Israel Has No Place In Closing Events.

[Grip Docility]

The gathering of His people at the Return, in 1 Thess and Matthew 24:31, is a transportation from wherever His faithful people are to where Jesus will be; Jerusalem. The precursor for this is how Philip was taken up and instantly snatched away to Azotus, where he preached the Gospel. Acts 8:39-40

I wrote this article in 2010:

THE RAPTURE – when will it happen?
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is a word from the Lord; those of His people who are still alive when the Lord comes, will have no advantage over those who have died.
...when Gods trumpet sounds and Jesus descends from heaven, firstly the Christian dead will rise, then we who are still alive will join them.
Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. [on the earth]

Zechariah 14:4-5 On that Day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.....the Lord will appear, attended by all His holy ones.
His holy ones: The angel armies of heaven; Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14

Scripture reads clearly – the so called rapture is actually just a gathering, which will occur when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The doctrine that His “church” people are simply waiting to be whisked away into heaven tends to produce a carefree and careless attitude in those awaiting Christ’s Return. Tragically, millions are now being set up to ‘simply believe in Jesus and don’t worry about anything else”. This is short-sighted, irresponsible thinking.
Many verses show that Christianity involves active effort, at the very least “watch and pray always”.

Many of the Bible’s greatest prophecies culminate in the Return of Jesus. This will be the most wonderful event that the world has seen, but what precedes it will be very different – terrible disasters and tribulations will engulf every society. It will take great trust and faith in Gods power to hold steady until the end.
Luke 18:8 When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

God wants you to rely on Him, to trust Him completely. In the near future , when others are gripped by fear, uncertainty and confusion and have no idea of where to turn to for answers, God does not want His people to agonise over what may happen next.

Luke 21:18-19 Not a hair of your head will be lost. By standing firm you will win yourselves life.

Revelation 13:10 ..... this calls for the endurance and faithfulness of Gods people.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear.... the son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and they shall gather His faithful people from heaven, [the souls of the martyrs] and the four corners of the earth. [every person who kept their trust in God]

Daniel 7:27 The kingly power and sovereignty of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their power will last forever and every realm will serve and obey them.
Reference; Revised English Bible, some verses abridged

Do you believe the dead in Jesus are currently with Jesus?

 

[Grip Docility]

Anthropology, how much of that do people know?
What is the origins of the Western peoples?
Books on the origins of the human races or usually very obscure or have nothing about anything beyond that the Western people came from the Caucasus region. Then they jump to the earliest remains of humans in the African Rift Valley.
Rather a large gap between those two, a gap that remains shrouded to secular people, but can be filled in by Biblical history. How the Israelite people started with Jacob, then grew to many millions and occupied the holy Land, but they allowed other peoples to remain there, Judges 1:19-36 Those peoples infected the Israelites with their false religions and inter-marriage; eventually God threw both Israel; the ten Northern tribes and Judah; the two Southern tribes, into exile.

That exile was for a decreed time period, Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Judah has come back now, but in apostasy and they face punishment on the forthcoming Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +
Israel still remains in exile and they have not yet rejoined, proved by what will happen when they do. Ezekiel 37
Note; in Jeremiah 31:21 how the people of Israel left waymarks, still seen today; the many dolmens across Europe, as they travelled to their final destinations of exile, around the world, where the Lord said He would bless and prosper them.

Many secular histories tell of great population migrations in ancient times even continuing today. It did happen, the Israelites did become as many as the sands of the sea, they did occupy the gates of their enemies, they DID accept the Gospel and become Christians. John 10:16....other sheep I have, who are not of this fold...
So God WILL fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs and His Israelite people, be they actual descendants of Jacob: people from every tribe, [of Israel[ race, nation and language; grafted in by their faith. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

This is the amazing secret of God, His hidden Plan to redeem Israel, His faithful people.
The prophecy of Ezekiel 20:32-38 is very informative, those who are of Israel who revolt and rebel, as the Jews have done, will not be allowed to live in the holy Land during the end times. Jeremiah 12:14
Another demolition of the impossible 'rapture' theory!

Also, I know that we are doing the old back and forth debate dance... but I do want to take the time to give you respect for Loving scripture so very much that you study so fervently! I mean that! Disagreement and discussion aside, it is always inspiring and wonderful to see fervent passion for scripture.

 

[Diamond7]

Israel Has No Part In Closing events!!!

