How important is respect and obedience in a wife?

[Niffer]

I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for, but if he's looking for the truth, it's right here: American women don't do the whole "submission" thing. In almost all American marriages, the wife is the final authority. That's the fact. I don't care what people say--this is the way things are. I don't care if the couple are Calvinists, Arminians, Conservatives, Liberals, Pagans or atheists--this is just the way things are and you can quote Ephesians 5 until you're blue in the face and it ain't gonna change a thing.

The question is: what are you gonna do about it? There are several options:

1) You can remain single. As a matter of fact I recommend this course of action for the OP in his current state. I guarantee extreme disappointment to anyone who thinks they are going to find an "obedient" wife.

2) Look for this mythical "submissive" woman and marry her if/when you find her. And when you do, will you introduce me to her? I've never met a woman anywhere in real life or on line who in any way ceded any authority to her husband. The best you can see is a kind of mutual cooperation, but believe me, when there is a disagreement, the wife will get her way.

3) Realize the truth and decide to live with it. Marry the best woman you can find and realize she is every bit as fallible as you are and this is one of those things in life you're just going to have to deal with. Have a kid or two. Being a father is a heck of a lot more fun and rewarding than being a husband. And get a dog. Then you'll at least be getting some respect and obedience from somewhere

I feel like this post could've been good, but it went downhill so fast.

I am sorry that you've never met a woman who practices Christian submission to her husband - of course, perhaps it's your definition of "submission" thats the problem, and not women.

And your whole point 3 is unbelievably offensive.
Not all men need a dog to feel respected, and some actually do enjoy being married.
If you'd like to start a thread about your own personal complaints about your marriage, please feel free to do so - but this thread isn't about you, so don't try to make it.

- Niff

 

[dallasapple]

I feel like this post could've been good, but it went downhill so fast.

I am sorry that you've never met a woman who practices Christian submission to her husband - of course, perhaps it's your definition of "submission" thats the problem, and not women.

And your whole point 3 is unbelievably offensive.
Not all men need a dog to feel respected, and some actually do enjoy being married.
If you'd like to start a thread about your own personal complaints about your marriage, please feel free to do so - but this thread isn't about you, so don't try to make it.

- Niff

I agree..and I would also like to point out this seems to make the woman appear to be living with some sort of "poor fella" thats just trying really hard and all he wants "little respect" and someone to have "fun with" and she is just a dominating ruler and that hes the one whos left "extremely dissapointed"..while she is happy and content to be his "final authority"..

Well I think the proof is in the pudding..Its pretty apparrent that women aren't all to happy with the men in marriage either..Sounds like they are dissapointed enough to be filing for divorces in droves.

Wouldnt you think it woud be the other way around if it was all men dissapointed and dissolusioned ?Maybe its becasue some men do beleive foolishy and expect that his wife should resemble the same kind of relationship that he has with his dog.Once she figures that out..she rejects that notion..and possibly ups and leaves him for good.

Dallas

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Wow.

I love my husband. That is all. Carry on.

 

[dallasapple]

Wow.

I love my husband. That is all. Carry on.

Oh you mean you're not your husbands Poodle?Does he allow you to go for a walk without a leash?What? You have your own doggie door and you can come and go as you please???

YOU LUCKY DOG !!!!

 

[dallasapple]

I have only been married a year, but as you have had no replies I will put in my tuppence worth.

I suspect my wife would be a weenie bit cross if I told her to be more obedient. That said, there is a tacit understanding that the leadership role lies with me, but most definitely in the context of discussion and mutual understanding. I think that is very important.

Respect on the other hand is much less nuanced, it is a necessity. A wife must respect her husband, but not because she has to- I believe it is the husband's responsibility to earn that respect and it is the wife's responsibility to recognise that it has been earned. Again however this must be mutual.

1 Corinthians 7 1-7 is an excellent text and one around which I try to model our marriage.

This is a very interesting post and quite frankly refreshing.That you are saying her respect is on the condition that you are worthy of it..as in its warranted or "earned'.If she doesnt recognize its been earned and show it then its her wrong..her bad ..her failing.

There are quite a few men out there that would disagree with you ..they say she has to respect him no matter WHAT he does..or doesnt do.And not only that he isnt required to respect her not in the same way at least he is required to "love" her..

When I try to argue in marragie there is NO differnce to me..becaue you can NOT be 'disrespectful" and loving at the same time..I dont get a clear answer as to how can you explain that.

But the idea that a woman has to respect a man who is clearly not acting in a manner that anyone else would respect not only is completely unrealisitc... but even if she said the words she would be lying.

Respecting someone IMHO as it pertains to marraige is far more than "minding your manners'..You can maintain a "respectful tone" and abstain from using "disrespectful languauge" and still have utterly "no respect" for him..

Dallas

 

[citizenthom]

Respect is no more conditional for a wife than love is for a husband. That does not mean that a husband should not strive to be respectable any more than it means a wife need not strive to be lovable. It just means the striving--and/or success--doesn't bear on the duty.

