How important is respect and obedience in a wife?

[dallasapple]

I don't think the marriage will get very far if the wife doesn't respect her husband, nor for that matter if the husband does not respect his wife. I think demanding total obedience is probably going to be the husband not respecting his wife, but that's just my opinion.

I agree especially if he believes she owes it to him under any conditions.And if there is not an equally important emphasis on respecting her in the marraige then its doomed to fail.

And the word "demanding" says it all I think..Love is not demanding.

Yep...us "American " women have high standards thats for sure...Im sure if we would just stop trying to elevate ourselves above the level of a lap dog then everything woud be peaches and cream for the man.

In the mean time sounds like some of the men need to move to a different country..where the women are so desperate they wont even notice they are their husbands pet...some men need a woman with very low expectations of what marriage is in order for him to be succesful at it..

Dallas

 

[Speculative]

LOL! ....wow.....
Hey, I was just pointing out your blanket statments - at least I haven't reduced to calling you names.
Maybe you'll feel better if you go play with your dog.

..suddenly your old post has been edited! ...interesting.

Niffer, you seem like a really nice lady, and I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

If my post seemed strident, it is only because I'm trying to counteract two misconceptions that I see so common in this forum:

1) Some of the younger folks give the impression that marriage is a non-stop E-ticket to Disneyland. I know you don't mean to do this, but the posts come across this way to me. Now, I agree with you guys that the early years of marriage are awesome, but after that, the relationship changes. True, in many cases it becomes even better, and deeper than it was during the early stages. But many--too many--take a dramatic turn for the worse once the initial feverish romantic years wear off. I want to make sure young men consider this when choosing a mate, and even while choosing rather to get married at all. I believe you and I would both agree that the OP of this particular thread would be better off remaining single unless he changes, rather drastically, his expectations and attitudes towards marriage. If my initial post causes him to pause and re-evaluate, then I feel I've done him a service.

2) Many women closer to my age around here and in the world seem to give the impression that men and masculinity are evil. The only good man, in their view, is one who is cowering in the corner hoping his wife will give him 20 minutes to check the football scores on TV after he goes to work to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition, argues with his wife because she accuses him of being too much of a workaholic, cleans the house, does the yard work, takes the daughter to soccer practice and leads the son's boy scout troop. If I can do anything to get the OP to pause and consider that this might be how his wife would act in 20 years, then I feel I've done him a service.

And just FYI, very little of my bitterness comes from my own marriage. I've only been married 17 years. I'm practically a newlywed. But I've been schooled for 43 years of my parents' 57 year marriage. This marriage only survived because my father was a cowering wimp in the presence of his abusive, domineering wife. He was content to let her break up all the rest of the family but hey, they kept the marriage together. I don't know why he put up with it all, but I would not want any man to have to put up with what he's had to deal with. If could do anything to help a young man avoid the pain my father's dealt with, I feel I've done him a service.

Niffer, I know that some marriages are happy and rewarding and fantastic. I hope that 20 years---and even 57--years from now, you and your husband are as happy in your marriage (or even happier) as you seem to be now.

God Bless you and have a great week.

 

[dallasapple]

2) Many women closer to my age around here and in the world seem to give the impression that men and masculinity are evil. The only good man, in their view, is one who is cowering in the corner hoping his wife will give him 20 minutes to check the football scores on TV after he goes to work to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition, argues with his wife because she accuses him of being too much of a workaholic, cleans the house, does the yard work, takes the daughter to soccer practice and leads the son's boy scout troop. If I can do anything to get the OP to pause and consider that this might be how his wife would act in 20 years, then I feel I've done him a service.

The thing is you accuse her(Niffer) of having a "disney world view" of marriage..like she is being silly and with her head in the clouds denial..(which she is NOT ..I've seen her posts and in her case her AGE hasnt spared her from some of the hardships that some have over years or even never at all)...but then you turn around and paint a completely opposite extreme and have a view that its in anyway a 'norm" and its this gruesome completely evil image of "women" treating her husband like a dog..

