God said: Remember the Sabbath day (Ex 20:8) - but from which past event?

[Gary K]

Again with the unbliblical dichotomising of the law. There is no basis to uniquely call the 10 moral law or to extract them out of the covenant they are created in.

God called the 4th commadment a sign of the covenant between God and Israel (Ex 31:13) and enscribed on it on "two tablets of the covenant law" (Ex 31:18) then placed them inside the ark of the covenant. Do you see a theme here?

The 4th commandment, and by extension the 10 commandments are defined within their covenant they are created in as is repeated multiple times. They are not uniquely moral law they are uniquely covenant law, a covenant we are not under. Calling them moral doesn't change that they are bound within their covenant. You can call them moral law with hot fudge sauce and a cherry on top and its still an unbliblical definition and it still doesn't change them.

As to what I emphasized and your question, yes I do. It shows God placed great emphasis on them.

 

[DamianWarS]

turns out "The Bible is biblical"

Ceremonial/moral is a false dichotomy and unbliblical when it's motivated to extract the 10 commandments out of the old covenant. No where in the bible does it make this claim, no where in the bible does it isolate the 10 commandments to act independent from their covenant they are created in. Not to mention it isn't logical as the 4th is ceremonially based by definition. If you break any part of the law you break the whole thing which is repeated throughout the NT. This is not inside a 10 commandment vacuum and since you do not teach or keep the entire law then your methods are unable to keep any of the law regardless what terms you give them.

however since these terms are not biblically based it is irresponsible for us to use them to define doctrines without any support to back them up and doing so would make the doctrines just as unbliblical. The only biblical dichotomy there is for the law is old and new covenant. We are in the new, the 10 are in the old.

 

[DamianWarS]

As to what I emphasized and your question, yes I do. It shows God placed great emphasis on them.

They are emphazised within the covenant they are created in and uniquely called covenant law which gives them boundaries. They are not called universal law as you are treating them. Just because they are written on stone doesn't give you the authority to call them moral and all the rest not-moral. How dare you call any of God's law non-moral. All laws within a covenant are bound with that covenant innately and all laws are innately moral to the context of the covenant. Not one place tells us to extract the 10 and treat them independent to the covenant they are created in.

 

[Gary K]

They are emphazised within the covenant they are created in and uniquely called covenant law which gives them boundaries. They are not called universal law as you are treating them. Just because they are written on stone doesn't give you the authority to call them moral and all the rest not-moral. How dare you call any of God's law non-moral. All laws within a covenant are bound with that covenant innately and all laws are innately moral to the context of the covenant. Not one place tells us to extract the 10 and treat them independent to the covenant they are created in.

So we disagree once more. Now there's a shocker. Shrugs. I would have thought you'd be used to it by now. At least I'm consistent.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

indeed but I've never heard of anyone claiming the former. You seem to be pointing out something already well-established in mainstream theology. What's new with the 4th commandment is the commandment part which prior to Ex 16/4th commandment it's absent from scripture. these events are about 2500 years after creation. Reading Gen 2:1-3 makes no mention of a commandment, the only commandment in creation is to be fruitful and multiply. We are forced to conclude the commandment part is first introduced and is defined within the Mosaic covenant only.

Indeed, Jesus also said He is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning that the Sabbath is subject to Him. He is not subject to the Sabbath else He would not be Lord.
Some say that the Catholic Church has profaned the Sabbath and Changed it to Sunday, but that is not true. The Catholic Church worships seven days per week, seven times per day. We remember the Sabbath, but no longer practice the Old Covenant. We have the Liturgy of the Hours to follow our Lord and pray without ceasing. The lay faithful are called to remember the Lord on the day of the Resurrection, and the day the Church was first founded on Pentecost, but the Church is worshiping and praying everyday, seven times per day. There is no time or need for a Sabbath. That is the Old Covenant, in the New Covenant we rest eternally in Christ
Peace be with you

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Indeed, Jesus also said He is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning that the Sabbath is subject to Him. He is not subject to the Sabbath else He would not be Lord.
Some say that the Catholic Church has profaned the Sabbath and Changed it to Sunday, but that is not true. The Catholic Church worships seven days per week, seven times per day. We remember the Sabbath, but no longer practice the Old Covenant. We have the Liturgy of the Hours to follow our Lord and pray without ceasing. The lay faithful are called to remember the Lord on the day of the Resurrection, and the day the Church was first founded on Pentecost, but the Church is worshiping and praying everyday, seven times per day. There is no time or need for a Sabbath. That is the Old Covenant, in the New Covenant we rest eternally in Christ
Peace be with you

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath meaning He is the Creator of the Sabbath and would know how it is to be kept. He was correcting the Pharisees who were adding their rules to the Sabbath commandment, He was not bending the rules for His disciples.

