Are We an Unknowing Part of the Church of Laodecia

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The Sabbath
Exodus 20:8-11 says:

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days YHWH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YHWH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

YHWH tells us which day to observe the Sabbath on, the seventh day. He even included it in the ten commandments. It is obviously very important to him, he says that anyone who doesn’t observe it is to be put to death in Exodus 31:15. It is a mark of our obedience. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath and Yeshua was the creator, he made the Sabbath, we dishonour Yeshua by not keeping it. His death did not do away with the need to observe it. It’s the one commandment that acknowledges the reason that we worship YHWH (he is the creator). In Exodus 5, it was only when Pharoah stopped YHWH’s people from keeping the Sabbath that he stepped in. The scriptures say numerous times that it is to be on the seventh day but Genesis 2:1-3 is one other example of this.

In Isaiah 6:3 and Revelation 4:8 we can see an example of Hebrew parallelism (when a word is used multiple times to emphasise it) and we see Yeshua doing this when he uses verily I say unto you or verily, verily I say unto you. YHWH uses this to emphasise the importance of the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 when he says that it is the seventh day, three times in rapid succession.

In Luke 23:56, the disciples didn’t even embalm Yeshua’s body because they didn’t want to break the Sabbath. Hebrews 4:9 says:

“There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of YHWH”

In Luke 4:16 and Mark 1:21 we can see that it was Yeshua’s custom to keep the Sabbath.

Two of YWHW’s most beautiful promises are seen in Isaiah 58:13-14 when he says:

“If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YHWH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Then shalt thou delight thyself in YHWH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.”

Sunday Worship
Isaiah 14:14 shows that Satan wants to be like the most high. Satan wants his own Sabbath and he has gone about it through the anti-Christ power, his agent on Earth, the Roman Catholic Church. I could go into a lot of detail about why the Roman Catholic Church is the anti-Christ power but, suffice to say, they are heavily Satanic.

Daniel 7:25 says that Satan will change YHWH’s times and laws and he has achieved this through the Roman Catholic Church (the Gregorian calendar, Sunday worship, Catholic version of the ten commandments etc). The Sabbath was observed on a Saturday (sun down Friday to sun down Saturday) until the fourth century when it was outlawed at the council of Laodicea (we all know what Yeshua had to say about the church of Laodecia).

Constantine (read Roman Catholicism) paganised Christianity when he changed our worship to include Easter and Christmas, pagan festivals to worship Ashteroth and Baal. YHWH is constantly highlighting to us that his people always ended up worshipping Ashteroth and Baal and giving us strong warnings against it in the scriptures. I was actually under the impression that Christianity was just a way to sell Satanism to the masses because of the observance of Easter and Christmas and the fact that Christians worshipped on Sunday (the venerable day of the sun (again Baal worship)) before I became a Christian and I started looking into things in more depth. This is actually commonly used, erroneously, as evidence that Christianity is just the ancient Babylonian sun religion repackaged and used to justify conquest (again read Roman Catholicism). [Staff Edit]


For all YHWH’s people not just the Jews
The feasts of YHWH were given to the twelve tribes (not just the Jews (house of Judah)) as they were YHWH’s people in Lev 23:2. They are definitely not Jewish feasts. Lev. 23:4 says:

"These are the feasts of YHWH, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim in their seasons"

The feasts are important to YHWH for many reasons, I’m sure he’s pretty angry that we, not only don’t observe them, but observe pagan festivals and say that they’re for his honour. In Exodus 32 he actually kills 3000 Israelites for doing the same thing.

We can see in Deuteronomy 29:10-15 that it doesn’t matter if you’re an Israelite (that we’re grafted into the House of Israel is another matter that is worth looking into) you have to keep the law. Isaiah 56:1-8 is talking about ANYONE who does these things as does Revelation 12:17 and 14:12. The issue has never been nationality it is about obedience.