 

[dallasapple]

Respect is no more conditional for a wife than love is for a husband. That does not mean that a husband should not strive to be respectable any more than it means a wife need not strive to be lovable. It just means the striving--and/or success--doesn't bear on the duty.

If you go with respect as in a real FEELING.. ie.I "feel respect" for you ..

You either have respect for someone or you dont.As far as what it is you do or DONT respect about them..

So people can dream on all they want that a wife will or even CAN respect unconditionally ...she can be "respectful" no doubt..that doesnt mean she "respects" you anymore than she does a serial killer.

If you want her to really respect you outside of the common courtesy she would afford a rank stranger on the street? You better believe you have to earn it.

Sorry but thats the case for most women I've ever met as it should be.

If all you want is the "appearence" of respect?I agree ..you dont have to earn "surface" respect with no depth to it just like as I said neither does Joe Blow walking down the street..

Not feeling or posessing real respect for someone who has done nothing to earn it or who has in fact demonstrated they arent worthy of it is not a sin.

Dallas

 

[citizenthom]

If you go with respect as in a real FEELING.. ie.I "feel respect" for you ..

The Bible doesn't speak of "respect" as a feeling, but as an action (same with love, too). You can and should control your actions no matter how you "feel."

 

[dallasapple]

The Bible doesn't speak of "respect" as a feeling, but as an action (same with love, too). You can and should control your actions no matter how you "feel."

O>K...then if you are disrespected by your wife you shouldnt have any "feelings" about that it should be all about and limited to "actions" in a non feeling way.

So no one should EVER say I "feel" disrespected..if you shouldnt say I "feel" respect for you .

Dallas

 

[Niffer]

Hey, I agree about the importance of respect, especially when concerning our husbands.
From what I understand, men need to feel respected and admired by their wives, just like women need to feel emotional intimacy and that they are desired by their husbands.

I've seen what happens when a husband doesn't feel respected.
When Remi was laid off and we were going through tough times, he felt that he wasn't providing like a man should for his family, and that I was losing respect for him.

This wasn't true, but it did some real emotional damage in him.

My beef isn't with men needing to feel respected, they're wired that way.
It was the comparison that women need to act like dogs to fulfilll that desire in their husbands...THAT is what ticked me off.

Just to clarify.

- Niff

 

[dallasapple]

And also on the respect isnt a feeling?..Yes it is for me..its kin to a feeling of inspiration/pride in humanity in general..and if its my husband pride in him..kin to a "feeling" of admiration and a snippet of adoration when I feel that respect.I talked to a friend and she siad it was an "humble' feeling as well and I can see that too.

BUT if all it is ..is "actions" not feelings..then there should be NO issue as long as Im "resepctful" when I say it..to say to my husband I "feel no respect for you "..as long as my actions appear respectful it shouldnt matter to him if my feelings are completely contradicting that..

And if that hurts HIS feelings?..Oh well feelings arent the point.

Dallas

 

[Romanseight2005]

Hey, I agree about the importance of respect, especially when concerning our husbands.
From what I understand, men need to feel respected and admired by their wives, just like women need to feel emotional intimacy and that they are desired by their husbands.

I've seen what happens when a husband doesn't feel respected.
When Remi was laid off and we were going through tough times, he felt that he wasn't providing like a man should for his family, and that I was losing respect for him.

This wasn't true, but it did some real emotional damage in him.

My beef isn't with men needing to feel respected, they're wired that way.
It was the comparison that women need to act like dogs to fulfilll that desire in their husbands...THAT is what ticked me off.

Just to clarify.

- Niff

Niffer, you said something that jumped out at me. What you described in your example, sounded more like your husband's need to feel worthy of respect, than, having anything at all to do with your respect of him. I am not saying that he doesn't want your respect, I am sure he does. But your example really didn't have anything to do with your actions, or even your attitude. Instead, it was about his ideas of what is respectable, and his feelings of not measuring up to that standard.

 

[dallasapple]

Hey, I agree about the importance of respect, especially when concerning our husbands.
From what I understand, men need to feel respected and admired by their wives, just like women need to feel emotional intimacy and that they are desired by their husbands.

I've seen what happens when a husband doesn't feel respected.
When Remi was laid off and we were going through tough times, he felt that he wasn't providing like a man should for his family, and that I was losing respect for him.

This wasn't true, but it did some real emotional damage in him.

My beef isn't with men needing to feel respected, they're wired that way.
It was the comparison that women need to act like dogs to fulfilll that desire in their husbands...THAT is what ticked me off.

Just to clarify.

- Niff

My beef isnt that men need to feel respected either..I need to feel the same thing.My issue is with the not having to "earn it"..which I agree only to the extent of common respect you would afford a rank stranger..But beyond that a "deeper " respect or respecting him no matter if he not just hasnt earned it..but has done something or is acting in a manner you do NOT respect ..as in you have no "feeling " of respect for that ..that its suggested by people including Tom up above that feeling resepct for your husband isnt what the Bible is referring to ..its only actions..

So I dont get for 1 the double standard..If the wife doesnt feel respect and thats not considered..she must still "show respect" or "act like' she respects him regardless..then why is the respect itself all about his FEELINGS if the resect she shows does not need to be or have to come from a genuine feeling of resepct?

