How important is respect and obedience in a wife?

[Martingale]

In an intimate relationship such as marriage..those ACTS can not be distinguised from one another.

The "acts" themselves with the emotion not present..can "appear" both lovign and respectful.

The act you described the man doing in your example you called a "loving act"..Why?If there is no emotion behind it especially that same act could be just as easily labled a "respectful " act..You can not tell the two apart..

Dallas

I'm not making the distinction, St. Paul does in Ephesians. it could be a distinction without a difference. on the other hand, I'd characterize the situation where a husband gives 100% of personal care to his dying wife of 60 years for the last 6 months of her life more of an act of love rather than of respect.

 

[dallasapple]

I'm not making the distinction, St. Paul does in Ephesians. it could be a distinction without a difference. on the other hand, I'd characterize the situation where a husband gives 100% of personal care to his dying wife of 60 years for the last 6 months of her life more of an act of love rather than of respect.

Well as far as Im concerned it makes no sense to keep saying 'Paul said" when in fact you cant make any distinction in a marriage ..or lets say not usually anyway..your example of the guy putting down the remote YOU used as an example of a husband "acting" in a loving manner when he didnt necessarily "feel" any love at the time..I am saying thats more typical of the type of a situation a spouse might 'act" with no feelings behind it and I can NOT tell the difference between that being a respecftul act and a lovign act..You used the example and I for one can NOT tell the difference..it could be loving ..it could be respectful ..it could be BOTH at the same TIME.

The personal care for the dying wife of 60 years for 6 months sure I would say is a loving act..within that care though Im going to bet when you use the word "dying and personal care" in one sentence that loving act is a sum total of 100's of respectful acts though.So which one is it?Because what is the opposite of respect?DISRESPECT..And you certainly can not say..caring for her for six months is "disrespecftul can you ?And we arent allowed to say its from a "feeling" according to ya'll there can be no feelings behind it.

The two in an intimate relationship and long term as you pointed out 60 years are clearly interdependent to the extent they "blur" together and one can not be (usually) distinctive from the other.

I'll give an example..if my husband is sleeping..and Im awake...maybe Im sure to not make a lot of noise so as not to wake him up..or even tell the children "yall be quiet Daddy is sleeping"..Now you can say thats "respectful" ..sure it is..BUT since Im in a "love' based relationship with him..hes not just my neighbor he is my husband..it cant be "distnquished" from a "lovign act" where as I might be acting out of love or concern for instance that he needs his sleep for general health etc..

Here is what Im saying in a nutshell..there are loving acts and unloving acts..there are respecftul acts and disrespectful acts..If you are acting unlovingly I can gauratnee if someone asked does that appear "disrespectful" your answer would be YES.If you are acting disrespecftul and someone asked does this appear unloving the answer as well would be yes.

You can not be acting loving and disrespectul at the SAME time and vice versa.You can not be acting disrespecftul but be loving at the same time..that is why the DISTNCTION in a marraige can NOT be made.Especially when people want to completely REMOVE any "feelings" and reduce those EMOTIONS to nothing but "actions".

Dallas

 

[Bella Vita]

Oh boy all I can do is laugh...

Ok I have only been married a year but did a lot of marriage bible study before I got married. A women is called to respect her husband yes he is the leader of the house, he is her spiritual leader, he is the one who makes choices, and provides for his family. Now with that being said they are to make a decision together at first talk about it ect. The women still gets a voice the man is not a dictator they are to compromise. You talk about it first if you can't come to a decision then the man is to go to a pastor or higher authority to get help, and then he is to make the final choice that is best for the family and the wife is to respect that choice. A man is to love his wife as Jesus loved the church that means even laying down his own life for her if it is necessary. She comes first after God no matter what. With earned respect comes obedience from a wife.