Whatever woman you know that thinks the only "good man" is one thats "cowering in the corner" hoping the wife gives him 20 minutes to check football scores and thats all hes getting out of his life ...I dont know any women here..I've been here a long time,,, that would agree thats a "good man"...but if you want to point her out to me I for one and I know many others that will tell her otherwise.

Dallas

 

[Speculative]

The thing is you accuse her(Niffer) of having a "disney world view" of marriage..like she is being silly and with her head in the clouds denial..(which she is NOT ..I've seen her posts and in her case her AGE hasnt spared her from some of the hardships that some have over years or even never at all)...but then you turn around and paint a completely opposite extreme and have a view that its in anyway a 'norm" and its this gruesome completely evil image of "women" treating her husband like a dog..

Whatever woman you know that thinks the only "good man" is one thats "cowering in the corner" hoping the wife gives him 20 minutes to check football scores and thats all hes getting out of his life ...I dont know any women here..I've been here a long time,,, that would agree thats a "good man"...but if you want to point her out to me I for one and I know many others that will tell her otherwise.

Dallas

Mmmmmmm! I love bacon!

 

[Romanseight2005]

Actually Spec, my idea of good men are the kind of men I put on the thread, "Examples of Godly Men."

 

[dreamer82]

Niffer, you seem like a really nice lady, and I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

If my post seemed strident, it is only because I'm trying to counteract two misconceptions that I see so common in this forum:

1) Some of the younger folks give the impression that marriage is a non-stop E-ticket to Disneyland. I know you don't mean to do this, but the posts come across this way to me. Now, I agree with you guys that the early years of marriage are awesome, but after that, the relationship changes. True, in many cases it becomes even better, and deeper than it was during the early stages. But many--too many--take a dramatic turn for the worse once the initial feverish romantic years wear off. I want to make sure young men consider this when choosing a mate, and even while choosing rather to get married at all. I believe you and I would both agree that the OP of this particular thread would be better off remaining single unless he changes, rather drastically, his expectations and attitudes towards marriage. If my initial post causes him to pause and re-evaluate, then I feel I've done him a service.

2) Many women closer to my age around here and in the world seem to give the impression that men and masculinity are evil. The only good man, in their view, is one who is cowering in the corner hoping his wife will give him 20 minutes to check the football scores on TV after he goes to work to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition, argues with his wife because she accuses him of being too much of a workaholic, cleans the house, does the yard work, takes the daughter to soccer practice and leads the son's boy scout troop. If I can do anything to get the OP to pause and consider that this might be how his wife would act in 20 years, then I feel I've done him a service.

And just FYI, very little of my bitterness comes from my own marriage. I've only been married 17 years. I'm practically a newlywed. But I've been schooled for 43 years of my parents' 57 year marriage. This marriage only survived because my father was a cowering wimp in the presence of his abusive, domineering wife. He was content to let her break up all the rest of the family but hey, they kept the marriage together. I don't know why he put up with it all, but I would not want any man to have to put up with what he's had to deal with. If could do anything to help a young man avoid the pain my father's dealt with, I feel I've done him a service.

You are stereotyping all American wives based on your parents' unhealthy marriage. I'm sorry it was like that in your household, but I'm afraid you're not doing anyone a "service" by perpetuating insulting and broad, untrue stereotypes about what marriage and women are like. Attitudes like yours only serve to deepen the divides between the sexes based on intolerance and misunderstanding and do nothing to strengthen relationships and marriage. I totally support the idea of people slowing down, taking time to mature and develop realistic expectations of what marriage may look like before taking the plunge, but you've gone beyond that to make marriage sound like a living hell for men because women are such abusive shrews. You think that is doing men a service? Really?

 

[dallasapple]

Actually Spec, my idea of good men are the kind of men I put on the thread, "Examples of Godly Men."

Well Romans!..Lets be more "realistic"..

