Planet Fitness sees $400 MILLION wiped off value just five days after banning member who exposed 'trans woman' shaving in the female locker room

[Ceallaigh]

We're looking for a rule that is applicable for everyone. So we get people to do what you do. I've been saying that the last few posts. Why aren't you reading them?

As usual you're offering the same repetitive balderdash rather than straightforward answer. Now start doing the same angry routine you always do. You know carp about my posts are worthless and you're wasting your time and bandwidth and all that again for the umpteenth time.

 

[Bradskii]

So it should go by fantasy rather than fact.

Well, we don't know if your decision is the one or the other. So we'll ignore that, unless you want to suggest that everyone has a full medical to determine what bits they have or do not have. But then you're going to have to tell me what a physical examination will actually be looking for.

Do you want to do that? I don't mind if you have some suggestions.

 

[Bradskii]

As usual you're offering the same repetitive balderdash rather than straightforward answer. Now start doing the same angry routine you always do. You know carp about my posts are worthless and you're wasting your time and bandwidth and all that again for the umpteenth time.

I've just proposed that the rule for everyone should be the same as it would be for you. If you have a problem with that, then just let me know. I keep repeating that because you keep asking me what I'm doing, despite the last few posts telling you exactly what I'm doing.

So...If you have a problem, then be specific and we'll address it.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Is that a serious suggestion. Join a gym and you have to have an annual genital check?

Not necessary. A simple mouth swab would suffice. Or a quick standard eye exam. Or gauging facial bone structure in a number of ways. Or checking teeth. There's lots of distinct differences between men and women from the neck up that can be easily detected.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Well, we don't know if your decision is the one or the other. So we'll ignore that, unless you want to suggest that everyone has a full medical to determine what bits they have or do not have. But then you're going to have to tell me what a physical examination will actually be looking for.

Do you want to do that? I don't mind if you have some suggestions.

Balderdash. Virtually everyone knows what sex they are and sex is what determines if someone is male or female. Gender identity that differs from sex is what someone fantasizes they are. And if it's nonbinary, which is one of the most popular choices, it can't be classified as male or female. Bigender, agender and pangender (to name a few) also excludes either male or female. Bigender: Equally male and female. Agender: Neither male nor female. Pangender: Any and every gender there is.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I've just proposed that the rule for everyone should be the same as it would be for you. If you have a problem with that, then just let me know. I keep repeating that because you keep asking me what I'm doing, despite the last few posts telling you exactly what I'm doing.

So...If you have a problem, then be specific and we'll address it.

You haven't really stated what that rule is. It looks to me like either you have a concept you can't put into words properly, or you're trying to be crafty and you're not getting anywhere with it.

 

[Bradskii]

Not necessary. A simple mouth swab would suffice. Or a quick standard eye exam. Or gauging facial bone structure in a number of ways. Or checking teeth. There's lots of distinct differences between men and women from the neck up that can be easily detected.

So you want someone who physically appears as a man, dresses as a man, looks like a man, sounds like a man, acts like a man, lives as a man to change in the women's changing room?

But...I thought this was the problem you were trying to avoid.

 

[Bradskii]

You haven't really stated what that rule is. It looks to me like either you have a concept you can't put into words properly, or you're trying to be crafty and you're not getting anywhere with it.

I have. Three times I believe. Here's one time:

'We're looking for a rule that is applicable for everyone. So we get people to do what you do.'

And you choose the changing room that aligns with your gender. So that's what everyone does. Else we have a problem that I noted in the post above this one. A problem you want to avoid.

 

[Ceallaigh]

So you want someone who physically appears as a man, dresses as a man, looks like a man, sounds like a man, acts like a man, lives as a man to change in the women's changing room?

But...I thought this was the problem you were trying to avoid.

Please stop trying to be crafty. It's disingenuous and tiresome.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I have. Three times I believe. Here's one time:

'We're looking for a rule that is applicable for everyone. So we get people to do what you do.'

And you choose the changing room that aligns with your gender. So that's what everyone does. Else we have a problem that I noted in the post above this one. A problem you want to avoid.

Therefore you're saying the rule should be: men are allowed to go into women's restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas if they choose to.

 

[Bradskii]

Please stop trying to be crafty. It's disingenuous and tiresome.

This isn't being crafty. It's what you literally suggested.

To effectively have the two changing rooms marked XX and XY and your swab determines which you use. Which undoubtedly will lead to someone who physically appears as a man, dresses as a man, looks like a man, sounds like a man, acts like a man, lives as a man told to change in the women's changing room.

So your suggestion leads to something that you actually say you're trying to avoid. It's obviously not a solution, is it...

 

[Bradskii]

Therefore you're saying the rule should be: men are allowed to go into women's restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas if they choose to.

How many times do I have to repeat it? This is the 4th.

You choose the changing room that aligns with your gender.

This is the rule that you follow. And you haven't been swabbed. But you can go with swabs if you like and have someone who is physically a male etc etc in the women's change room. Do you want that to happen? Tell me. Swabs or not?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

More like a potential danger. Are we talking about the policy of a particular business or organization like a nudist camp? Or an overall rule regarding women's restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas everywhere? The latter is what I focusing on.