I would suggest going through Mark Driscoll's Peasant Princess series it goes through song of songs it is all about marriage and the roles of the husband and wife and how those two roles works together ect. My husband and I did it before we got married it was great =]

This is week 1 they continue from there
Mars Hill Church | The Peasant Princess | Let Him Kiss Me

 

[kdillerd]

From all that I was taught and experienced, obedience from a wife to her husband is very important. The Husband is the leader, provider, protector, and hardworker. God placed a woman by a mans side to be his help meet, comforter, lover, and to bring forth virtue, purity, humbleness, meekness, and patience within the marriage and the family. The Husband is to Love his wife as Christ loves the church(the saints)...So even though the woman is known as the weaker vessel, she is reality brings strength and stability along with her husband.

 

[Created2Write]

Gabe, while there are many women out there who use men as their play thing, there are women in this world(myself, Niffer and others in this thread) who desperately love their husbands, and respect him when he stands up for himself. I, unfortunately, have the tendency to snap at my husband when I'm frustrated. He stands up for himself by asking me to, please not snap at him. I respect this. I don't want him to cower in the corner and let me have my way. I want him to challenge me to grow.

But men are not perfect angels either. My husband has a tendency to take my suggestions as me manipulating him into doing what I think is best, when all I am trying to do is help. For instance, he was recently granted unemployment benefits. Having never had them before, he didn't know there was a required orientation he had to attend. I told him, "You need to see when the next orientation is, and you need to attend or they will take away your benefits". I have had unemployment before, and knew the process. He didn't listen. Guess what? They took his benefits. I suggested he call them and schedule himself for the next orientation, and he flipped out. I told him, "You have never been in the unemployment cycle before, I have. It would be best if you yielded to my advice in this situation, and I wish I knew why you don't trust that I know what I'm saying." He apologized and admitted he needs to learn to listen to my suggestions better.

So, although the female race can be malicious at times, I promise that not all of us are...well, witches. Just like men can be dorks sometimes, not all of you are intentionally trying to control everything. So, as Spec has said, be careful when you choose a mate, and make sure she has the traits you desire in a Christian wife, but also make sure you're lining your own life up with the Word of God. There's nothing wrong with choosing your spouse carefully, in fact the Bible encourages us to not be unequally yoked. This requires careful preparation. However, you also need to make sure you are stepping towards being a Godly husband.

 

[If Not For Grace]

If a man loves his wife as he is commanded (as Christ loves the Church; willingly die for her, etc) there's not likely to be any problem--

Most women are willing for a man to be "king" if he treats her like a "queen".

My Mom (in her 80's now) says-"all the social problems we have today started when
Men quit being Men and Women had to take over both roles. I've thought about it
& its alot deeper than it initially sounds..

 

[chaz345]

If a man loves his wife as he is commanded (as Christ loves the Church; willingly die for her, etc) there's not likely to be any problem--

Most women are willing for a man to be "king" if he treats her like a "queen".

My Mom (in her 80's now) says-"all the social problems we have today started when
Men quit being Men and Women had to take over both roles. I've thought about it
& its alot deeper than it initially sounds..

But when did men quit being men and more importantly WHY did men quit being men?

 

[Autumnleaf]

But when did men quit being men and more importantly WHY did men quit being men?

It used to be that men brought home the bacon and the family appreciated that. Now they don't appreciate that and women increasingly want to do it. If hard work becomes a thankless job and somebody else wants to do it... the average guy will gladly step aside and leave the drudgery to someone else.

 

[If Not For Grace]

If hard work becomes a thankless job and somebody else wants to do it... the average guy will gladly step aside and leave the drudgery to someone else.

If you want a thankless job; try cleaning toilets, bathtubs, doing laundry & changing diapers & cooking meal after meal to have only complaints about too much salt, not enough gravy or whathave you. Try having to ask your spouse for every dime you want because you married a tightwad, alcoholic or porn addict.

Plus you are then supposed to be everthing they see on TV, Raise the Children, oh yeah & since most of em don't earn enough to suit themselves you are supposed to at "least" get a part-time job-- right? All of em want to lead, but few want to support.

