God said: Remember the Sabbath day (Ex 20:8) - but from which past event?

[Gary K]

Read Romans 14. The Sabbath is a shadow of things to come. Adam and Eve did not work in the Garden of Eden and no Sabbath was necessary. During the Old Covenant God gave the Sabbath to man to rest from His labors and to remember his God as Adam did prior to the fall. Like I said, now that Christ has died and resurrected, He said, It is finished. The Church no longer lives under a curse, but has been redeemed. She prays and worships every day, seven times per day. What more would continuing the Jewish Sabbath do for her?
Pretty much cannot get more than everyday.

We follow the Apostolic faith and as such we are part of the communion of saints. Christ is one body with many members. It is in obedience to her, the Apostolic Church, that we show our death of self, take up our cross, and follow our Lord

That you have never read the Talmud is obvious. If you had you would not have such a distorted view of the NT.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

That you have never read the Talmud is obvious. If you had you would not have such a distorted view of the NT.

The Talmud is not our rule of life and faith. The Gospel and the Church are. You do not seem to be familiar with Church History, else you would know that we are not obligated to live as Jews, for if we are saved by the law then Christ died for nothing

Galatians 2

16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 But if while we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners; is Christ then the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build up again the things which I have destroyed, I make myself a prevaricator. 19 For I, through the law, am dead to the law, that I may live to God: with Christ I am nailed to the cross. 20 And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered himself for me.

21 I cast not away the grace of God. For if justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain.

I have already posted Romans 14 and have shown its meaning with regard to the Catholic Church

We also have Collosians 2 that specifically mentions the Sabbath, and it forbids you from passing judgement on another man’s servant, yet you persist. You have the New Testament, yet you do not believe. If you won’t believe scripture, neither will you believe one that has risen from the dead.
Keep your Sabbath if you want, no one says that you have to stop, but you have no right to judge another man’s servant. Read the lives of Catholic saints and tell me they are not of God, you have Tersa of Avila, John of the Cross, Theresa of Lisieux, Alphonse Liguori, Francis de Sales, Maximillian Kolbe, Padre Pio, John Bosco. To call them Satanic is to be as the Jews that said Jesus cast out demons by Beelzebub. It’s just something you do not do.

 

[Gary K]

The Talmud is not our rule of life and faith. The Gospel and the Church are. You do not seem to be familiar with Church History, else you would know that we are not obligated to live as Jews, for if we are saved by the law then Christ died for nothing

Galatians 2

16 But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 But if while we seek to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners; is Christ then the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build up again the things which I have destroyed, I make myself a prevaricator. 19 For I, through the law, am dead to the law, that I may live to God: with Christ I am nailed to the cross. 20 And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me. And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered himself for me.

21 I cast not away the grace of God. For if justice be by the law, then Christ died in vain.

I have already posted Romans 14 and have shown its meaning with regard to the Catholic Church

We also have Collosians 2 that specifically mentions the Sabbath, and it forbids you from passing judgement on another man’s servant, yet you persist. You have the New Testament, yet you do not believe. If you won’t believe scripture, neither will you believe one that has risen from the dead.
Keep your Sabbath if you want, no one says that you have to stop, but you have no right to judge another man’s servant. Read the lives of Catholic saints and tell me they are not of God, you have Tersa of Avila, John of the Cross, Theresa of Lisieux, Alphonse Liguori, Francis de Sales, Maximillian Kolbe, Padre Pio, John Bosco. To call them Satanic is to be as the Jews that said Jesus cast out demons by Beelzebub. It’s just something you do not do.

Sorry, but I'm going back to the Talmud. More information is always better than less. I don't read it because I believe it, but because it it allows me to understand the historical context of the NT, its people, and teaching. I also have several books by a Jew who converted to Christianity in the late 1800s. He was born on the day of atonement so his parents had high hopes he would become the Messiah. Thus they raised and educated him to be a rabbi. The main source of his education was the Talmud.

