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How Could God Predestine Me For Salvation From Before the Foundation of the World

So my understanding of Reformed Soteriology is that God predestines individuals for salvation from before the foundation of the world. That is to say that he chose who will be saved before he had even created the world. Is this a fair representation of what Reformed Soteriology says?

If so, my question is how?
I also understand from a Reformed perspective (as opposed to what Arminius proposed) this is based of the sovereignty of God, not based on his foreknowledge. As such, how could God predestine me, before I was created (before anything was created), without knowing that I would exist, because it is not based on his foreknowledge?

(Please don't answer by saying that God sits outside of time, so doesn't need to use his foreknowledge to know I would exist - consider foreknowledge to mean a knowledge of thing within time - if we agree that this is what we mean by foreknowledge?)

I can understand that if God was thinking about creation, he could consider than man would sin, and therefore could predestine Jesus to come and be a propitiating sacrifice for the world. But if he knew exactly what would happen to each individual, because that is how he planned it, rather than what he foresaw, then how is free will even possible? I was born dead, my parents ignored the doctors when they said it was hopeless to consider that I could live. The billions of choices that have culminated in me even existing, if they are truly free, could even God actually do the math? Of course yes, but the other question is would he?

Further, if you say that it is a mystery of God. Do we believe that we are made in God's image, able to understand his ways, or at least his ways with the world?
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Pray that cooler heads prevail in regards to the currently ongoing Middle Eastern military confrontations so that we can all Avoid WW3

Pray that cooler heads prevail in regards to the currently ongoing Middle Eastern military confrontations so that we can all Avoid WW3 :

3 offshoots of the God of Abraham may have used the same mount

"Two recently discovered Byzantine-era coin weights are evidence there was a Christian presence on the Temple Mount before the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem, and perhaps even point to an early church there, archaeologists said in a recent paper."

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Christianity - The Elevator Pitch

As Christians, we should to spread the Gospel, the good news, right? This is something that also makes me happy, to talk about how the Gospel has transformed my mind and life, and restored peace and meaning to it. :innocent:

With people getting busier and busier, I believe it is good to have an “elevator pitch” ready for this. This is a marketing term for giving a one minute enthusiastic presentation which explains the essence of an idea, in this case Christianity. :glowingstar:

To share ideas and encourage inspiration, I want to ask you if you want to give me your “elevator pitches” for Christianity. How would you explain, in less than 200 words, what Christianity offers to us all? What would be your “elevator pitch” to do this? Please let me know. Thank you! :)

Confessing Their Sins...

Matthew 3:5-6
Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

You know, nowadays it seems there's a lot of talk, but little confessing of sins. You can talk about Jesus all you want, but if there's no conviction of sin which leads to confession of sin, how do you expect to get forgiveness of sin?
"If we CONFESS OUR SINS, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.' (1 John 1:9)

8,
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance

Again, there's a lot of talk, but very little said about repentance. John blasted the Pharisees when they came, because they were not showing fruits meet for repentance. You come as you are, but you confess and repent. You don't come with the attitude you're going to be saved in your sin, keep your sin, keep on sinning, get the forgiveness, and offer your sins before the LORD. The sins need cut off, rooted out, chopped away. As John said here:

10,
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

And Jesus preached repentance from the start of His ministry too:

4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

5:27-30
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Here we go, what was said earlier: cut it out. And here's one of those hard sayings of Jesus that unbelievers like to pick on. Does he mean to actually take out your eye or cut off your hand? Of course not. This is symbolic, to cut off whatever is offending. Don't put something in front of your eyes if it's gonna cause you to sin. Don't go places, or do things that will cause your hands to sin. Don't listen to things that are sinful.

Job 31:1
I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?
Psalm 101:2-3,
I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.
I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
Ecclesiastes 7:5,
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

Matt. 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

10:32-34
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Luke 6:26
"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets."

Daniel 9:4-5
And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments...

Marriage strained by constant health issues and miscarriages

Hi everyone,

No real question here, just a post to vent because I just can't talk to anyone else.

It's literally been years since I've posted on CF, and at that time I was well and truly single. In October 2021 I married my wife, who I loved and love. And counted my blessings. She was married before (from early 20's to early 30's). Me, not, and I've only had two other GF's and she's my only sexual partner. But since we got married, life has been down the darn toilet. Whereas most couples have a relatively easy marriage with some hard times, out started out hard from the outset. When we married, it wasn't the wedding we wanted (though still fun) because she had an injury and her dad cancer. Because of her injury we also knew we couldn't go on a honeymoon. That sucked, because though I never told her (as not her fault), I was a bit jealous that she got to have the wedding she wanted, go away on honeymoon and holidays with her first husband. But I let it go, because it's the big scheme of things irrelevant, because her operation for muscle tears were just two weeks after we got married, she'd heal up, then life is ours, for kids, family, honeymoon etc. Well, that's we're things went downhill:

