Does Theistic Evolution Honor and Glorify God.

[Diamond7]

I know that micro-evolution does indeed happen. However, what the evolutionists try to get people to believe is something that is more accurately called macro-evolution.

Yes I believe this has to do with fine tuning each part to the eco system. Esp when people come up out of africa and move from one eco system to another. Going north like that means having to have clothing to stay warm. God showed man and women how to use animal skin to stay warm. My son is camping this weekend and he has an old down sleeping bag that his brother use to love to use. I use to love to wear down jackets in the winter to keep warm. My dad did not like them. They wanted to dress us up in fancy clothing to make us look good. Staying warm was not an objective for them. From the beginning they were making clothing for show but God was giving them clothing to keep warm in the colder climates. Remember picture day at school when everyone was expected to dress up to look good for the pictures.

This is a good case of science helping us to understand our Bible. They have drawings of Adam and Eve wearing leaves. Which is absurd. They used the fiber from the fig tree to make clothing in much the say way they make clothing today. Only they did not have the machinery we have today. Even 100 years ago it was all labor intense. Makes you wonder what sort of mental gymnastics people need to support their translation and interpretation of the Bible rather than to gain the better understanding that God wants us to have.

 

[Diamond7]

I do not believe it is a good idea to rely upon science for a better understanding of Genesis 1

You can sweep it under the carpet of you want. The Hebrew people have done a lot of research on DNA because there is so much inbreeding and that results in a lot of illness. So they are looking for cures and learning all they can about the DNA that is in them. I have studied this for longer than I have studied the Bible. Around 40,000 years ago we find sowing needles and fish hooks made out of bone. As a result they were able to come up out of Africa into Mesopotamia. This was an area that Neanderthal was a part of. They settled in the area between the Euphrates river and the Tigris river. All of the Persian Gulf was produced by Noah's flood. Right now a lot of water is being diverted and alot of old sites are showing up for archeology to study.

Drought in Iraq Reveals 3,400-Year-Old City

Archaeologists raced against time to map the once-submerged ancient metropolis

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Vambram]

I am not sweeping anything under the carpet. To suggest otherwise is a misunderstanding of the YEC point of view.... and I also believe that OEC is a misinterpretation of all of the various passages of Scripture in the OT and the NT that teach about Adam & Eve, the original Sin, Noah and the Great flood which covered the entire earth. I shall always use the inspired Word of God written by Moses, quoted by Jesus, and written by the prophets in the OT as well as written by the apostles in the NT. Although I have a very good understanding of science, and I am very confident that YEC is thoroughly supported by scientific evidence. However, I shall continue to always lean upon the Scriptures to believe what was given to us by inspiration of God.

 

[Vambram]

Yes I believe this has to do with fine tuning each part to the eco system. Esp when people come up out of africa and move from one eco system to another. Going north like that means having to have clothing to stay warm. God showed man and women how to use animal skin to stay warm. My son is camping this weekend and he has an old down sleeping bag that his brother use to love to use. I use to love to wear down jackets in the winter to keep warm. My dad did not like them. They wanted to dress us up in fancy clothing to make us look good. Staying warm was not an objective for them. From the beginning they were making clothing for show but God was giving them clothing to keep warm in the colder climates. Remember picture day at school when everyone was expected to dress up to look good for the pictures.

This is a good case of science helping us to understand our Bible. They have drawings of Adam and Eve wearing leaves. Which is absurd. They used the fiber from the fig tree to make clothing in much the say way they make clothing today. Only they did not have the machinery we have today. Even 100 years ago it was all labor intense. Makes you wonder what sort of mental gymnastics people need to support their translation and interpretation of the Bible rather than to gain the better understanding that God wants us to have.
View attachment 345904

I agree that Genesis 3 does not exactly say what Adam & Eve, the very first two humans on earth, used to cover themselves after they ate of the forbidden fruit from the forbidden tree.
By the way, the methods and assumptions used to attempt to date fossils to hundreds of millions of years are based upon false assumptions.