Why dont we go with Specs idea of what it sounds like is a fairly high risk for him if he marries an "American woman"..

Lets start with me!Im an American woman..I've been married 23 years..

The man "cowering in the corner"hoping his wife" will give him 20 mintues to check the football scores????..To the OP..

Maybe it will bring you hope ...that my husband(married to an American woman ME)..doesnt prefer sports so much...he likes T>V though ..which he watches an average of 4 hours a day solid..Usually from about 7PM until 11PM ...every evening..and guess what the special part is..he doesnt have to "cower in the corner" waiting for me to let him do that..I guess Im unusual that i dont really give a rats rear end if he wants to watch t>v or not OR what hes watching..why shoud I care?I get to watch what I want pretty much whenever I feel like it and I dont have to ask HIS permission..see ???NOBODY is obedient to ANYONE....No one "cowers "waiting for permission to watch hours on end of regular t.v viewing let alone only a meager 20 minutes.."...and by the way..thats not the ONLY "free " time he has either ..he just doesnt spend all of it on T.V

Working and cleaing the house and mowing the lawn and taking kids to soccer and what else was it?Oh troop leader?..Um my husband was NEVER a soccer coach..never a boy scout leader.I arranged for my children to play sports I took them to practices and the games..my husband made every game and accompanied me on some of the practices..when I took the kids out of sports that was the end of that..my husband rarely ever even threw a ball to them in our own yard....Yes he worked but never overtime.he worked 40 hours a week plus about 5 hours travel..Now hes self employed with the BUSINESS I convinced him to start and invested my own money in (American girls can have stocks in Microsoft ).Clean the house?I did 98 percent of it whatever he did was because he WANTED to because hes a micro managing control freak..Now he does more because speaking of working over time?Becasue the nature of his BUSINESS being self employed..he is only usually GONE working maybe 5 hours a day ..so ...he cleans more because t,v gets boring after a while and he likes to "switch it up" some.Oh he mows the lawn..He in fact won't "allow" me to do it..he doesnt think I can do it right..If I mowed the lawn one day?He would have a panic attack..(its a masculine man thing I think)not because hes trying to "protect me" ..he litterally doesnt think I would be able to do it right..not like him..

He comes and goes as he pleases..the only expectation I have is for him to say "Im leaving" ..but he usually adds on to that a ramble of where and why(TMI as far as Im concerned) and says ..be back "later" or "this afternoon"..which I have ZERO input on unless its for a reason I need him here which is RARE..Other than that he walks in and out and plans his days everyday exactly how he sees fit..

Paying bills?Yep but what does that have to do with marriage?Last I heard single men dont get free homes and electricity or cars..(which by the way he drives a BRAND new car..I drive an old one.. but the shrew that I am aint complaining....When someone figures out a way that you dont have to pay any bills if you remain single Please let me know..I havent worked for most of the marriage but I did in the beginning as well as I mentioned I invested PLENTY of my own money to get the business started that now provides for ALL of us including HIMSELF...As far as paying for the kids college?We pay for that and his parents chip in because they WANT to even though we told them they didnt need too..and I do plan on going to work part time in the next couple of years..but right now I need to keep my grandson part time..which my husband WANTS me to do(keep our grandson)

But again what does paying for your kids college have to do with being marreid ?Let alone to an "American woman"?..Dont pay for it if you are going to begrudge it or act like its a favor to your WIFE is all I could say to that..

Anyway I think that covers pretty much the points brought up in what a real American wife thinks about this Idea that a good man is "cowering in the corner" while she decides if he can have 20 minutes to check football stats.Or that anything male or manly or masculine is "evil".

Dallas

 

[dreamer82]

2) Many women closer to my age around here and in the world seem to give the impression that men and masculinity are evil. The only good man, in their view, is one who is cowering in the corner hoping his wife will give him 20 minutes to check the football scores on TV after he goes to work to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition, argues with his wife because she accuses him of being too much of a workaholic, cleans the house, does the yard work, takes the daughter to soccer practice and leads the son's boy scout troop. If I can do anything to get the OP to pause and consider that this might be how his wife would act in 20 years, then I feel I've done him a service.