- Operation happened, just for surgeon to say the real issue was a completely busted hip bone, and she'd have to wait at least a year to heal, before having a surgery to fix it. Aftermath of that:
- Over 2 years on, no honeymoon or even any holidays with my wife. Sex is/was also vanilla due to her injury. All of these things increasingly grated on me, as she got to do them with her ex-husband.
- Social life went downhill for both of us, as she'd feel too unwell and pained to see friends or my family. (Though we'd see hers often).
- She lost her independence as couldn't drive (or barely walk) and unable to work. So I became to sole earner since wedding day.
- Wife had (understandable) gradual mental/emotional decline, leading to depression and anger (including lashing out at me).
- We've gone financially backwards.
- Past two years, has me being the worker, and also essentially a carer for my wife and doing the vast majority of chores.
- I use to be fit and healthy due to exercise routine which I had to give up because too exhausted. And I'm also finding (through no fault of hers due to the past 2-3 years of injuries, pregnancies and treatments, not finding my wife as attractive to me as before we got married).
- Then at the beginning of last year, at the hip surgeons suggestion, we started trying for kids (he recommended before the surgery so to preserve implant). It happened very quickly for us. Suddenly everything (all of our struggles/trials) made sense, and we knew what our future was. We thought our child was a miracle. Then at 7 weeks in the womb, they died. To make matters worse, the obstetrician said it was an ecptopic pregnancy, and one of my wife tubes had to be removed (decreasing further fertility). Just for after the operation, for the doctor to say, they diagnosed wrong, and the baby was in the uterus the whole time.
- That just created a lot of extra grief and stress for us. So we went on the IVF wagon twice last year. Losing one baby and the other round not successful.
- After that, we got my wife's surgery, as she couldn't delay it any further. Both physically, mentally and emotionally. The surgeon said that after the implant/replacement, we could still have kids. The surgery did go well and showed real promise.
- In November last year, we had a "nice night". And fell pregnant. Very surprised as 6 weeks after surgery, and based on the obstetrician advice, our time had passed for that. We're now 11 weeks! This had made us hopeful again.
- Last week, my wife had an accident, and she believe she's fractured her operated hip implant. The pain is unbearable. Our first appointment with the obstetrician, is Thursday. Has been for over a month and looking forward to it. But no also, as imperative, we're also seeing the hip surgeon on that day. They have said that scans (that could hurt the baby) have to be done (and they know about the pregnancy) and that if it is a fracture, for my wife's health that needs to take priority. Rightly so and I want her to survive (she can't carry a child with a fractured/broken hip replacement). But they've made it clear that will likely kill the baby too. So for our second "miracle" baby, who we've seen a heartbeat for and little hands, things are not looking like they're coming out of this alive either way and both of us belive by the end of this week or next, they'll be dead. And with my wife losing everything past (nearly 3 years since injury), and how bad the pregnancy has been for her and with fertility level as well, it's unlikely we'll get another shot. My wife does need to rebuild herself and she feels nears the end of her tether.

I love my wife. She's been a darn superwoman with how much she's done. But we're also feeling life nothing good has been shown by God to us in this marriage. Whereas friends are either having kids, or if not (because of age) are getting rich and having romantic holidays together. If another operation needs to be done, that would also be another year of the wife having to recover. And honestly, after 2 years of getting the brutal end of her depressions, including calling me a loser and a failure (despite a good job and working hard at it and at home and my career suffering because of being a carer to her as well), once it's confirmed our baby is dead, I just don't see what God has given us through this marriage and for me to continue at it. I've just felt so let down past two years with a lot of sadness, and now I feel like the crescendo is about to happen.

Sorry for the long post. I don't actually expect anyone to really read it. But I can't talk to anyone about my true feelings, and this is the only way I felt like I've got room to express my feelings, anger, pointlessness and disappointment at my/our life married. Constant sacrifice by both of us for nothing. Particularly as it's all but confirmed to help my wife we'll have to kill out baby, that seemed like God's miracle to us (at last).
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Jimmy Swaggart Bible Study - Romans

i wonder if anyone here owns this book, and if so, what do you think of it? many years ago i read some excerpts from it and was very impressed. i'm thinking about ordering it, but it's over $50.

i bought a book he published about 10 or so years ago that has to do with the doctrine of the Cross, but that book was of no value to me at all. he repeated himself to the point of tedium and never made it clear exactly how i was supposed to apply it. (which i think tends to be very usual with Brother Jimmy's teaching.) but what i saw of his book on Romans was not like that.

How And Why Is It Better To Have Not Known The Way Than To Turn From It.

2 Peter 2:

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollution of the world

through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

they are again entangled in them and overcome,

the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

21 For it would have been better for them not to have known

the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn

from the holy commandment delivered to them.

Jesus will come like a THIEF in the NIGHT

Jesus spoke in Mat 24:

42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect."
Be ready for Jesus' second coming.

Paul repeated the warning in 1 Thessalonians 5:

1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. 2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.
Though we don't know the date of Jesus' second coming, when he comes, it should not surprise us.