 

[Diamond7]

By the way, the methods and assumptions used to attempt to date fossils to hundreds of millions of years are based upon false assumptions.

Does not matter, the fact remains that everything is in a long slow process of entropy according to the second law of thermodynamics.. God showed me in a dream the big crunch, that the universe would all come back together again at some point in time. This is not as popular of a theory in science right now but that can change at anytime.

The fact that we have fossils at all is a miracle to me. Somehow it is all a part of the cycle of life.

 

[Vambram]

@Diamond7

Do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first two humans? Do you believe that Adam & Eve were the result of theistic evolution?
Many scientists believe humans evolved into life well over many many thousands upon thousands of years ago. Is. that your belief as well? Most evolutionists believe that homo sapien evolved from their ancestors in Africa. How does the following article about human evolution fit into your theistic evolution beliefs... if theistic evolution can find some agreement with the article here from the Smithsonian Institute?

An Evolutionary Timeline of Homo Sapiens

Scientists share the findings that helped them pinpoint key moments in the rise of our species

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Vambram]

Does not matter, the fact remains that everything is in a long slow process of entropy according to the second law of thermodynamics.. God showed me in a dream the big crunch, that the universe would all come back together again at some point in time. This is not as popular of a theory in science right now but that can change at anytime.

The fact that we have fossils at all is a miracle to me. Somehow it is all a part of the cycle of life.

I believe that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics actually does support scientific evidence for YEC.

 

[stevevw]

• Theistic evolution acknowledges that God’s creative process may involve gradual development over vast periods.
• Rather than seeing evolution as random or purposeless, theistic evolutionists perceive it as part of God’s ongoing work.

There is nothing better than to worship, praise, honor and glorify God. When we see what God has done all the more we want to honor Him.

I think it does as theistic evolutions allows us to understand the complex processes that go into Gods creation. That they don't just pop out of thin air but there is a methed and order to Gods creation.

I think thats more impressive. We can see the finished product from the outside and though beautiful and awe inspiring understanding the order involved, seeing the DNA codes, the quantum physics, how all the parts work together in such orchestrated ways that produce life we can know a deeper level of Gods creative force which is even more amazing.

I have heard that some atheist scientist in coming to understand the inner workings of life have come to believe in God just be seeing the beauty and complexity and craftmanship in the order of life.

 

[Diamond7]

I have heard that some atheist scientist in coming to understand the inner workings of life have come to believe in God just be seeing the beauty and complexity and craftmanship in the order of life.

That is what Paul says. People are without excuse because creation proclaims the glory of God.

 

[Vambram]

10 dangers of theistic evolution

The idea that God would use the atheistic process of evolution is the ultimate oxymoron.

creation.com

Perils of Theistic Evolution

The dangers inherent in arguing for theistic evolution are legion, including the subversion of key doctrines, a denial of Christ

creation.com

Why I rejected ‘theistic evolution’

Theistic evolution is a significant threat to the Christian church. It undermines the very foundation of the Christian faith and causes people to doubt the truth of Scripture.

creation.com

Theistic evolution and the doctrine of death

Theistic evolution requires the horridly cruel works of nature and death, the last enemy, producing convoluted bible readings and compromise.

creation.com

 

[Diamond7]

10 dangers of theistic evolution​

I have seen some strawman arguments before but this one really takes the cake. They do not understand how God works though evolution to accomplish His plan and purpose. They are without excuse because God can clearly be seen in His creation Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

 

[Diamond7]

Do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first two humans?

Do you mean Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. I believe there were many, many, many firsts in Eden with Adam and Eve. So many that all the books in the world could not contain them. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things. If they were all written in books, I don't suppose there would be room enough in the whole world for all the books." They were the first man, first women, first husband, first wife. But I do not think they were the first male and the first female. Sex goes back before primates, all the way back to what I call pond scum. So I am still trying to figure out how Eve came from Adam and why she is the one to carry the baby.

