How important is respect and obedience in a wife?

[Created2Write]

As a wife who believes in submission, let me tell you this: firstly, make sure the woman you marry believes in submission, or learn to do without it. Secondly, your wife is not always going to submit to you, nor should she. There will be times when it will be best if you submit. There will be times that you will realize later, you should have listened to her instead of doing your own thing. However, there will also be times when she will realize she was being stubborn too, and should have submitted.

As Luther said, you are not perfect, so don't expect a perfect wife either. And, honestly, you shouldn't be so concerned on whether or not your wife will listen to you when you get married; you should be worried about whether or not you will be a Godly husband. Study Ephesians 5. Study the way Christ lived, and apply that to your marriage. If you learn to be a Godly husband, it will spur an almost automatic response in your wife to submit. You will both drop the ball at times, but learn to be selfless and pick it back up, even if she isn't submitting, keep loving her, and God will bless you for doing your part.

You can't force a woman to submit anymore than you can force a man to love.

 

[Gabe7]

As a wife who believes in submission, let me tell you this: firstly, make sure the woman you marry believes in submission, or learn to do without it. Secondly, your wife is not always going to submit to you, nor should she. There will be times when it will be best if you submit. There will be times that you will realize later, you should have listened to her instead of doing your own thing. However, there will also be times when she will realize she was being stubborn too, and should have submitted.

As Luther said, you are not perfect, so don't expect a perfect wife either. And, honestly, you shouldn't be so concerned on whether or not your wife will listen to you when you get married; you should be worried about whether or not you will be a Godly husband. Study Ephesians 5. Study the way Christ lived, and apply that to your marriage. If you learn to be a Godly husband, it will spur an almost automatic response in your wife to submit. You will both drop the ball at times, but learn to be selfless and pick it back up, even if she isn't submitting, keep loving her, and God will bless you for doing your part.

You can't force a woman to submit anymore than you can force a man to love.

Wanna bet? God forces people into doing things all the time. He puts so much on their shoulders that it drives them to their knees in humility. Or their hearts grow hard and they become jaded. Or both.

 

[Luther073082]

Wanna bet? God forces people into doing things all the time. He puts so much on their shoulders that it drives them to their knees in humility. Or their hearts grow hard and they become jaded. Or both.

I belive she said YOU can't force a woman to submit.

You my friend are not God.

I think her point still stands, being so pre-occupied with if your wife is going to submit or be "obedient" and not concerned enough about your role in the marriage is going to cause a lot of problems which will make her even less likely to submit.

Sin begets sin. If you go up to a guy and start insulting his wife and family thats a sin. But doing that is going to make him more likely to sin and punch your lights out. That doesn't make either one of you right, but there is a cause and effect. The man in question would not have hit you if you had not first insulted his wife and family.

In the case of marriage its as simple as this. You have to focus entirely on if you are doing what you are commanded by God to do and not focus on what your wife is commanded by God to do. Focusing on what she's doing and ignoring what you are doing is going to make her less likely to be submissive and then the entire marriage breaks down entirely.

Also another thing about "forcing a woman to submit" thats not how you are suppose to lead. Remember leadership in a marriage is suppose to look like Christ and the Church. Christ never forced any of his diciples to submit. No where in scripture will you find Jesus making threats or using any sort of force to get the diciples to submit to him.

 

[dreamer82]

I belive she said YOU can't force a woman to submit.

You my friend are not God.

I think her point still stands, being so pre-occupied with if your wife is going to submit or be "obedient" and not concerned enough about your role in the marriage is going to cause a lot of problems which will make her even less likely to submit.

Sin begets sin. If you go up to a guy and start insulting his wife and family thats a sin. But doing that is going to make him more likely to sin and punch your lights out. That doesn't make either one of you right, but there is a cause and effect. The man in question would not have hit you if you had not first insulted his wife and family.

In the case of marriage its as simple as this. You have to focus entirely on if you are doing what you are commanded by God to do and not focus on what your wife is commanded by God to do. Focusing on what she's doing and ignoring what you are doing is going to make her less likely to be submissive and then the entire marriage breaks down entirely.