Peter used the same imagery in 2 Peter 3:

10 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare.
Jesus warned the church in Sardis in Revelation 3:

2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
Be ready. Be on the alert.

Jesus exhorted everyone in Revelation 16:

15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”
Don't get caught exposed. Be diligent so you won't be surprised when Jesus comes like a thief in the night.
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Jacob you Worm. Israel you Maggot

The prophet Isaiah, who lived in Jerusalem in the eighth century BCE, gives us strength from the distance of generations: "Fear not, O worm Jacob, O men of Israel: I will help you —declares God—I your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel" (Isiah 41:14). There is a tradition in our ancient sources that Jacob's worm is the silkworm, that the third stage of its life cycle (after the egg and larvae stage) is the cocoon stage. The cocoon seems to be in a state of death and emptiness, but life is forming inside of it, and if we are patient and believe in its happy ending, we will see how at the end of the process a beautiful butterfly emerges from it and spreads its wings to the light.
The Jewish interpretation. Israel Hayom; January 29, 2024

The Christian interpretation:
Isaiah 41:8-20 But you, Israel My servant – Jacob whom I have chosen, the descendants of My friend Abraham. I have summoned you from the ends of the earth and called you My servants. Have no fear, for I am with you – I am your God. I shall strengthen you with My victorious right hand.
Now, all who defy you will be humiliated. They will be as nothing and will perish. Your enemies will no longer be found.

For I, the Lord your God will help you. Have no fear Jacob, you worm, Israel you maggot, your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel. See; I shall make of you a sharp threshing sledge. You will thresh and winnow the land and the wind will carry away all that pollutes the Holy Land. Then you will rejoice in the Lord.
The poor and needy look for water and find none. The Lord will not forsake them, He will open up springs in the hills and pools in the desert. All kinds of trees will flourish in the Land, so that everyone may see and understand that the Lord Himself has created this.


Isaiah 40:27-31 Jacob, why do you complain? You Israel, why do you say: my cause goes unheeded by my God? Do you not know, have you not heard – the Lord does not grow weary or faint and His understanding cannot be fathomed.
The Lord gives strength to the weary and those who trust in Him will soar as on eagles wings, they will run and not feel faint, march on and not be tired.

Ref. REB some verses abridged.

‘Israel My servant, the descendants of Jacob, whom I have chosen.
I have summoned My servants from the ends of the earth; out of every nation.’ The Lord’s righteous people, now every faithful Christian, called out of the nations after the Lord’s Day of vengeance. They will be helped and strengthened by their God. As we know from other prophesies and the New Testament, the Lord’s servants include peoples of every race, tribe, language and nation. We Christians are His people by faith.

‘Any who oppose them will be destroyed, by God’s victorious Right Hand’. The Lord Jesus will instigate this judgement/punishment of the nations; Psalms 83, Psalms 110:5-6, Luke 3:16-17, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Micah 7:10, by sending fire from the sun.

‘Jacob you worm, Israel you maggot’ The Lord has a sense of humour! The people of all the 12 tribes are unworthy, but God will fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs through their descendants who believe in God by faith; Galatians 3:26-29 and all who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus.

‘The storm wind sent by the Lord, will remove all that pollutes the holy Land’, This refers to the Day of the Lord’s wrath, a terrible worldwide devastation by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7

‘The Lord will provide water and the Land will flourish, all will acknowledge the Lords hand in this’. Once again it will be all habitable and fertile. Ezekiel 25:5-7, Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 25:9, Amos 9:13, Isaiah 51:3, Isaiah 49:19

The poor and needy”, This is a description of His people, when they first enter the Land. ‘The Lord will give them strength, they will march into their heritage and not be weary’. Psalms 107:1-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 31:7-14, Psalms 68:24-27

Be patient, Israel, God is in control. Psalms 37:5, Jeremiah 23:24
Put your trust in the Lord, He will help and strengthen you. 2 Corinthians 6:1-2
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Saved To The Uttermost

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him,

since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Uttermost: panteles [G3838]* from pas [3956] fully and completely;

*see second post.

as in:

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things G3956 new.

And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

and telos [5056] to the end, as in

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures

to the end G5056 shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 3:

14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence

steadfast to the end
,

15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Hebrews 6:

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those

by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;

8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation,

though we speak in this manner.

10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name,

in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end,

12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.



He always lives to make intercession for them.

This involves the response of those who are led by the Spirit

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received

the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ,

if indeed we suffer with Him
, that we may also be glorified together.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for

as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession

for the saints according to the will of God
.

Florida Bills Would Ban Civilian Police Oversight Boards


Two bills advancing through the Florida Legislature would ban cities and counties from forming civilian police oversight boards and dissolve already-existing boards.

The legislation, House Bill 601 and its companion Senate Bill 576, would make it unlawful for a county or municipal government to pass ordinances related to civilian oversight of police misconduct investigations or the handling of misconduct complaints against law enforcement officers.