His insights into the conflicts between the Pharisees and Jesus and Paul are eye opening. They give a complete other understanding of the NT writings.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Sorry, but I'm going back to the Talmud. More information is always better than less. I don't read it because I believe it, but because it it allows me to understand the historical context of the NT, its people, and teaching. I also have several books by a Jew who converted to Christianity in the late 1800s. He was born on the day of atonement so his parents had high hopes he would become the Messiah. Thus they raised and educated him to be a rabbi. The main source of his education was the Talmud.

His insights into the conflicts between the Pharisees and Jesus and Paul are eye opening. They give a complete other understanding of the NT writings.

That is your personal taste, but you have not answered the question regarding the judging of another man’s servant

 

[Gary K]

That is your personal taste, but you have not answered the question regarding the judging of another man’s servant

Where have I judged you? If you feel judged that isn't coming from me. I don't judge anyone as I have lived such a crazy self destructive life, and sin is self destructiveness, that I have no right to judge anyone else. You will find apologies coming from me in this forum when I have done that.

If you think I'm judging you by disagreeing with you and pointing out what the Bible actually says are you not doing the same by disagreeing with me and accusing me of being judgmental?

How is having the maximum amount of information available to make good decisions a matter of "taste"? It's a matter of having enough information to make good decisions.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Where have I judged you? If you feel judged that isn't coming from me. I don't judge anyone as I have lived such a crazy self destructive life, and sin is self destructiveness, that I have no right to judge anyone else. You will find apologies coming from me in this forum when I have done that.

If you think I'm judging you by disagreeing with you and pointing out what the Bible actually says are you not doing the same by disagreeing with me and accusing me of being judgmental?

How is having the maximum amount of information available to make good decisions a matter of "taste"? It's a matter of having enough information to make good decisions.

I never said you judged me, you have judged the Lord’s Church and are elevating the Jewish Talmud above her. It’s a simple question, what gives you the right to proclaim what the Bible really says over the Apostles to whom the Holy Spirit was given?

The Talmud wasn’t even written until the third through eighth centuries after the destruction of the Temple. It is not even part of old Covenant Judaism, because the Old Covennant ended with the Resurrection and the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Why choose to read from unbelieving Jewish sources over the Church?

Was she not good enough? Do you judge her apostate and your interpretation of the Bible superior?

Brother, the Bible says to always be ready to give an answer of the reason for the hope that you have. I am only asking yours. Why spend time reading the words of unbelievers over 1st, 2nd and 3rd century Church Fathers?

The Talmud does put many modern day Christians to shame in its discipline in holy living, but they have not Christ. As Isaac asked Abraham, where is the Lamb? The Jews have discarded God’s lamb therefore how can their sins be forgiven?

 

[HIM]

Read Romans 14

Yes read Romans 14 and you will notice the Sabbath is not mentioned. As a matter fact no laws from the book of the Law or from the Ten are in the context of the passage you are thinking. The text is about man's opinions not the Word of God. See verse 1

Rom 14:1 Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.

To even further this fact take note also that he begins his disputation speaking of only eating herbs. You find no such Law with the Pentateuch.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The Sabbath is a shadow of things to come.

Sabbaths not Sabbath. This text speaks of the sabbaths in relation to the festivals not the Sabbath of the Decalogue. The verse starts with the word therefore. Therefore it is connected to what was peviosly stated.

 

[Gary K]

I never said you judged me, you have judged the Lord’s Church and are elevating the Jewish Talmud above her. It’s a simple question, what gives you the right to proclaim what the Bible really says over the Apostles to whom the Holy Spirit was given?

The Talmud wasn’t even written until the third through eighth centuries after the destruction of the Temple. It is not even part of old Covenant Judaism, because the Old Covennant ended with the Resurrection and the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Why choose to read from unbelieving Jewish sources over the Church?

Was she not good enough? Do you judge her apostate and your interpretation of the Bible superior?

