Is everything "meaningless" without God?

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The book of Ecclesiastes starts out with a startling exclamation:

“‘Meaningless! Meaningless!’
says the Teacher.
‘Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless’” (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

Other translations have the word vanity or futility in place of meaningless. The point is the same: Solomon in his old age has found everything in this world to be empty and void of meaning. This lament becomes the theme of the whole book.

Saying that everything is meaningless sounds depressing, but we must keep Solomon’s point of view in mind. This is found in Ecclesiastes 1:14: “I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.” The key phrase is under the sun, which is repeated throughout the book. Solomon is sharing an earth-bound perspective. He is only considering life “under the sun”; that is, a human life lived to the exclusion of any consideration of God. From that godless perspective, everything is indeed “meaningless.”

In the book of Ecclesiastes, Solomon discusses ten vanities—ten things that are “meaningless” when considered from the limited point of view of “under the sun.” Without God, human wisdom is meaningless (2:14–16); labor (2:18–23); amassing things (2:26); life itself (3:18–22); competition (4:4); selfish overwork (4:7–8); power and authority (4:16); greed (5:10); wealth and accolades (6:1–2); and perfunctory religion (8:10–14).

When Solomon says, “Everything is meaningless,” he did not mean that everything in the world is of zero value. Rather, his point is that all human efforts apart from God’s will are meaningless. Solomon had it all, and he had tried everything, but when he left God out of the equation, nothing satisfied him. There is purpose in life, and it is found in knowing God and keeping His commands. That’s why Solomon ends his book this way:

“Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind” (Ecclesiastes 12:13).

So if God does not exist, the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for absolutely no reason. All life, including our own, is nothing more than a byproduct of nature by natural means and when we die we will fade into nothing. Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness. With all that being said, what's the point? Is everything not meaningless?

Edit: apparently there is some confusion on what the word "meaningless" means. The Hebrew word used for meaningless is הָ֫בֶל "hebel" which means futility, pointlessness, or fruitlessness. It has nothing to do with the purpose of something but rather what the end result of something.

An example would be a man trying to build a house next to the ocean and every day for the rest of his life the tide came in and swept his work away. The purpose of his work is to build a house. However, what does he have to show for all his labor in the end?
 
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Eudaimonist

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So if God does not exist, the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for absolutely no reason.

Perhaps I'm being nit picky, but I don't believe that the universe was created. Period. Not even from "nothing".

All life, including our own, is nothing more than a byproduct of nature by natural means and when we die we will fade into nothing.

Yes, isn't it great? We didn't have to exist at all. And yet we exist anyway. Our existence is amazing.

Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness. With all that being said, what's the point? Is everything not meaningless?

Why would life be meaningless? You have yet to give one good reason why that should be so. Origins don't matter. Death doesn't matter. The future of the universe doesn't matter. None of those things make life meaningless.

The point of life is found within life. That is what you are missing. You're looking in the wrong place.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Kenny'sID

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Had God had not existed, Solomon might well have a whole different outlook due to having nothing to compare meaning and meaningless to. If that were the case, one thought could be to say... eat drink and be merry, all life is good for is to enjoy what little time we have, then die for good. That might have a little meaning but for all intents and purposes, for such a short time, it's pretty much....well, meaningless.

On the others side of the coin, I suppose one could find meaning in trying to better mankind with what little time they have, and though that would have more meaning than the flip side, as short as our time is and with the eventual demise of the earth you mention, not much there either.

Or not, haven't really thought about it till now but in the end, it's all pretty much meaningless if we can't live forever, and just that fact is a big part of it. God makes that possible as well as bring tons of meaning to what we do here and now to make sure that happens for ourselves and others.
 
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Eryk

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Joy simply exists when we stop looking for joy in things. But this also applies to religious things like fleeting experiences, idealistic expectations of community life, and tediously routine Sunday services (in evangelicalism too) that make you feel like a robot. Some have left Christianity over this, but the whole point is that God is bigger than anything we can think or say or feel or do. It is very odd that religious people would avoid transcendence and get stuck in their plastic smiles and pat doctrines. This just won't work for sensitive, thinking people, like Ecclesiastes, who are earnestly looking for something more meaningful than slogans.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Had God had not existed, Solomon might well have a whole different outlook due to having nothing to compare meaning and meaningless to. If that were the case, one thought could be to say... eat drink and be merry, all life is good for is to enjoy what little time we have, then die for good. That might have a little meaning but for all intents and purposes, for such a short time, it's pretty much....well, meaningless.