Currently, the bills have passed several committees, and the Tallahassee Democrat reports they have the support of Republican majorities in both chambers, as well as influential Florida law enforcement groups.

The bill's text says its purpose is to create a uniform process for how police departments handle misconduct complaints against officers, but it would also leave police departments to hold themselves accountable and eliminate 21 civilian police oversight boards operating throughout Florida.
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Finland's Presidential elections 2024

Today was the official election day for Finland's next president, so boring news for most of you.

Polls closed at 20:00 local time and the counting has began and as of me posting this, 84,8% of the votes have been counter and we are going into the second round in a few weeks.

The two candidates with the most votes and going ahead are Alexander Stubb (27,3%) and Pekka Haavisto (25,8%).


Will put some details of the two candidates if anyone is interested or talk about Finnish elections in general.

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Would you give money to Mr Trump if he called for donations to cover his $83 million civil fine?


Multi Billionaire Mr Trump has form for asking regular working Americans to donate to his Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee.

"Please make a contribution – of truly any amount – to defend our movement from the never-ending witch hunts and WIN the WHITE HOUSE in 2024," said an email sent by a Trump fundraising group called the Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee.


If he does so again for his current financial woes will you step up to help the multi billionaire pay his $83 million fine?
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3 US troops killed, 25 injured in drone attack in Jordan

Three U.S. service members were killed and 25 injured Sunday in a one-way drone attack at a small U.S. base in northeast Jordan, near the Syria border, U.S. Central Command announced. These were the first U.S. fatalities in months of strikes against American forces in the Middle East by Iran-backed militias amid the Israel-Hamas war.

The attack is another escalation of the hostilities between the U.S. and enemies in the Middle East following the Hamas attack on Israel on Oct. 7.


CAN CHRISTIANS ATTEND GAY WEDDINGS?

To update the famous comment of Leon Trotsky, you may not be interested in the sexual revolution, but the sexual revolution is interested in you. Some of us are still privileged enough to be partly sheltered from this revolution. I count myself as one, along with those whose detachment from real-life pastoral situations apparently qualifies them to sell political pedagogy to others. But as the push among the progressive political class to dismantle traditional sexual mores continues apace, it is harder and harder to find a pastor or a priest who has not faced a difficult question from congregants about Christian obedience and their livelihood. Only last week a pastor friend told me of a member of his church who, as a manager of a business, has been ordered to integrate the bathrooms and is now faced with complaints from women staff who feel their safety and privacy have been compromised. It’s easy to decry right-wing scaremongering in the abstract, far more difficult to give advice to real people who have to make decisions that could cost them their careers.

The sexual revolution has revolutionized everything, to the point where questions that once had simple answers have become complicated. For instance, the question “Can I attend a gay wedding?” comes up with increasing frequency and is proving less and less easy to answer, as Bethel McGrew’s closing paragraphs in her recent World column indicate. It is not hard to guess what reasons a Christian might give for attending a gay wedding: a desire to indicate to the couple that one does not hate them, or a wish to avoid causing offense or hurt. But if either carries decisive weight in the decision, then something has gone awry. A refusal to attend might well be motivated by hatred of the couple (though in such circumstances, an invitation would seem an unlikely event) but it does not have to be so. To consider a declined invitation necessarily a sign of hatred is to adopt the notion of “hate” as a mere refusal to affirm. That is our secular age’s understanding, and not that of the Christian faith. A refusal to attend might also cause offense, but to make the giving of offense itself into a moral category is to replace moral categories of right and wrong with aesthetic categories of taste. The latter should always be subordinate to the former in the realm of ethical questions.

There are also obvious reasons why a Christian should never attend a gay wedding. Many wedding liturgies, including that of the Book of Common Prayer, require the officiant to ask early in the service if anyone present knows any reason why the couple should not be joined together in matrimony. A Christian is at that point obliged to speak up. I would hazard a guess that such an intervention would be far more offensive than simply refusing to be at the service.

Continued below.

Salvation prayer request

Good day, I'm asking for prayer for the salvation of Andrew Blanchard, Palmatee Blanchard and their son, the Yee Shong Family, Dulah, Static, Chan, Claudia Creese, Anil Gunness, Kamo, Anthony, Carla Creese, Andy Singh, Barber Brent, Kyle Clarke, Verne Titte, Shane Alleyne, Josiah Smith, Vikash Singh, Asahel Robinson, Paula Mae Weeks, Yahya Sinwar and Abubakar Shekau. Thank you for all your prayer.

A disappointing Christological homily at Guildford Cathedral, and the importance of stressing the deity of Christ

I particularly like Guildford Cathedral for their music program, and was excited last week to hear a Christological sermon by the celebrant.

However, on hearing it, I was disappointed, because rather than stressing the deity of Christ, she managed to inadvertently imply Arianism, through two errors: stating that the Gospel of John chapter 1 asserts that Jesus Christ was created, which is utterly false, and this has the effect of negating one of the most important proof-texts of Christianity against the false Arian and Unitarian religions, and also by failing at any point in her sermon to refer to our Lord as God, or as God Incarnate, which I regarded as a grave omission.