Brother, the Bible says to always be ready to give an answer of the reason for the hope that you have. I am only asking yours. Why spend time reading the words of unbelievers over 1st, 2nd and 3rd century Church Fathers?

The Talmud does put many modern day Christians to shame in its discipline in holy living, but they have not Christ. As Isaac asked Abraham, where is the Lamb? The Jews have discarded God’s lamb therefore how can their sins be forgiven?

I have elevated the Talmud above the church? Where do you get that? I said I don't believe it. It does however give much needed context to the NT as what written in it was believed by those who who murdered Jesus. To me understanding what beliefs drove them to killing the Son of God is very important. They were also the Judaizers who went around running Paul down and attempted to kill him several times, and what caused him to murder Christians and persecute the early church. His letters to the Gentile churches were all based upon his fights with them. You find that elevating the Talmud above the church? I'm sorry but you and I part ways on this subject very decidedly.

BTW, why have you never commented on my last post you requested I make on the thread you started?

 

[reddogs]

In Ex 20:8 God said "REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy"
The "Sabbath Commandment" in Ex 20:8-11 is not the "making" of it - rather it is the call to REMEMBER it.. So it was made BEFORE that.

Jesus says the Sabbath was MADE for "mankind". Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"

The Sabbath commandment is part of the TEN Commandments which Deut 5:22 says that God spoke "the Ten Commandments to the people... and He added no more" (Only the TEN were spoken directly to the people)

So this is the only set of commandments spoken directly by God to the people from the mountain , written on stone and kept inside the ark. (not that the TEN are the only commandments in the moral law of God - of course)

But "Remember" the Sabbath - from WHAT past event?

If it is FROM - Gen 2:1-3 when both mankind and Sabbath were made - then it is FOR mankind and was established as such in Gen 2 even before sin.

So then:

Is it from the Ex 16 event?
In Ex 16 God said this -
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord: (KJV)
26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

OR is it from the Gen 2 event?
In Gen 2:1-3 God said this
Gen 2:
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

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QUESTION: ??So in Ex 20:8 when God said "REMEMBER the Sabbath" - which event is He primarily wanting them to REMEMBER?

Does God tell us which event is the focus to be remembered IN THE ACTUAL Commandment - of those two past events?

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. ("Sanctified" it)

hmm vs 11 of Ex 20 points us not to the Ex 16 past event... but rather to the Gen 2:1-3 past event as we can see in its quote of Gen 2.

That answers the question "remember the Sabbath -- from what past event?" IN the actual commandment.

The focus in the Sabbath commandment is not on the manna event of Ex 16... it is on the "making of mankind and of the seventh-day as a sanctified holy day" in Gen 2:1-3.

=================================
Question -- does Christ ALSO link the making of the Sabbath with the making of mankind (Gen 2) - and show the relationship that they have two each other?


Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for man (mankind) and not man (mankind) MADE for the Sabbath" - as Christ said. Where once again we see the "making" of the Sabbath and the "making" of mankind associated together. -- just as we do in Gen 2. No wonder the Sabbath commandment itself point to that Gen 2 "making" event.

BTW in Matt 4 Jesus points back to the book of Deuteronomy saying "MAN shall not live by bread alone - but by every word that comes from the mouth of God". Once again that same term for MAN - is - MANKIND.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Clearly from Creation when He 'made' it for man.

 

[guevaraj]

Clearly from Creation when He 'made' it for man.

Brother, that first Sabbath was established from morning to morning and not from evening to evening, as the Sabbath falls in Jerusalem half a day before the Seventh day of the week we call Saturday. I first learned about this in Genesis after someone mentioned that from evening to morning is only half a day. Making that half a day from evening to morning, which God called night, the last part of the first day that began with the light half, God called day, making the day come before night in the order of the days of the week of creation. I learned from Genesis that from evening to morning is just half a day and that the days of the week are from morning to morning, where the first evening falls in the middle of the first day. The first day is from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days are from morning to morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge