"

So those who defile themselves (who believe they can sin and be saved)

Are you putting yourself in this category since you think you can sin and be saved as long as you confess it and forsake it?

are not waging a good warfare and holding on to faith with a good conscience.

This would be fine if you fought a good fight and held onto faith with a good conscience as long as you don't fail at it. But if you fail at it, forgiveness is the only thing that can save you from damnation.

This is not true.

Yes it is. Obedience to the law only counts in your favor if you are obedient without fail. When you fail, you need forgiveness.

I have heard those who believe as you do say they sin all the time or they cannot help but to sin or they use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse that they must sin again at some point again (and yet they no doubt will claim they are saved even while they will sin again).

So you have the answer... a person loses his salvation when he sins but can gain it back if he confesses it and forsakes it. I am sure there are many people with this belief that need to be saved multiple times every year. Anecdotally, I heard a famous preacher from Texas say he once went as many as 3 days without committing a single sin. Even then, I'd day 1 sin every 3 days over a lifetime constitutes habitual sin, even if it is follwed with confession and repentence every time.

Even if you lived liked a saint, if you believe even one sin can be justified (i.e., meaning you can sin and still be saved), then that is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

But saying sin is ok as long as it is followed by confession and repentance is almost the same thing. The only difference is salvation was interrupted for a short time and restoration was earned by good behavior.

Remember, it only took one sin for the fall to happen. It only takes one sin of murder to happen in order to be considered a murderer, etcetera.

Correct. Murder is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the mouth or any other body part). One sin and you're out. But, let's don't just include murder and adultery. Let's also include loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Any breach whatsoever of these two greatest of all commandments would cause a person to lose his salvation. How many times can a person confess and repent for breaking these commandments and regain his salvation?

Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" (Mt 22:37–38)​

In other words, the problem is in rejecting the Word of God on the teaching of sin and salvation as God has described in His Word that is the real problem. Saying one can sin and be saved on any level is turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

But it is not if it is followed by confession and repentance?

Meaning, the true believers who do not justify sin are those who believe the Bible’s teaching on Conditional Salvation.

Meaning salvation is lost upon committing one sin but can be gained back with confession and repentance? I don't think that is what most people mean by "Conditional Salvation".

OSAS is an excuse to sin no matter how people try to spin it. The Bible does not teach Unconditional Eternal Security.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one. (Jn 10:27–30)​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Out of curiosity, what would you say are the essential conditions that must be met in order to be saved? Thank you.

See my thread here:

Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

The Two Aspects of Salvation: (Believers Need to Be Concerned With): #1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation). (The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer). Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones...

www.christianforums.com

 

[bbbbbbb]

See my thread here:

Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

The Two Aspects of Salvation: (Believers Need to Be Concerned With): #1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation). (The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer). Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones...

www.christianforums.com

Thank you. Out of curiosity, what did you do this past Saturday?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now you're promoting sinless perfection?

Not all sin is the same.
See this thread here:

Sins Not Unto Death

Sins Not Unto Death: Important Note: Please keep in mind that I am not trying to trivialize sin. I believe after we are saved by God's grace that we must live holy as a part of God's plan of salvation. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Believers cannot justify sin that leads...

www.christianforums.com

Ok now there is a crack in your doctrine. So sinning is ok as long as it is confessed and forsaken? How many times in a person's life can he commit a particular sin, confess it and forsake it and still be saved? Two times at most (one for initial salvation and the other one a second chance)? How long would it take the typical person to run out of second chances?

Good example. Adultery is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the eyes or any other body part). How many times can a person have lust in their heart, confess it, and forsake it and still be saved? Once or twice? More than that it's a habbit, right?

Are you putting yourself in this category since you think you can sin and be saved as long as you confess it and forsake it?

This would be fine if you fought a good fight and held onto faith with a good conscience as long as you don't fail at it. But if you fail at it, forgiveness is the only thing that can save you from damnation.

