Pre-Trib Only High rapture watch?

[Juan777]

If he says he will come at an hour that you do not expect that should lead both of us in agreement saying no man knows when he will come. So rebuke your first claim that we shouldn't "give in" to these ideas. no one is giving in to anything. WE SHOULD BE WATCHING AND WAITING FOR HIS RETURN SO HE DOESN'T COME UPON US LIKE A THEIF IN THE NIGHT. If you are waiting for certain things to come before he raptures the church you wont be ready for his arrival. If you are watching and waiting always even if he doesn't come today tomorrow or next year, you will always be ready and watching. Think on these things brother. I am not sure what you say these so called false prophets are trying to do. Give the people what exactly? Hope that their savior is at the door? No man knows but the father knows when he will send jesus to call his church to meet in the clouds.

With the reading of some of these verses (ie 1I Thess 2:3), there are people who believe the anti-christ will show up before the rapture. That leads more people to sober up when the antichrist comes on the scene and it's clear that you are in that tribulation time, rather than be sober and expectant all the time as He can return as a thief. When you have clear prophecies being fulfilled in Revelation and you know when Jesus is returning in relationship to them, then He is not coming like a thief. The Rapture is different to the Second Coming in this way.

 

[mndgn.j]

"our being gathered together to him"

There is the rapture and then his actual return on the clouds with the armies of heaven to defeat the antichrist.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

 

[mndgn.j]

With the reading of some of these verses (ie 1I Thess 2:3), there are people who believe the anti-christ will show up before the rapture. That leads more people to sober up when the antichrist comes on the scene and it's clear that you are in that tribulation time, rather than be sober and expectant all the time as He can return as a thief. When you have clear prophecies being fulfilled in Revelation and you know when Jesus is returning in relationship to them, then He is not coming like a thief. The Rapture is different to the Second Coming in this way.

why did you ask me the kind of alien ship I seen?

 

[returntosender]

I pray we all are worthy.

 

[returntosender]

There is the rapture and then his actual return on the clouds with the armies of heaven to defeat the antichrist.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

That's your opinion.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There is the rapture and then his actual return on the clouds with the armies of heaven to defeat the antichrist.
The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

What does this phrase mean?
"our being gathered together to him"

 

[Blade]

yeap just like the OT when all the fake prophets told everyone what they wanted to hear, but the real prophets told everyone what they did not want to hear

OT they were not called "false" because they were wrong all the time. Fact they were spot on many times. They were false because GOD never told them.

Also no one can show post tribulation verse or mid tribulation verse. Yet caught up (Rapture) will happen and man sorry gets no say in when. Our personal view belief in Gods word is not what God will do. Fact we guess we speculate that is not Gods word

 

[Juan777]

why did you ask me the kind of alien ship I seen?

It is because you referenced it in your dream. I asks that type of question partially because I'm skeptical about dreams (you posted this on here for the first time and I don't know you), so I typically ask questions about what you saw or did not see as my way of building credibility into your account and believing what you are saying. It's like a token or signature that the dream is real.

From how you responded, to my query as well as other posts, I believe the dream you had was real and you didn't make it up. Whether it's divinely inspired or not or if it's your subconscious mind playing tricks with you I guess is another issue. My issue is that we can't put dates behind the Rapture. I can list a few recent dates where I genuinely believed the Rapture was going to happen or that I missed the Rapture:

1) Harold Camping's Rapture prediction of October, 2011.
2) Mayan's Doomsday prophecy of December, 2012.
3) The last Pope installed before the end-of-the-world, 2013
4) I got married in 2014 (well I just added that -- I thought it was so out of reality that I got married that Jesus was going to be returning that year for sure!)
5) Blood moons prophecy
6) The 2017 Rapture -- Hurricane Maria and Ike came at opposite sides of the USA, there was a solar eclipse, and I watched all the Left Behind movies on a TV I just purchased in the basement.
There were other online calculators that looked at Bible prophecy and concluded that the Rapture had to occur in 2017 in order for biblical timelines to take effect. I felt I would backslide if the Rapture did not happen in 2017 because I really believed it.
7) Lost interest in looking for the Rapture when it did not happen as expected in 2017. However, there was resurgence of interest in 2020 with the global pandemic and people predicting on youtube that something big was gong to happen in November, 2020.
8) The date I joined this board I believed I had missed the Rapture in June, 2022 sometime. My mother was missing. For 5 minutes I believed I was going to face the Tribulation and Anarchy to follow and crazy CNN reports of people missing. My mother was located in another room of the house. False alarm.

Now, your thread today

I'm sorry if I'm a little Rapture-fatigued, but I'm still looking out for Jesus! I just get weary of date-setting because it creates a hype and it could hurt people if you decide to engage in any risky type of behaviour without regard to long-term consequences because of the moral anarchy that can some with that type of belief system. (ie maybe you'll eat that cheesecake if you won't be here tomorrow anyway, why worry about weight or your health?, etc...)