Now, she did correctly assert that anyone could become a Christian in the early church, but she failed to mention that not anyone could become a Christian while retaining their existing occupation. Specifically, no one who was employed as a gladiator or trainer or keeper of gladiators, or as an actor (for the theatre in the Roman Empire was exceedingly lewd; it was not until the era of playwrights such as William Shakespeare that the theatre became respectable), or as a teacher of Hellenic philosophy, or as a prostitute, could be baptized without first renouncing their profession and obtaining a more legitimate form of employment, according to the Apostolic Canons (I think; it is among the ancient canons, and I can look up exactly which ones if desired, and quote them). I suspect she was unaware of this fact as alas very few people, including clergy, have ever bothered to read a compendium of the canon laws of the early church such as the Pedalion (Rudder), which contains all of the canonical legislation of Eastern Orthodoxy, which consists predominantly of Patristic canons from the first millenium and differs from that of Oriental Orthodoxy in that it includes the canons of Chalcedon, the Quinisext Council (also known as the Council of Trullo) and the Second Council of Nicaea, and from early Roman Catholicism in that the Roman Church never accepted the validity of the Quinisext Council or its canonical legislation, and this was one of the earliest signs of a rift between the Eastern and Western churches. Since that time, the Roman church has issued its own compendiums of canon law that supercede the ancient canons, something which I greatly disagree with as I believe the canons of the ancient Ecumenical Synods are an integral part of those councils, such as the Council of Nicaea, and cannot simply be set aside without deprecating the council as a whole.

In viewing this sermon, however, the main problem was the priest failing to refer to Jesus Christ as God, or God incarnate. Indeed it was only the recitation of the Nicene Creed, which not everyone understands correctly, which ensured Christological correctness.

As a secondary consideration she made the popular but unproven assertion that the Apocalypse of St. John, or Revelation was not written by St. John the Apostle, but this belief is extremely widespread in Anglicanism, with the author of Revelation often referred to as St. John the Divine (of course, some Anglicans who are more invested in the traditions of the early church and who believe that the Beloved Disciple wrote all of the Johannine books, including Revelation, the three Epistles and the Gospel, refer to St. John the Apostle and Beloved Disciple aS St. John the Divine, which literally means St. John the Theologian, for the word Divine applied to a person or group of person, such as the group of early High Church Anglicans known as the Caroline Divines, literally means Theologian, and the Eastern Orthodox venerate St. John as St. John the Theologian.* However, while I find it annoying when people assert that the author of Revelation is not the same as the author of the Gospel of St. John, considering that there is no actual proof, and the subtle stylistic variations could be caused by many things other than different authorship, but rather, this is essentially a guess made by practitioners of Higher Criticism, if she had only made this assertion I would not have complained.

Ultimately what really bothered me was her assertion that the Prologue of the Gospel of John asserts that Jesus Christ was created, which is entirely false, for it specifically does not say that, and I hope she simply misspoke and this was a flub, as opposed to her actual belief, and also her failure to compensate for this potential incitement to Arianism by failing to refer to Jesus Christ as God, God the Son or God Incarnate, or indeed to begin her sermon with the Trinitarian formula “In the name of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost” which many preachers use. It is insufficient and confusing for the laity when they are only told that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and are told that he is divine as well as human, but not fully God and fully Human, since the word divine, since divine as an adjective does not unambiguously identify its subject as God.

Rather, in the case of Jesus Christ, His actual deity along with his perfectly assumed humanity must be stressed in order to ensure that the Incarnational and Trinitarian reality which is at the beating evangelical heart of Christianity, the very essence of the Gospel being, to quote St. Athanasius, that God became man so that man could become god, that is to say, that we could by the grace of the Holy Spirit attain godliness and overcome our sinful passions, and enjoy eternal life in fellowship with God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and furthermore, we are called to make our relations with other humans an icon of the Holy Trinity. The Trinity is vital because it is an eternal union of perfect love between three persons.

Here is a link to the Eucharistic liturgy, which contains the Homily immediately following the three Scripture lessons:


*Indeed he is one of only three persons who the Eastern Orthodox venerate as theologians, the others being St. Gregory of Nazianzus, the friend of St. Basil the Great and along with St. Basil and his younger brother St. Gregory of Nyssa, one of the three most important Patristic figures known as the Cappadocians, and St. Symeon the New Theologian, a 13th century Athonite monk who was instrumental in a revival and popularization of Hesychasm, and whose writings were later defended by St. Gregory the Theologian against a false accusation of Nestorianism by Barlaam.

  • Poll
DID OR DO YOU SPEAK PIG LATIN?

Do you speak pig Latin?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sometimes i snort when i laugh

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I went to school for it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It's difficult to learn

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't think i can do it now

    Votes: 1 20.0%

I was wondering if it might be a NO NO now ? It was fun when we were kids. Is it something that is common everywhere?