There is no scripture that says we are to worship Him as the primary day of worship on the first day or day of the resurrection. God said six days were made for works and labors Exo 20:9 and the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10 The only day He made holy for Him and for us. Isa 58:13 Exo 20:8 as we are made in His image to follow Him. His faithful were keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment Luke 23:56 after His death and His covenant ratified and no changes could be made. Jesus never corrected or taught anything different. Jesus who has authority in heaven and earth commissioned His apostles to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18-20 and the apostles observed every Sabbath decades after the Cross preaching God’s Word to Jews and Gentiles alike. Act 18:4 Acts 13:42-44 Jesus said not one dot of an i or t can be changed from His law Mat 5:18 and we are warned about those who change His times and law Dan 7:25 as no one is above God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, written by God’s own finger spoken by God’s own voice and Jesus we are to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 We should obey God the way He asks and not was made popular by man. That what Jesus taught. Mat 5:19-14 Mark 7:7-13

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Indeed, Jesus also said He is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning that the Sabbath is subject to Him. He is not subject to the Sabbath else He would not be Lord.
Some say that the Catholic Church has profaned the Sabbath and Changed it to Sunday, but that is not true. The Catholic Church worships seven days per week, seven times per day. We remember the Sabbath, but no longer practice the Old Covenant. We have the Liturgy of the Hours to follow our Lord and pray without ceasing. The lay faithful are called to remember the Lord on the day of the Resurrection, and the day the Church was first founded on Pentecost, but the Church is worshiping and praying everyday, seven times per day. There is no time or need for a Sabbath. That is the Old Covenant, in the New Covenant we rest eternally in Christ
Peace be with you

Technically the Sabbath was never changed, though some call Sunday the Sabbath in error.
However On March 7, 321 AD Roman Emperor Constantine 1 issued a civil decree making Sunday a day of rest from labor, stating: All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun.

As for the OP when the "remember the sabbath day" is referring to: Genesis 2:1 because the same language is used and refers back to the 7th day the LORD rested: שביעי = Seventh, שבת = Sabbath

There is most certainly a need for a day of rest, it is a commandment of the LORD Yahweh, and our bodies need that day of rest from work, otherwise we would burn out quickly.
Jesus said emphatically he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill. The old covenant flows right into the new. It is by grace we are saved, but the law now becomes written in our hearts, or as Paul wrote in Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

 

[Gary K]

Indeed, Jesus also said He is Lord of the Sabbath, meaning that the Sabbath is subject to Him. He is not subject to the Sabbath else He would not be Lord.
Some say that the Catholic Church has profaned the Sabbath and Changed it to Sunday, but that is not true. The Catholic Church worships seven days per week, seven times per day. We remember the Sabbath, but no longer practice the Old Covenant. We have the Liturgy of the Hours to follow our Lord and pray without ceasing. The lay faithful are called to remember the Lord on the day of the Resurrection, and the day the Church was first founded on Pentecost, but the Church is worshiping and praying everyday, seven times per day. There is no time or need for a Sabbath. That is the Old Covenant, in the New Covenant we rest eternally in Christ
Peace be with you

We've been discussing similar things on our other thread. Since when does the church have the right to tell its members to ignore what God plainly taught for millenia and say you can ignore what God has plainly said for thousands of years and do something different, i.e. substitute some other behavior in place of what God commanded?

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

We've been discussing similar things on our other thread. Since when does the church have the right to tell its members to ignore what God plainly taught for millenia and say you can ignore what God has plainly said for thousands of years and do something different, i.e. substitute some other behavior in place of what God commanded?

Amen!
I also grew up in USA where Sunday "blue laws" were everywhere. Not so much now, but back 40 years ago or more hardly anything was open on Sunday. But I remember in 1981 they worked every Saturday. Also Friday sundown till Saturday sundown is the biggest party time for Americans, Saturday night too, which according to Hebrew reckoning would be first day of the week.

 

[Gary K]

Amen!
I also grew up in USA where Sunday "blue laws" were everywhere. Not so much now, but back 40 years ago or more hardly anything was open on Sunday. But I remember in 1981 they worked every Saturday. Also Friday sundown till Saturday sundown is the biggest party time for Americans, Saturday night too, which according to Hebrew reckoning would be first day of the week.

Thanks.

You must have grown up in the south in the so-called Bible belt. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and there are no Sunday closings except by individual business owners who are honest at heart Christians who do keep Sunday holy. There is one business in the small town I live in .that closes on Sunday, a restaurant.