Men quit being Men around the late 1850's throughout the 60's in MHO, Not all but in general. Perhpas it began with the "westward" movement, civil war and maybe World War II that brought it all to the forefront.

What is the ROOT of all evil-(we all know it's GREED)

Perhaps it was compounded by the roaring 20's when lust & other things moved to the forefront of our society and as any untreated illness have gotten progressively worse. And of course the 60-'s CAPPED it off-there's no going back now.

But When & Why or BLAME doesn't get us anywhere-really. It was probably some of all the above including the views that ALeaf has. Many Women never seem to be satisfified w/their man's income & want more & more things.

This is one of those problems that is not likely to be remedied-I figure we are going to have to just accept that the roles have changed for most households til Jesus comes back.

One thing that is Good that has come out of it all it I think we have found out there is only ONE race & that is HUMAN...
So if we can just all treat each other as human, maybe all the rest will not present so many problems.

 

[chaz345]

If you want a thankless job; try cleaning toilets, bathtubs, doing laundry & changing diapers & cooking meal after meal to have only complaints about too much salt, not enough gravy or whathave you. Try having to ask your spouse for every dime you want because you married a tightwad, alcoholic or porn addict.

Plus you are then supposed to be everthing they see on TV, Raise the Children, oh yeah & since most of em don't earn enough to suit themselves you are supposed to at "least" get a part-time job-- right? All of em want to lead, but few want to support.

Men quit being Men around the late 1850's throughout the 60's in MHO, Not all but in general. Perhpas it began with the "westward" movement, civil war and maybe World War II that brought it all to the forefront.

What is the ROOT of all evil-(we all know it's GREED)

Perhaps it was compounded by the roaring 20's when lust & other things moved to the forefront of our society and as any untreated illness have gotten progressively worse. And of course the 60-'s CAPPED it off-there's no going back now.

But When & Why or BLAME doesn't get us anywhere-really. It was probably some of all the above including the views that ALeaf has. Many Women never seem to be satisfified w/their man's income & want more & more things.

This is one of those problems that is not likely to be remedied-I figure we are going to have to just accept that the roles have changed for most households til Jesus comes back.

One thing that is Good that has come out of it all it I think we have found out there is only ONE race & that is HUMAN...
So if we can just all treat each other as human, maybe all the rest will not present so many problems.

When I asked when and why though I was not blaming anyone. But the statement you made about all social problems starting when men stopped being men DID seem to blame men.

When and why matters a great deal though if we want to get men to start choosing to be men again. Ultimately yes it is the man's responsibility that he chooses wrongly. But if the factors that go into that choice can be identified and changed, the wrong choice becomes less common.

Not so sure this speaks to the start of the problem but today right now, the reason that a lot of men aren't real men is because every message they've received from birth is that women don't want real men.

 

[mkgal1]

The Bible doesn't speak of "respect" as a feeling, but as an action (same with love, too). You can and should control your actions no matter how you "feel."

I think that love and respect have to be both an emotion AND an action. The verse that comes to mind immediately is 1 Corinthians 13:3

If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn't love others, I would have gained nothing.

This seems to be a very prevalent theology (love and respect are actions only)...and it seems to provide the perfect storm for the type of church that is mentioned in Revelations...the church that is rebuked for "leaving their first love".....doing all the right things....but, not having love for God.

 

[hijklmnop]

It used to be that men brought home the bacon and the family appreciated that. Now they don't appreciate that and women increasingly want to do it. If hard work becomes a thankless job and somebody else wants to do it... the average guy will gladly step aside and leave the drudgery to someone else.