Ephesians 2:12-14 says:

“That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;”

The significance of Christ rising on Sunday was that it was the feast of First Fruits, nothing to do with the day. Palm Sunday is another invention of the Roman Catholic Church.

Isaiah 66:22-23 shows that the Sabbath will be observed in the new heavens and the new Earth and Micah 4:1-2 show that Yeshua is coming back to establish his law. All will be subject to it as we are now. Nothing has changed or ever will, YHWH is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Paul says to keep the Passover in 1 Corinthians 5:7-8 and the disciples were fighting against anti-semitism in the church and the anti-Christ power in Rome (1 John 2:18-22). John says in 3 John 9-10 that the church has even expelled him and his Jewish brothers. The church is very susceptible to false doctrine and has been from the beginning. The most important people for Satan to deceive are in fact YHWH’s children and he loves the idea of us worshipping him, even unknowingly. We have to only do things scripturally and not according to the traditions of men. The Bible is our only anchor to the truth so we have to look to that for guidance.


The Torah
Torah means YHWH’s instruction. It tells us how to live our life and it is important that we’re taught it. It is however woefully lacking in most modern church services, when it is in fact how YHWH communicates how we are to live. YHWH’s instruction has been there from the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, it was only codified by Moses.

Yeshua said in Matthew 23:1-3 that we should listen to what the Pharisees taught from the seat of Moses but not copy their behaviour in not following it. In Acts 15:20-21 Paul says to not confuse new Christians by loading them down with all of the Torah at first, he says they’ll learn the Torah when it is taught every Sabbath.

There are some common misconceptions that should be dealt with as well so they don’t confuse the matter:

Romans 14:5 is not saying that we don’t have to observe YHWH’s appointed times (Sabbaths, feasts etc) but, in context, it is about fasting. In Collosians 2:16-17, the problem is not them keeping the Sabbath, it’s saying don’t be judged by men over keeping what YHWH deems sacred. When Paul asks the Galatians why they go back to the times they observed, he is talking about their pagan festivals (this is exactly what we do when we celebrate Easter and Christmas), not their Christian observances.

Matthew 5:6 coupled with Psalm 119:172 show what righteousness is in a Biblical sense (following YHWH’s commandments) and Acts 5:32 shows that the spirit is given to those who obey him. Ecclesiasties 12:13 puts it very succinctly as:

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear YHWH, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.”


Clean and Unclean
It is an important part of the law of YHWH that we don’t use certain animals for food. To the mind set of people at the time when the scriptures were written, unclean animals were not food. Clean and unclean was a very basic issue.

There are several misunderstood verses, or verses that have been deliberately twisted by those seeking to go against what YHWH has clearly said, so I’ll address them now:

Romans 14 is about food sacrificed to idols, not about following the commandments of YHWH. If this is taken in context, and given that YHWH’s laws are immutable, it cannot be understood as saying that it is okay to eat animals that YHWH has deemed unclean. 1 Corinthians 8 gives more insight into what is meant by ‘weak’ in this chapter.

Mark 7 is Peter’s vision. When Yeshua says ‘food’, he was speaking to a mind that was in tune with YHWH’s law. Yeshua was talking about the oral Jewish traditions over what was clean and unclean (religious observance of things not in the Torah, what he was criticising the Pharisees for until they murdered him), not what YHWH had deemed clean and unclean. The problem he’s addressing is the Pharisees religious nonsense about hand washing. If he’d been saying to eat unclean animals they would have had him executed for blaspheme there and then.

In 1 Peter 1:15 Peter quotes from Leviticus 11, which is the chapter about what you can and can’t eat, when he says be holy as YHWH is holy. Eating the right food is part of being holy. Deuteronomy 14:21 makes the differentiation between what the holy should eat and what anyone else should eat when it says:

“Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto YHWH thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.”

Again in 1 Timothy 4, when it talks about food, it is food to a mind that understands YHWH’s law. In 1 Timothy 4:4 the ‘if’ is very important and in 1 Timothy 4:5, it mentions the word of YHWH which was the Old Testament at the time.