When I say "forsake sin," it is to overcome that sin. If a believer keeps sinning and never overcome their sin and they die in that state, they are not going to make it into God's Kingdom. This applies to me, you, and every other believer throughout history and today. I truly wish things were different, but this is simply the reality of how things are according to the Bible. Fortunately, we are not alone, and we do have the Lord to help us to win the battle against sin in this life. Try reading 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1. Either you will seek to speak against these verses or you will simply believe them.

Yes it is. Obedience to the law only counts in your favor if you are obedient without fail. When you fail, you need forgiveness.

You are misinterpreting Romans 2:13. Paul is talking about the Old Law and not the Laws of Christ. Try reading 2 Corinthians 9:21.
In addition, you do not appear to realize that the Bible teaches that believers have to keep a particular Law to be saved.

1 John 3:23
"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

So we have to keep this above law or commandment that tells us believers to believe on the name of Jesus Christ.
Surely believing on the name of Jesus Christ is for salvation, and it is a command (law), right?

So you have the answer... a person loses his salvation when he sins but can gain it back if he confesses it and forsakes it. I am sure there are many people with this belief that need to be saved multiple times every year.

Obviously, you did not understand the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32), or James 5:19-20.

When the prodigal son came home and desired to seek forgiveness with his father, his father had said that his son was "DEAD" and he is "ALIVE AGAIN." Surely, the prodigal son did not physically die and come back to life from the grave. So this parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The prodigal son was spiritually dead when he was living it up with prostitutes, and he became "alive AGAIN" spiritually due to his seeking forgiveness with his father (which is a parallel of the Everlasting Father - Jesus Christ).

Anecdotally, I heard a famous preacher from Texas say he once went as many as 3 days without committing a single sin. Even then, I'd day 1 sin every 3 days over a lifetime constitutes habitual sin, even if it is follwed with confession and repentence every time.

With man this is impossible, but with God, nothing is impossible.

But saying sin is ok as long as it is followed by confession and repentance is almost the same thing. The only difference is salvation was interrupted for a short time and restoration was earned by good behavior.

Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Correct. Murder is committed in the heart before it is acted upon physically (with the mouth or any other body part). One sin and you're out. But, let's don't just include murder and adultery. Let's also include loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. Any breach whatsoever of these two greatest of all commandments would cause a person to lose his salvation. How many times can a person confess and repent for breaking these commandments and regain his salvation?

Did you read and believe Luke 10:25-28 lately? Perhaps you missed this part of the Bible.
Jesus did not correct the lawyer and tell him to only believe on the finished work of the cross.
That's an unbiblical saying made up by church folk. Go ahead and read the passage.
It’s not comforting. I am sure you will not like what the Lord Jesus Christ says.

Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’" (Mt 22:37–38)​

But it is not if it is followed by confession and repentance?

Meaning salvation is lost upon committing one sin but can be gained back with confession and repentance? I don't think that is what most people mean by "Conditional Salvation".

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one. (Jn 10:27–30)​

Notice the beginning words of our Lord Jesus. He says, "My sheep... follow me."
This is the condition to never perishing. If you follow Jesus and hear his voice, then you will never perish.
The condition is NOT... ignore the shepherd's voice and run in the opposite direction and you still will never perish. That's not what it says. In other words, if we meet the condition of hearing His voice, and following Jesus in this life, then we will never perish. But if we do the opposite of that, we will perish because the Bible warns even us believers that sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife.
If one believes they can sin and still be saved, one is not following Jesus or hearing His voice.
Paul said we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).
Jesus never thought He could commit sin that the Father condemned and enter physically into the Kingdom again.
Do you have the mind of Christ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you.

Your welcome.

Out of curiosity, what did you do this past Saturday?

I am not big on talking about my personal life on the internet.
Not everyone on the internet is looking to be nice.
I come here on the forums to talk about the Bible, my friend.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am not big on talking about my personal life on the internet. I come here on the forums to talk about the Bible, my friend.

As I am sure you are aware, the sixth commandment of the Ten Commandments is in the Bible. It states, "Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy." It is a sin to not keep the Sabbath holy. If you broke the Sabbath this past Saturday, you sinned, at least according to the Bible.

