Old Testament Salvation

[AVBunyan]

Many fundalmentalist who are so firm on their belief of salvation by grace thru faith alone in the New Testament (which I believe, at least from mid Acts on) that they say OT Jews were also saved like we are today. In other words they believe the OT Jews believed the same message we believe today (I Cor. 15:1-5). If that were the case then after the Jew "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" then why would he have to continue to keep the law from then on? Why even have the law if salvation was by grace thru faith alone?

Folks are funny you know.

 

[Dispy]

Many fundalmentalist who are so firm on their belief of salvation by grace thru faith alone in the New Testament (which I believe, at least from mid Acts on) that they say OT Jews were also saved like we are today. In other words they believe the OT Jews believed the same message we believe today (I Cor. 15:1-5). If that were the case then after the Jew "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" then why would he have to continue to keep the law from then on? Why even have the law if salvation was by grace thru faith alone?

Folks are funny you know.

Salvation, since the fall of man, has always been on the basis of FAITH. FAITH in believing/doing what God required at that point in time of human history.

Under the Law one was required to do the deeds/works of the Law by FAITH. During this present dispensation of Grace, one must place their FAITH alone in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection - [1 Cor. 15:1-4]) of Christ for their salvation.

 

[Danoh]

The distinction between the two can be confusing - the Law said "do." Faith's response was to do - from the heart, or, because God had commanded that, Romans 2:28, 29; 9:31-33.

Prior to this age of Grace, under the Law, those of Israel that fell, did so because their law keeping had been an outward show, as pleasing men, not God. Their works had not been by faith, that is, from the heart, towards God.

And with that, the election of Israel were sealed unto the day of their redemption, the balance of Israel was blinded, and the salvation OFFER of God was TEMPORARILY grafted in as an offer of salvation to the Gentiles by Grace Rom. 9:30.

And with that "NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested... Even (in other words) the righteousness of God which is by faith (or fidelity) OF JESUS CHRIST (to HIS work - the death of the Cross) unto all and upon all THAT BELIEVE" Rom. 3:21, 22.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

 

[AVBunyan]

Thanks folks - enjoyed reading your responses - I understand the basis of faith through out but what frustrates me is this fundamentalists crowd, generally speaking for not all are blinded on this) continue to believe a Jew in the OT were actually trusting Christ as their saviour. I asked them to show me where the average Jew even knew about Christ dying for their sins and of course they couldn't produce any. Sad.

God bless

 

[CalvinistSamurai]

You should read Dr Ryrie's book Dispensationalism. He goes over that one. Our argument is that salvation essentially has three parts: an basis, a means, and an object. The basis has always been Christ's meritorious work on the cross. The means is always grace through faith. It's the object that changes. When I talk to covenant theologians, I always ask the question, "Did the Jews believe in Jesus of Nazareth as Saviour?" Usually, the response is that no they didn't, but there was still always faith in a coming messiah. My next question of course then is, can a person today be saved by simply believing in a messiah? Of course not. I think that right there proves that the object changes, and that to say everyone, at all times, believed in Christ is a bit naive.

I will say though, there is a theory in the form of an 18pg article in JETS, I believe, that advances the theory that every single salvation in the OT was by means of special revelation about Jesus. I didn't buy it, but that theory is out there.

 

[AVBunyan]

1.You should read Dr Ryrie's book Dispensationalism.
2. The means is always grace through faith. It's the object that changes. When I talk to covenant theologians, I always ask the question, "Did the Jews believe in Jesus of Nazareth as Saviour?"

3. My next question of course then is, can a person today be saved by simply believing in a messiah? Of course not.

4. I think that right there proves that the object changes, and that to say everyone, at all times, believed in Christ is a bit naive.

1. I haven't but will look for it for I've heard it was a good book. Thanks

2. Amen - good stuff.

3. Good point - If thatis all he blieves it won't work - the gopsel is I Cor. 15:1-5. Acts 8:37 is another similiar example similar to your thought here.

4. Yes - good - thanks.

God bless

 

[sheina]

Way of Life Encyclopedia
LAW

How Were People Saved During the Time of the Law?

(1) Men have always been saved by faith in God's Word (Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 4:1-8; Hebrews 11:7). People in Old Testament times did not understand completely about how Jesus Christ would come to earth and die for their sins, but when they believed in the things God told them, they were saved by their faith in God's Word (Hebrews 11).

(2) Men have always been saved on the basis of Christ's blood and death (Romans 3:25). There is only one reason our holy God can forgive man's sins, and that is because Christ paid the penalty for those sins. Therefore, believers of all ages have been saved on the basis of Christ's bloody death, even though they did not necessarily fully understand this salvation (1 Peter 1:9-12). The Old Testament animal sacrifices did not remove sins, but only looked forward to Christ (John 1:29; Hebrews 10:1-4).

 

[Dan Perez]

It's not funny.

Why do people refrain from running red lights, even when they are full citizens of the country, even if they are legally licensed and insured and so forth ?

What happened hen there as no Law , at all , Rom 5:13 ?

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Even though, if, or when sin is not or was not imputed,
there was death - they died.

ill you break down Rom 5:13 and will you explain what that verse really means ?

And when I return on Monday , I ill explain it word for word , so take shot at it ??

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

Many fundalmentalist who are so firm on their belief of salvation by grace thru faith alone in the New Testament (which I believe, at least from mid Acts on) that they say OT Jews were also saved like we are today. In other words they believe the OT Jews believed the same message we believe today (I Cor. 15:1-5). If that were the case then after the Jew "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" then why would he have to continue to keep the law from then on? Why even have the law if salvation was by grace thru faith alone?

Folks are funny you know.

In Psalms 119:29, he wanted to put false ways far form him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

 

[Guojing]

Many fundalmentalist who are so firm on their belief of salvation by grace thru faith alone in the New Testament (which I believe, at least from mid Acts on) that they say OT Jews were also saved like we are today. In other words they believe the OT Jews believed the same message we believe today (I Cor. 15:1-5). If that were the case then after the Jew "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ" then why would he have to continue to keep the law from then on? Why even have the law if salvation was by grace thru faith alone?

Folks are funny you know.

In the first place, personal salvation, the one that we know of today, was not offered to anyone in the OT.

After exodus for example, when Israel was formed,

Those who are faithful to God, which requires keeping the Law, to enter the promised kingdom when Christ comes to redeem Israel (Acts 1:8)

 

[Dan Perez]

In Psalms 119:29, he wanted to put false ways far form him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

I believe that salvation began when Adam and Eve were SAVE as recorded i Gen 3:21 by ATONEMENT !!

How Jews are saved today is explained in 2 Cor 3:14-16 .

dan p