Is it odd how many Christians post that eternal security with Jesus isn't true?

[toLiJC]

Thank you for those details. And for indulging my curiosity. I know nothing of the teachings of your church.
Where do babies come from? Not the physical birth part but their spirits. Wouldn't they be pure when they're born? Being they just got here?

Purgatory. I do know that confession is part of Catholicism. Why doesn't the Catholic confess those venial sins and just avoid purgatory all together? Can they do that? Are there rules that would preclude confession of venial sins? If someone did do that every confession on whatever schedule is prescribed would that let them go straight to heaven?
Doesn't carrying sins like venial one's after passing away say that Jesus didn't die for all sins on the cross?
How is a Catholic saved by his death from their sins if they carry one's that have to be atoned for after death?

I appreciate your helping my understanding here. It is a curious thing.

in most cases the souls of the fetuses/embryos come from the so-called "nothingness", a place that is represented as "dust of the ground" in the K.J. Bible (Genesis 2:7), where there are many souls in a state of nonexistence i.e. deep sleep without dreams (Daniel 12:2), but there were also souls that came from "heaven" such as the souls of Jesus Christ and John the Baptist

the modern, so-called "confession" (in confessional) is not in accordance with what is called "confession" in the biblical scriptures, "confession" means to repent of own sins including by consulting with a true Saint about what is sinful, of course in case such a Saint is ever available, and sin is the causation/infliction of harm/suffering to/on the neighbor/cohabitant, either spiritual or physical, but first of all sin is the spiritual iniquity, here is one very typical example of sin and confession from the Bible:

Acts 19:11-20 "God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed."

so here is how the spiritual iniquity of religious and esoteric/occult persons as well as of persons seeking/using occult services was most outstanding and still is, because most people that went to the true Saints at Ephesus were some kinds of clerics, worshipers, occultists, esotericists, idolaters, magicians, witches/fortune-tellers, etc. that consulted with Them about whether and how their spiritual/occult works are sinful in order to repent, and many of them brought their idolatrous/heretical/occult books to be publicly destroyed/burned as a good example of how all spiritual violators/offenders should act/repent

Blessings

 

[The Cadet]

What impression does it give when Christians believe they are to preach the gospel so that all may be saved from their sins, and then post threads that tell people that should they accept Christ and be redeemed they're actually not secure in that salvation like they thought?

It gives the impression that Christians really don't understand their own religion very well, and that, for all the clarity of the "word of god", it's actually extremely unclear. That's kind of a problem, don't you think? These aren't trivial problems - are you saved forever or just temporarily? Post-trib or pre-trib? Do you need to get baptized? There are 33,000 denominations of Christianity, and they can barely agree on anything other than that God and Jesus both existed. The disagreements in the church are not new; in fact, they caused quite a lot of problems for the Romans pretty much since they decided to take Christianity on as a state religion and continuing from there.

I'm kind of left wondering why it's so hard for you guys to figure out what God actually wants.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It gives the impression that Christians really don't understand their own religion very well, and that, for all the clarity of the "word of god", it's actually extremely unclear. That's kind of a problem, don't you think? These aren't trivial problems - are you saved forever or just temporarily? Post-trib or pre-trib? Do you need to get baptized? There are 33,000 denominations of Christianity, and they can barely agree on anything other than that God and Jesus both existed. The disagreements in the church are not new; in fact, they caused quite a lot of problems for the Romans pretty much since they decided to take Christianity on as a state religion and continuing from there.

I'm kind of left wondering why it's so hard for you guys to figure out what God actually wants.

Well, of course we don't know all of what God wants. No one does. And since the Bible is not a comprehensive tome of all there is to know or ever could be known, it's not that hard to figure out as to why it's hard for Christians to get to a "final word," Cadet!

2PhiloVoid

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I browse the forums where non-Christians aren't allowed to post. And I found quite a few threads making claims about eternal security in Jesus, or eternal salvation in him, isn't true?

Does anyone else find it odd that Christians would argue that is so? And how do they do that when they're saying that about themselves first?

I would think a Christian forum believes itself to at all times present the image of God and Christ to anyone who reads its pages. A ministry of sorts that is there to inform those who are not Christian about that faith should they happen on the site.

What impression does it give when Christians believe they are to preach the gospel so that all may be saved from their sins, and then post threads that tell people that should they accept Christ and be redeemed they're actually not secure in that salvation like they thought?