I am here to discuss the Bible and you are the individual who believes in conditional salvation - being sinless. I am curious to know if you are a garden-variety sinner like most of us here at CF, who are saved by God's grace, or if you are somehow a special sinner.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I am sure you are aware, the sixth commandment of the Ten Commandments is in the Bible. It states, "Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy." It is a sin to not keep the Sabbath holy. If you broke the Sabbath this past Saturday, you sinned, at least according to the Bible.

When I was a new Christian, I used to be confused about which laws to keep in the Bible. I used to think we had to keep the Laws of Moses and the Laws of Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please stop right now and read Acts 15:1-21, Hebrews 7:12, and Romans 6:14 in the King James Bible. Note: I like Biblehub.com for my online reading because it is friendly on the eyes and the KJV has chapter verse breakdowns. Anyway, there are more verses than these but this should give you a groundwork of understanding that Christians are not under the 613 Laws of Moses. Yes, some laws have been repeated or carried over into the New Covenant (like, Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera), but the New Covenant actually tells us that we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. Colossians 2:14-17 is a big one. Paul says in Colossians 2:17 that we are not to let others judge us on whether we keep the Sabbaths or not. Furthermore, Paul told the Galatians that he was afraid for them in the fact that they kept days, months, and years (Please see: Galatians 4:9-11). No, actually stop replying and read the passage.

Important Note:

Please read all these verses above very slowly in the KJV (preferably Biblehub) before replying back to me.

I am here to discuss the Bible and you are the individual who believes in conditional salvation

Well, if you have been reading the Bible for any length of time, you would already know that the Bible teaches Conditional Salvation unless you simply rejected the many verses in the Bible because you did not like what they said.

1 John 1:7 is a conditional salvation statement. Please stop right now and read it very slowly in the KJV.
1 Timothy 5:8 is another conditional salvation statement.
Galatians 6:8-9 is another conditional salvation statement.

Also, ask God the Father to reveal to you by the Holy Spirit these verses while you read them.

- being sinless. I am curious to know if you are a garden-variety sinner like most of us here at CF, who are saved by God's grace, or if you are somehow a special sinner.

Whether I lived like a saint, or struggled with sin in the past, or sinned on super rare occasions unintentionally, at the end of the day we cannot change what God’s Word says. My life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard. I mean, I get it. I wish OSAS was true. I wish Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism was the way God did things today, but this is simply not the case if you believe ALL of what the Bible says. You have to be honest with yourself when reading the Scriptures. But most today are just interested in following commentaries or what their preacher says. Many today put some man as their filter of learning and they then read the Bible with that filter in their minds. They love that stupid made-up saying, “Just believe on the finished work of the cross” when no such statement exists in the Bible. Try reading the New Testament with a fresh pair of eyes in the New Testament and do not try to read into what the text actually says. Just read it, and believe it at face value. Ask God to give you the Spirit so as to understand the text, and you will be shocked at what the Bible actually says.

Have you ever read Matthew 13:41-42 lately?

You should. If you understood what it said, you would be scared out of your mind.
It is saying that the Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). This ties in with another statement made by our Lord Jesus in John 8.

”…Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever” (John 8:34-35).

Not sure you caught what our Lord said. He said that the servant of sin will not abide in the house forever. Meaning, the house of Christ (God). See, this ties in with Matthew 13:41-42 where we see Jesus telling His angels to gather out of His Kingdom all who do iniquity whereby they will be cast into the furnace of fire.

See, Jesus has to gather out all those who are justifying sin in His Kingdom before He gives His Kingdom to God the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:24
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

 

[B Griffin]

Not all sin is the same.

Please keep in mind that I am not trying to trivialize sin. I believe after we are saved by God's grace that we must live holy as a part of God's plan of salvation. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Believers cannot justify sin that leads to spiritual death, condemnation, or hellfire. For I believe we should obey the Lord in all things. For I want to stress that there are grievous sins (or death sins) like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc. that can lead even a believer to being condemned in the Lake of Fire if such sins are not repented of (i.e. if these sins are not confessed or forsaken).​

Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Your views on sin and holiness are ambiguous. You think a person is holy if they only commit little sins? Or, if they commit sins that lead to death (like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc.), they are holy if they repent of them? Under the normal definition of "holy", if a person is a sinner, he is not considered holy.