Slaves of Sin? Or Slaves of God?

“But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
“For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:17-23 ESV)

Now, these words are being addressed to those who were once slaves to sin, meaning that they are no longer living in slavery (addiction, bondage) to sin. Sin is no longer their practice, but now righteousness and obedience to the Lord and to his New Covenant commands are their practice. Now they are slaves of righteousness. And the standard of teaching to which they are committed is what Jesus taught and what his NT apostles taught, which is not what is predominantly being taught in America today.

Yet, we are still human beings living in flesh bodies in a fallen world with all sorts of evils and temptations everywhere you look, pretty much. And so many people today are teaching a diluted, altered, and corrupted gospel message, which also corrupts the grace of God. And so even those who have been walking faithfully to the Lord in obedience to him may be tempted to be drawn into false teachings which may make no (or little) demands for holy living and for walks of obedience to our Lord’s commands.

And so the truth of the gospel is being reinforced here. Just as once we presented our members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, leading to more lawlessness, we are now to present our members (bodies, minds, hearts, souls) as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For Jesus died on that cross so that we would be crucified with him in death to sin and raised with him to walk in newness of life in him, no longer to live as slaves to sin but now as slaves to God and to his righteousness.

For when we were slaves of sin, we were free in regard to righteousness. Do you understand what that is saying? We cannot be slaves to sin and to righteousness at the same time. It is one or the other. Either sin is our practice, and what we obey, in practice, or righteousness and obedience to our Lord are what we practice. So we are not righteous in the sight of God if we are still slaves to sin. The two don’t mix. And this doesn’t mean we are perfect and that we never fail, but that sin is no longer our practice.

And then really pay close attention to verses 21-23, for many people are teaching Romans 6:23 out of context, and they are making it say what it does not say, if taught properly in context. For the free gift of God is not given to those who are still walking in sin. For God’s gift of grace to us is not freedom to keep walking in sin, only now without having to feel guilty. For what does this say? If we are still living as slaves (addicted) to sin, the end of those things is death, not life eternal with God.

But now that we have, IF we have, been set free from our slavery to sin, and we have, IF we have, become slaves of God, the fruit that we get leads to sanctification (holiness), and its end is eternal life with God. So when this says that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord, we have to read that verse in the context of the whole of Romans 6, and in particular in the context of verses 21-23 which makes it very clear what it all means. If sin is our practice, it will lead to death.

So, we don’t just pray a prayer or confess belief in Jesus Christ and now all our sins are forgiven (past, present, and future), and so now we have heaven guaranteed us when we die, and it can’t be taken away from us, but regardless of how we live. For the free gift of God’s grace instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions (lust), and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives while we wait for our Lord’s return. For God’s grace frees us from our slavery to sin so we now become slaves of righteousness.

So the free gift of God, although we do nothing to earn or to deserve it in our own flesh, is not without cost. It is not without rules and regulations which we must follow. For the gift is deliverance from our slavery (addiction) to sin, and it is empowerment of God’s Spirit to now live in moral purity, honesty, integrity, faithfulness, and in obedience to our Lord’s commands (New Covenant). The gift is not freedom to keep living in sin while claiming Jesus as Lord and heaven as our eternal destiny. So please see this!

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-11; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:23-31; 1 Co 10:1-22; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

Just a Closer Walk with Thee

Hymn lyrics by Anonymous/Unknown
Music by American Melody

“For indeed He was crucified because of weakness, yet He lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you” (2 Co. 13:4 NASB).


I am weak, but Thou art strong;
Jesus, keep me from all wrong;
I’ll be satisfied as long
As I walk, let me walk close to Thee.

Through this world of toil and snares,
If I falter, Lord, who cares?
Who with me my burden shares?
None but Thee, dear Lord, none but Thee.

When my feeble life is o’er,
Time for me will be no more;
Guide me gently, safely o’er
To Thy kingdom shore, to Thy shore.

Just a closer walk with Thee,
Grant it, Jesus, is my plea,
Daily walking close to Thee,
Let it be, dear Lord, let it be.

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Are We to Sin Because We are Under Grace?

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?” (Romans 6:12-16 ESV)

When you read the Scriptures, it is good if you can read them in context. It is also good if you could read them with a willing heart and mind to hear the Lord speak truth to your heart, even if that truth conflicts with something you have always been taught previously. For we have all had teachers, and we have listened to preachers’ sermons, but not all of them teach the truth of the Scriptures. Some of them naively teach what is wrong, because that is what they were always taught. But others deliberately alter (corrupt) the truth of the Scriptures for the full purpose to deceive and to lead astray.

Now the most popular version of the gospel of our salvation being taught and largely accepted today teaches that all we have to do is to make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ one time in our lives and now all our sins are forgiven (past, present, and future), heaven is now secured for us for eternity, and nothing and no one can take that away from us, but regardless of how we live. Even if they do teach holy living, it is usually optional, i.e. recommended but not required. But many are teaching that we do not have to repent of (forsake) our sins and follow Jesus in obedience for salvation.