Haha, okay, I'll compare and contrast too just for fun. I'm actually Canadian, not American, so maybe that's why I dont' fit into this flattering illustration of what modern American wives are like.

-my husband does not cower in the corner hoping for 20 minutes to check the football scores. He watches some sports every night. We usually split TV time between his sports, my reality TV smut, and shows we enjoy together. Currently he is playing the guitar while watching tennis. I don't like watching tennis so I'm doing this. Last time I checked neither one of us has been caught cowering in the corner over how we choose to spend our leisure time.

-my husband and I BOTH go to work 5, sometimes 6 days a week to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition. If you want to split hairs over who's paying for what, I currently make more than him. I don't care, though, though it sounds like you as a husband would if you were making more. There have been times when he worked and not me and vice versa, times when he made more than me and vice versa. We don't rub anything in each other's faces because we love and respect each other and appreciate what we each bring to the table for our family's benefit.

-Cleaning the house? We probably both pitch in equally around the house, and happily. We don't have a yard.

-Our daughter's in gymnastics and our son's in soccer. We both go when we can around our work schedules. I set it up, and my husband specifically requested that these events happen on days of the week when he is available to be there...because, you know, some husbands enjoy and don't begrudge spending time with their children.

But thanks for doing the service of warning all those men out there what a woman like me would put them through. Because MEN are ALWAYS easy to live with, don't you know?

 

[dallasapple]

Haha, okay, I'll compare and contrast too just for fun. I'm actually Canadian, not American, so maybe that's why I dont' fit into this flattering illustration of what modern American wives are like.

-my husband does not cower in the corner hoping for 20 minutes to check the football scores. He watches some sports every night. We usually split TV time between his sports, my reality TV smut, and shows we enjoy together. Currently he is playing the guitar while watching tennis. I don't like watching tennis so I'm doing this. Last time I checked neither one of us has been caught cowering in the corner over how we choose to spend our leisure time.

-my husband and I BOTH go to work 5, sometimes 6 days a week to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition. If you want to split hairs over who's paying for what, I currently make more than him. I don't care, though, though it sounds like you as a husband would if you were making more. There have been times when he worked and not me and vice versa, times when he made more than me and vice versa. We don't rub anything in each other's faces because we love and respect each other and appreciate what we each bring to the table for our family's benefit.

-Cleaning the house? We probably both pitch in equally around the house, and happily. We don't have a yard.

-Our daughter's in gymnastics and our son's in soccer. We both go when we can around our work schedules. I set it up, and my husband specifically requested that these events happen on days of the week when he is available to be there...because, you know, some husbands enjoy and don't begrudge spending time with their children.

But thanks for doing the service of warning all those men out there what a woman like me would put them through. Because MEN are ALWAYS easy to live with, don't you know?

Wow! You sound horrible..I wouldnt even be able to tell the difference between YOU and an American witch oops I mean wife.

But I WILL agree definately..that ALL men are just completely easy going wonderful dreamy fellas to live with..I just dont get how we women cant just love them for the nearly perfect cuddly sweet selfless sacrificial loving snuggle bugs that they ALWAYS are..

In fact men are SO easy!!!If I could I would have FIVE husbands instead of only one!

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

Our daughter's in gymnastics and our son's in soccer. We both go when we can around our work schedules. I set it up, and my husband specifically requested that these events happen on days of the week when he is available to be there...because, you know, some husbands enjoy and don't begrudge spending time with their children

You mean some husbands dont put that on a list of sacrifices he has made for the WIFE?

See thats the thing..some of the things on the "list' that are resented are thigns that PARENTS do for their children..and unless she is "making him" do those things like the 'cowering dog" that he is and she isnt participating in the rearing of the children I dont GET how that ends up being something SHE is supposed to consider some sort of FAVOR he is doing for her..