Also another thing about "forcing a woman to submit" thats not how you are suppose to lead. Remember leadership in a marriage is suppose to look like Christ and the Church. Christ never forced any of his diciples to submit. No where in scripture will you find Jesus making threats or using any sort of force to get the diciples to submit to him.

Totally agree. You cannot force your wife to submit nor should you even think about trying it! That will blow up in your face! Christ led his disciples with completely self-sacrificial love. He got down on his knees and washed their feet!! How did He love His church? He died for us!...whether we are grateful and accepting of His love or not! Instead of spending so much time and energy trying to figure out what your wife should be doing, spend that time and energy figuring out what you should be doing...and that would be loving your wife self-sacrificially...putting her first.

Also, I disagree with your idea that God "forces" people to do things. The Holy Spirit can convict us of when we're wrong and help guide us towards what's right, and God can use the natural consequences of our actions to make us hopefully too uncomfortable to want to continue down a destructive path, but that's not "forcing." We still have free will and can choose how to respond to God's guidance.

 

[Gabe7]

If women are so disinclined to submit to a husband's authority then why would a guy want to get married unless he has to? One of my friends says getting married to an American woman is the stupidest thing a guy can do because its like she instantly loses respect for him. I argued that Christian women shouldn't be like that and he laughed at me.

 

[Luther073082]

If women are so disinclined to submit to a husband's authority then why would a guy want to get married unless he has to? One of my friends says getting married to an American woman is the stupidest thing a guy can do because its like she instantly loses respect for him. I argued that Christian women shouldn't be like that and he laughed at me.

You make it sound as if the point of a man getting married is having a woman that he can tell what to do. I'm very concerned about your understanding of leadership and submission. Because they are not in line with biblical teachings of leadership and submission.

 

[dreamer82]

No kidding! You make it sound, Gabe, like a man should only want to get married if he has a woman who will always submit to his authority. That is your only focus. Again, your focus is on the wrong spouse. You're the man right? So worry about YOUR role and YOUR responsibilities as a Christian husband. If you are looking for a woman you can assert your self-imposed authority over carte blanche I'm sure you'll find one somewhere, whether or not that's in America is completely beside the point, but looking forward to getting married so you can have this dynamic where you're the boss because you're the man (to say nothing of what responsibilities that entails on your part) and whatever you says goes is not the kind of marriage the Bible is actually describing. You don't seem to understand the husband's role in a marriage. Self-sacrificial love does not imply a husband stomping around expecting to have his own way all the time because he is the man and therefore his woman must submit to him. In a way it's the complete opposite. That's the beauty of Christ's example of leadership in relationship to His church. It's about getting down on your knees and washing her feet (metaphorically) out of humble love. It's about dying to self to serve the other. That's what the husband's responsibility is. If that doesn't sound like something you want to get involved with then by all means don't bother. If marriage doesn't sound particularly appealing to you because you don't like the women around you and don't think they will live up to your self-serving expectations, then why pressure yourself to get married? Maybe the issue doesn't lie with all American women as you seem to think, but in your interpretation and understanding of Scripture when it comes to marriage. Your posts make me think of that JFK quote..."Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country,"....only in your case I'd suggest you stop asking what a wife can do for you but what you can do for your wife.

 

[Gabe7]

You make it sound as if the point of a man getting married is having a woman that he can tell what to do. I'm very concerned about your understanding of leadership and submission. Because they are not in line with biblical teachings of leadership and submission.

If a divided house cannot stand then why would I intentionally build a divided house if I can avoid it? It seems like many married people here have no understanding of what makes a solid marriage. Is it any wonder divorce among Christians is so high? I'm concerned many people here think the Bible suggests its okay for a wife to directly or indirectly disrespect her husband when that is simply overwhelmingly not the case. The argument, 'But he should...' doesn't diminish the instruction to wives on what they should and should not do. Just as it does not hold water if a man shirks his responsibilities and blames his wife for it.

 

[Luther073082]

If a divided house cannot stand then why would I intentionally build a divided house if I can avoid it? It seems like many married people here have no understanding of what makes a solid marriage.