BTW, that last name of yours is a mouthful. Its worse than mine, and I'm Finnish.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

Thanks.

You must have grown up in the south in the so-called Bible belt. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and there are no Sunday closings except by individual business owners who are honest at heart Christians who do keep Sunday holy. There is one business in the small town I live in .that closes on Sunday, a restaurant.

Nope. Northeast actually, the liberal Northeast, LoL. They began changing it in later 80s into 90s. But I remember in 1997 a bunch of stuff closed on Sunday in Connecticut and I had to drive to northern Mass near Vermont.

In relevance to this thread, there were laws regarding Sunday. Here's what Wikipedia says regarding them: (Obviously trying to say the Sabbath is Sunday... Daniel "He shall think to change times and laws..." Shows what spirit that is: antichrist.)

"Blue laws, also known as Sunday laws, are laws that restrict or ban some or all activities on specified days (most often on Sundays in the western world), particularly to promote the observance of a day of rest.[1] Such laws may restrict shopping or ban sale of certain items on specific days. Blue laws are enforced in parts of the United States and Canada as well as some European countries, particularly in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and Norway, keeping most stores closed on Sundays.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held blue laws as constitutional numerous times, citing secular bases such as securing a day of rest for mail carriers,[2] as well as protecting workers and families, in turn contributing to societal stability and guaranteeing the free exercise of religion.[1][3][4] The origin of the blue laws also partially stems from religion, particularly the prohibition of Sabbath desecration in Christian Churches following the first-day Sabbatarian tradition. Both labor unions and trade associations have historically supported the legislation of blue laws.[1] Most blue laws have been repealed in the United States, although many states ban selling cars and impose tighter restrictions on the sale of alcoholic drinks on Sundays."

 

[Gary K]

Nope. Northeast actually, the liberal Northeast, LoL. They began changing it in later 80s into 90s. But I remember in 1997 a bunch of stuff closed on Sunday in Connecticut and I had to drive to northern Mass near Vermont.

In relevance to this thread, there were laws regarding Sunday. Here's what Wikipedia says regarding them: (Obviously trying to say the Sabbath is Sunday... Daniel "He shall think to change times and laws..." Shows what spirit that is: antichrist.)

"Blue laws, also known as Sunday laws, are laws that restrict or ban some or all activities on specified days (most often on Sundays in the western world), particularly to promote the observance of a day of rest.[1] Such laws may restrict shopping or ban sale of certain items on specific days. Blue laws are enforced in parts of the United States and Canada as well as some European countries, particularly in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, and Norway, keeping most stores closed on Sundays.

The U.S. Supreme Court has held blue laws as constitutional numerous times, citing secular bases such as securing a day of rest for mail carriers,[2] as well as protecting workers and families, in turn contributing to societal stability and guaranteeing the free exercise of religion.[1][3][4] The origin of the blue laws also partially stems from religion, particularly the prohibition of Sabbath desecration in Christian Churches following the first-day Sabbatarian tradition. Both labor unions and trade associations have historically supported the legislation of blue laws.[1] Most blue laws have been repealed in the United States, although many states ban selling cars and impose tighter restrictions on the sale of alcoholic drinks on Sundays."

Yeah, I know what blue laws are. I just didn't know the northeast was a hotbed of blue laws back then. It doesn't surprise me much though as the Puritans who founded the Massachussets Bay Colony were very legalistic. Not so with Rhode Island which was founded by Roger Williams. Even the Pilgrims were better that the Puritans as they looked at religion as a means of self improvement through the power of God. The Puritans were a lot different in that they desired everyone to do what they said was right.

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath meaning He is the Creator of the Sabbath and would know how it is to be kept. He was correcting the Pharisees who were adding their rules to the Sabbath commandment, He was not bending the rules for His disciples.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luk 6:5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Anyone who reads the context where it's said that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath can know that being Lord of the Sabbath means you're exempt and must work as a priest or Levite and must minister (work) on the Sabbath. The Pharisees doubted that Jesus had authority as a priest.
Jesus was not correcting or teaching the proper way to keep the Sabbath. Jesus was using His authority as God to heal.

There is no scripture that says we are to worship Him as the primary day of worship on the first day or day of the resurrection. God said six days were made for works and labors Exo 20:9 and the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.

That was the argument the Pharisees was making, were they wrong?

