WHAT IS 1 PETER 3:21 REALLY SATING TO US ??

[Dan Perez]

Show me a sign for good... You, Lord, have helped me and comforted me. Ps 86:17

We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the Lord of hosts; Isaiah 8:17-20

For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH; Zechariah 3:7-8

Attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know...
it was impossible for Him to be held in death’s power. Acts 2:21-25

And 2 Cor 5:7 For we walk by FAITH and NOT // OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and NOT means never walk by SIGHT !!
dan p

 

[Clare73]

Yes, I see this comment all the time on CF. The greek word for symbol is symbolia and it is not found in the NT nor in the LXX. So the text does not "continually refers to baptism as a symbol." The NIV is the only English translation to refer ANTITYPON as "symbol" which of course they got alot of grief over it. I don't know if New NIV corrected this error. Accoridngly, when Baptism is regulated to a mere "symbol" here at CF it ususally means something like an empty sign signifying nothing.

I'm confused. . .how does a symbol (sign) signify nothing and still be a sign?

I have found it is best to understand I Peter 3:21 via type and anti-type hermenuetics.

And it doesn't seem to be a matter of type and anti-type, but simply a matter of two types--Genesis and baptism being types of the same thing; our death, burial and resurrection in our identification with Christ.

antitupose (figure, 1 Pe 3:20-21)--copy of an archetype. . .baptism, a copy of the archetype (flood, ark, occupants), they likewise being an archetype (symbol) of the death, burial, resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.

Baptism depicts graphically what happened as the result of the Christian's union with Christ through faith--we were united with Christ, just as at our natural birth we were united with Adam. And as we died as a result of our union with (the first) Adam, so through faith we are raised to eternal life as a result of our union with (the second Adam), Christ--which death, burial and resurrection with Christ is signified in baptism, as it is also signified in the flood, ark and its saved occupants.

If by empty sign, you mean no spiritual reality actually takes place, where does spiritual reality ever take place in any sign?
Signs simply point to the reality, they are not the reality themselves.
The animal sacrifices did not remit sin, they only covered sin (Ro 4:7) uintil their true remittance on the cross.

 

[Dan Perez]

Scripture does not contradict itself and where it appears to do so, it is not being understood correctly, and should be interpreted in agreement with all Scripture. To wit:

The text of 1 Pe 3:20-21 reads: ". . .the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, an ark being prepared in which a few, this is eight souls, were quite saved through water. Which figure also now saves us, that is baptism, not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but an answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

When you consider the grammatical construction of Peter's context above in Noah and the ark,
baptism is a figure/symbol of the water/flood which saved eight people in the ark, where
the flood is a figure of baptism and baptism is a figure of salvation, in that in both instances (baptism, flood)

the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood--the death of the wicked; in baptism--the death of Christ and the believer, Ro 6:2-4)
is the water that saves.

The flood symbolized baptism which symbolizes Christ's death (judgment) and resurrection which saves.

"Also now saves us," in the context of the rest of the NT, means saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection (Ro 6:2-4).
This using of the symbol to refer to the reality is, as I understand it, what the Catholic church calls "sacramental union."

"answer of a good conscience toward God" is a commitment on the part of the believer in all good conscience to make sure that what baptism symbolizes in Ro 6:2-4 will become a reality in his life; i.e., that as Christ died for sin, so the believer will die to sin.

Do take the time and will see that E W BULLINGER has written several books of FIGURES OF SPEECH !!

Here are just some of the titles !!

ELLIPSIS , OXYMORON , METONYMY , PARABLES and hundreds more , and brought them on LINE >

By the way BULLINGER says that the word SYMBOL ON page 769 that is the nearest meaning is mystery .


dn p

 

[keepitsimple144]

Attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know...
it was impossible for Him to be held in death’s power. Acts 2:21-25

The Lord will bless and reward them. Psalm 24:5-6

And 2 Cor 5:7 For we walk by FAITH and NOT // OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and NOT means never walk by SIGHT !!
dan p

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6

Knowing that from the Lord you receive the reward of the inheritance; Col 3:24
Through whom we have now received reconciliation. Rom 5:11

 

[Dan Perez]

The Lord will bless and reward them. Psalm 24:5-6

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Heb 11:6

Knowing that from the Lord you receive the reward of the inheritance; Col 3:24
Through whom we have now received reconciliation. Rom 5:11

Did Jesus find FAITH doing his ministry to Israel , not any as recorded in Luke 7:9

In the BODY OF CHRIST , FAITH and HOPE Will never LAST long when Christ COMES back for us and then FAITH and HOPE will disappear and only LOVE will remain < 1 Cor 13:13 .

dan p

 

[keepitsimple144]

Did Jesus find FAITH doing his ministry to Israel , not any as recorded in Luke 7:9

In the BODY OF CHRIST , FAITH and HOPE Will never LAST long

Now hope does not disappoint,... Rom 5:5

when Christ COMES back for us and then FAITH and HOPE will disappear and only will remain < 1 Cor 13:13 .

dan p

Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 1 John 4:7-9
By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 1 John 4:13-16

​

 

[Dan Perez]

Now hope does not disappoint,... Rom 5:5

Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 1 John 4:7-9
By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 1 John 4:13-16

​

And here does it say Every who loves is " BORN OF GOD " and would like study the verse ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And here does it say Every who loves is " BORN OF GOD " and would like study the verse ?