Notice the beginning words of our Lord Jesus. He says, "My sheep... follow me."
This is the condition to never perishing. If you follow Jesus and hear his voice, then you will never perish.
The condition is NOT... ignore the shepherd's voice and run in the opposite direction and you still will never perish. That's not what it says. In other words, if we meet the condition of hearing His voice, and following Jesus in this life, then we will never perish. But if we do the opposite of that, we will perish because the Bible warns even us believers that sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife.
If one believes they can sin and still be saved, one is not following Jesus or hearing His voice.
Paul said we have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16).
Jesus never thought He could commit sin that the Father condemned and enter physically into the Kingdom again.
Do you have the mind of Christ?

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Eph 4:20–24)​

There are a few things in Ephesians 4:20-24 which contradict your POV on sin and holiness.

First, you will notice that there is a difference between the old man and the new man. The old man gets worse over time as he "grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts". The new man sinful and sin does not come from his heart because he is "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness".

Second, if we hear Him, are taught by Him, and walk as He leads, then we will be 1) puting off the old man and 2) puting on the new man. It doesn't say the true righteousness and holiness of the new man is dependent on our works to make it so. It says we are to live out the true righteousness and holiness that was created by God in us when He made us new creations.

Finally, we who have "learned Christ" understand that the flesh, with all its corruption, still exists. It is still belongs to us, and it is our "flesh". It cannot be sluffed off or blamed on someone else. The sins which proceed from out of the flesh are our own sins. Fortunately, there is a day when we will be completely free of the flesh. Until then, 1) we choose to let His grace be sufficient for us, and 2) we endeavor to walk in the Spirit in order to not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

Not understanding the true righteousness and holiness we have in Christ leads a person to create his own righteousness through obedience to the law.

 

[bbbbbbb]

When I was a new Christian, I used to be confused about which laws to keep in the Bible. I used to think we had to keep the Laws of Moses and the Laws of Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please stop right now and read Acts 15:1-21, Hebrews 7:12, and Romans 6:14 in the King James Bible. Note: I like Biblehub.com for my online reading because it is friendly on the eyes and the KJV has chapter verse breakdowns. Anyway, there are more verses than these but this should give you a groundwork of understanding that Christians are not under the 613 Laws of Moses. Yes, some laws have been repeated or carried over into the New Covenant (like, Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera), but the New Covenant actually tells us that we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. Colossians 2:14-17 is a big one. Paul says in Colossians 2:17 that we are not to let others judge us on whether we keep the Sabbaths or not. Furthermore, Paul told the Galatians that he was afraid for them in the fact that they kept days, months, and years (Please see: Galatians 4:9-11). No, actually stop replying and read the passage.

Important Note:

Please read all these verses above very slowly in the KJV (preferably Biblehub) before replying back to me.


Well, if you have been reading the Bible for any length of time, you would already know that the Bible teaches Conditional Salvation unless you simply rejected the many verses in the Bible because you did not like what they said.

1 John 1:7 is a conditional salvation statement. Please stop right now and read it very slowly in the KJV.
1 Timothy 5:8 is another conditional salvation statement.
Galatians 6:8-9 is another conditional salvation statement.

Also, ask God the Father to reveal to you by the Holy Spirit these verses while you read them.



Whether I lived like a saint, or struggled with sin in the past, or sinned on super rare occasions unintentionally, at the end of the day we cannot change what God’s Word says. My life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard. I mean, I get it. I wish OSAS was true. I wish Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism was the way God did things today, but this is simply not the case if you believe ALL of what the Bible says. You have to be honest with yourself when reading the Scriptures. But most today are just interested in following commentaries or what their preacher says. Many today put some man as their filter of learning and they then read the Bible with that filter in their minds. They love that stupid made-up saying, “Just believe on the finished work of the cross” when no such statement exists in the Bible. Try reading the New Testament with a fresh pair of eyes in the New Testament and do not try to read into what the text actually says. Just read it, and believe it at face value. Ask God to give you the Spirit so as to understand the text, and you will be shocked at what the Bible actually says.