Collosians 2:21-23 is again talking about religious observance, not the law of YHWH.


Satan’s Attack
Satan is using the same technique of twisting scriptures that he used when he tempted Yeshua in the wilderness. He’s actually using the same technique of manipulation that he used when he deceived Eve and asked her if YHWH had really said that they would die if they ate of the fruit. 2 Peter 3:16 says that some twist the scriptures to their own destruction.

Collosians 2:8 says:

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

There are stark warnings throughout the Bible and this is obviously something that YHWH is warning his church about. These are very important matters, both to us spiritually and to YHWH.

Please feel free to debate any or all of the above points.
 
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intermentals

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It is impossible for a Christian to keep the Sabbath in these modern days. Even if you turn the water tap in your kitchen, you cause someone to work.

You're talking about Talmudic traditions there, not biblical criteria for keeping the Sabbath. It's spending time with YHWH in obedience to his commandments. It's not hard, I keep the Sabbath, not in a legalistic way to be saved but because I love YHWH. The law is written on my heart so I want to please YHWH. YHWH's commands are always for our benefit, if we trust him we follow what he says. That is what the authors of the Bible understood to be the meaning of belief. Intellectual belief is discussed in James 2:19:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Believing in YHWH is well beyond mental assent, it's trusting and obeying him.
 
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rockytopva

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How I interpret the church ages...



1. Ephesus – Apostolic – Leaving the first love… “All they which are in Asia be turned away from me…” – II Timothy 1:15
2. Smyrna – Martyrs – Persecutions ten days… Foxes Book of Martyrs describes ten Roman persecutions.
3. Pergamos – Orthodox – A pyrgos is a fortified structure – Needed for the dark ages.
4. Thyatira – Catholic – The Spirit of Jezebel is to persecute, control, and to dominate. This spirit can invade any church!
5. Sardis – Protestant – A sardius is a gem, elegant yet hard and rigid. Doctrine in the head, little in the heart.
6. Philadelphia – Methodist – To obtain sanctification was to do so with love.
7. Laodicea – Charismatic – Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?


Yep... Laodicean church fits the age... .The shoe fits the day and the time!
 
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intermentals

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What if I go sailing on a Sunday and pray to God as go?

Well that would be between you and YHWH. Isaiah 58:13:

13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of YHWH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Well!

Imagine that!

Another keep the law Sabbath thread.

I sure am Glad that Jesus fulfilled the law.

That means born again ones do not have to! :clap:

We're still to follow the law even if we can't perfectly fulfill it like Yeshua. He just did away with the penalties we've amassed for breaking the law. It's like a police officer letting you off for speeding and saying 'you're forgiven, go and speed no more'. He's not doing away with the speeding law. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). We're to repent of sin and turn from it. We can't be perfect but it doesn't mean the law is done away with. If you present some scripture that you think supports what you're saying I'll explain it but I reckon you're going to get something from Romans or Galatians:

Look on youtube for two videos called Understanding Romans and Understanding Galatians, they will be very helpful to you.

You might quote Collossians 2:16-17 but Paul isn't saying there that people shouldn't be worried about being judged for not keeping the Sabbaths etc, he's saying don't worry about being judged for keeping them. You've got to understand it in context. He's talking to a people that are from a pagan society that would be judged for keeping the Sabbath.

This issue is dealt with in acts. At the Jerusalem council the question are asked if Christians are to follow the law of Moses. Peter says not to confuse them at first with loads of rules, just to tell them the basics because they'll learn the rest when Moses is preached on the Sabbath.

Some people even say that the Christian Sabbath is Sunday. In the new testament Saturday is called the Sabbath and Sunday is called the first day of the week. Yeshua created the Sabbath and it says many many times it is to be the seventh day.

Yeshua kept the Sabbath and so did the disciples, even after Yeshua's death. They even stopped embalming him to observe the Sabbath. Luke 23:56:

56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

If he was somehow changing the law (impossible but anyway) his disciples wouldn't be observing it.