I suppose that wouldn't sound like "good news" now would it?
.
I tend to look past the idea of "being saved" and look at the idea of being born again. The older traditions that think of "people losing their salvation" in the language of post reformation denominations, tend to think of life as a journey, and that one's (second) birth simply does not become revoked because they became evil later on.
.
For myself however, thinking of being born again, this is being born again by virtue of the very substance God is made of .. so if someone who is born again by the Holy Spirit can "die" and no longer be born again and participate in the divine nature ... what then does this imply about God? Can God also die?
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It is possible that some church traditions or denominations feel that it is necessary to make a mistake of passing judgment on something that only God would know anyway ... so perhaps that's why there's so much confusion.
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Good observation.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Cadet.

You asked the following question.

I'm kind of left wondering why it's so hard for you guys to figure out what God actually wants

We know exactly what God wants from us, it's just that we are so reluctant to actually do what He wants.
I also know precisely what God wants from you Cadet, bend your knees to Jesus. Very simple, Cadet.

 

[The Cadet]

We know exactly what God wants from us,

Maybe you wanna hash that out with @2PhiloVoid ?

 

[bhsmte]

Hello Cadet.

You asked the following question.

We know exactly what God wants from us, it's just that we are so reluctant to actually do what He wants.
I also know precisely what God wants from you Cadet, bend your knees to Jesus. Very simple, Cadet.

Funny, a whole lot of people seem to disagree on what they perceive God wanting.

 

[ananda]

I browse the forums where non-Christians aren't allowed to post. And I found quite a few threads making claims about eternal security in Jesus, or eternal salvation in him, isn't true?

Does anyone else find it odd that Christians would argue that is so? And how do they do that when they're saying that about themselves first?

I would think a Christian forum believes itself to at all times present the image of God and Christ to anyone who reads its pages. A ministry of sorts that is there to inform those who are not Christian about that faith should they happen on the site.

What impression does it give when Christians believe they are to preach the gospel so that all may be saved from their sins, and then post threads that tell people that should they accept Christ and be redeemed they're actually not secure in that salvation like they thought?

IMO I would say that's because those Christians understand that the Christian scriptures, in their original languages, do not speak of eternal salvation. Instead, salvation is described as lasting for an aeon. E.g., John 3:16:

"Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον"​

The part I bolded and underlined, transliterated "zoen aionion" means "life for an aeon". I wrote more about that here.

 

[klutedavid]

Funny, a whole lot of people seem to disagree on what they perceive God wanting.

Hello Bhsmte.

Your not wrong in what you said, the distortion to the original transmission is very significant.
It is almost impossible to filter out the noise, though should you seek the truth, you will find the truth.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Funny, a whole lot of people seem to disagree on what they perceive God wanting.

This has been the case throughout history.

Notice that Jesus disciples were taught and trained by Him, and even Jesus told Peter that Peter know and recognized the truth because ABBA revealed it to Peter and NOT because Jesus had told Peter, and NOT because Peter was smart and had studied and knew Torah.

The key : ABBA revealed the Truth to Peter (and to the rest of the disciples who were called and chosen and abiding in Jesus).
That is where strength and joy and love and peace and truth is - abiding in Jesus, taught / revealed by ABBA.

The rest of mankind will always disagree - that's been the case throughout history!

 

[The Cadet]

It is almost impossible to filter out the noise, though should you seek the truth, you will find the truth.

There are 33,000 denominations of Christianity, all with different opinions of "the truth". Were they all seeking?

 

[Freodin]

The rest of mankind will always disagree - that's been the case throughout history!

The rest of mankind... indeed.

As we all know, there are two groups of people: those who abide in Jesus and were revealed the truth by God Himself, people like me... and people who claim to abide in Jesus and to have been revealed the truth by God Himself, people who disagree with me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The rest of mankind... indeed.

As we all know, there are two groups of people: those who abide in Jesus and were revealed the truth by God Himself, people like me... and people who claim to abide in Jesus and to have been revealed the truth by God Himself, people who disagree with me.

You forgot , perhaps, the multitudes
who don't know Jesus, don't want to know Jesus, don't even like Jesus, don't abide in Jesus and would not when given the choice or the chance if it was ever presented,
and those particular ones (in some churches)
who have no idea what "abide in Jesus" (and in His Word) means,
but they're comfortable in their pews so please observe the "QUIET - Do Not Disturb" sign.