Have you ever read Matthew 13:41-42 lately?

You should. If you understood what it said, you would be scared out of your mind.
It is saying that the Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS KINGDOM all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). This ties in with another statement made by our Lord Jesus in John 8.

”…Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever” (John 8:34-35).

Not sure you caught what our Lord said. He said that the servant of sin will not abide in the house forever. Meaning, the house of Christ (God). See, this ties in with Matthew 13:41-42 where we see Jesus telling His angels to gather out of His Kingdom all who do iniquity whereby they will be cast into the furnace of fire.

See, Jesus has to gather out all those who are justifying sin in His Kingdom before He gives His Kingdom to God the Father.

1 Corinthians 15:24
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”

Ah, I see now. You have determined which commandments of God are useless and unnecessary and which you have decided to obey. Forget the idea of loving your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ah, I see now. You have determined which commandments of God are useless and unnecessary and which you have decided to obey. Forget the idea of loving your neighbor as yourself.

So you did not read Acts 15 then.
Either that or you did not understand what it said.
If you go back and read Acts 15, it addresses your comment here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your views on sin and holiness are ambiguous. You think a person is holy if they only commit little sins? Or, if they commit sins that lead to death (like murder, hate, adultery, lying, etc.), they are holy if they repent of them? Under the normal definition of "holy", if a person is a sinner, he is not considered holy.

I did not write the Bible. God did. Jesus makes a distinction between sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, and a sin that leads to hellfire in Matthew 5:22.

"But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22) (AMP)

What do you think 1 John 5:16-17 even means when it talks about the sin that does not lead to death? Does it mean that all sin is the same regarding punishment as most of Christianity teaches?

But I told you before, that a Christian must confess and forsake sin. This means that they are to at some point in this life overcome sin and not justify it like the majority of Christianity does. Most Christians today believe they will sin again as a matter of fact, and they will be saved even when they do so again. No remorse or turning from sin factors into this. Just believe on the imaginary Christian saying that states, "Just believe on the finish work of the cross."

20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. (Eph 4:20–24)​

There are a few things in Ephesians 4:20-24 which contradict your POV on sin and holiness.

First, you will notice that there is a difference between the old man and the new man. The old man gets worse over time as he "grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts". The new man sinful and sin does not come from his heart because he is "created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness".

Uh, keep reading. In Ephesians 5:3-5 Paul lists various sins and then says no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

You are also burying your head in the sand to other obvious Conditional Salvation Verses. 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, 1 Timothy 5:8, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13, and more.

Second, if we hear Him, are taught by Him, and walk as He leads, then we will be 1) puting off the old man and 2) puting on the new man. It doesn't say the true righteousness and holiness of the new man is dependent on our works to make it so. It says we are to live out the true righteousness and holiness that was created by God in us when He made us new creations.

Again, it does not matter. You're wasting your time even doing this because you have the wrong mindset and view about sin and salvation that runs contrary to Scripture. You teach others can abide in sin and be saved and so any level of holy living is for nothing. You cannot do good one day or for a few hours and then turn around and lead people into the pit by saying they can sin and be saved by a belief alone in Jesus.

Finally, we who have "learned Christ" understand that the flesh, with all its corruption, still exists. It is still belongs to us, and it is our "flesh". It cannot be sluffed off or blamed on someone else. The sins which proceed from out of the flesh are our own sins. Fortunately, there is a day when we will be completely free of the flesh. Until then, 1) we choose to let His grace be sufficient for us, and 2) we endeavor to walk in the Spirit in order to not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

And hence, the contradiction in your belief system.

Not understanding the true righteousness and holiness we have in Christ leads a person to create his own righteousness through obedience to the law.

The many laws of Christ given to us by Him, and His followers, and not the 613 Laws of Moses.
Generally when Paul refers to the "law" generically, it is a reference to the Old Law and not the Laws of Christ.

 

[B Griffin]

I did not write the Bible. God did. Jesus makes a distinction between sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, and a sin that leads to hellfire in Matthew 5:22.

