Planet Fitness bans woman who complained about transgender woman in locker room

[Inkfingers]

Transition from one sex to another has nothing to do with wanting to have sex with any particular group of people.

You cannot "Transition from one sex to another".

Getting yourself castrated and fitted with something that has the superficial appearance of female genitalia, but none of the substance of it, is not a change of sex. It is a neutering. A removal of sex. A de-sexing. It leaves you being a kind of asexual being, devoid of the very foundation of the two sexes - the ability to produce sperm or eggs.

To believe that such a change is a change of sex is a self-evident "strong delusion" (to use Biblical terminology). Hence, mental illness. Hence, the far more reasonable presumption that other mental illness is found with such not because of others reactions but because the sufferer is already inherently prone to mental illness.

Considering that you suggest this has anything to do with homosexuality merely displays your lack of education on the subject.

I am well aware of the difference - your playing of word games does not change that.

 

[Cute Tink]

You cannot "Transition from one sex to another".

Not a response to me or what I said.

Getting yourself castrated and fitted with something that has the superficial appearance of female genitalia, but none of the substance of it, is not a change of sex. It is a neutering. A removal of sex. A de-sexing. It leaves you being a kind of asexual being, devoid of the very foundation of the two sexes - the ability to produce sperm or eggs.

And?

To believe that such a change is a change of sex is a self-evident "strong delusion" (to use Biblical terminology). Hence, mental illness. Hence, the far more reasonable presumption that other mental illness is found with such not because of others reactions but because the sufferer is already inherently prone to mental illness.

And yet, as previously noted, the psychological and psychiatric community do not agree that this constitutes mental illness. Trust them, the trained professionals, or trust you, whose opinion is seemingly not based on a thorough understanding of the condition in question?

I am well aware of the difference - your playing of word games does not change that.

I'm not the one who thinks that transition is about having sex.

 

[Cute Tink]

FYI, this is an example of what I'm talking about.

Trans men using the women's bathroom.

I've seen the "argument" plenty of times that these trans-friendly bathroom bills will allow men to dress up as women and use the women's bathroom to harass or attack women and children.

Instead, this is what you will get. Trans men in the women's bathroom, beards, deep voices and all. So what does a cis man have to do to break into the women's bathroom? Just walk in and say he's a trans man. No dressing up needed. How about that?

 

[Rhamiel]

I do not want to change church teachings at all. You are welcome to believe as you see fit. I seek only to educate so that society is a better place for people like me.

thank you for not wishing to change the teachings of the Church

the Church teaches that it is a sin to mutilate the body in such a fashion

 

[Rhamiel]

I appreciate your honesty and I appologize for any false witness that might have been suggested against you by people who share my belief and faith in Jesus Christ.

who has given false witness?

I was mistaken about her motivations
I thought she wished the Church to change the teachings
since she is debating this topic on a Catholic subforum
this is a reasonable thing to assume is it not?

why are you so soft on this issue Mike? people are getting mutilated and demanding the we accept that as "normal"
you seem more concerned that I might have misspoke then you are that people are castrating themselves

 

[Inkfingers]

And yet, as previously noted, the psychological and psychiatric community do not agree that this constitutes mental illness. Trust them, the trained professionals, or trust you, whose opinion is seemingly not based on a thorough understanding of the condition in question?

That would be the same community that fill children full of ritalin, hand out prozac and citalopram like they are the holy grail, and cannot decide whether Skinner or Freud were right?

You are simply "trusting" whoever supports your own subjective desires.

I am posting reasoned argument that shows how you cannot transition from one sex to another.

 

[Cute Tink]

thank you for not wishing to change the teachings of the Church

the Church teaches that it is a sin to mutilate the body in such a fashion

You'll notice that I don't speak to the nature of sin. I am not educated to any extent on the contents of the Bible, nor am I in any position to refute anything that anyone claims from the Bible. I only speak to the what it means to be transgender.

 

[Cute Tink]

That would be the same community that fill children full of ritalin, hand out prozac and citalopram like they are the holy grail, and cannot decide whether Skinner or Freud were right?

You are simply "trusting" whoever supports your own subjective desires.

Still no. Scientific studies of the brain are supporting me as well. Link supplied earlier.

You are simply rejecting anything that doesn't support your subjective opinion.

I am posting reasoned argument that shows how you cannot transition from one sex to another.

Where do I claim that one literally becomes the opposite sex, with all that you expect of that term?

 

[Inkfingers]

Where do I claim that one literally becomes the opposite sex, with all that you expect of that term?

What? Your whole point is that a man can allegedly become a woman.

 

[MikeK]

who has given false witness?

I was mistaken about her motivations
I thought she wished the Church to change the teachings
since she is debating this topic on a Catholic subforum
this is a reasonable thing to assume is it not?