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sounds to me there this is not the "second coming." Rather it is the 2nd and 3rd coming.
Just does not make sense in so many ways.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I do not know how many "rapture" dreams I have read and viewed. Probably hundreds. Most of them conflict with each other and some have some truly bizarre, totally unscriptural events taking place. Don't put trust in the many, convoluted, and unscriptural dreams and visions of others. Listen to the scripture and the Holy Spirit in your heart.
Those who endure to the end will be saved.

 

[DaveM]

I do not see anywhere in scripture saying Jesus returns and then returns again. I do not see scripture teaching a second and then the third return.

 

[Juan777]

I do not see anywhere in scripture saying Jesus returns and then returns again. I do not see scripture teaching a second and then the third return.

Its something that you have to read into between the lines and infer from the circumstances described of each return. Not everything is spelled out and made in a spoon-fed way and there are jigsaw-puzzle aspects to getting the right interpretation of scripture, in that, scripture interprets itself.

However, to be technical, the Rapture is not a "Return of Jesus". He does not land on the Earth (He "briefly visits" the clouds or upper atmosphere), or effect any movement or change in the Earth and the timing is a "twinkling of an eye", which means He's gone before you are aware He has arrived and at that, everything occurs in a split second.

Saints of all generations in the past are raised from the dead. People who are alive are transformed into their new resurrection bodies (1 Cor 15) and ascend up. One aspect of miracle of this, is not that this happens, but it happens so fast that this resurrection miracle and transformation miracle happens in less than a second. All the left-behind onlooker would see are cars crashing into each other and planes falling from the sky wrecking havoc all over the place and feeling something bizarre just happened as millions of people are gone.

The only way to meet Jesus in this coming you have to have a different body and meet Him in the clouds and leave the planet. It's not a terrestrial coming.

 

[frank sears]

There is only the 2nd coming of Jesus. The very first thing He will do is gather the church in the sky, then various plagues on the Antichrist and his kingdom, then it ends when Jesus appears with the armies of Heaven and defeats the Antichrist. One event, several stages. The pre-trib rapture is absent from the Bible as it was made up by John Darby around 1830. Scripture for a post-trib rapture,Matt 24, 2Thess 2. Rev6. The pre-trib rapture is based on the idea of telling people to reject what they read and believe a lie. Folks wake up, Jesus described a post-trib rapture in Matt 24.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

The Rapture (before the Great Tribulation) is a very American idea. I see little reason to think God will save us from persecution (which is what will happen during the Tribulation), but we will be saved from His wrath. His Wrath is not for us, but we will still be around when the Tribulation comes.

2 Thessalonians 1:5–8 ESV
“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.”

 

[mndgn.j]

I do not see anywhere in scripture saying Jesus returns and then returns again. I do not see scripture teaching a second and then the third return.

He is not returning that's not what the rapture of the church is. He calls up his church to meet him up in the clouds and the united states is destroyed by the nuclear bomb from china I'm assuming.

https://youtube.com/shorts/hEWQHCrCdCc?feature=share

 

[mndgn.j]

The Rapture (before the Great Tribulation) is a very American idea. I see little reason to think God will save us from persecution (which is what will happen during the Tribulation), but we will be saved from His wrath. His Wrath is not for us, but we will still be around when the Tribulation comes.

2 Thessalonians 1:5–8 ESV
“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.”

https://youtube.com/shorts/hEWQHCrCdCc?feature=share

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

https://youtube.com/shorts/hEWQHCrCdCc?feature=share

That's great but it does not address what I said or the verses I quoted.

 

[mndgn.j]

That's great but it does not address what I said or the verses I quoted.

but we will be saved from His wrath. His Wrath is not for us, but we will still be around when the Tribulation comes.

How can we be saved from his wrath literally the US will be destroyed in ww3 by china. And not to mention the majority of born again bible believers live in the USA not sure if you knew that. So how is he gonna spare us from wrath without the rapture?

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

How can we be saved from his wrath literally the US will be destroyed in ww3 by china. And not to mention the majority of born again bible believers live in the USA not sure if you knew that. So how is he gonna spare us from wrath without the rapture?

You believe God is going to raise you up in the sky for 7 years and you are having difficulty believing God can save us from His wrath in the Tribulation?

 

[Juan777]

You believe God is going to raise you up in the sky for 7 years and you are having difficulty believing God can save us from His wrath in the Tribulation?

All Gentile Christians are killed in this persecution though. It says in Revelation 20:4, Rev 13:7,
Rev 16:6, Rev 6:11. If there is no one left alive, and His wrath partially is a vengeance (esp. where water is changed to blood to make the people drink it because this) then who exactly is God saving from His wrath if everyone is dead?

It is logically necessary that the faithful in the Gentile church are Raptured away and are speared from that and His wrath.