But having said that..I DO think if a spouse(not just a wife but either spouse) is trying to prevent either one from taking even TWENTY minutes to themselves every day then that would be hellish...

I would HOPE most spouses have more 'empathy" for one another and are happy that the other one has an interest to relax with..And I think a LOT more than 20 minutes too.I mean I KNOW when kids are little and especially if both are working sometimes its hard to have more than 20 minutes..but that isnt a permament thing.

Dallas

 

[Niffer]

Niffer, you seem like a really nice lady, and I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot.

If my post seemed strident, it is only because I'm trying to counteract two misconceptions that I see so common in this forum:

1) Some of the younger folks give the impression that marriage is a non-stop E-ticket to Disneyland. I know you don't mean to do this, but the posts come across this way to me. Now, I agree with you guys that the early years of marriage are awesome, but after that, the relationship changes. True, in many cases it becomes even better, and deeper than it was during the early stages. But many--too many--take a dramatic turn for the worse once the initial feverish romantic years wear off. I want to make sure young men consider this when choosing a mate, and even while choosing rather to get married at all. I believe you and I would both agree that the OP of this particular thread would be better off remaining single unless he changes, rather drastically, his expectations and attitudes towards marriage. If my initial post causes him to pause and re-evaluate, then I feel I've done him a service.

2) Many women closer to my age around here and in the world seem to give the impression that men and masculinity are evil. The only good man, in their view, is one who is cowering in the corner hoping his wife will give him 20 minutes to check the football scores on TV after he goes to work to pay for the house, food, and kids' college tuition, argues with his wife because she accuses him of being too much of a workaholic, cleans the house, does the yard work, takes the daughter to soccer practice and leads the son's boy scout troop. If I can do anything to get the OP to pause and consider that this might be how his wife would act in 20 years, then I feel I've done him a service.

And just FYI, very little of my bitterness comes from my own marriage. I've only been married 17 years. I'm practically a newlywed. But I've been schooled for 43 years of my parents' 57 year marriage. This marriage only survived because my father was a cowering wimp in the presence of his abusive, domineering wife. He was content to let her break up all the rest of the family but hey, they kept the marriage together. I don't know why he put up with it all, but I would not want any man to have to put up with what he's had to deal with. If could do anything to help a young man avoid the pain my father's dealt with, I feel I've done him a service.

Niffer, I know that some marriages are happy and rewarding and fantastic. I hope that 20 years---and even 57--years from now, you and your husband are as happy in your marriage (or even happier) as you seem to be now.

God Bless you and have a great week.

Oh Spec, what a firestorm....

Well, I don't need to say much; the other ladies here pretty much did it all for me.
And I could go into detail about my own few (though hard) first years of marriage, but I think Dallas pretty much said what I would have.

I know of many marriages where the wife is the domineering one - and it is horrible. It comes to the point where the husband is treated like another child instead of a partner.

But I pray regularly that my marriage never comes to that.
The worst part is...it actually could!
I'm very much a go-getter, let's-get-this-done-and-organize-our-entire-lives kinda person.
My husband is like a pond. Nothing stirs him up, he's always calm, collected, thoughtful and logical.

My total opposite.

I've even started threads on here where I've had issues because I seem to have to "do everything" and the stress of it all was killing me.
Of course, in reality, I had a trust issue and would just take on everything willingly, because I couldn't put it in Remi's care. (Which is totally my issue and thankfully getting resolved.)

My point is, if my husband did cower, or not stand up for himself or let me walk all over him, my respect would be gone like that.
I needed a man who was "manly" and was strong enough to hold his own against me.
I could never respect a man who cowered, or who was afraid of me.
Even when I am pushy, or stubborn, he still needs to stay strong. (I don't mean by tromping all over me, but fixing the issue by compromising - not just letting me always have my way.)

I'm just as prone to making mistakes as anyone else, and if I'm being stubborn and my husband knows what to do, he has to be able to stick up for himself and his decisions, and I need to trust him.

arg, I still feel like I'm not explaining it properly, Respect is a huge issue - maybe I'm just tired.