What does time span have to do with meaning, especially if a finite life is meaningful "for all intents and purposes"? A brief meaningful life is still a meaningful life.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Kenny'sID

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What does time span have to do with meaning, especially if a finite life is meaningful "for all intents and purposes"? A brief meaningful life is still a meaningful life.

You jumped to quickly there, did I say in either scenario it was completely meaningless? IMO, there is more meaning to life when we have an eternity...why, because it just is to me, and if you don't get that or agree, then you disagree...period. This is not something I have to prove or support with scripture, it's JMO.
 
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Eudaimonist

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You jumped to quickly there, did I say in either scenario it was completely meaningless? IMO, there is more meaning to life when we have an eternity...why, because it just is to me, and if you don't get that or agree, then you disagree...period. This is not something I have to prove or support with scripture, it's JMO.

Fair enough.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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civilwarbuff

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What does time span have to do with meaning, especially if a finite life is meaningful "for all intents and purposes"? A brief meaningful life is still a meaningful life.


eudaimonia,

Mark
I've yet to see any reason to believe that everything is meaningless without your god.
Maybe you would care to give your definition of meaninful/meaningless?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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So if God does not exist, the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for absolutely no reason. All life, including our own, is nothing more than a byproduct of nature by natural means and when we die we will fade into nothing. Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness. With all that being said, what's the point? Is everything not meaningless?
So the only way for your life to have meaning is for you to have some influence over the end state of the universe?
 
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Eudaimonist

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Maybe you would care to give your definition of meaninful/meaningless?

I'd like to hear the OP author's definition of meaning.

My sense of the word meaning in this context is that if one claims that life is meaningful, that means that life matters (that is, makes a difference) in some way for some purpose. My view is that one's own existence matters to oneself in a fundamental way in that life is an end-in-itself, not merely a means to something external to itself. We don't have to matter externally to the future of humanity, or to the cosmos, or to the Infinite. We only have to matter to ourselves in order for our lives to be meaningful. Meaning is at least partly self-contained, not dependent on external events not only beyond our control, but beyond our own existence.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Freodin

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Hm... maybe Solomon is simply wrong in his assertion, and his disappointment comes from his personal view, not any objective truth?

After all, objectively "keeping God's commandments" is just as meaningless in the end.
 
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I'd like to hear the OP author's definition of meaning.

mean·ing·less
ˈmēniNGləs/
adjective
having no meaning or significance.
"the paragraph was a jumble of meaningless words"
synonyms: unintelligible, incomprehensible, incoherent
"a jumble of meaningless words"
having no purpose or reason.
"the Great War was an outstanding example of meaningless conflict"
synonyms: futile, pointless, aimless, empty, hollow, blank, vain, purposeless, valueless, useless, of no use, worthless, senseless, trivial, trifling, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential
"she felt her life was meaningless"

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk
 
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How meaningful is the life of a single virus cell? Looking the awesome vastness of the universe, without God, are we not just as meaningless as a single virus cell?

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Eryk

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Ultimately the universe will use up all its energy (per the laws of thermodynamics ) and fade into blackness.
This is only a problem if a person has the opinion, "the universe is this way, therefore I have to feel bad." All of this existential, overwrought, tragic-sense-of-life, French ennui is based on a made-up opinion. A person is equally capable of thinking that life and the universe are just fine.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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How meaningful is the life of a single virus cell? Looking the awesome vastness of the universe, without God, are we not just as meaningless as a single virus cell?
Is a virus capable of contemplating its own existence? No. So what good is this comparison?
 
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Eudaimonist

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mean·ing·less
ˈmēniNGləs/
adjective
having no meaning or significance.
"the paragraph was a jumble of meaningless words"
synonyms: unintelligible, incomprehensible, incoherent
"a jumble of meaningless words"
having no purpose or reason.
"the Great War was an outstanding example of meaningless conflict"
synonyms: futile, pointless, aimless, empty, hollow, blank, vain, purposeless, valueless, useless, of no use, worthless, senseless, trivial, trifling, unimportant, insignificant, inconsequential
"she felt her life was meaningless"

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

All you have done is quote Webster...and mentioned conflicting definitions.

In your own words and in the context of this discussion, what is meaning?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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