"But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell." (Matthew 5:22) (AMP)

You are greatly mistaken. None of the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1-7:29) is about a person being hauled off to human courts. Every single thing He said was to clarify that holiness and righteousness cannot be accomplished by narowly following the letter of the law. The spirit of the law must be fulfilled in total, including even the thoughts and intents of the heart. He summed up the righteousness that comes through obedience to the law in one sentence when He said, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Mt 5:48)

You teach others can abide in sin and be saved

No, that is not what I teach at all. I teach people that they do not abide in the flesh but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in them (Romans 8:9) and since the live in the Spirit they should also walk in lock step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:25).

and so any level of holy living is for nothing.

No, that is not what I teach eaither. I teach people that only one level of holy living counts for anything. He says you must be perfect. But you say it isn't so.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are greatly mistaken. None of the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1-7:29) is about a person being hauled off to human courts.

Please go back and read Matthew 5:22 in the Amplified Translation. The punishment of the Court and Supreme Court sounds a lot different than hellfire to me.

Every single thing He said was to clarify that holiness and righteousness cannot be accomplished by narowly following the letter of the law.

If I had a dime every time I heard this unbiblical belief over the years.

Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).

Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in an overly spiritualistic interpretation instead of reading it literally or plainly (i.e., read the Bible as a metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is about the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context refers to the two different ways each of these covenants began, and it's not talking about the letter in general, like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrongdoing but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit will not guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way, and if you do, it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law, it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sins or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. Obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partial fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our way of thinking vs. simply following what God's Word says.

Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).

Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in an overly spiritualistic interpretation instead of reading it literally or plainly (i.e., read the Bible as a metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is about the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context refers to the two different ways each of these covenants began, and it's not talking about the letter in general, like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrongdoing but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit will not guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way, and if you do, it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law, it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sins or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. Obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partial fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our own way of thinking vs. simply following what God's Word says.

He said, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Mt 5:48)

And what is the context of being perfect as the Father? If you read the context, it gives you certain instructions. It is not just a general sense of being perfect. There are certain things Jesus said in order to be perfect as the Father.

No, that is not what I teach at all. I teach people that they do not abide in the flesh but in the Spirit if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in them (Romans 8:9) and since the live in the Spirit they should also walk in lock step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:25).

Well, you either just hit your head and forgot what you said in your previous post or you are not being consistent with your belief here. You said, I quote:

"It cannot be sluffed off or blamed on someone else. The sins which proceed from out of the flesh are our own sins. Fortunately, there is a day when we will be completely free of the flesh"​

So this means you believe you can commit sin on some level that the Bible condemns and still be saved.

No, that is not what I teach eaither. I teach people that only one level of holy living counts for anything. He says you must be perfect. But you say it isn't so.

Your not getting it. I am not speaking from your perspective or wrong belief. I am speaking from the Biblical view in the fact that your belief does not exist because the Bible teaches Conditional Salvation in many places. I am saying that your effort in living holy is for nothing if you don't believe the Bible's proper teaching on sin and salvation. The Bible does not teach to just believe alone in Jesus and do nothing else to be saved. Yet, this is the predominant belief in Christianity (Which is unbiblical).

 

[B Griffin]

Please go back and read Matthew 5:22 in the Amplified Translation. The punishment of the Court and Supreme Court sounds a lot different than hellfire to me.


If I had a dime every time I heard this unbiblical belief over the years.

Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).

Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in an overly spiritualistic interpretation instead of reading it literally or plainly (i.e., read the Bible as a metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is about the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context refers to the two different ways each of these covenants began, and it's not talking about the letter in general, like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrongdoing but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit will not guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way, and if you do, it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law, it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sins or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. Obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partial fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our way of thinking vs. simply following what God's Word says.

Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).

Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in an overly spiritualistic interpretation instead of reading it literally or plainly (i.e., read the Bible as a metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is about the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context refers to the two different ways each of these covenants began, and it's not talking about the letter in general, like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrongdoing but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit will not guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way, and if you do, it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law, it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sins or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. Obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partial fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our own way of thinking vs. simply following what God's Word says.