Therefore, today’s generational and market-driven “churches” (businesses) here in America are a blend of good and evil and truth and lies, the same as what many of them are teaching. Good is being spoken of as evil, and evil is being spoken of as good. Teaching repentance, obedience, and holy living is regarded as “negative” and “judgmental,” while the broad road that leads to destruction, which is the “easy” way, is being raised up as the true way to God and to salvation from sin and eternal life with God. And that way does not demand death to sin nor walks of obedience to our Lord, nor holy living.

So, the result of that is that we have many professers of faith in Jesus Christ here in America who are living no different from those who make no professions of faith in Christ, or much worse, if truth be told. For we have many (more than not) who are still living in slavery (addiction) to sin but are being coddled in their sins instead of confronted, and instead of facing church discipline. And so we have many professing Christians who are living in sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, lying, cheating, deceiving, stealing, slandering, and treating others with hate and abuse.

Are we all perfect people? No! We won’t be absolutely perfect until Jesus Christ returns and he takes his faithful bride to be with him for eternity, which is when our salvation will be complete. But we are to be the holy people of God who are denying self and dying to sin, as our practice, and who are following our Lord in obedience to his commands (New Covenant), in practice. For if sin is what we practice, and not righteousness, and not obedience to our Lord, it will lead to death, not to life eternal, and we will not inherit eternal life with God, regardless of what our lips profess.

So, are we still under the law? Now, in context, this is a reference to the Old Covenant liturgical, ceremonial, sacrificial, purification, and dietary laws and restrictions, including circumcision. We are not under that law. But God never did away with his moral laws. They are taught us all throughout the New Covenant teachings. And obedience to our Lord’s commands under the New Covenant is required for our salvation from sin and eternal life with God. And this passage in Romans 6 makes that abundantly clear. For if sin is what we obey, it leads to death. But if obedience is what we obey, it leads to righteousness, and its end is eternal life (see verses 22-23).

Therefore, we are no longer to allow sin to reign in our mortal bodies, to make us obey its passions (lusts). For we are slaves of the one whom we obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience (to God), which leads to righteousness, and sanctification, and its end is eternal life with God. And other passages of Scripture make it very clear that if sin is what we obey, if it is what we practice (in addiction), and if holy living and walks of obedience to our Lord and to his New Covenant commands are not what we obey, we will not inherit eternal life with God, regardless of what we say.

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-11; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 10:23-31; 1 Co 10:1-22; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

As the Deer

By Martin J. Nystrom
Based off Psalm 42:1


As the deer panteth for the water
So my soul longeth after You
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

You alone are my strength, my shield
To You alone may my spirit yield
You alone are my heart's desire
And I long to worship You

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Financial Miracle!

Hey fantastic news! I just got word that I will be getting more money on a regular basis and it is enough for rent at a nice apartment in the Harrisburg area! I have been in my current apartment for probably 5 years and I have been seeking to move out ASAP and it looks like I am finally able to do it! I have been living right in the pit of hell here 24/7, there is an extremely evil presence in the complex and a drug problem here. I smell pot smoke coming from the other units in my building every night and I also smell it coming out of people's windows when I go out for a walk, lots of people here are doing drugs. Every day has been a huge spiritual battle, I have been doing spiritual warfare over the complex every day and praying for the salvation of all tenants every day. It looks like I am finally able to get out of here and I will be able to afford an upgrade to my living conditions and move into a nicer complex! I may be able to get in to Alpine Heights apartments in Hershey which is my dream location, it is back in the woods behind Hershey Med and is beautiful and nice and peaceful! The extra money was a miracle, I can now afford to move out right away! I am on the waiting list for at least 10 local complexes and have been on them for years but the housing market is terrible and still nothing has come up, it could have still been years before I could move out without the extra money! Previously I could only afford section 8 housing which is very low-income but now I can afford a normal apartment which will open up a lot more doors for me!

Whosoever believes into Him should not perish, but have eternal life....

Peace in Christ.

Our Lord (in Heaven...the mountain where He sets at the right hand of God) opens His mouth to teach us (His disciples….His learners). We are to take heed on how we hear.

Mat 5:1-3 KJV
(1) And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
(2) And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,


Happy (blessed)are the poor in spirit/breath.

Those who will hear His voice today will respond to His teachings with few words. They will use their breath sparingly….being quick to hear and slow to speak (being “poor in spirit/breath”). Theirs is the kingdom of God.

(3) Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Happy (blessed) are the meek as they will hear and humbly receive what He says. They will inherit the earth. They will continue to live in this earth to inherit it. They shall not die from this earth as they will continue to live to the coming age.

Mat 5:5 KJV
(5) Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Again, whosoever believes into the Son should not perish (mortally die) but has eternal life.

Think about Caleb and Joshua (when reading about “eternal life”) who continued their time in the desert and were the only ones to have inherited the promised land while the others died off.