Also I dont want what Im saying to get confused that Im saying she should be DISRESPECTFUL...Im saying you can not expect that she has RESPECT for you no matter what..that you do not have to earn her resepct.Because the kind of resepct Im talking about DOES involve her feeling it..not just acting "cordial" like I said she would show to a stranger who she doesnt even know.

Does that make sense?

Dallas

 

[Speculative]

I feel like this post could've been good, but it went downhill so fast.

I am sorry that you've never met a woman who practices Christian submission to her husband - of course, perhaps it's your definition of "submission" thats the problem, and not women.

And your whole point 3 is unbelievably offensive.
Not all men need a dog to feel respected, and some actually do enjoy being married.
If you'd like to start a thread about your own personal complaints about your marriage, please feel free to do so - but this thread isn't about you, so don't try to make it.

- Niff

Well, guess what? This thread isn't about you either. I was talking to the OP--not you. If you are offended by the truth--that's your problem. Grow up and deal with it. You're not the forum princess, and I have every right to give the OP my perspective. Nothing about my previous post is offensive to anyone who is not profoundly neurotic, unless you don't understand that the icon meant that I was joking about the dog.

 

[chris4243]

I don't think the marriage will get very far if the wife doesn't respect her husband, nor for that matter if the husband does not respect his wife. I think demanding total obedience is probably going to be the husband not respecting his wife, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Niffer]

Well, guess what? This thread isn't about you either. I was talking to the OP--not you. If you are offended by the truth--that's your problem. Grow up and deal with it. You're not the forum princess, and I have every right to give the OP my perspective. Nothing about my previous post is offensive to anyone who is not profoundly neurotic, unless you don't understand that the icon meant that I was joking about the dog.

There was no truth there to get offended to.
Just a very bitter married man making blanket statements.

 

[Speculative]

There was no truth there to get offended to.

I remember when I was 24. I thought I knew everything, too.

 

[chris4243]

Obedience is a poor term to use for submission because its not well understood. Not because it is incorrect per se.

Obedience as understood by most hearers would be an unquestioningly following a leader in an almost military format. You know how in the military, if the CO says "Jump" you respond "How high?" Thats not how a marriage works.

Submission on the other hand biblically means a lot that the term obedience doesn't convey.

1. Submission is done willingly without blackmail, complustion, threat of force etc. This one is very important for any guy getting married. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO MAKE YOUR WIFE SUBMIT. Submission is willing, she does it because she belives it for the best or belives that God has told her to submit to her husband. Not because her husband says "Submit to me".

2. Submission is not unquestioning either. She has every right to question why you want her to do something and what your motives are. And you owe her a truthful and complete answer. In fact you owe her a truthful and complete answer to pretty much any question she has. This is not a just do it, cause I'm da boss. type of relationship. Also obviously if you ask her to do something sinful or self-harmful her duty is to God above you to say "No".

3. Submission is one equal person choosing to obey another equal person because they belive that it is there role to submit. I don't know about protestant churchs but in Lutheran churchs we submit to our pastors. A pastor doesn't compel or threaten or blackmail someone to get something done, he simpily asks the person to do it, and most good Lutherans would see it as their job then to do that to the best of their ability. Again this isn't an unquestioning obedience, a person may say to his/her pastor that they don't belive they have the necessary skills or time available etc to do it. But we don't outright resist doing something the pastor asks us to. And a pastor doesn't come beat us over the head or order us to submit either.

Remember we are called to "love our wives as Christ loved the church." Though we are not Jesus and therefore imperfect its best to gauge your family dynamic based on the relationship Jesus had with his diciples. At no point in the bible did you see Jesus threatening or ordering his diciples to submit. When they submitted they did it of their own free will.

Also whats very important is that Jesus only asked them to do things and only did things with their best interests in mind. Jesus wasn't concerned about himself or his best interests, he was concerned about their best interests.

When looking for a wife, I think its important to find a good balance of a woman who can be submissive and allow you to lead, but also a woman with a spine. You don't want a power hungry wife that has to be in charge of everything that would be tough to live with.

But on the other hand you don't want a spineless wife who just blindly goes with whatever you say without question. If our spouses are suppose to help us and encourage us in our faith, you want a wife who has a spine enough to say "Hey I think you are wrong." Because you are human you need someone with the spine to call you out. Not telling someone when you think they are doing something wrong is neither love nor respect.

Very good points all around

 

[Niffer]

I remember when I was 24. I thought I knew everything, too.

LOL! ....wow.....
Hey, I was just pointing out your blanket statments - at least I haven't reduced to calling you names.
Maybe you'll feel better if you go play with your dog.

..suddenly your old post has been edited! ...interesting.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I don't think the marriage will get very far if the wife doesn't respect her husband, nor for that matter if the husband does not respect his wife. I think demanding total obedience is probably going to be the husband not respecting his wife, but that's just my opinion.

You brought up a very good point. If she is expected to unequivocally obey him, no questions asked, then is he respecting her heart, opinions, ideas, etc.