Does the law set us free?

[14messenger]

If the law is only intended to punish the wicked, are those that avoid wickedness set free by the law of God?

 

[maco]

If the law is only intended to punish the wicked, are those that avoid wickedness set free by the law of God?

If people can grasp what you're saying it will lead to a powerful transformation in their lives. Sin brings bondage and death, not freedom and life. The Law points out sin so that Jesus can delivers us from it's power and consequence.

I like to use the Law as a fence for an example. Do you see the fence as restrictive or protective?

If you see the fence (Law) as restrictive you will hate it and find a way around it and get bit by the dog (sin). Then you will have to go to the hospital.

James 1:21-25 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

If the whole world quit stealing, killing, committing adultery and so on do you think people will experience liberty and safety in their lives?

 

[from scratch]

If the law is only intended to punish the wicked, are those that avoid wickedness set free by the law of God?

No.

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

 

[from scratch]

If people can grasp what you're saying it will lead to a powerful transformation in their lives. Sin brings bondage and death, not freedom and life. The Law points out sin so that Jesus can delivers us from it's power and consequence.

I like to use the Law as a fence for an example. Do you see the fence as restrictive or protective?

If you see the fence (Law) as restrictive you will hate it and find a way around it and get bit by the dog (sin). Then you will have to go to the hospital.

James 1:21-25 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

If the whole world quit stealing, killing, committing adultery and so on do you think people will experience liberty and safety in their lives?

So who is the fence for? If it was to restrain the dog, what would the consequences be? I have dogs and the fence is to restrict the freedom of the dog not necessarily to protect people from the dog. It does also serve that purpose while not the intent of the fence.

 

[maco]

So who is the fence for? If it was to restrain the dog, what would the consequences be? I have dogs and the fence is to restrict the freedom of the dog not necessarily to protect people from the dog. It does also serve that purpose while not the intent of the fence.

Nice twisting of truth... God says the the man of sin would change God's Law and times. This means it's going to happen and in order for it to happen there has to be a twisting of truth. You can see the fence as retraining the dog or you can see the fence as protecting the public. If you want to distort truth you can make the fence about retraining the dog but if you want the truth that sets you free than the fence is about protecting the public from the dog.

Sin destroys relationships and the goodness in God's creation whether you are a Jew or a Gentile, lost or saved.

Romans 2:7-10 He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.

 

[from scratch]

Nice twisting of truth... God says the the man of sin would change God's Law and times. This means it's going to happen and in order for it to happen there has to be a twisting of truth. You can see the fence as retraining the dog or you can see the fence as protecting the public. If you want to distort truth you can make the fence about retraining the dog but if you want the truth that sets you free than the fence is about protecting the public from the dog.

Sin destroys relationships and the goodness in God's creation whether you are a Jew or a Gentile, lost or saved.

Romans 2:7-10 He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.

Yeah right. ehehehehe

 

[BobRyan]

The Gospel sets us free from slavery to law-breaking.


1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the Law"

1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

So that brings us to the quote for this thread - in Romans 6.

============== Romans 6

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.


Of course in Romans 6 this is all from Paul -- so unless someone isn't reading Paul at all - they will not miss this.

 

[maco]

The Gospel sets us free from slavery to law-breaking.


1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the Law"

1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

So that brings us to the quote for this thread - in Romans 6.

============== Romans 6

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Of course in Romans 6 this is all from Paul -- so unless someone isn't reading Paul at all - they will not miss this.

Very nicely done... Rightly dividing the word of truth surely brings blessing to the people who love God and keep His commandments as an expression of that love.

 

[Cribstyl]

If the law is only intended to punish the wicked, are those that avoid wickedness set free by the law of God?

My answer to your question is No. The law is a letter that condemns sin. There can be no freedom from the law as long as you're living the flesh.

If you continue to confuse, ignore or fail to understand why the bible teach that you're free from the law. You will continue to reject what Christ has done and continue striving to keep the law.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 

[BobRyan]

Very nicely done... Rightly dividing the word of truth surely brings blessing to the people who love God and keep His commandments as an expression of that love.

Amen - the saved view the Law of God as does Paul in 1Cor 7:19 and in Romans 6 and Romans 3:31.

But the lost view the law as something that only condemns as Paul tells us in Rom 3:19-20 because the Law of God only condemns the lost.

But for the saved - we have Hebrews 8 and the Law written on the heart and mind. Something that is totally foreign to the experience of the lost.

Why then do some Christians want to continually circle back to the POV of the lost when it comes to the Law of God?

That is the mystery.

As for the saints "they KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 just as John says also in 1John 5:1-4.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[maco]

Amen - the saved view the Law of God as does Paul in 1Cor 7:19 and in Romans 6 and Romans 3:31.

But the lost view the law as something that only condemns as Paul tells us in Rom 3:19-20 because the Law of God only condemns the lost.

But for the saved - we have Hebrews 8 and the Law written on the heart and mind. Something that is totally foreign to the experience of the lost.

Why then do some Christians want to continually circle back to the POV of the lost when it comes to the Law of God?

That is the mystery.