I guarentee you that all of the people here have far more idea of what makes for a solid marriage then you do as we have all been married for longer then you have. You've not yet been married one day but you presume to tell us what makes for a solid marriage? Thats kinda insulting, and more then that its a statement loaded with far too much pride.

Is it any wonder divorce among Christians is so high? I'm concerned many people here think the Bible suggests its okay for a wife to directly or indirectly disrespect her husband when that is simply overwhelmingly not the case.

We arn't talking about disrespecting her husband, no one ever said that it was ok for a wife to disrespect her husband.

What we did say is that its not ok for you to concern yourself as to if she's submitting to you and "obeying" you when you need to worry about if you are loving her like Christ loved the church. Loving a person, a person who is a sinner, like Christ loved the church is not an easy task, and if you really think its that easy then you are either ignorant or you downplay the love of Christ.

So far you've not even talked about your role but are overly concerned as to if your wife will obey you or not. We are telling you to just concentrate on what you are doing because you can't make a person submit to you. You can't make her submit any more then she can make you love her like Christ loved the church.

Its not her job to tell you that you are not loving her like Christ loved the church, nor is it your job to tell her that she's not submitting.

What we are also telling you is this. If you marry well, then submission will happen as naturally as you loving her will happen.

The argument, 'But he should...' doesn't diminish the instruction to wives on what they should and should not do.

No one is saying it does. However we are saying that its not your job to try to make your wife submit.

Just as it does not hold water if a man shirks his responsibilities and blames his wife for it.

The problem is that you as a man have not asked a single question at all or made a single comment on what your responsibilities are as a Christian husband. Your entire overriding concern has been about if your wife is going to submit and obey you. You make it sound very much like your intention in marrying is to get yourself a slave, not a wife.

And please try to respect more what we are trying to tell you. Marriage is not easy, and there are going to be conflicts and difficulties in any marriage. But if you judge from the fact that we have conflicts with our spouses as a sign of weakness in our marriage then you are entirely mistaken. And Marriage is not easy because anything that is ever worth anything isn't easy.

But comming in here as a single and making the allegation that we have no idea what it takes to make a solid marriage. Thats just down right insulting and its a statement filled with far too much pride.

It would be like me taking a plane somewhere and while exiting the plane after arriving questioning the pilots' ability to fly the plane correctly just because I've played Microsoft Flight Simulator.

 

[Niffer]

Honestly Gabe, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
If you believe that your largest worry as a Christian husband is to make sure your wife submits t you - you will never have a happy marriage.
Submitting IS part of marriage, just like compromise is.
But that should never be your focus.

The focus in Christian marriage is to have Christ center - think of the fruits of the spirit.
If you have Christ as the center of your life, you should bare the fruits of the spirit, right? Just like in marriage, if you keep Christ and His teachings centered in your marriage, you'll find that submission works itself out, just like respect, understanding, love and mercy.

No one is perfect, and we all can be as stubborn as mules sometimes.
You need to understand compromising before you can understand submission, because 99% of the time in marriage when you disagree with each other, it's compromise that solves the issue, not the man "putting his foot down."

If thats you're first reaction, you may not be married long, I'm afraid.

I believe in submission, but I can count on one hand the number of times Remi has "put his foot down" - it is very, very rare. So when he does it, I know that the issue is VERY important to him, so submission isn't that difficult, even if I do disagree.

I just think you need to grow a bit more before considering marriage - this thread really shows that, in my opinion.

best of luck,
- Niffer

 

[Luther073082]

Honestly Gabe, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
If you believe that your largest worry as a Christian husband is to make sure your wife submits t you - you will never have a happy marriage.
Submitting IS part of marriage, just like compromise is.
But that should never be your focus.

The focus in Christian marriage is to have Christ center - think of the fruits of the spirit.
If you have Christ as the center of your life, you should bare the fruits of the spirit, right? Just like in marriage, if you keep Christ and His teachings centered in your marriage, you'll find that submission works itself out, just like respect, understanding, love and mercy.

No one is perfect, and we all can be as stubborn as mules sometimes.
You need to understand compromising before you can understand submission, because 99% of the time in marriage when you disagree with each other, it's compromise that solves the issue, not the man "putting his foot down."

