gentiles to keep from profaning the Sabbath -- even in the OT Sabbath made for mankind

[BobRyan]

The new covenant was with reunited House of Israel and the House of Judah.

Is there are "reunited House of Israel" text?

 

[Murray J]

Is there are "reunited House of Israel" text?

Yes. Heb 8:8 "Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." Eph 2:11-14 The "wall of partition broken down" and believing Israel regathered as one people.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes. Heb 8:8 "Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."

ok - but I was looking for "re-united Israel" or "former Israel" as in your post.

Eph 2:11-14 The "wall of partition broken down"

Another good text about Jews vs gentiles - but I was looking for "re-united Israel" or "former Israel" as in your post.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

ok - but I was looking for "re-united Israel" or "former Israel" as in your post.



Another good text about Jews vs gentiles - but I was looking for "re-united Israel" or "former Israel" as in your post.

I'm really sorry but your response to some of this contrived stuff can be quite amusing at times. I mean, let's be serious--how can Adam and Eve be considered children of Jacob?

 

[BobRyan]

I'm really sorry but your response to some of this contrived stuff can be quite amusing at times. I mean, let's be serious--how can Adam and Eve be considered children of Jacob?

Indeed they cannot!

Nor did they descend from Noah...

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Hi Jesse. My point isn't how it is translated into English.

Greetings. It may not be your point but since most of us here are English speakers, and not Biblical language experts, the translation has to be considered and dealt with. You cannot simply discard the fact that the word is translated numerous times as a proper noun, hundreds of times as referring to mankind in general, and not once as "Adamkind." Surely you can see what a stretch this is. Notwithstanding your curious interpretation of the relationship between spiritual and physical Israel, Gentiles, etc. (sometimes it seems fairly orthodox, and other times, well...)

If we then begin to look at the context of every use of the Hebrew word adam, we see that it is always related to the sons of Jacob.

Perhaps you're not altogether clear on the meaning of the English word "always."

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Jesse. My point isn't how it is translated into English. In the Hebrew it is always Adam

I have it on good authority there is no such thing as a Hebrew word "Kind" or "Adam" - those are english words. Hebrew: אָדָם, - so then how did they pronounce it? not "Adam". So while you claim you are not dealing with english translation - that is in fact the very thing you are doing.

Yes "yea" right the Is66:23 "All mankind" is exactly how it should be "translated"

1 Cor 15
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I have it on good authority there is no such thing as a Hebrew word "Kind" or "Adam" - those are english words. Hebrew: אָדָם, - so then how did they pronounce it? not "Adam". So while you claim you are not dealing with english translation - that is in fact the very thing you are doing. Yes "yea" right the Is66:23 "All mankind" is exactly how it should be "translated"

Rom 5
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Pardon me, but as long as we're being technical, That's 1 Corinthians 15, not Romans 5.

 

[BobRyan]

Pardon me, but as long as we're being technical, That's 1 Corinthians 15, not Romans 5.

Good point

 

[Murray J]

Greetings. It may not be your point but since most of us here are English speakers, and not Biblical language experts, the translation has to be considered and dealt with. You cannot simply discard the fact that the word is translated numerous times as a proper noun, hundreds of times as referring to mankind in general, and not once as "Adamkind." Surely you can see what a stretch this is. Notwithstanding your curious interpretation of the relationship between spiritual and physical Israel, Gentiles, etc. (sometimes it seems fairly orthodox, and other times, well...)

Perhaps you're not altogether clear on the meaning of the English word "always."

Hi Jesse. Moses wrote down the 5 books of the Torah (which included events that happened before Jacob existed) but because he was writing for the sons of Jacob, in that sense everything was related to them.
I am not a biblical language expert either. I did not study Hebrew or Greek. I use Strong's Concordance which shows me what the original words were.
My point with Adamkind is to illustrate that the Bible was for the children of Jacob and to show them how they came from Adam. If by 'mankind' you think 'people of Planet Earth' then that is not the context in which it is used in scripture. Yahweh Elohim was the God of Israel, not the God of Planet Earth.

 

[Murray J]

I have it on good authority there is no such thing as a Hebrew word "Kind" or "Adam" - those are english words. Hebrew: אָדָם, - so then how did they pronounce it? not "Adam". So while you claim you are not dealing with english translation - that is in fact the very thing you are doing. Yes "yea" right the Is66:23 "All mankind" is exactly how it should be "translated"

Rom 5
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Hi Bob. Thanks for the background. I am not a linguist and have never studied Hebrew or Greek. I simply use Strong's concordance to see what the words are.

In Strong's for example Gen 1:28 it says (and I can't type it exactly because I don't have the keys on my laptop) "'Elohiym bara adam." Strong's says that adam is pronounced aw-dawm. Now I can't see how the English 'man' is close to this. Awdawm would be closest in the English. Then in Gen 2:19 the Hebrew word 'adam' is slightly different with other inflections.

So my point is that whatever we translate the original Hebrew into, it would be good to keep it as close to the original as possible, otherwise we might add a thought in there that was never intended.

'Man' in the context in which it is generally used in the context of Genesis could equally be 'mankind' (because it doesn't mean man vs woman - it includes men and women.) If we think 'mankind' we think 'everyone who lives on Planet Earth.' That is the problem. What if the Bible doesn't mean everyone on Planet Earth? Then we have used the wrong word.

Hence my suggestion that we use something close to the original to not confuse it with man(kind.) Because I believe that adam and his descendants were not all of mankind. That mankind lived long before adam came onto the scene. And I believe the Bible backs me up on this.

