Is everything "meaningless" without God?

DogmaHunter

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If the true source of meaning comes from my brain, then that means the true source of meaning also comes from your brain and all the sudden we have a contradiction.

No contradiction.

The meaning you ascribe to things comes from your brain.
The meaning I ascribe to things comes from my brain.

This is why I can find things meaningfull that you don't and vice versa.

Seems rather obvious.

Which brain is the true source of meaning? Mine or yours? Can't be both.

Yours for your meaning, mine for mine.

Perhaps this comes as a surprise for you, but you can't actually use someone elses brain to process your own thoughts in some kind of distributed computation network.

That'ld certainly be cool though.
 
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DogmaHunter

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You say there is no ultimate meaning as if you know that to be fact. How do you know that to be fact?

Because different people find meaning in different things.

Is it a fact? Or are you just claiming it's a fact because that's what you believe to be true?
It's what we observe.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Because if all subjects can agree on the true meaning, then there can be true peace among all subjects.

1. I don't need my neighbours to have the same opinion on everything or find exactly the same things meaningfull as I do, in order to live in peace with them.

2. all subjects demonstrably don't agree on the meaning of things.
 
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DogmaHunter

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It's either because God is always right or because you're always right.

If you're not always right then the former is reasonable to assume.

So, one can only be right about one specific thing, if one is also right about everything else, always?

You're making less and less sense.
 
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Noxot

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Let me rephrase it:

God declares my purpose to be "x".

I declare my purpose to be "y".

Why is "x" true?

why can't they both be true? there need be no contradiction. there could be. I think only insane people love evil? freedom always allows for change. it is kind of weird to try to measure yourself and God through such a thin lens of reality.

X is true because it is fundamental.
 
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quatona

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So if God does not exist, the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for absolutely no reason.
Doesn´t follow.
All life, including our own, is nothing more than a byproduct of nature by natural means and when we die we will fade into nothing. Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness. With all that being said, what's the point? Is everything not meaningless?
Well, if you define "meaning" as requiring an outside perspective, then yes.
Without an outside God there is not outside God to whom our lives are meaningful. I´m not seeing a reason for all those laments about it, though. Who cares?


Edit: apparently there is some confusion on what the word "meaningless" means. The Hebrew word used for meaningless is הָ֫בֶל "hebel" which means futility, pointlessness, or fruitlessness. It has nothing to do with the purpose of something but rather what the end result of something.
End result at which point in time?

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?
Note how you reintroduced "purpose" right after you said "it has nothing to do with purpose".
I fail to see the analogy. I´m not pursuing any purposes that require there to be a God.
 
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Blondepudding

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The book of Ecclesiastes starts out with a startling exclamation:

“‘Meaningless! Meaningless!’
says the Teacher.
‘Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless’” (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

Other translations have the word vanity or futility in place of meaningless. The point is the same: Solomon in his old age has found everything in this world to be empty and void of meaning. This lament becomes the theme of the whole book.

Saying that everything is meaningless sounds depressing, but we must keep Solomon’s point of view in mind. This is found in Ecclesiastes 1:14: “I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.” The key phrase is under the sun, which is repeated throughout the book. Solomon is sharing an earth-bound perspective. He is only considering life “under the sun”; that is, a human life lived to the exclusion of any consideration of God. From that godless perspective, everything is indeed “meaningless.”

In the book of Ecclesiastes, Solomon discusses ten vanities—ten things that are “meaningless” when considered from the limited point of view of “under the sun.” Without God, human wisdom is meaningless (2:14–16); labor (2:18–23); amassing things (2:26); life itself (3:18–22); competition (4:4); selfish overwork (4:7–8); power and authority (4:16); greed (5:10); wealth and accolades (6:1–2); and perfunctory religion (8:10–14).

When Solomon says, “Everything is meaningless,” he did not mean that everything in the world is of zero value. Rather, his point is that all human efforts apart from God’s will are meaningless. Solomon had it all, and he had tried everything, but when he left God out of the equation, nothing satisfied him. There is purpose in life, and it is found in knowing God and keeping His commands. That’s why Solomon ends his book this way:

“Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind” (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

So if God does not exist, the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for absolutely no reason. All life, including our own, is nothing more than a byproduct of nature by natural means and when we die we will fade into nothing. Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness. With all that being said, what's the point? Is everything not meaningless?

Edit: apparently there is some confusion on what the word "meaningless" means. The Hebrew word used for meaningless is הָ֫בֶל "hebel" which means futility, pointlessness, or fruitlessness. It has nothing to do with the purpose of something but rather what the end result of something.

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?

I could swear the monkey in your avatar should be animated. Cute fella. :)

Now to the question.
Everyone is born without knowledge of what is eventually sorted out and defined as, god.
And when god is sorted out and defined, what is that? The image and likeness of the humans who believe. Regardless of the religion.
Even pagans make their deities in the image and likeness of human personality and animistic characteristics.

Does that mean nature conforms to the ideology? Does that mean that the first cause behind everything we imagine is real in reality is as we have created in doctrines and books?

Or rather, is 'god' a placebo? So that we puny carbon entities with an ego larger than our intellect can feel as we act since at least the dawn of the first age? As if we're in control of everything? Even what we first as the religious admit is invisible.
 
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