Yes, it used to be much more common that men were the primary bringers-home-of-bacon and now that job is more often shared by both the husband and the wife...however, I think it's too broad to say that the husband's income is therefore not appreciated. I appreciate every hour of work my husband puts in and every dime he brings home, just as he does for me. I take issue with your assumption that working OUTSIDE the home is hard work and drudgery and being a stay-at-home parent ISN'T. From personal experience and many other stay-at-home moms I've spoken to, being at home full-time is just as difficult/drudgery if not MORESO than many out-of-the-home jobs. Quite honestly, I don't think I could ever DO the stay-at-home mom thing again. I'm blessed to love my job and thank goodness because our family needs the financial boost my job gives us. If one's job is considered drudgery, then find a job you love so you don't resent having to do it! It's worth the effort...we only live once. Might as well not hate what you do for 40 hours a week for 40 years.

A lot of the reason, btw, that many more women work nowadays than in the past is practical need...wages have gone up a certain amount over the decades, but the cost of living has skyrocketed in comparison. It is HARD to make ends meet these days esp on one income, and my husband and I both appreciate what we each bring to the family table financially. IMO, being the only one who brings home the bacon so you can then be the boss is SO not what a "real man" is. So all of you who keep talking about how men aren't "real" men anymore...what does that mean to you? What is a real man in your opinion and why aren't men "real" men anymore?? I think a lot of people think that men aren't "real" men anymore because their wives are being treated more as equals in the family, who bring home an income and have more of a say in family dynamics and decisions. But why does that DECREASE the manhood of the husband? IMO, displaying that kind of daily love and respect for a woman, the personal sacrifice it takes to treat her as an equal partner in the relationship, takes far more kahunas than simply bringing home a paycheque and then expecting to be the boss. Let's not forget that many of the women described as heroes of the faith in the Bible, even the Proverbs 31 wife and mother, were not generally the subservient types. They had voices, courage, and *gasp* maybe even worked for a living. This should not be a threat to men. This dynamic is not brand-new, it's not bad, and it's not hurting men or stripping them of their "real" manhood. It's just requiring men to be flexible and respect women as much as they do themselves and each other. Quite honestly I think it's kind of pathetic for a man to only be working for the accolades of his wife. It's great to hear and know that your wife appreciates what you do for the family/for a living (and vice versa, btw)...however, self-respect should dictate that you take pride in what you do and that you continue to do it because it's needed and it's right. If my husband didn't thank me for doing my job outside of the home I'd still do it and do it well because I take pride in my work, and take seriously the fact that we need the income from it.

 

[hijklmnop]

Not so sure this speaks to the start of the problem but today right now, the reason that a lot of men aren't real men is because every message they've received from birth is that women don't want real men.

I'm very curious for more clarification about this. What ARE "real men?" Because I sure as heck want (and now have) a "real" man. He works hard to make sure his family is taken care of financially, emotionally and spiritually. He treats me with love and respect, takes my opinions and input as seriously as his own, and is a very involved leader of a father to our kids. He is not a jellyfish or a coward when we have things to work out together, but he also doesn't go to the other extreme and wield his perceived God-given authority over me like an entitled child (anymore...LOL). This is the kind of man I was raised to want and honestly, I think it's the kind of man that MOST women want. I THINK that most women don't want a spineless jellyfish they can boss around, but nor do they want to be the spineless jellyfish being bossed around. I honestly think most women nowadays are looking for a strong partner who respects her as his equal, and I believe based on Biblical values of mutual submission and selfless, sacrificial love, that this is what men are called to be for their wives. We used to see it differently (the more "traditional" view of marriage and husbands' and wives' roles...he used to be the breadwinner and the "boss") and we're BOTH (yes, both of us, not just me) much happier now that our understanding and relationship dynamics have changed.

I seriously find this notion of "real" men interesting and hope more will weigh in on the subject!

 

[mkgal1]

The reason that a lot of men aren't real men is because every message they've received from birth is that women don't want real men.