Anyway, thank you for your apology.
I'm sorry too for my snarky remarks, I've always had a problem with my sharp tongue, and when I feel attacked I'm afraid I can get so mean so quickly.
So I'm sorry.

I am glad that you're marriage is a good one, especially after viewing one like your parents. That can be tough to overcome.

Peace,
- Niffer

 

[Speculative]

You are stereotyping all American wives based on your parents' unhealthy marriage. I'm sorry it was like that in your household, but I'm afraid you're not doing anyone a "service" by perpetuating insulting and broad, untrue stereotypes about what marriage and women are like. Attitudes like yours only serve to deepen the divides between the sexes based on intolerance and misunderstanding and do nothing to strengthen relationships and marriage. I totally support the idea of people slowing down, taking time to mature and develop realistic expectations of what marriage may look like before taking the plunge, but you've gone beyond that to make marriage sound like a living hell for men because women are such abusive shrews. You think that is doing men a service? Really?

I think your initial criticism is fair. Believe me, my wife has to put up with a lot of nonsense from me when I erroneously compare her to my mother---really, it's hard not to, it's been drummed into me for 18 years, and if I don't consciously try to avoid it, I slip into that same paradigm.

However, I still think I did the OP a service. Consider:

He has several options for responding to my post. He can:

1) Ignore it, in which case I've done no harm.

2) Listen to me and decide to remain single and avoid the pain my father went through, in which case I've done him a tremendous amount of good.

3) Listen to me and decide he's going to be very, very careful--more careful than he was going to be in both the courtship and marriage process, in which case I've also done a tremendous amount of good.

4) Agree with you guys that I'm just way off base and do whatever he was going to do anyway, in which case I've done him no harm.

I suppose I run the risk of convincing him to remain single and missing out on a wonderful life with a wonderful woman, but I think I run a very low risk of this because he could just as easily miss out on her on his own or marry the wrong woman anyway. And face it--when he falls in love with some girl, the last thing he's going to do is allow some bitter old man on the internet dissuade him.

So yeah, I'm starting to think Canadian chicks are pretty cool, so if I could just give the OP one more piece of advice: if you're looking for a good woman, try Canada

 

[dallasapple]

Im going to agree with Speculative..people including you Speculative..get married even after they KNOW marriage or the perosn you marry or both can be miserable.

So its probably in one ear and out the other no matter WHAT any of us say unless the guy is a sociapath when he "falls" in love.

I think the truth is most marraiges are a mix of good and bad..Hopefully for most its in the end "worth it"..

I guess there is really no other way to find out is there?..Like the lottery ..you're definately NOT going to win if you dont buy a ticket.

And if someone remains single???Which MOST people dont..I dont believe for one second that they arent (most of them anyway) going to have some sort of relationship thats long term..or several longer term relationships FILLED with a lot of the same ups and downs that you are trying to avoid in marraige in the first place.

Take my brother hes 45..childless ...in an 11 year long relationship with his (what I consider common law wife at this point) GF..she also is childess....She is 51...The two of them?Are as miserable or even MORE miserable than the most miserable married people I know..

So being a lifelong BACHELOR including that he only has ever LIVED with a woman for the past 4 years of his life(they maintained SEPERATE houses on the same block for the first 7years thats how they MET they were neighbors)..and having NO children to complicate any seperation ?He STILL didnt "escape" the claws of a "shrew" apparrently..He has NO ONE to blame for why he stays..Could be ?That he is just as much a JERK as she is a shrew and he knows it.He cant blame it on "commitment to marrriage" or "protecting the kids"..But thats only a guess.

Dallas

 

[dreamer82]

So yeah, I'm starting to think Canadian chicks are pretty cool, so if I could just give the OP one more piece of advice: if you're looking for a good woman, try Canada

And just like that, you won me over. LOL.

 

[Martingale]

I have only been married a year, but as you have had no replies I will put in my tuppence worth.