No, I don't think that your conclusion was a reasonable one to jump to and that is why I refrained from doing so. I try to take the words people choose at face value and not fill in the blanks with my imagination.

why are you so soft on this issue Mike? people are getting mutilated and demanding the we accept that as "normal"
you seem more concerned that I might have misspoke then you are that people are castrating themselves

You are a Catholic speaking in a visible place and you are on the "side" I consider myself to be on, therefore I hold you to a higher standard than I do those who do not know our truth. While I think it is wrong to castrate oneself, I try to maintain a sense of perspective and proportion. Sex change operations are uncommon in general and quite uncommon among practicing Catholics. Reminding non-Catholics that if they were a Catholic and they missed Mass without a valid excuse or ca stated themselves they could be in a state of mortal sin doesn't seem particularily important to me. I'd much rather set a welcoming example to get them to consider the faith so that we have a fair opportunity to share the truths of Christ's Church in full, that they may come to believe.

 

[Rhamiel]

What? Your whole point is that a man can allegedly become a woman.

not really
the argument is that the person is "really" a woman on some ontological level even though they have male DNA and operational male genitalia

so the operation does not "change" them
it "corrects" a "mistake of birth"

 

[Cute Tink]

What? Your whole point is that a man can allegedly become a woman.

Please pay attention to what I said. I said we couldn't transition to the other sex with all that you expect of it.

We cannot currently become capable of producing sperm or eggs and that is not in dispute.

What we can do is bring our bodies into closer congruence with that of our minds and such procedures have been shown to alleviate Gender Dysphoria.

 

[Inkfingers]

Please pay attention to what I said. I said we couldn't transition to the other sex with all that you expect of it.

We cannot currently become capable of producing sperm or eggs and that is not in dispute.

What we can do is bring our bodies into closer congruence with that of our minds and such procedures have been shown to alleviate Gender Dysphoria.

THAT does not make you a woman when born a man.

Your comments are filled with cognitive dissonance, so there is no point trying to discuss this further with you.

 

[Rhamiel]

No, I don't think that your conclusion was a reasonable one to jump to and that is why I refrained from doing so. I try to take the words people choose at face value and not fill in the blanks with my imagination.



You are a Catholic speaking in a visible place and you are on the "side" I consider myself to be on, therefore I hold you to a higher standard than I do those who do not know our truth. While I think it is wrong to castrate oneself, I try to maintain a sense of perspective and proportion. Sex change operations are uncommon in general and quite uncommon among practicing Catholics. Reminding non-Catholics that if they were a Catholic and they missed Mass without a valid excuse or ca stated themselves they could be in a state of mortal sin doesn't seem particularily important to me. I'd much rather set a welcoming example to get them to consider the faith so that we have a fair opportunity to share the truths of Christ's Church in full, that they may come to believe.

you and me are on the same side?
I would not have even known that from reading your posts here
maybe you should be a bit more vocal as to avoid confusion

I try to be very welcoming to people here

 

[Cute Tink]

THAT does not make you a woman when born a man.

Your comments are filled with cognitive dissonance, so there is no point trying to discuss this further with you.

How do I move the goal posts when you finally realize that I never claimed what you thought I did? I never claimed that transition made us capable of participating in reproduction as our gender. Keeping my same argument is not moving the goal posts.

You are the one who has repeatedly stated that sex has to do with our ability to participate in reproduction, which is actually not required by society to be identified as male or female, thus an invalid point, but I addressed it because you have repeatedly stated I claimed this possible.

I have noticed that when my position isn't what you want it to be that you refuse to continue and that is fine. I cannot educate those who are unwilling to learn.

 

[Rhamiel]

not really
the argument is that the person is "really" a woman on some ontological level even though they have male DNA and operational male genitalia

so the operation does not "change" them
it "corrects" a "mistake of birth"

Tink, would you say that my understanding of your view is more or less correct?

 

[Cute Tink]

Tink, would you say that my understanding of your view is more or less correct?

I would say it is generally correct.

The only nitpicking I would give is that it is assumed that the individual has certain DNA and functional genitalia, but those are not required to be diagnosed with having Gender Dysphoria.

 

[Rhamiel]

I would say it is generally correct.

The only nitpicking I would give is that it is assumed that the individual has certain DNA and functional genitalia, but those are not required to be diagnosed with having Gender Dysphoria.

good point, there are examples of XXY chromosomes or people born with some level of hermaphroditism

oh, and as for being welcoming
on an aside, I have seen Tink post in the Singles forum before
I would not really call us friends, but we are generally respectful to each other and I enjoy reading her posts (lol I can not speak for her if she likes reading my posts)

this is a topic that we happen to disagree on

 

[Cute Tink]

good point, there are examples of XXY chromosomes or people born with some level of hermaphroditism

Indeed. There are cases of intersex people whose genitalia was indistinct and then the child was raised according to the adjusted genitalia (typically female, as that is a simpler surgery). It is my understanding this is, historically, a result of a conversation between the doctor and the parents rather than any examination of chromosomes or other tests. The child may or may not ever be comfortable with the designation of the assigned gender.

oh, and as for being welcoming
on an aside, I have seen Tink post in the Singles forum before
I would not really call us friends, but we are generally respectful to each other and I enjoy reading her posts (lol I can not speak for her if she likes reading my posts)

this is a topic that we happen to disagree on

I would agree. Rhamiel and I speak quite respectfully on other topics and I do enjoy reading his posts as well.

 

[MikeK]

you and me are on the same side?

Christ's!