Caleb and Joshua were left alive and remained upon the earth. They LIVED still. They had “eternal life” so to speak.

Num 14:38 KJV
(38) But Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of the men that went to search the land, lived still.


The unbelievers among Israel perished in the desert. They did not have “eternal life”.

We who believe into Jesus also shall continue to live here on this earth (with His eternal life) in this present evil age (the wilderness) until and into the age to come when He shall then raise us up to be rulers of this earth with Him.

We shall have an eternal or an “age-lasting” life as we shall continue to live in this earth to inherit it.

John 3:15-18 KJV
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


He that believes on Him is not condemned (not being condemned to the death of the mortal body). Judgment: The wages of the sin is the death. They will continue to live like Caleb and Joshua to inherit this earth in the age to come. They will not die.

He that does not believe into Him perishes from this earth. They do not continue to live (like Caleb) to enter the promised earth….to inherit this earth.

(18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

“Caleb” means “faithful or wholehearted” or “dog” also. A living “dog” (Caleb) is better than a dead lion (a dead church ruler who had no understanding of the gospel).

Again, he that believes (Caleb) on God that sent the Son has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation (judgment) but is passed from death unto life. This is a here-and-now thing. Death is rendered idle for those who pass from death unto life now in this earth.

John 5:24 KJV
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto lif
e.

Those who perish from this earth have not truly believed into Him as they do not understand the gospel…the good news of Jesus Christ who has abolished death (rendering it idle).

2Ti 1:10 KJV
(10) But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


If the gospel (good news) is hid, it is hid to them that are lost….that is, PERISHING.

They are perishing away in their mortal bodies from this earth as they do not have any understanding of the true gospel of our Savior Jesus Christ.

The “god of this world”…that is, the god of this AGE…has blinded the minds of those which do not believe.

This is talking about so-called “religious rulers” that handle the word of God deceitfully.

If they do not understand the true gospel, then those whom they are preaching to surely are not hearing it…and so all of them perish in this present evil age.

2Co 4:3-4
(3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost (PERISHING):
(4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


The enemies of the cross of Christ serve for their own bellies only and whose end is destruction (the destruction of their mortal bodies from this earth).

Their “god” is their belly as that is what they are only “serving” for in their preaching. They are only serving themselves and are not truly feeding the flock of God.

They have no understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ as a result as they are not looking for the Savior to change their vile bodies to be fashioned like unto His. They preach that we have to “die and go to Heaven” and have completely missed the meaning of the good news.

Php 3:18-21 KJV
(18) (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
(19) Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
(20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
(21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


It has been a “day of slaughter” ….the flock of the slaughter…as the rich “pastors” only feed themselves while rejoicing in their hearts that their earthly needs are being met through “preaching”. The beating of the drums of their rejoicing hearts drowns out the cries of those they are supposedly “feeding”.

They condemn and kill the Just One as they prevent the eternal life of the Just One (the Prince of Life) from being made manifest in the mortal flesh of those whom they are deceiving.

The sheep are perishing under their “care” as they have no knowledge being given them. His people perish from this earth without knowledge.

Jas 5:5-6 KJV
(5) Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
(6) Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.


The rich pastors follow in the footsteps of Judas (a great multitude) as they come to take the true Jesus from those they are deceiving with the “kiss” of the flattering lips. They come to cause divisions among us (swords).

Mat 26:47-50 KJV
(47) And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
(48) Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

(49) And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
(50) And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.


They come forth to us as ministers of righteousness….as messengers of light (coming with lanterns and torches….sources of light). Their end (destruction) is according to their works.

Joh 18:2-3 KJV
(2) And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.
(3) Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

2Co 11:13-15 KJV
(13) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
(14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Satan had entered Judas after the “sop” …. meaning “crumb, morsel, mouthful”. Those who follow after Judas have become Satan’s “ministers” by the receiving of the “sop” that was dipped. They serve only to feed their own bellies with the “mouthful” that they receive.

John 13:26-27 KJV
(26) Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
(27) And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.


They mind earthly things (what to eat, what to drink, what to wear) as they eat the “bread” of others who have labored hard for it (the sop was dipped).

Gen 3:19 KJV
(19) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

The true apostles (sent) of Christ did not eat any man’s bread for nothing but did labor and travail night and day so as not to be chargeable to any.

2Th 3:6-12 KJV
(6) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
(7) For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
(8) Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day
, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:


The original apostles did forgo this power to receive the bread from others and so we are to follow their example. Now it is a commandment to work with our own hands and eat our own bread so that we can understand the true gospel and properly “feed” the flock of God.

(9) Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
(10) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
(11) For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
(12) Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.


By working with our hands to support our own earthly necessities, we shall then be able to feed the flock of God. Paul (who was a tentmaker) showed us this by example and we are to be with him in this.

Act 20:26-28 KJV
(26) Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
(27) For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Act 20:33-35 KJV
(33) I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
(34) Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
(35) I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring
ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

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