 

[scotteugenehamill]

Young earth creationism is, in my opinion, one of the biggest threats to growing Christianity. I'm no proponent of Darwinian evolution but to say the earth is only 6000 years old is demonstrably false. The Bible itself doesn't state the age of the earth and the scientific evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

 

[Vambram]

Do you mean Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. I believe there were many, many, many firsts in Eden with Adam and Eve. So many that all the books in the world could not contain them. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things. If they were all written in books, I don't suppose there would be room enough in the whole world for all the books." They were the first man, first women, first husband, first wife. But I do not think they were the first male and the first female. Sex goes back before primates, all the way back to what I call pond scum. So I am still trying to figure out how Eve came from Adam and why she is the one to carry the baby.

Would you like to answer the rest of the questions that were in my post you quoted?

Genesis 2:18-25
This is a clear passage of Scripture showing where Eve came from.

 

[Vambram]

I have seen some strawman arguments before but this one really takes the cake. They do not understand how God works though evolution to accomplish His plan and purpose. They are without excuse because God can clearly be seen in His creation Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Genesis 2:4-15

John 1:1-5

Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 1:15-17

Romans 5:12-19

 

[BobRyan]

Look at Darwin. His job was to map the world. But evolutionary theory came out of that.

I have a lot of world maps that don't say that humans came from apes. (N. Alese)

https://www.science.org/content/article/ancient-infant-ape-skull-sheds-light-ancestor-all-humans-and-living-apes

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 2:4-15

John 1:1-5

Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 1:15-17

Romans 5:12-19

Yep - instead of "And from ape God made man" -- the bible says man was made directly from the dust of the earth on day 6 of creation week.

Interesting that the 7 day week of Genesis 1 is the same as the seven day week at Sinai Ex 20:8-11 according to the author that wrote both texts - and gave them to the same contemporary audience.

 

[Diamond7]

Do you believe that Adam and Eve were the first two humans? Do you believe that Adam & Eve were the result of theistic evolution?
Many scientists believe humans evolved into life well over many many thousands upon thousands of years ago. Is. that your belief as well? Most evolutionists believe that homo sapien evolved from their ancestors in Africa. How does the following article about human evolution fit into your theistic evolution beliefs... if theistic evolution can find some agreement with the article here from the Smithsonian Institute?

Science Adam (chapter one) came before Bible Adam in chapter two. Yes Adam and Eve were the result of theistic evolution. I believe day six was 125,000,000 years ago. Day one 8 billion, day two 4 billion, day three 2 billion, day four 1 billion day five 500 million, day 6 250 million. So we know God created man on day six and then he rested on day seven. 125 million years ago. So we can look to see what happened.

125 million years ago, during the Cretaceous period, several significant events shaped the Earth’s history:

1. Flowering Plants Emerged: Angiosperms, or flowering plants, began to leave their mark in the fossil record. Although genetics suggests that this group is even older, scientists generally place the oldest uncontested angiosperm fossils at around 125 to 130 million years ago. These plants played a crucial role in shaping ecosystems and supporting diverse animal life 12.
2. Dramatic Fossil Discovery: A remarkable 125 million-year-old fossil captures a moment in time when a carnivorous mammal attacked a large plant-eating dinosaur. This discovery provides evidence that mammals not only targeted smaller dinosaurs but also took on larger ones—an intriguing insight into ancient ecological interactions 3.
3. Archaefructus liaoningensis: Fossils of Archaefructus liaoningensis, the earliest known flowering plant, were found in China and are approximately 125 million years old. These fossils provide valuable information about the early evolution of flowering plants 4.

Man came out of africa 40,000 years ago. We see fish hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. They needed clothing to come up out of africa into the colder climate that was controlled by Neanderthal at the time. We can write many books on all of this. Every book in the world would not be enough to explain what God is doing in Genesis chapter one. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be ..."