As for the saints "they KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 just as John says also in 1John 5:1-4.

in Christ,

Bob

Amen! Paul said he rejoiced in the Law of God. I like Psalms 119 because it shows the heart attitude of one who is rightly related to God.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The answer is no.... If you aren't sinning the Law does NOTHING for you, it is only useful to curb sin by punishment (death) and if there is no punishment then you are on your own because essentially you could easily ignore the Law and do as you please. Jesus knew there would be a time after he died that the Law would no longer be the force it was with stonings of adulterers and Sabbath breakers etc and he revealed to Paul the Gospel of Grace that makes the Law..... history. With no Law policemen out there we are on our own as far as determining and punishing ourselves for sinning. This includes deciding what is sin to us along the guildelines presented in the New Testament by Jesus and the Apostles in proper context of what position they held in relationship to God (Old or New Covenant).

 

[from scratch]

The Gospel sets us free from slavery to law-breaking.


1 John 3:4 "Sin is transgression of the Law"

1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

So that brings us to the quote for this thread - in Romans 6.

============== Romans 6

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.


Of course in Romans 6 this is all from Paul -- so unless someone isn't reading Paul at all - they will not miss this.

All we have here is the usual half truths and the out of context twisting of Bible.

Your presenting of Rom 6 supports my idea - not yours. It talks about, not keeping the law.

I don't yield my flesh to the slavery of sin (lust of the flesh) and its mostly under control of the Spirit which has become my will. Oh yeah I can still get angry when the neighbor shots my dog and so far I've not returned the evil even though the enemy has presented many ideas to get even (return evil). I even wave to him.

 

[Cribstyl]

If people can grasp what you're saying it will lead to a powerful transformation in their lives. Sin brings bondage and death, not freedom and life. The Law points out sin so that Jesus can delivers us from it's power and consequence.

I like to use the Law as a fence for an example. Do you see the fence as restrictive or protective?

If you see the fence (Law) as restrictive you will hate it and find a way around it and get bit by the dog (sin). Then you will have to go to the hospital.

James 1:21-25 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

If the whole world quit stealing, killing, committing adultery and so on do you think people will experience liberty and safety in their lives?

Let you tell it, Adam and Eve lived by fear of the big bad dog.

 

[from scratch]

Amen - the saved view the Law of God as does Paul in 1Cor 7:19 and in Romans 6 and Romans 3:31.

But the lost view the law as something that only condemns as Paul tells us in Rom 3:19-20 because the Law of God only condemns the lost.

But for the saved - we have Hebrews 8 and the Law written on the heart and mind. Something that is totally foreign to the experience of the lost.

Why then do some Christians want to continually circle back to the POV of the lost when it comes to the Law of God?

That is the mystery.

As for the saints "they KEEP the Commandments of God AND Their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 just as John says also in 1John 5:1-4.

in Christ,

Bob

It may shock you, but I view the law the same way Paul does. Here's the kicker though - I don't view the law the same way you do.

I doesn't matter if you quote or cite Heb 8 or Jer 31 the same appears both places. But I do note a serious missing part of the context - Not according to... which appears in both places. This you refuse to acknowledge.

And why you think your Revelation reverence means the Ten Commandments, I'll never understand. It simply goes against all John's other works.

 

[maco]

Let you tell it, Adam and Eve lived by fear of the big bad dog.

Did they?

 

[Cribstyl]

Did they?

I believe in scripture only........ The opinion of man is like a breathmint.
Jesus commissioned His disciples to teach the gospel not the law.

Questions can be designed to avoid what God requires of us.

Saying that God's commandments are restricted to the ten commandment is a word game that some will follow ignorantly.
The context of your prooftexts exposes your motives to force condemnation by the law.

 

[maco]

I believe in scripture only........ The opinion of man is like a breathmint.
Jesus commissioned His disciples to teach the gospel not the law.

Questions can be designed to avoid what God requires of us.

Saying that God's commandments are restricted to the ten commandment is a word game that some will follow ignorantly.
The context of your prooftexts exposes your motives to force condemnation by the law.

James 2:8-11 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Matthew 19:16-19 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Just in case you don't know the definition of godly love he explains it very clearly.

Romans 13:8-9 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Do you lie, kill, rape, steal, worship other gods, use God's name in vain and so on? Why not? Are you under the Law? Are you trying to earn your salvation? Or do you love God and see value in God's way of living?

Only those who have been born of God see value in living as God calls us to live.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

 

[Cribstyl]

James 2:8-11 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

By add the scriptures below you're creating a questionable teaching.
The royal law according to the scripture is not the ten commandments, it's to love your neighbor.



Matthew 19:16-19 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” He said to Him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Romans 13:8-9 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Do you lie, kill, rape, steal, worship other gods, use God's name in vain and so on? Why not? Are you under the Law? Are you trying to earn your salvation? Or do you love God and see value in God's way of living?

Only those who have been born of God see value in living as God calls us to live.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.[/quote]
Your commentary is misleading and twisting the understanding of those scriptures. Matt 19 happened before the cross and it exposes your intentions to play a word game about the law.

 

[Sophrosyne]

By add the scriptures below you're creating a questionable teaching.[/color][/size]
The royal law according to the scripture is not the ten commandments, it's to love your neighbor.


Your commentary is misleading and twisting the understanding of those scriptures. Matt 19 happened before the cross and it exposes your intentions to play a word game about the law.

Keep at it... maybe one day they will actually read what we are saying and understand it does mean something instead of using it like the Bell that Pavlov's Dog was trained to act upon.