And what is the context of being perfect as the Father? If you read the context, it gives you certain instructions. It is not just a general sense of being perfect. There are certain things Jesus said in order to be perfect as the Father.

Well, you either just hit your head and forgot what you said in your previous post or you are not being consistent with your belief here. You said, I quote:

"It cannot be sluffed off or blamed on someone else. The sins which proceed from out of the flesh are our own sins. Fortunately, there is a day when we will be completely free of the flesh"​

So this means you believe you can commit sin on some level that the Bible condemns and still be saved.

Your not getting it. I am not speaking from your perspective or wrong belief. I am speaking from the Biblical view in the fact that your belief does not exist because the Bible teaches Conditional Salvation in many places. I am saying that your effort in living holy is for nothing if you don't believe the Bible's proper teaching on sin and salvation. The Bible does not teach to just believe alone in Jesus and do nothing else to be saved. Yet, this is the predominant belief in Christianity (Which is unbiblical).

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Ga 5:4)​

Conditional Salvation is an oxymoron. When anyone thinks he earns salvation trough lawfare, it demonstrates that he has become estranged from Christ and has fallen from grace. In the grandest of all ironies, his doctrine then forces him to believe he lost his salvation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Ga 5:4)​

Conditional Salvation is an oxymoron. When anyone thinks he earns salvation trough lawfare, it demonstrates that he has become estranged from Christ and has fallen from grace. In the grandest of all ironies, his doctrine then forces him to believe he lost his salvation.

The general exceptions are those who possess amazing amounts of chutzpah and selectively draw up their own sets of commandments which they believe they are keeping, usually to the exclusion of those who disagree. A classic case is the SDA with its form of Saturday rituals which thereby set them above and apart from all other, lesser folks.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Ga 5:4)​

You are not looking at the context of which law Paul is referring to here.
Galatians 5:2 says, "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
Paul was fighting against the heresy of what I call, "Circumcision Salvationism" which we see described in Acts 15.

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved." (Acts 15:1).

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts 15:5).

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts 15:24).

So Paul was obviously referring to how we cannot be justified by the Old Law.

Are you justified by keeping the following law or commandment below?

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23).

Conditional Salvation is an oxymoron.

Then you have not been listening to what the Bible actually says.

Want to know that you TRULY are cleansed by the Blood of Jesus and that you TRULY have true fellowship with other believers? – 1 John 1:5-7
Want to know that you TRULY know Him? – 1 John 2:3-4
Want to know that you TRULY are in Him? – 1 John 2:5
Want to know that you TRULY are righteous like Jesus? – 1 John 3:7-8
Want to know that you TRULY are born of God? – 1 John 3:9
Want to know that you TRULY are a child of God? – 1 John 3:10
Want to have you heart ASSURED? – 1 John 3:18-19
Want to know that you TRULY love Jesus? – John 14:15, John 14:21
Want to know that you TRULY are a friend of Jesus? – John 15:14
Want to know that He is TRULY your Lord? – Matthew 7:21
Want assurance that your house is TRULY built upon the Rock? – Matthew 7:24-25
Want assurance that you TRULY will enter into the New Jerusalem? – Revelation 22:14-15
Want assurance that you have TRUE Faith? – James 2:19-20
Want to know if you have the TRUE Grace of God – Titus 2:11-12
Want to know whether or not your “tree” is “good”? – Matthew 12:33-37
Want to know if you are REALLY His? – 2 Timothy 2:19
Want to know whether you are TRULY a Son of God? – Romans 8:13-14

In the video below, Kerrigan Skelly talks about these pieces of Scripture: Ezekiel 33, John 15, Romans 11, 1 Corinthians 9-10, Hebrews 3-4 & 2 Peter 2. These passages emphatically prove that the Doctrine of Conditional Security is BIBLICAL!

When anyone thinks he earns salvation trough lawfare, it demonstrates that he has become estranged from Christ and has fallen from grace. In the grandest of all ironies, his doctrine then forces him to believe he lost his salvation.

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,


Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation (either permantly or temporarily):

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)


And here is a list of potential fallen believers:


The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)


In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as OSAS folk say.