What about the 144,000 we read about in Revelation. !2,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

 

[keras]

Do you believe the dead in Jesus are currently with Jesus?

ALL the dead 'sleep' in their graves. Their next conscious moment will be as they stand before God in Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

Loving scripture so very much that you study so fervently! I mean that!

Thank you.
I have worn out one Bible and the replacement is now looking well used!

What about the 144,000 we read about in Revelation. !2,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

We Christian peoples ARE the 10 tribes of Israel.
Enough of Judah and Benjamin will be saved to make up their 24,000 witnesses.

 

[Grip Docility]

ALL the dead 'sleep' in their graves. Their next conscious moment will be as they stand before God in Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

Thank you.
I have worn out one Bible and the replacement is now looking well used!

We Christian peoples ARE the 10 tribes of Israel.
Enough of Judah and Benjamin will be saved to make up their 24,000 witnesses.

You don't find it odd that they are named by Tribe and found in literal Israel, scripturally?

 

[Diamond7]

ALL the dead 'sleep' in their graves.

Their body is asleep. Lost I checked they all left their body behind. We are told that they will be re united with their body at the resurrection.

Their next conscious moment will be as they stand before God in Judgment. Rev 20:11-15

How do you reconcile this - with the story Jesus tells us about Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

• The rich man, in agony, asked Abraham to send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool his tongue."

I do understand they have to be united with their body to be judged. Even though they are judged from what is written in the books.

 

[keras]

You don't find it odd that they are named by Tribe and found in literal Israel, scripturally?

No; the Christian peoples being call after the twelve tribes, is logical and correct as we are the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him.

 

[keras]

Their body is asleep. Lost I checked they all left their body behind. We are told that they will be re united with their body at the resurrection.

At the Resurrection, which will take place after the Millennium, Revelation 20:11-15, those people found worthy will become Spiritual, immortal beings. Those whose names are not found in the Book of Life, will be annihilated
I view that resurrection as not necessarily in a mortal body, but maybe just the souls of everyone, in a state where they all conscious of what is going on as everyone hears and understands their sentence.

Note; in 1 Cor 15:51, that not everyone will die a normal death, those still living by the end of the Millennium, will stand before God, along with everyone who has died; from Adam and Eve till then, 7000 years later. Provided their names or found in the Book of Life, they will be transformed in an instant; from mortal life to immortality.

How do you reconcile this - with the story Jesus tells us about Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

That story is a homily, a warning to all that this life in our only chance to get right with God.
In no way did it really happen.

 

[Diamond7]

iThose whose names are not found in the Book of Life, will be annihilated

They will be thrown into the lake of fire and the Bible does teach annihilation or to complete destruction as if they never were. Utterly destroy is in the Bible MANY times at least 50 or 60 times. Hell is in the Bible maybe five or six times.

I would like for everyone to be saved but the Bible does not teach that sort of universalism.

In no way did it really happen.

He wanted one drop of living water.

• His request was simple: “Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.”
• Abraham responded, explaining that during his lifetime, the rich man had received good things, while Lazarus had suffered. Now their roles were reversed: Lazarus found comfort, and the rich man faced torment.
• The rich man pleaded for Lazarus to be sent to his five brothers, warning them about the place of torment. Abraham replied that they had Moses and the prophets to guide them; if they didn’t listen to them, they wouldn’t be persuaded even if someone rose from the dead.

 

[Grip Docility]

No; the Christian peoples being call after the twelve tribes, is logical and correct as we are the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him.

Which Biological Racial Tribe are you?

 

[keras]

That story is a homily, a warning to all that this life in our only chance to get right with God.
In no way did it really happen.

He wanted one drop of living water.

Thinking Luke 16:19-31 was a real happening, rather shows up your gullibility.
Proof that it could not have been real, is in the many scriptures that say the dead know nothing and they 'sleep' while waiting for the final Judgment.

Which Biological Racial Tribe are you?

I will know that soon after we gather in all of the holy Land.
The division of all the faithful Christian peoples into 12 groups, is not biological, but by individual characteristics.

 

[Grip Docility]

Thinking Luke 16:19-31 was a real happening, rather shows up your gullibility.
Proof that it could not have been real, is in the many scriptures that say the dead know nothing and they 'sleep' while waiting for the final Judgment.

I will know that soon after we gather in all of the holy Land.
The division of all the faithful Christian peoples into 12 groups, is not biological, but by individual characteristics.