1 Jn 4:7.

 

[Dan Perez]

1 Jn 4:7.

And I read your quote , of 1 JHON 4:7 .

#1 IS BORN // GENNAO is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR ,

#2 Is 1 John 4:7 speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST ?

# 2 Or is it speaking to Israel ?

# 3 Does that mean to be BORN of God , JUST means to Loveth each other is be SAVED ?

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And I read your quote , of 1 JHON 4:7 .

#1 IS BORN // GENNAO is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , in the INDICATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR ,

#2 Is 1 John 4:7 speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST ?

# 2 Or is it speaking to Israel ?

The NT is written to the body of Christ, which includes all who believe in Christ, Gentile and Jew.

# 3 Does that mean to be BORN of God , J UST means to Loveth each other is be SAVED ?

Those who know God love God, for those who know God are born of God (Jn 1:13),
where their new nature is the offspring of his love, and where the constitution and disposition of the new nature is love.
It is the new nature, which is love, which means to "be saved."

 

[Dan Perez]

The NT is written to the body of Christ, which includes all who believe in Christ, Gentile and Jew.

Those who know God love God, for those who know God are born of God (Jn 1:13),
where their new nature is the offspring of his love, and where the constitution and disposition of the new nature is love.
It is the new nature, which is love, which means to "be saved."

BUT , John 1:11 says He " JESUS " CAME // ERCHOMAI , in the AORIST TENSE means He came in the flesh , ACTIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD , better believe that He came to his OWN and is in the SINGULAR , one time in the flesh .

#2 HIS OWN // IDOS , is in the ACCUSAIVE CASE , meaning to be limiter to one time to his OWN , in theb Plural and in the NEUTER , meaning Male and Female .

#3 And his own RECIEVED HIM NOT and NOT // OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means the Jews recieved Him NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT EVER .

#4 And John was written to Jews and NOT to the B O C . PERIOD !!

dan p

 

[keepitsimple144]

And here does it say Every who loves is " BORN OF GOD " and would like study the verse ?

dan p

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

 

[Clare73]

BUT , John 1:11 says He " JESUS " CAME // ERCHOMAI , in the AORIST TENSE means He came in the flesh , ACTIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD , better believe that He came to his OWN and is in the SINGULAR , one time in the flesh .
#2 HIS OWN // IDOS , is in the ACCUSAIVE CASE , meaning to be limiter to one time to his OWN , in theb Plural and in the NEUTER , meaning Male and Female .
#3 And his own RECIEVED HIM NOT and NOT // OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means the Jews recieved Him NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT EVER .
#4 And John was written to Jews and NOT to the B O C . PERIOD !!

John gave the Son of God incarnate the name logos because of what it meant in Greek philosophy, whom he mainly had in mind.

 

[Dan Perez]

The NT is written to the body of Christ, which includes all who believe in Christ, Gentile and Jew.

Those who know God love God, for those who know God are born of God (Jn 1:13),
where their new nature is the offspring of his love, and where the constitution and disposition of the new nature is love.
It is the new nature, which is love, which means to "be saved."

And John 1:13 reads which were Born , NOT // MU is a DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means Never by BLOOD nor of the Will of the flesh , nor of the will of man , but of God , So Where is the new NATURE in this verse ???

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And John 1:13 reads which were Born , NOT // MU is a DISJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means Never by BLOOD nor of the Will of the flesh , nor of the will of man , but of God , So Where is the new NATURE in this verse ???

Born of God (Jn 1:13) refers to the new birth (Jn 3 3-5), which is the new nature.

 

[Dan Perez]

Born of God (Jn 1:13) refers to the new birth (Jn 3 3-5), which is the new nature.

Born of God (Jn 1:13) refers to the new birth (Jn 3 3-5), which is the new nature.

And what does John 1:13 then MEAN ??

John 3:3 I believe has NOTHING to do with John 1:13 .

So if you stick with your interpretation , I then will give my interpretation on John 1:13 !!

dan p

 

[Clare73]

And what does John 1:13 then MEAN ??

Jn 1:13 is about believers, not about Jesus Christ.

John 3:3 I believe has NOTHING to do with John 1:13 .

Correct. . .Jn 1:13 refers to believers, Jn 3:31 refers to Jesus and John the Baptist.

 

[Palmfever]

You must exegete 1 Pe 3:20-21 to show my error.

exegesis. Nice one Clare73. I had to look it up.

 

[Dan Perez]

Show me a sign for good... You, Lord, have helped me and comforted me. Ps 86:17

We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the Lord of hosts; Isaiah 8:17-20

For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH; Zechariah 3:7-8

Attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know...
it was impossible for Him to be held in death’s power. Acts 2:21-25

And the B O C walks by faith , period !!

Israel has always walked by sight !!

Why did you use Zech 3:7-8 ? or use Psa 86:17 ?

dan p

 

[keepitsimple144]

And the B O C walks by faith , period !!

Israel has always walked by sight !!

Why did you use Zech 3:7-8 ? or use Psa 86:17 ?

dan p

Everyone who is clean in your house may partake. Num 18:11
Not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. All came to pass. Joshua 21:45