Source used:

Conditional Security Proven From The Bible! Part 1 – Assurance of Salvation by Kerrigan Skelly

Below is a new video, where I teach on the Biblical Doctrine of Conditional Security. This is actually the fourth teaching of five, on this topic. The previous three were devoted to properly inte…

kerriganskelly.com

 

[bbbbbbb]

The really comforting reality is that one can never fall away from or lose something one never had. I have never owned a yacht, and never intend to, so it is impossible for me to lose it. Thus, for the multitude of folks who will never ever even hear the name of Jesus Christ, it is impossible for them to lose their salvation. That is security, if ever there was.

 

[B Griffin]

The general exceptions are those who possess amazing amounts of chutzpah and selectively draw up their own sets of commandments which they believe they are keeping, usually to the exclusion of those who disagree. A classic case is the SDA with its form of Saturday rituals which thereby set them above and apart from all other, lesser folks.

I once oriented myself to God through obeying the law. I found that it was impossible to slim down the requirements of the law sufficiently to avoid condemnation for breaking it. It is impossible to reduce the law to a small enough number or to reduce its applicability to a small enough number of circumstances so that your obedience rises to the level that God accepts you on the basis of your obedience. Eventually, no matter how hard you try, you find yourself on your kneed at the feet of Jesus asking for forgiveness.

Why is this so? Because the Scripture does not say in vain that if you place yourself under the law you are obligated to perform all the law. As a result, any attempt to lighten the requirements of the law is met with God puting on you and letting you feel the entire weight of the law. Eventually, even the "strongest" Christian breaks down and admits he is a sinner in need of a savior and that his good works havn't saved him. The smart ones stay on their knees at the feet of Jesus and don't pick back up the law and attempt to please Him through their obedience.

 

[B Griffin]

You are not looking at the context of which law Paul is referring to here.

I do know a bit about the context. It's not only about circumcision, though circumcision is related. He wrote the letter to address law-oriented Christian living (as opposed to Christ-centered Christian living). I could quote and rightly explain several sections of Galatians to prove that point.

So Paul was obviously referring to how we cannot be justified by the Old Law.

You have already conceeded that the OT law that is anchored by the 10 Commandments is included in the NT law that Jesus commanded us to fulfill when you referred to the sermon on the mount where Jesus discussed murder, adultery, bearing false witness, and more. He didn't lighten the OT law, He said it not only applies to our physical actions, but the thoughts and intents of our hearts.

Are you justified by keeping the following law or commandment below?

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23).

No. If you seek to be justified by obedience to law, you have fallen from grace and are estranged from Christ. It doesn't matter what kind of law you construct that through obedience to it you become justified. Any attempt to be justified by law reveals that you are creating distance between you and the salvific work of Christ on the cross (estrangement from Christ) and that you are not counting fully on Him and His unmerited favor (fallen from grace).

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Ga 5:4)​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Was circumcision a part of the Old Testament Laws of Moses or was it a law that is a part of the New Covenant teachings of Jesus Christ?
Notice again, Galatians 5:4 and Galatians 5:2. When Paul speaks of the Law in Galatians 5:4, he is referring to the Old Law because he brings up how if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. This obviously ties into the Jerusalem counsel in Acts 15. A certain group of Jews were trying to get Gentile Christians to be circumcised to be saved and to keep the Laws of Moses, which the counsel concluded that they did not give these Gentile Christians any such command. So when Paul refers to the Law generically, he is referring to the laws under the Old Covenant system through Moses that we are not under anymore. In addition, there are lots of conditional statements or warnings given to Christians, as well. For example: My guess is most here reject what 1 John 1:7 says plainly. You don’t really believe you have to walk in the light for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin. You don’t believe this verse because you believe outside traditions of men that give you an easier wide gate path message. Do you even know that the Bible tells you to strive to enter the straight gate? How are you striving to enter the straight gate? Your not. Hence, your belief in OSAS or Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism is unbiblical. Yes, we can be saved by God’s grace through faith, but this is in our Initial Salvation. Faith continues in the Sanctification of the Spirit and following Jesus. If you have a faith that justifies sin, you are on the man-made wide gate path.