I'm very curious for more clarification about this. What ARE "real men?" Because I sure as heck want (and now have) a "real" man. He works hard to make sure his family is taken care of financially, emotionally and spiritually. He treats me with love and respect, takes my opinions and input as seriously as his own, and is a very involved leader of a father to our kids. He is not a jellyfish or a coward when we have things to work out together, but he also doesn't go to the other extreme and wield his perceived God-given authority over me like an entitled child (anymore...LOL). This is the kind of man I was raised to want and honestly, I think it's the kind of man that MOST women want. I THINK that most women don't want a spineless jellyfish they can boss around, but nor do they want to be the spineless jellyfish being bossed around. I honestly think most women nowadays are looking for a strong partner who respects her as his equal, and I believe based on Biblical values of mutual submission and selfless, sacrificial love, that this is what men are called to be for their wives. We used to see it differently (the more "traditional" view of marriage and husbands' and wives' roles...he used to be the breadwinner and the "boss") and we're BOTH (yes, both of us, not just me) much happier now that our understanding and relationship dynamics have changed.

I seriously find this notion of "real" men interesting and hope more will weigh in on the subject!

I was thinking the same thing, when I read that.....because I THOUGHT I DID want a real man for a husband....so maybe the disconnect is in the definition of what that really is.

I can say that I am in the group along with you on what that "looks like" (a REAL man)....and that most women I talk to are in agreement.

So....maybe you can clarify Chaz...what IS a "real man"? And why do most women NOT want one? And who is responsible for sending these messages?

 

[Romanseight2005]

I'm very curious for more clarification about this. What ARE "real men?" Because I sure as heck want (and now have) a "real" man. He works hard to make sure his family is taken care of financially, emotionally and spiritually. He treats me with love and respect, takes my opinions and input as seriously as his own, and is a very involved leader of a father to our kids. He is not a jellyfish or a coward when we have things to work out together, but he also doesn't go to the other extreme and wield his perceived God-given authority over me like an entitled child (anymore...LOL). This is the kind of man I was raised to want and honestly, I think it's the kind of man that MOST women want. I THINK that most women don't want a spineless jellyfish they can boss around, but nor do they want to be the spineless jellyfish being bossed around. I honestly think most women nowadays are looking for a strong partner who respects her as his equal, and I believe based on Biblical values of mutual submission and selfless, sacrificial love, that this is what men are called to be for their wives. We used to see it differently (the more "traditional" view of marriage and husbands' and wives' roles...he used to be the breadwinner and the "boss") and we're BOTH (yes, both of us, not just me) much happier now that our understanding and relationship dynamics have changed.

I seriously find this notion of "real" men interesting and hope more will weigh in on the subject!

 

[chaz345]

Ultimate example of a real man is Jesus. And as much as this will be denied I guarantee that most women would not be happy being married to someone who accurately reflects all aspects of Jesus nature. Sure they all want the sacrificial love part but that's by no means all or even most of who He was/is. As soon as we start talking about the direct or confrontational part of Jesus nature we get all sorts of "reasons" why we can't be that way ranging from the plainly false notion that Jesus was that way only rarely or as a last resort, to "we don't have His perfect discernment so we can't know when we should act that way."

The talk of wielding authority like a spoiled child though tells me that I'm already being heard as saying something that hasn't even been brought up so I'm out. Have fun.

 

[hijklmnop]

Ultimate example of a real man is Jesus. And as much as this will be denied I guarantee that most women would not be happy being married to someone who accurately reflects all aspects of Jesus nature. Sure they all want the sacrificial love part but that's by no means all or even most of who He was/is. As soon as we start talking about the direct or confrontational part of Jesus nature we get all sorts of "reasons" why we can't be that way ranging from the plainly false notion that Jesus was that way only rarely or as a last resort, to "we don't have His perfect discernment so we can't know when we should act that way."

The talk of wielding authority like a spoiled child though tells me that I'm already being heard as saying something that hasn't even been brought up so I'm out. Have fun.

I find your first paragraph interesting but since you're out I guess there's no point responding and trying to have a discussion about it with you. You have said what you wanted to say, now you're walking out in a huff! I'll respond to it anyways in case anyone else is interested.