I suspect my wife would be a weenie bit cross if I told her to be more obedient. That said, there is a tacit understanding that the leadership role lies with me, but most definitely in the context of discussion and mutual understanding. I think that is very important.

Respect on the other hand is much less nuanced, it is a necessity. A wife must respect her husband, but not because she has to- I believe it is the husband's responsibility to earn that respect and it is the wife's responsibility to recognise that it has been earned. Again however this must be mutual.

1 Corinthians 7 1-7 is an excellent text and one around which I try to model our marriage.

I think that advice is badly given.

anyone who has to mention the word "obedient" or "leader" or "I'm the boss" to a spouse has no clue what real leadership -- here meaning servant leadership is. it is not something easily put into a single post but takes years or decades of actual married life to grow into. but St. Paul does have the answers, which I suggest a newly married couple should do, even if they don't understand why at first.

what St.Paul talks about is unconditional love and unconditional respect. meaning, there will be days when a husband does not like his wife, does not want to be around her when watching his game on TV, is discouraged because she is sick, or maybe because she's had an affair. St.Paul is not talking about love as an emotion which might not be there and isn't talking about counterfeiting emotions, but of an unconditional duty of the husband to continue to do acts of love (e.g., put down the TV remote if she needs you to listen, forgive her trespasses, put your needs second) for his wife no matter how he feels about her at the moment.

in the same way, a husband will fail: he'll lose a job, gamble away the rent money, or do something that strips away his right to earned respect from everyone -- except his wife. respect due from a wife is unconditional (St.Paul doesn't make any qualifications) and she must show it even if she does not feel it.

that's how a couple works together. over the long haul (if you take vows seriously) and practice what St.Paul unconditional love and unconditional respect you have a long term recipe for success that does not depend on overt assertions of authority.

I think St.Paul talks about love from a man and respect from a women because he's addressing the weaknesses of each sex. A woman loves easier than a man, a man understands respect better. but the obligation to do both, I believe, is equally on both man and woman.

 

[Niffer]

So yeah, I'm starting to think Canadian chicks are pretty cool, so if I could just give the OP one more piece of advice: if you're looking for a good woman, try Canada

LOL!!! Flattery will get you everywhere!!!

 

[dallasapple]

I think St.Paul talks about love from a man and respect from a women because he's addressing the weaknesses of each sex. A woman loves easier than a man, a man understands respect better. but the obligation to do both, I believe, is equally on both man and woman.

I do not agree with that.

unconditional respect. meaning, there will be days when a husband does not like his wife, does not want to be around her when watching his game on TV, is discouraged because she is sick, or maybe because she's had an affair. St.Paul is not talking about love as an emotion which might not be there and isn't talking about counterfeiting emotions, but of an unconditional duty of the husband to continue to do acts of love (e.g., put down the TV remote if she needs you to listen, forgive her trespasses, put your needs second) for his wife no matter how he feels about her at the moment.

in the same way, a husband will fail: he'll lose a job, gamble away the rent money, or do something that strips away his right to earned respect from everyone -- except his wife. respect due from a wife is unconditional (St.Paul doesn't make any qualifications) and she must show it even if she does not feel it.

There is absolutley NO difference between that being a loving act..and a respectful act..Its is NO easier to love than it is to respect or vice versa in an intimate relationship..Trust me..Im a woman and "love" does NOT come easy during times of stress or wrong doing and hurts against me.And love and respect are blurred into all the same thing as in ACTS.

The man putting down the remote control to listen to his wife could just as well be called and act of "respect" as it could be called "love"..and since no FEELINGS are allowed to be considered so you couldnt even ask the man of what feeling he did that act..then I choose to call that a respectful act not loving..Oh wait its not an unloving act so it could be either one now couldnt it?Thats my point..