If thats you're first reaction, you may not be married long, I'm afraid.

I believe in submission, but I can count on one hand the number of times Remi has "put his foot down" - it is very, very rare. So when he does it, I know that the issue is VERY important to him, so submission isn't that difficult, even if I do disagree.

I just think you need to grow a bit more before considering marriage - this thread really shows that, in my opinion.

best of luck,
- Niffer

I agree

 

[BondiHarry]

I've noticed in the Bible that these things are emphasized a lot. Sometimes in church the pastor talks about them and the men tend to stand up straighter while the women roll their eyes. What is the reality in marriage of how important these things are? To the wife? To the husband?

Perhaps we should first answer how important is respect and obedience to Jesus. Women may roll their eyes but the passage which brings this up says in full "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything" (Ephesians 5:22-23). If a woman's attitude is one of 'yeah sure, I'll submit to my husband ... right after hell freezes over' then that is the same attitude she has for Jesus; the two cannot be separated.

And of course the husband is likewise commanded to love his wife as Christ loved the church. A man marries a woman to be his wife, to be one flesh with him, not an unpaid maid, cook, lover or caterer to his every whim. The husband who does not treat his wife as he is directed to in the Bible (Christian Conduct > Husband's Duty to His Wife | Charles E. Orr) demonstrates the same lack of obedience to Jesus as the woman who scoffs at submitting to her husband.

"A woman's heart should be so lost in God that a man needs to seek Him in order to find her."

 

[Created2Write]

Wanna bet? God forces people into doing things all the time. He puts so much on their shoulders that it drives them to their knees in humility. Or their hearts grow hard and they become jaded. Or both.

And therein lies the rub. You are not God. You do not have the authority to force your wife to do anything. Why? Because that is not listed ANYWHERE in the Bible as your responsibility. You, as a husband, are commanded to love your wife as Christ loved the church. Jesus didn't force the church to do anything. Jesus died for the church, like husbands are commanded to do if necessary.

Also, I don't agree that God forces people to do anything. I think He influences them, I think He allows things to happen to them that may help them see His will, but I don't think he "forces" it at all. The only time He would force anyone to do anything, is when they die and He sends them to hell, if they are not saved.

 

[Created2Write]

If women are so disinclined to submit to a husband's authority then why would a guy want to get married unless he has to?

Who has said that women are disinclined to it? Sure, not all women believe in submission, but that's why they don't marry a man who does. Plain and simple. If you want a wife who will submit, you marry one who believes in it.

One of my friends says getting married to an American woman is the stupidest thing a guy can do because its like she instantly loses respect for him. I argued that Christian women shouldn't be like that and he laughed at me.

It boils down to who you marry, and who YOU are when you marry. If you do as the Bible says and you love you wife as Christ loves the church, you will likely reap a wife who is willing to submit. If you're a jerk who does nothing but complain about what she does or doesn't do, it will make submission difficult for her.

So, again, if you go into the marriage thinking about what YOU can contribute, you will be much happier than if you go into it thinking about everything you're going to get.

 

[Created2Write]

If a divided house cannot stand then why would I intentionally build a divided house if I can avoid it? It seems like many married people here have no understanding of what makes a solid marriage. Is it any wonder divorce among Christians is so high? I'm concerned many people here think the Bible suggests its okay for a wife to directly or indirectly disrespect her husband when that is simply overwhelmingly not the case.

Who has said this? No one. Wives are commanded, in the Bible, to submit to their husbands. No ifs, ands or buts about it. However, there is another side that you seem to be completely missing, and that is the command given to the husband to LOVE. Your command isn't to rule her, it isn't to force her to submit, and it isn't to boss around. Your command is to love her the way Christ does. Yes, your wife(when you marry) should submit, but it isn't your job to make that happen. Your job is to love her, period.

One thing I'd like to point out: in Eph 5, when it talks about submission, there are absolutely no exceptions. A wife is to submit to her husband, even if he isn't loving her. But the flip side is also true. The husband is to love his wife, even if she doesn't submit.