 

[Freodin]

You forgot , perhaps, the multitudes
who don't know Jesus, don't want to know Jesus, don't even like Jesus, don't abide in Jesus and would not when given the choice or the chance if it was ever presented,
and those particular ones (in some churches)
who have no idea what "abide in Jesus" (and in His Word) means,
but they're comfortable in their pews so please observe the "QUIET - Do Not Disturb" sign.

Nope, I didn't "forget" those "multitudes". In the first draft of my post, I did indeed say "only two groups"... and then noticed exactly the objection that you now presented. So I changed it.
But even now I don't ignore the people who don't know Jesus, don't want to know Jesus or don't like Jesus... people who aren't Christians and don't claim to be Christians are not relevant for the question of who is the "true Christian".

Yet I see that you managed to ignore (how do you folk do that with a 100% hit rate?) the relevant part: the distinction between the two groups of "Christians".

One are those who do know what it means to abide in Jesus and His Word... people like you... and the people who only claim to know what it means to abite in Jesus and His Word... people who disagree with you.

Basically I could not care less about your intra-christian squabbles about who is right and who is wrong.

But just for the small chance that you really care about truth, honesty and integrity instead of slandering other people:
I would care a lot for the choice or chance of getting to know Jesus... if you were ever able to present something other than "I am right - the others are wrong."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Keep reading..... you missed it..... but you might still find it,
as God promises IF you seek Him and His Kingdom, and Keep Seeking Him and His Kingdom,
you will find Him....
and God always Keeps His Word.

 

[Freodin]

Keep reading..... you missed it..... but you might still find it,
as God promises IF you seek Him and His Kingdom, and Keep Seeking Him and His Kingdom,
you will find Him....
and God always Keeps His Word.

I really wonder how I am supposed to accept such a "promise", when all the people who keep blurbing about it only show the opposite.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I really wonder how I am supposed to accept such a "promise", when all the people who keep blurbing about it only show the opposite.

"all the people" will change when you change - if you get born again - a revelation that only God can provide, and He delights to -
Because, quite obviously, and simply,
you're not supposed to trust man;
trust God Who Himself made the Promise and remember
He Guards His Word even more than He Guards His Own Name !

As long as you trust man, or look to man,
same as anyone else, no one trusting in the flesh can know anything, and as
God says "Whoever trusts in man (flesh/mankind/people/man's ways/society)
I (God) curse." and
He can, and He does, all the time, every day.

 

[Freodin]

"all the people" will change when you change - if you get born again - a revelation that only God can provide, and He delights to -
Because, quite obviously, and simply,
you're not supposed to trust man;
trust God Who Himself made the Promise and remember
He Guards His Word even more than He Guards His Own Name !

As long as you trust man, or look to man,
same as anyone else, no one trusting in the flesh can know anything, and as
God says "Whoever trusts in man (flesh/mankind/people/man's ways/society)
I (God) curse." and
He can, and He does, all the time, every day.

So you admit that you are untrustworthy... but you keep spouting your own opinion of who is right and who is wrong.

Of course, you may claim that you are not presenting your own opinion... you are channeling God Himself, and you can do that, because you have been born again.

But again, I would have to take your word for that... and you have already admitted that you are untrustworthy.
So what am I left with? My own insight that I have been born again? Sorry, in contrast to some other people that I do not want to name, I am honest enough to know not to trust my own convictions on something like that. I'd like to have some independent verification.

And you know what is interesting? Every time I ask for that... I get nothing but excuses. It is as if all those "born again" people stop being born again as soon as they have to present their rebirth certificate.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you admit that you are untrustworthy... but you keep spouting your own opinion of who is right and who is wrong.

You just don't get it for some reason. We have God's Word, His Written Word as the Standard.

That is the Final Authority. The Only Real Authority.

If you trust any man, even if 'Paul' or an apostle or an angel of light appearing,
if they contradict God's Torah,
then
what difference are you ? Same as anyone else.

 

[Freodin]

You just don't get it for some reason. We have God's Word, His Written Word as the Standard.

That is the Final Authority. The Only Real Authority.

If you trust any man, even if 'Paul' or an apostle or an angel of light appearing,
if they contradict God's Torah,
then
what difference are you ? Same as anyone else.

Oh, I get it.
Tell me... who is it who right now tells me that he has "God's Word The Final Authority The Only Real Authority"?

Oh, yes, correct... a human.

Perhaps you just don't get it: you don't have anything to back up your claims. What you are telling me is: "Don't listen to me... listen to me!"