Dallas

 

[Romanseight2005]

I think that advice is badly given.

anyone who has to mention the word "obedient" or "leader" or "I'm the boss" to a spouse has no clue what real leadership -- here meaning servant leadership is. it is not something easily put into a single post but takes years or decades of actual married life to grow into. but St. Paul does have the answers, which I suggest a newly married couple should do, even if they don't understand why at first.

what St.Paul talks about is unconditional love and unconditional respect. meaning, there will be days when a husband does not like his wife, does not want to be around her when watching his game on TV, is discouraged because she is sick, or maybe because she's had an affair. St.Paul is not talking about love as an emotion which might not be there and isn't talking about counterfeiting emotions, but of an unconditional duty of the husband to continue to do acts of love (e.g., put down the TV remote if she needs you to listen, forgive her trespasses, put your needs second) for his wife no matter how he feels about her at the moment.

in the same way, a husband will fail: he'll lose a job, gamble away the rent money, or do something that strips away his right to earned respect from everyone -- except his wife. respect due from a wife is unconditional (St.Paul doesn't make any qualifications) and she must show it even if she does not feel it.

that's how a couple works together. over the long haul (if you take vows seriously) and practice what St.Paul unconditional love and unconditional respect you have a long term recipe for success that does not depend on overt assertions of authority.

I think St.Paul talks about love from a man and respect from a women because he's addressing the weaknesses of each sex. A woman loves easier than a man, a man understands respect better. but the obligation to do both, I believe, is equally on both man and woman.

I agree with the first part of your post, but there are a couple of things you said, that I think are not quite right.

First of all, there is a huge difference between having days of feeling unloving, etc. and having a long term attitude of it. Some people simply aren't worthy of any more than the most basic level of respect. It's not like love, in that you really can love your enemy. You can love a spoiled child who spits on you. However, respect has to do with admiration. You can't admire someone who doesn't exhibit admirable qualities.

Now, the part about men understanding respect better, and women understanding love easier, is pure myth. Men have a history of blatant disrespect towards women. (I am talking history) So, men don't naturally respect women. Nor, do women naturally love everyone. Think about it, do you honestly respect every President that's ever been elected? You may respect his position, but do you respect the person?

 

[Martingale]

I agree with the first part of your post, but there are a couple of things you said, that I think are not quite right.

First of all, there is a huge difference between having days of feeling unloving, etc. and having a long term attitude of it. Some people simply aren't worthy of any more than the most basic level of respect. It's not like love, in that you really can love your enemy. You can love a spoiled child who spits on you. However, respect has to do with admiration. You can't admire someone who doesn't exhibit admirable qualities.

Now, the part about men understanding respect better, and women understanding love easier, is pure myth. Men have a history of blatant disrespect towards women. (I am talking history) So, men don't naturally respect women. Nor, do women naturally love everyone. Think about it, do you honestly respect every President that's ever been elected? You may respect his position, but do you respect the person?

In Ephesians, St. Paul is talking about duties owned by married persons to each other, not about what is owed or due from outsiders, so my lack of respect to a president is not relevant.

if one takes the marriage vows seriously (as an Anglo-Catholic, I believe that the union is a outward manifestation of inward Grace, so its very serious). unless there's a different version of Ephesians than the one I know, neither love nor respect is conditional on anything.

love means acts of love, respect means acts of respect, whether or not the man is respectable or the woman lovable at that particular moment. we're not talking about feelings. Look at it this way, character is often thought of as a matter of habit, and the every day tests of love and respect are just way of character building for the real tests of a marriage, and rest assured, they will come.

I stand by my interpretation of St. Paul, he's speaking to the relative weakness of each sex. Men must be reminded to love, women must be reminded to respect.

 

[dallasapple]

love means acts of love, respect means acts of respect,

In an intimate relationship such as marriage..those ACTS can not be distinguised from one another.

The "acts" themselves with the emotion not present..can "appear" both lovign and respectful.

The act you described the man doing in your example you called a "loving act"..Why?If there is no emotion behind it especially that same act could be just as easily labled a "respectful " act..You can not tell the two apart..

Dallas