The problem is, believe it or not, wish to acknowledge it or not, there ARE a lot of men out there who misinterpret what the Bible describes a man's role should be in the home and DO wield authority like an entitled child. IMO, Autumnleaf's post referring to men not being appreciated for being the primary breadwinners anymore reflected that. I'm not saying at all that Autumn is an entitled child in his own home at all, I'm just acknowledging that many men feel that being a "real" man involves bringing home the only paycheque and therefore earning the right to be the appreciated authority in his home. I've lived with and once catered to that dynamic myself. The truth is, though, the Bible says nothing that promotes the common belief that wives should stay at home and do the housework and the parenting and men should go out and earn a living and then come home and let his family know who's boss. I didn't say YOU do or that you were advocating that behaviour, but apparently you've taken it that way. Ever wonder why so many women have difficulty with the authority/submission discussion? Perhaps because so many of us have dealt with men who believe that they have authority in the home on every gray-area issue JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MALE, or that earning the $$ makes the man, etc, and we have suffered for it. So I was curious as to what things people believe "make the man." If you can't handle that and it offends you then I guess you SHOULDN'T get into it.

As for the paragraph about Jesus being a real man...sure. He was the ultimate example of a human being for all of us. One can only speculate about how He would have interacted with a wife and children as He didn't have them. We can see how he was with crowds, people He was teaching, those who persecuted Him, and His friends. I agree that He showed sacrificial love but could also be very direct. I personally have no objections to people being direct and confrontational when they're certain about something. I have done it with my h when he was obviously in the wrong and he ultimately respected it, and vice versa. I appreciate directness and even believe it's necessary and the Christian community's responsibility to deliver it when morality is clear. However, I guess you see this as people's "last resort" and therefore wrong, but I think it IS important, especially in a marriage relationship, to stay humble and remember that we DON'T have the ultimately always-right discernment that Jesus as God Himself was blessed with. Often your spouse will have a different perspective in a situation than you, when the right/wrong is NOT so clear to both. OVERconfidence in a man who asserts his authority in the home can be a disastrous situation. If we believe that men and women both have brains, equal value and different perspectives, and if both are earnestly seeking out the will of the Lord but are not agreeing on something (happens a lot), then I believe it IS important for them to work together towards a solution they can both be at peace with instead of the man just putting down his foot and choosing his way because he thinks he can or should because he's the man. Truth is, men are just as fallible as women and women also have relationship with and insight from God that should be respected, listened to and honoured, IMO. This need to honour women's opinions and needs is why I believe the Bible spells out the requirement of husband's to go as far as to lay down his life for his wife. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but if a man is doing that he is going to be far from the man that wields his authority in the home like an entitled child as I described. Doesn't mean his WIFE is now "the boss" and gets the final say on all decisions either as some think, as she is also called to yield to her husband within the will of the Lord, so in reality BOTH are being urged to put each other's needs before their own.

 

[chaz345]

I find your first paragraph interesting but since you're out I guess there's no point responding and trying to have a discussion about it with you. You have said what you wanted to say, now you're walking out in a huff! I'll respond to it anyways in case anyone else is interested.

The problem is, believe it or not, wish to acknowledge it or not, there ARE a lot of men out there who misinterpret what the Bible describes a man's role should be in the home and DO wield authority like an entitled child. IMO, Autumnleaf's post referring to men not being appreciated for being the primary breadwinners anymore reflected that. I'm not saying at all that Autumn is an entitled child in his own home at all, I'm just acknowledging that many men feel that being a "real" man involves bringing home the only paycheque and therefore earning the right to be the appreciated authority in his home. I've lived with and once catered to that dynamic myself. The truth is, though, the Bible says nothing that promotes the common belief that wives should stay at home and do the housework and the parenting and men should go out and earn a living and then come home and let his family know who's boss. I didn't say YOU do or that you were advocating that behaviour, but apparently you've taken it that way. Ever wonder why so many women have difficulty with the authority/submission discussion? Perhaps because so many of us have dealt with men who believe that they have authority in the home on every gray-area issue JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MALE, or that earning the $$ makes the man, etc, and we have suffered for it. So I was curious as to what things people believe "make the man." If you can't handle that and it offends you then I guess you SHOULDN'T get into it.