The topic of this thread is the policy of a particular business. There is no overall rule, and certainly no prospect of one being created any time soon. Working yourself up over hypotheticals is unhealthy.

Then that's not a separate issue. It's going with the conclusion that the main or only real factor is being anti-LGBTQ / transphobic in not wanting men in women's spaces.

No, it isn't. It's recognizing that the loudest, most vocal objections - the ones that everyone hears - are rooted in transphobia and anti-LGBT sentiment (and you're illustrating that by insisting on calling trans women men).

I disagree. There have been lots of irl sexual predators that went undetected by most everyone irl.

Absolutely - I think I covered that.

And a person doesn't have to assault someone to be a predator. Lots of sexual predators are voyeurs. And I think the odds of a man in a women's locker room being a voyeur are pretty likely. Which is why women don't want men in their restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas. While the actual sexual assault aspect might be on the lower side, the voyeur aspect is on the high side.

If you worry about voyeurs, you should be advocating for private individual changing stalls, not separated men's and women's locker rooms. Gay people exist (men and women), and there are a heck of a lot more of them than trans people. I guarantee that at least some of them have voyeuristic tendencies and indulge those tendencies using locker rooms.

 

[Ceallaigh]

How many times do I have to repeat it? This is the 4th.

You choose the changing room that aligns with your gender.

Yeah but you've confused sex with gender, probably because it suited your attempts at being crafty. See that's why you have to say whatever multiple times. Because you try to be crafty instead of being straightforward.

This is the rule that you follow. And you haven't been swabbed. But you can go with swabs if you like and have someone who is physically a male etc etc in the women's change room. Do you want that to happen? Tell me. Swabs or not?

Bizzzt the longstanding rule that 'men don't belong in women's spaces' is based on biological sex, period. There's never been any test connected to that in the last 100+ years. That's something you came up with. How crafty and disingenuous of you to make it look like testing was my idea.

 

[Ceallaigh]

This isn't being crafty. It's what you literally suggested.

To effectively have the two changing rooms marked XX and XY and your swab determines which you use. Which undoubtedly will lead to someone who physically appears as a man, dresses as a man, looks like a man, sounds like a man, acts like a man, lives as a man told to change in the women's changing room.

So your suggestion leads to something that you actually say you're trying to avoid. It's obviously not a solution, is it...

More balderdash. You came up with the idea of examining genitalia. I just said there were simpler methods that fit the scenario that you came up with. Anything regarding testing is your idea, not mine.

The way the men don't belong in women's spaces rule works is the way it's worked since it was established.

 

[Bradskii]

Yeah but you've confused sex with gender, probably because it suited your attempts at being crafty.

That's why you suggested testing:

'A simple mouth swab would suffice.'

But then you'd have a trans person who physically appears as a man, dresses as a man, looks like a man, sounds like a man, acts like a man, lives as a man in the women's changing room. Because he tests XX. So let's get an answer to this so there's no confusion.

Is that a scenario that you want?

How crafty and disingenuous of you to make it look like testing was my idea.

See the quote above. It's yours. You said testing would be the way to go rather than ticking a box on a form. Don't forget to answer the question as to whether you accept the result of that.

 

[Bradskii]

You came up with the idea of examining genitalia.

I asked if that was what you wanted to do. You suggested swabs.

I just said there were simpler methods that fit the scenario that you came up with.

Yeah. Swabs was the one. I quoted you above. Great way to test one's biological sex. You're either XX or XY. I've noted the problem with that. And still waiting for your response.

Anything regarding testing is your idea, not mine.

Actually, that was @o_mlly.

'Gee, at least a doctor's note to screen members seems in order.'

Your swab seems a lot easier.

Bizzzt the longstanding rule that 'men don't belong in women's spaces' is based on biological sex, period.

Hence the swabs.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I asked if that was what you wanted to do. You suggested swabs.

Yeah. Swabs was the one. I quoted you above. Great way to test one's biological sex. You're either XX or XY. I've noted the problem with that. And still waiting for your response.

Actually, that was @o_mlly.

'Gee, at least a doctor's note to screen members seems in order.'

Your swab seems a lot easier.

Hence the swabs.

Okay we're done until you stop playing games.

 

[Bradskii]

Okay we're done until you stop playing games.

Fair enough. The question is there for all to see. As is the total lack of an answer.

Your problem, as if it needed to be pointed out, is that you didn't think through the implications of what you suggested. And you ended up with that which you were trying to avoid in the first place.

Until you have a solution then I guess places like Planet Fitness will carry on as before and get people to nominate their gender - and hence which changing rooms they use.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Fair enough. The question is there for all to see. As is the total lack of an answer.

Your problem, as if it needed to be pointed out, is that you didn't think through the implications of what you suggested. And you ended up with that which you were trying to avoid in the first place.

Until you have a solution then I guess places like Planet Fitness will carry on as before and get people to nominate their gender - and hence which changing rooms they use.

My position: the longstanding rule that men don't belong in women's only spaces.

Your position: no rules no restrictions.