This is a way in which Christians are mislead. What you just said is a common teaching but it is a teaching of men. It is not Biblical. Yeshua knew this would happen. Mark 7:7-13:

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye;

The law still stands. We can't fulfill it perfectly and we're under grace when we mess up but we have to try. We have to hold it as the standard we should aim to attain.
 
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Where in the Bible does it say that that's no longer part of the law? If sin is transgression of the law and that's part of the law then how are we not sinning by ignoring that because it's not "convenient" in today's society?

Just because we're taught by men that that is an outdated practice doesn't mean that that is how YHWH sees it. We've got to go by his Word if we want to know that. His Word is clear. We are to follow the law. The most important commandment is to love YHWH. We show our love by our obedience over social conformity.

You've got to either stand with YHWH or stand with the world. The Bible is clear on that.
 
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intermentals

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Romans 8:7-8:

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The point is often erroneously made that this somehow refers to a new law contained in the New Testament but I would point out that the New Testament didn't exist when this letter was written. The law is the law of Moses, the same law that's referred to throughout the scriptures. The law is a poor translation anyway, a better one would be Torah or instruction and teachings. The law is and was for our own good. It can't possibly be changed. Yeshua's death didn't change the law and it doesn't even imply that in the scriptures. Matthew 5:18:

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and Earth certainly haven't passed. You are just repeating something that you have been taught by men.
 
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rockytopva

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And there are still people that think it's Biblical that Christ did away with the law just by fulfilling it? What is the scriptural evidence for that view? I can accept people saying that they believe that but not that it's in any way based on what the Bible says. It would be the biggest topic in the Bible if Yeshua was saying he'd done away with the law. I think he would have mentioned it at least once.

Every king of Israel had to write a copy of the Torah. Yeshua wrote his on our hearts. It's really simple, this shouldn't be a topic for debate just one that people who hold that misconception are put straight on.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Where in the Bible does it say that that's no longer part of the law? If sin is transgression of the law and that's part of the law then how are we not sinning by ignoring that because it's not "convenient" in today's society?

Just because we're taught by men that that is an outdated practice doesn't mean that that is how YHWH sees it. We've got to go by his Word if we want to know that. His Word is clear. We are to follow the law. The most important commandment is to love YHWH. We show our love by our obedience over social conformity.

You've got to either stand with YHWH or stand with the world. The Bible is clear on that.

The Sabbath is part of the Law God gave Israel (the Torah), but so is the affixing of the mezuzah to the doorpost and the wearing of tzizit. God gave 613 commandments to Israel as part of the Covenant He made with them at Sinai.

Christians are not bound to observe the Torah. Period.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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And there are still people that think it's Biblical that Christ did away with the law just by fulfilling it? What is the scriptural evidence for that view? I can accept people saying that they believe that but not that it's in any way based on what the Bible says. It would be the biggest topic in the Bible if Yeshua was saying he'd done away with the law. I think he would have mentioned it at least once.

Every king of Israel had to write a copy of the Torah. Yeshua wrote his on our hearts. It's really simple, this shouldn't be a topic for debate just one that people who hold that misconception are put straight on.

So you observe each and every of the 613 commandments? You wear tzizit? You observe kashrut? You're bris milah? When was the last time you made your wife leave the community and shut herself up during the period of her menstruation, and where did you acquire the pigeon to give as an offering? Have you ensured that your none of your clothing is of mixed fibers--that means no cotton polyester blends. You don't shave the pavot on the sides of your head do you?

If you are not willing to obey all of God's commandments given in the Torah, then you have no right to suggest we are at fault for not observing the Torah.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Stryder06

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It is impossible for a Christian to keep the Sabbath in these modern days. Even if you turn the water tap in your kitchen, you cause someone to work.

Excuses. That's like saying it's impossible to stay faithful in the modern days. If you drive pas a billboard and see someone half naked you've lusted in your heart.
 
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