 

[BobRyan]

Science Adam (chapter one) came before Bible Adam in chapter two.

Adam in Genesis 1 is the same as Adam in Genesis 2.

Science is of man - we defined it

It is our study our "observations in nature".

But God is the one that made nature.

Yes Adam and Eve were the result of theistic evolution.

Not according to the Word of God.

I believe day six was 125,000,000 years ago. Day one 8 billion, day two 4 billion, day three 2 billion, day four 1 billion day five 500 million,

you have free will and can reject all the bible you wish.

But Ex 20:8-11 makes it very clear that the 7 days of Gen 1:3-2:4 are the same as the seven days at Sinai.

As for trying to jam Gen 1 into a modern book on evolutionism --

Our science text books Do NOT propose a naturalism story for origins where plants came along 1 billion years before the Sun.

This not even a tiny bit in doubt

another thing that is not even at tiny bit in doubt - is that neither Moses nor his readers at Sinai - were Darwinists. They had not notion of trying into inject Darwinism into Gen 1 and 2. So when it comes to context and exegesis - it is a literal 7 day creation week.

This is so glaringly obvious that even the non-Christian professors in all world class Universities dealing with the OT and Hebrew language - freely admit that the Genesis text is telling us of a literal 7 day creation week.

There is ZERO science today that has "observed" humans evolving from a common ancestor with apes.
There is ZERO science today that has observed the sun being created, not 6000 years ago and not 4 billion years ago.
There is ZERO science today that observed the moon being created z-billion years ago.

But there is quite a bit of guess work in those areas to be sure.

There is a LOT of science today that has observed the growth of plants, seed germination, sun spots. climate changes, chemical reactions, and a lot of changes over time.

If I stand up in a science class and provide a lot of verifiable , observable, falsifiable, repeatable observations in nature - and then end with "The Easter Bunny controls the weather" or "our weather is controlled by Martians" -- well then you can believe all that part I showed to be fact in the first part of the class - but that statement at the end would be totally bogus.

Students would be wise to use critical thinking to distinguish between the two.

 

[Vambram]

Science Adam (chapter one) came before Bible Adam in chapter two. Yes Adam and Eve were the result of theistic evolution. I believe day six was 125,000,000 years ago. Day one 8 billion, day two 4 billion, day three 2 billion, day four 1 billion day five 500 million, day 6 250 million. So we know God created man on day six and then he rested on day seven. 125 million years ago. So we can look to see what happened.

125 million years ago, during the Cretaceous period, several significant events shaped the Earth’s history:

1. Flowering Plants Emerged: Angiosperms, or flowering plants, began to leave their mark in the fossil record. Although genetics suggests that this group is even older, scientists generally place the oldest uncontested angiosperm fossils at around 125 to 130 million years ago. These plants played a crucial role in shaping ecosystems and supporting diverse animal life 12.
2. Dramatic Fossil Discovery: A remarkable 125 million-year-old fossil captures a moment in time when a carnivorous mammal attacked a large plant-eating dinosaur. This discovery provides evidence that mammals not only targeted smaller dinosaurs but also took on larger ones—an intriguing insight into ancient ecological interactions 3.
3. Archaefructus liaoningensis: Fossils of Archaefructus liaoningensis, the earliest known flowering plant, were found in China and are approximately 125 million years old. These fossils provide valuable information about the early evolution of flowering plants 4.

Man came out of africa 40,000 years ago. We see fish hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. They needed clothing to come up out of africa into the colder climate that was controlled by Neanderthal at the time. We can write many books on all of this. Every book in the world would not be enough to explain what God is doing in Genesis chapter one. John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be ..."

John 21:25 does NOT contradict the clear passages of Scripture such as Genesis, Exodus, and others which I posted in post #75.
If I were to believe in theistic evolution, then I would not have the same beliefs about God creating all life which Moses, Jesus, the apostle Paul, and the other NT apostles.