As for the paragraph about Jesus being a real man...sure. He was the ultimate example of a human being for all of us. One can only speculate about how He would have interacted with a wife and children as He didn't have them. We can see how he was with crowds, people He was teaching, those who persecuted Him, and His friends. I agree that He showed sacrificial love but could also be very direct. I personally have no objections to people being direct and confrontational when they're certain about something. I have done it with my h when he was obviously in the wrong and he ultimately respected it, and vice versa. I appreciate directness and even believe it's necessary and the Christian community's responsibility to deliver it when morality is clear. However, I guess you see this as people's "last resort" and therefore wrong, but I think it IS important, especially in a marriage relationship, to stay humble and remember that we DON'T have the ultimately always-right discernment that Jesus as God Himself was blessed with. Often your spouse will have a different perspective in a situation than you, when the right/wrong is NOT so clear to both. OVERconfidence in a man who asserts his authority in the home can be a disastrous situation. If we believe that men and women both have brains, equal value and different perspectives, and if both are earnestly seeking out the will of the Lord but are not agreeing on something (happens a lot), then I believe it IS important for them to work together towards a solution they can both be at peace with instead of the man just putting down his foot and choosing his way because he thinks he can or should because he's the man. Truth is, men are just as fallible as women and women also have relationship with and insight from God that should be respected, listened to and honoured, IMO. This need to honour women's opinions and needs is why I believe the Bible spells out the requirement of husband's to go as far as to lay down his life for his wife. Not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but if a man is doing that he is going to be far from the man that wields his authority in the home like an entitled child as I described. Doesn't mean his WIFE is now "the boss" and gets the final say on all decisions either as some think, as she is also called to yield to her husband within the will of the Lord, so in reality BOTH are being urged to put each other's needs before their own.

I'd be happy to discuss privately but I've had this conversation seemingly a thousand times with a couple of the people involved and they are seemingly not interested in actual conversation/understanding.

I'll end my public involvement by saying that the idea that men are all about authority and being the boss/king is HUGELY overblown. Yes there are some out there, but it's a tiny fringe in today's world. If you want to discuss further PM me and I'll add additional thoughts.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I'm very curious for more clarification about this. What ARE "real men?" Because I sure as heck want (and now have) a "real" man. He works hard to make sure his family is taken care of financially, emotionally and spiritually. He treats me with love and respect, takes my opinions and input as seriously as his own, and is a very involved leader of a father to our kids. He is not a jellyfish or a coward when we have things to work out together, but he also doesn't go to the other extreme and wield his perceived God-given authority over me like an entitled child (anymore...LOL). This is the kind of man I was raised to want and honestly, I think it's the kind of man that MOST women want. I THINK that most women don't want a spineless jellyfish they can boss around, but nor do they want to be the spineless jellyfish being bossed around. I honestly think most women nowadays are looking for a strong partner who respects her as his equal, and I believe based on Biblical values of mutual submission and selfless, sacrificial love, that this is what men are called to be for their wives. We used to see it differently (the more "traditional" view of marriage and husbands' and wives' roles...he used to be the breadwinner and the "boss") and we're BOTH (yes, both of us, not just me) much happier now that our understanding and relationship dynamics have changed.

I seriously find this notion of "real" men interesting and hope more will weigh in on the subject!

I think most women are like most men. They don't want what they need so they end up unhappy and eventually divorced and they don't really know why.

 

[mkgal1]

I heard something recently about authority (from Romans....correct me if I'm relaying it improperly).....that only those UNDER authority...HAVE authority.......as along with that, trust is formed, and authority flows from trust....trust flows from truth. Even Jesus credited His authority to the Father.