So, a book filled with bloodlines and literal lineage that our Messiah is vindicated by, important enough to open the very gospels with… makes a reference to literal bloodlines… and… should be steam rolled with Western centric Eschatology?!?

Build that bridge for me please! Show me the chicken bones and incense!

 

[keras]

So, a book filled with bloodlines and literal lineage that our Messiah is vindicated by, important enough to open the very gospels with… makes a reference to literal bloodlines… and… should be steam rolled with Western centric Eschatology?!?

Build that bridge for me please! Show me the chicken bones and incense!

If you had any knowledge of genetic dispersion over 100 + generations, then you wouldn't make such comments.
The fact is that everyone alive today has some of Abrahams genes.
There is also the fact that the origins of the Western nations is the House of Israel. The Caucasian peoples came from the place the Northern tribes were exiled to.
But all that is God's secret, it is not our concern, as since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all who would accept it, WE Christians are the people of God, from every tribe, race nation and language. Soon to be gathered into all of the holy Land.
Great will be that day!

 

[Grip Docility]

If you had any knowledge of genetic dispersion over 100 + generations, then you wouldn't make such comments.
The fact is that everyone alive today has some of Abrahams genes.
There is also the fact that the origins of the Western nations is the House of Israel. The Caucasian peoples came from the place the Northern tribes were exiled to.
But all that is God's secret, it is not our concern, as since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all who would accept it, WE Christians are the people of God, from every tribe, race nation and language. Soon to be gathered into all of the holy Land.
Great will be that day!

I bet I know somebody WHO DOES have Genetic knowledge, to this very day. He's quite the know it ALL... and I believe you know HIM, too.

 

[Diamond7]

Thinking Luke 16:19-31 was a real happening, rather shows up your gullibility.

I was taught that if they have real names they are real people. So going by that if you say the "Rich Man" it could be symbolic. But when you use the name Lazarus then it becomes a real story about real people.

You can not win for losing on this forum. One group attacks and they try to discredit you for not being literal. Now you are attacking and belittling me for being to literal. I believe the Bible is clearly literal and symbolic. I believe Adam, Eve & Noah were real people. Do you think that they were not real, just symbolic of mankind? Was Jesus a real person or was He just symbolic also? Or maybe as the Matrix indicated none of us are real. WE are just a simulation on a computer. So are we even having this conversation or is the computer just talking to itself? How far are you willing to go with this?

​

 

[keras]

I bet I know somebody WHO DOES have Genetic knowledge, to this very day. He's quite the know it ALL... and I believe you know HIM, too.

Yes; God does know who and where the true descendants of ancient Israel are. Amos 9:9
But if some Christians are deemed to not be their genuine descendants, that is no problem, as we are grafted in and become Israelites by faith. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
WE are the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelite peoples.

 

[Diamond7]

If you had any knowledge of genetic dispersion over 100 + generations, then you wouldn't make such comments.
The fact is that everyone alive today has some of Abrahams genes.

• As we trace our family trees back in time, the number of ancestors grows exponentially.
• By the 33rd generation (about 800 to 1,000 years ago), we have more than eight billion ancestors.
• For instance, your great-great-great-great-great-grandmother might also be your great-great-great-great-aunt.

 

[keras]

I attend was taught that if they have real names they are real people

So; Clark Kent is Superman and Arnie is the Terminator?
I view those who interpret the story in Luke 16:19-31, as a true story, as just another attempt of the 'rapture to heaven' believers to support their fanciful dream.
It is impossible to support it as really happening, as it creates many Bible contradictions. We human Christians never go to live in heaven, that is a serious deception that Jesus directly refuted. John 3:13.
Eventually, after all the Prophesies are fulfilled, God and therefore heaven, will come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[Diamond7]

So; Clark Kent is Superman and Arnie is the Terminator?

I thought we were having a discussion about the Bible. I did not know you were talking about comic books.

 

[Grip Docility]

Yes; God does know who and where the true descendants of ancient Israel are. Amos 9:9
But if some Christians are deemed to not be their genuine descendants, that is no problem, as we are grafted in and become Israelites by faith. Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
WE are the Overcomers for God; literally His Israelite peoples.

Face Palm. So, do you enjoy being arrogant towards the Jews? You are Saved by THEIR Messiah, now you want to claim ALL of their remaining promises for yourself? Were you hunted by Arab nations for 1000's of years? Did Germany try to wipe out your bloodline? Is the entire world currently trying to "Divide your land"? (Joel 3:2)