Exo 20:10 The only day He made holy for Him and for us. Isa 58:13 Exo 20:8 as we are made in His image to follow Him. His faithful were keeping the Sabbath according to the commandment Luke 23:56 after His death and His covenant ratified and no changes could be made. Jesus never corrected or taught anything different. Jesus who has authority in heaven and earth commissioned His apostles to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18-20 and the apostles observed every Sabbath decades after the Cross preaching God’s Word to Jews and Gentiles alike. Act 18:4 Acts 13:42-44 Jesus said not one dot of an i or t can be changed from His law Mat 5:18 and we are warned about those who change His times and law Dan 7:25 as no one is above God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, written by God’s own finger spoken by God’s own voice and Jesus we are to live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 We should obey God the way He asks and not was made popular by man. That what Jesus taught. Mat 5:19-14 Mark 7:7-13

This montage of scriptures is provided to confuse the facts. God help us.

 

[trophy33]

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath meaning ...

...meaning He is not bound by its limitations. Sabbath is not above Him, but He is above the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

...meaning He is not bound by its limitations. Sabbath is not above Him, but He is above the Sabbath.

Jesus wasn't a sinner. He created the Sabbath as a blessing for mankind and for sanctification. Isa 56:1-6 Isa 58:13 Eze 20:12. Jesus kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments the way He commanded as our example to follow. Heb 4:15 1 Pet 2:21-22 1 John 2:6.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luk 6:5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Anyone who reads the context where it's said that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath can know that being Lord of the Sabbath means you're exempt and must work as a priest or Levite and must minister (work) on the Sabbath. The Pharisees doubted that Jesus had authority as a priest.
Jesus was not correcting or teaching the proper way to keep the Sabbath. Jesus was using His authority as God to heal.

The context is the Pharisees were accusing the apostles of breaking the Sabbath because they were eating grain when walking with Jesus because they were hungry - which there is no law of God that says one can't eat on the Sabbath- Jesus said they were guiltless, so He was correcting them Mat 12:7

That was the argument the Pharisees was making, were they wrong?

Are you siding with the Pharisees? That the disciples sinned and Jesus bent the rules for them, but condemned the Pharisees for breaking the commandments of God. I hope this is not your argument because you know what this makes Jesus.

 

[Cribstyl]

God said: Remember the Sabbath day (Ex 20:8) - but from which past event?​

The 4th commandment is completely explained in Ex 20 and Deut 5

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exo 20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ex 20:8 is actually the commandment. It's addressing WHAT to keep (Sabbath) and WHO to keep it (Israel).
Ex20:9,10 explains HOW to keep it.
Ex20:11 explains WHY to keep it.

About 40yr after Ex 20, Moses remind Israel in Deut 5 that they were cowering in fear when God spoke from the burning bush.
Moses explains that he was the only one who could tell you what God said.

Deu 5:4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5(I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,


Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Deut 5:12 Moses is saying that God's commandment to you (Israel) is that you must keep the Sabbath day holy.
Deut 5:13, 14 explains with exact words as Ex 20 about HOW to keep the Sabbath.
Deut 5:15 gives a different reason WHY to keep the Sabbath.

The OP's objective is backdating Sabbath to creation, but the truth written both in Gen 2 and Ex 20 is that God rested and blessed the seventh day of creation.
God's rest was not accessible to man until God offered it. God did not keep Sabbath with man (No scripture says that), His rest has always been on His throne in heaven.

 

[Cribstyl]

The context is the Pharisees were accusing the apostles of breaking the Sabbath because they were eating grain when walking with Jesus because they were hungry - which there is no law of God that says one can't eat on the Sabbath- Jesus said they were guiltless, so He was correcting them Mat 12:7

Are you siding with the Pharisees? That the disciples sinned and Jesus bent the rules for them, but condemned the Pharisees for breaking the commandments of God. I hope this is not your argument because you know what this makes Jesus.

You're mistaken, the law says; Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

The Pharisees knew that picking grain (not eating) was forbidden on Sabbath. Remember that manna had to be gathered in the six days and never on Sabbath?

Hope you rethink your position on this.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're mistaken, the law says; Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

The Pharisees knew that picking grain (not eating) was forbidden on Sabbath. Remember that manna had to be gathered in the six days and never on Sabbath?

Hope you rethink your position on this.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

They were not harvesting, they were eating the tops while walking with Jesus because they were hungry. No different than picking a piece of fruit on the Sabbath. Jesus said they were guiltless, your position is the same position of the Pharisees, who also condemned Jesus for breaking the Sabbath, when He didn't.

 

[Cribstyl]

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

They were not harvesting, they were eating the tops while walking with Jesus because they were hungry. No different than picking a piece of fruit on the Sabbath. Jesus said they were guiltless, your position is the position of the Pharisees, who also condemned Jesus for breaking the Sabbath, when He didn't.

The plucking of corn is breaking the Sabbath. They were guiltless because of Jesus authority over the Sabbath.