How is the law and sabbath different?

[from scratch]

It is unclear that simply quoting the Bible is "misuse".

It is unclear that simply quoting a part of the Bible that you find unpleasant "is misuse" or "against the rules" of the board.

It is unclear that your post "is being nice".

in Christ,

Bob

Hog wash. Yes I know all to well how the Bible is treated on this site. I also know all to well how people use it. I used to be bruised black and blue and bleeding by them for years. Let me tell you its absolutely awesome to be free from that abuse.

Perhaps you really would like me to say that I'm really not a Christian because I don't keep the Sabbath, thereby avoiding the innuendo of the quoted verse. Bet the verse isn't quoted to sabbatarians. At least I've never seen it here in CF. Perhaps you can show it has.

 

[Raeneske]

The Ten Commandments were not added because of sin. The ceremonial law, which pointed to the cross, was added because of sin.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The Ten Commandments are as sacred as God Himself. They are that which shows the character of God. The Creator's name is shown in the 10 commandments, which was proclaimed before Moses as well.

Exodus 34:5-7 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The Lord's name, is proclaimed within commandment number two.

Exodus 20:5-6 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God is jealous, and visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Him, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Him and keep His commandments.

God's character was not nailed to the cross, and God's character was not written down for men to see, that they may do away with it. God's character is eternal, much like His law. For those that keep His commandments, mercy for eternity. For those that break them, everlasting death. And as Jesus said, if you love Him, keep His commandments, so too is that found within the law of God.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[annier]

Paul's discourse is: The law was added to 'the promise' (Abrahamic covenant)

I do not think so Cribstyl. The covenant is the promises, it cannot be added to nor taken away from. That covenant was established in Issac.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

The covenant given at Sinai, had not yet been confirmed before the people broke it. Therefore the law ( I believe of the levitical priesthood) was added

Gal 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

In reference to Gen 26:5, the laws that Abraham was given is about circumcision.

I have sometimes thought that myself. But I think Abraham kept the law of faith. All that Abe did by faith was the law of faith IMO.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

[from scratch]

The Ten Commandments were not added because of sin. The ceremonial law, which pointed to the cross, was added because of sin.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The Ten Commandments are as sacred as God Himself. They are that which shows the character of God. The Creator's name is shown in the 10 commandments, which was proclaimed before Moses as well.

Exodus 34:5-7 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The Lord's name, is proclaimed within commandment number two.

Exodus 20:5-6 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God is jealous, and visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Him, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Him and keep His commandments.

So what is this iniquity and how does it manifest?

God's character was not nailed to the cross, and God's character was not written down for men to see, that they may do away with it. God's character is eternal, much like His law. For those that keep His commandments, mercy for eternity. For those that break them, everlasting death. And as Jesus said, if you love Him, keep His commandments, so too is that found within the law of God.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The law including the Ten Commandments aren't God's character nor do they describe Him.

 

[from scratch]

I do not think so Cribstyl. The covenant is the promises, it cannot be added to nor taken away from. That covenant was established in Issac.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

The covenant given at Sinai, had not yet been confirmed before the people broke it. Therefore the law ( I believe of the levitical priesthood) was added

I have sometimes thought that myself. But I think Abraham kept the law of faith. All that Abe did by faith was the law of faith IMO.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Please read Ex 19.

 

[from scratch]

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson,
The Seventh-day Baptists et al

-- do not consider the 4th commandment to be "not among the Ten" or "not included in the moral law of God".

And that also goes for the Catholic Catechism.

All of them regard the TEN COMMANDMENTS as included in the "moral law" of God and binding on mankind in both OT and NT - including the saints.

So the vast majority of Christians are not trying to delete the 4th commandment from the TEN - (at least their informed clergy are not). So they do get that basic Bible point correct.

But many of them then try to "bend the 4th" so it points to some other day than the one that God gave in the actual Bible-- after the cross.

in Christ,

Bob

Yes its a problem for most all clergy. To keep their pay check they have to tell the people what they want to hear and protects their scam. Most wil never understand what I just wrote.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The law including the Ten Commandments aren't God's character nor do they describe Him.

Yes, this is not scriptural because God doesn't need the 10 commandments to exist he existed before creation before sin before the Law and unless he changed to "need" his character defined by something that was non existent at one time I would say this would make God.... not God.

 

[BobRyan]

If the law is of the ten commandments and the sabbath is part of the 10 commandments, then how come they are considered different?

Not everyone is willing to "imagine" the downsizing or deleting of the TEN Commandments - even among Sunday keeping groups.

That should be a clue to those who oppose the Bible teaching on the TEN Commandments as being the moral law of God written on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33.

The Bible is where we are also told that for all eternity "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

in Christ,
Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Yes its a problem for most all clergy. To keep their pay check they have to tell the people what they want to hear

Some will say that the Sabbath commandment can be "bent" to point to week day 1.

Others will claim that "it does not matter" whether we "KEEP the Commandments of God" even though the actual Bible say "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

Yet Paul explains in Romans 8:6-8 that the lost will be at war with the Law of God - and the saints will not.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Raeneske]

So what is this iniquity and how does it manifest?The law including the Ten Commandments aren't God's character nor do they describe Him.

Iniquity defined by the Strong's Concordance -

perversity, that is, (moral) evil: - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

Iniquity manifests by the continual rejection of God's love, mercy, and obedience to His laws. This continual rejection leads to God giving them up to their faults, and they shall be judged. For example:

Romans 1:18-19, 24, 26 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

The Ten Commandments do indeed give evidence of the character of God, for God is love. And love is the fulfilling of the law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If one claims to love their neighbor, but does commits adultery, or steals, it is evidence that they do not love their neighbor. But, if one does these things, it is evident that they do indeed love their neighbor. And God loves us, and not even God breaks His own commandments. His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, also manifested love towards mankind, not breaking any of The Ten Commandments, and loves His Father, not breaking any of the first four commandments. And Jesus kept the law in all perfections, manifesting the perfect obedience that is to be fulfilled in us. As Jesus says, if you love Him, keep His commandments, which quotes almost directly from the second commandment.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Breaking the commandments, is not love. Murder & hate are not love, theft is not love, all sexual perversion is not love, etc. The law points all out all sin, not in the letter, but in the spirit, of which we are to serve the law of God, in the newness of Spirit, in the mind of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Romans 7:12, 14, 25 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[annier]

Please read Ex 19.

Ok, I read it. Could you please make your point?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by annier

I do not think so Cribstyl. The covenant is the promises, it cannot be added to nor taken away from. That covenant was established in Issac.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

The covenant given at Sinai, had not yet been confirmed before the people broke it. Therefore the law ( I believe of the levitical priesthood) was added

I have sometimes thought that myself. But I think Abraham kept the law of faith. All that Abe did by faith was the law of faith IMO.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
​

Please read Ex 19.

Ok, I read it. Could you please make your point?

I am sure most of us have read it.
I also would like to see the point of it.....


.

 

[from scratch]

Ok, I read it. Could you please make your point?

Sure. The COI agreed to the covenant issued verbally prior to Moses coming back with the stone tablets. The COI broke the covenant while Moses was getting the stone tablets.

 

[from scratch]

The Ten Commandments were not added because of sin. The ceremonial law, which pointed to the cross, was added because of sin.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What exactly is transgression if it isn't sin?

 

[from scratch]

I do not think so Cribstyl. The covenant is the promises, it cannot be added to nor taken away from. That covenant was established in Issac.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

The covenant given at Sinai, had not yet been confirmed before the people broke it. Therefore the law ( I believe of the levitical priesthood) was added

I have sometimes thought that myself. But I think Abraham kept the law of faith. All that Abe did by faith was the law of faith IMO.
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

In Deuteronomy 5 Moses talks about the covenant and proceeds with the Ten Commandments. In Ex 31:13 Moses says the 4th commandment is the sign of the covenant. How then would the Ten Commandments not be the covenant. The promises of the people certainly aren't what Moses was talking about being given to anyone previously.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

Sure. The COI agreed to the covenant issued verbally prior to Moses coming back with the stone tablets. The COI broke the covenant while Moses was getting the stone tablets.

So what? They were disciplined, purged and again accepted the covenant. Are you trying to say they broke the covenant as it was being made, no longer to be seen as functioning even before it was given?

 

[from scratch]

Not everyone is willing to "imagine" the downsizing or deleting of the TEN Commandments - even among Sunday keeping groups.

That should be a clue to those who oppose the Bible teaching on the TEN Commandments as being the moral law of God written on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33.

The Bible is where we are also told that for all eternity "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

in Christ,
Bob

This is only a slick way to say the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts. This isn't so. V 32 says Not according to... which doesn't mean like or the same as. God didn't write the covenant issued at Sinai on our hearts.

 

[Sophrosyne]

This is only a slick way to say the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts. This isn't so. V 32 says Not according to... which doesn't mean like or the same as. God didn't write the covenant issued at Sinai on our hearts.

You know all but the Sabbath command I've seen Christians refrain from doing or "keeping" as far as the 10 commandments I guess none of them had nothing written on their hearts according to some here.

 

[Shema Yisrael]

This is only a slick way to say the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts. This isn't so. V 32 says Not according to... which doesn't mean like or the same as. God didn't write the covenant issued at Sinai on our hearts.

Not according to is qualified by 'how' it was given. Not what was given, or who it was given to. Just how it is applied.

 

[from scratch]

Iniquity defined by the Strong's Concordance -

perversity, that is, (moral) evil: - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

Iniquity manifests by the continual rejection of God's love, mercy, and obedience to His laws. This continual rejection leads to God giving them up to their faults, and they shall be judged. For example:

Romans 1:18-19, 24, 26 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

The Ten Commandments do indeed give evidence of the character of God, for God is love. And love is the fulfilling of the law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If one claims to love their neighbor, but does commits adultery, or steals, it is evidence that they do not love their neighbor. But, if one does these things, it is evident that they do indeed love their neighbor. And God loves us, and not even God breaks His own commandments. His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, also manifested love towards mankind, not breaking any of The Ten Commandments, and loves His Father, not breaking any of the first four commandments. And Jesus kept the law in all perfections, manifesting the perfect obedience that is to be fulfilled in us. As Jesus says, if you love Him, keep His commandments, which quotes almost directly from the second commandment.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Breaking the commandments, is not love. Murder & hate are not love, theft is not love, all sexual perversion is not love, etc. The law points all out all sin, not in the letter, but in the spirit, of which we are to serve the law of God, in the newness of Spirit, in the mind of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Romans 7:12, 14, 25 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Are you SDA? You're certainly pushing their teaching.

It isn't perverse to not keep a covenant that has no jurisdiction.

OK you've already made that statement of unfounded personal opinion about obeying God's law. The problem as I see it is there is a New Covenant. That by itself means there used to be another covenant.

The Ten Commandments have nothing to do with God's character.

Have you read John 15:10? If so please identify the 2 sets of commandments Jesus talked about.

Who is God speaking to in Ex 20:6?

You know I'm with you on the not sinning part. Paul lists a group of sins in Gal 5 without once referring to them as violations of the law. Instead he calls them lusts of the flesh. In Romans 5 Paul says sin was before the law. In Gal 3Paul says the law came after Abraham which agrees with Moses' statement of Deut 5:3.

Please explain what you mean by quoting Phil 2:5.