So really, your focus should be on YOUR commands as a husband, NOT her commands as a wife. You can only change yourself. You can not change anyone else.

The argument, 'But he should...' doesn't diminish the instruction to wives on what they should and should not do. Just as it does not hold water if a man shirks his responsibilities and blames his wife for it.

You're right. However, there are only two things you can do to ensure your wife will submit.

1. Marry a woman who believes in submission.

2. Live out your commands as a husband. Love your wife as Christ does.

You can do nothing else but pray. You can not force submission out of her. She should give it willingly. You loving her will make submission MUCH more natural than if you're always focused on her and her wrongdoings.

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with Niffer.

Honestly Gabe, this is how a Godly marriage should look:

A Christian man falls in love and marries a Christian woman. They both love Christ, and they both want Him at the center of their marriage. They focus on Him and what He asks of them, and as a natural result, the wife submits to her husband, and he loves her. Sure, they'll both slip up and make mistakes, but they come together and re-focus their attention on Christ.

Like Niffer said, submission is component of marriage, but it shouldn't be the focus.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

Taken from Colossians 3:

Instructions for Christian Households

18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

21 Fathers,do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

 

[Speculative]

I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for, but if he's looking for the truth, it's right here: American women don't do the whole "submission" thing. In almost all American marriages, the wife is the final authority. That's the fact. I don't care what people say--this is the way things are. I don't care if the couple are Calvinists, Arminians, Conservatives, Liberals, Pagans or atheists--this is just the way things are and you can quote Ephesians 5 until you're blue in the face and it ain't gonna change a thing.

The question is: what are you gonna do about it? There are several options:

1) You can remain single. As a matter of fact I recommend this course of action for the OP in his current state. I guarantee extreme disappointment to anyone who thinks they are going to find an "obedient" wife.

2) Look for this mythical "submissive" woman and marry her if/when you find her. And when you do, will you introduce me to her? I've never met a woman anywhere in real life or on line who in any way ceded any authority to her husband. The best you can see is a kind of mutual cooperation, but believe me, when there is a disagreement, the wife will get her way.

3) Realize the truth and decide to live with it. Marry the best woman you can find and realize she is every bit as fallible as you are and this is one of those things in life you're just going to have to deal with. Have a kid or two. Being a father is a heck of a lot more fun and rewarding than being a husband. And get a dog. Then you'll at least be getting some respect and obedience from somewhere

 

[Romanseight2005]

Honestly, your focus should be on your own submission to Christ. You are called to submission to other believer's as well. If your focus is tunnel visioned on a hypothetical woman's obedience to you, how likely is it that your heart is on your own obedience to your Father? If you are walking in Christlikeness, and waiting for God to lead you to the right woman, then you and your wife will both be in submission to God's Call on your lives.

I am concerned about how focused you are on HER submission. As long as that's where your focus is, you likely are not ready to be married.

 

[dreamer82]

I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for, but if he's looking for the truth, it's right here: American women don't do the whole "submission" thing. In almost all American marriages, the wife is the final authority. That's the fact. I don't care what people say--this is the way things are. I don't care if the couple are Calvinists, Arminians, Conservatives, Liberals, Pagans or atheists--this is just the way things are and you can quote Ephesians 5 until you're blue in the face and it ain't gonna change a thing.

The question is: what are you gonna do about it? There are several options:

1) You can remain single. As a matter of fact I recommend this course of action for the OP in his current state. I guarantee extreme disappointment to anyone who thinks they are going to find an "obedient" wife.

2) Look for this mythical "submissive" woman and marry her if/when you find her. And when you do, will you introduce me to her? I've never met a woman anywhere in real life or on line who in any way ceded any authority to her husband. The best you can see is a kind of mutual cooperation, but believe me, when there is a disagreement, the wife will get her way.

3) Realize the truth and decide to live with it. Marry the best woman you can find and realize she is every bit as fallible as you are and this is one of those things in life you're just going to have to deal with. Have a kid or two. Being a father is a heck of a lot more fun and rewarding than being a husband. And get a dog. Then you'll at least be getting some respect and obedience from somewhere

I hope you're kidding.