I'm not sure why you quoted Isa 66:23. It doesn't mention man/adam in that verse. The translation is 'all flesh.' Strong's says that word is 'basar.' It is referring to the seed of Israel. This is during the time when redeemed Israel lives in the new skies/heavens and the new land/earth (v22.)

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not sure why you quoted Isa 66:23. It doesn't mention man/adam in that verse.

Its getting back to the subject of this thread - in Isaiah 56:6-8 and Isaiah 66:23 (for example, see the OP for more)

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Moses wrote down the 5 books of the Torah (which included events that happened before Jacob existed) but because he was writing for the sons of Jacob, in that sense everything was related to them.

There's no logic at all in this statement. I could write a book for Vietnamese on how to make biscuits and gravy, but it doesn't follow that Vietnamese and biscuits and gravy are related.

Yahweh Elohim was(?) the God of Israel,

Did He die or something?
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore...
Revelation 1:18

not the God of Planet Earth.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:1

Because I believe that adam and his descendants were not all of mankind. That mankind lived long before adam came onto the scene. And I believe the Bible backs me up on this.

And I believe you might be a little confused.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hi Bob. Thanks for the background. I am not a linguist and have never studied Hebrew or Greek. I simply use Strong's concordance to see what the words are.

In Strong's for example Gen 1:28 it says (and I can't type it exactly because I don't have the keys on my laptop) "'Elohiym bara adam." Strong's says that adam is pronounced aw-dawm. Now I can't see how the English 'man' is close to this. Awdawm would be closest in the English. Then in Gen 2:19 the Hebrew word 'adam' is slightly different with other inflections.

So my point is that whatever we translate the original Hebrew into, it would be good to keep it as close to the original as possible, otherwise we might add a thought in there that was never intended.

'Man' in the context in which it is generally used in the context of Genesis could equally be 'mankind' (because it doesn't mean man vs woman - it includes men and women.) If we think 'mankind' we think 'everyone who lives on Planet Earth.' That is the problem. What if the Bible doesn't mean everyone on Planet Earth? Then we have used the wrong word.

Hence my suggestion that we use something close to the original to not confuse it with man(kind.) Because I believe that adam and his descendants were not all of mankind. That mankind lived long before adam came onto the scene. And I believe the Bible backs me up on this.

I'm not sure why you quoted Isa 66:23. It doesn't mention man/adam in that verse. The translation is 'all flesh.' Strong's says that word is 'basar.' It is referring to the seed of Israel. This is during the time when redeemed Israel lives in the new skies/heavens and the new land/earth (v22.)

Adam...red man. Dam is red blood...Adamah is red earth or clay...both are red or ruddy. All these words have a connection... Life is in the dam...God made Adam from the dust of the adamah.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Adam...red man. Dam is red blood...Adamah is red earth or clay...both are red or ruddy. All these words have a connection... Life is in the dam...God made Adam from the dust of the adamah.

Yeah, and the world is my oyster-soup-kitchen-floor-wax-museum.

 

[Murray J]

There's no logic at all in this statement. I could write a book for Vietnamese on how to make biscuits and gravy, but it doesn't follow that Vietnamese and biscuits and gravy are related.

Did He die or something?
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore...
Revelation 1:18

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:1

And I believe you might be a little confused.

Please cross-reference every mention of erets in the Old Testament (and it's Greek equivalent in the NT) and you will see why I have concluded this.

 

[Murray J]

Yeah, and the world is my oyster-soup-kitchen-floor-wax-museum.

You have a strange way of discussing biblical texts Jesse.

 

[Murray J]

Adam...red man. Dam is red blood...Adamah is red earth or clay...both are red or ruddy. All these words have a connection... Life is in the dam...God made Adam from the dust of the adamah.

Thanks. That's interesting.

 

[Murray J]

There's no logic at all in this statement. I could write a book for Vietnamese on how to make biscuits and gravy, but it doesn't follow that Vietnamese and biscuits and gravy are related.

Did He die or something?
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore...
Revelation 1:18

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:1

And I believe you might be a little confused.

I stand by my statement that the sons of Jacob is the pivot of all scripture.

Yahweh will never die. The term 'Israel' has loaded meanings. The Israel that Yahweh Elohim was God of, is not the same Israel now. (And I don't mean it is the modern church because it's not if that same church says that believers can sin. His Israel and His church love and trust Him wholeheartedly and live in purity.)

In the beginning Elohim created the skies and the land. (Look at the alternative meanings for the Hebrew words. Then look how these words are used in the rest of the OT.)

My constant purpose is to find out if what we believe is real or is something else happening? Do the translators have a different world view than the Bible? If the translator thinks the word means (Planet) 'Earth', then that's what it becomes but in other cases the translator thinks 'local land' and that's the result. But what if they all mean local land? That's my study. I don't assume anything. I test everything against all of scripture.

 

[Murray J]

I am going to be leaving this website shortly. It was nice for the short time I was here. Someone has taken offence to something I have said. I never aim to offend anyone so I'm very sorry that has happened. Therefore, so it doesn't happen again, I will delete my account (once I find out how to do that.)

I have appreciated those of you who have engaged in biblical matters with me. My constant desire is only to know the truth. For those who were asking, yes I have sinned since accepting Jesus as Saviour and so I do not count myself as part of the Living holy church, for John says in 1 John 3 that a believer cannot sin and if he does he does not know Jesus. I accept that. I do not believe that 1 John 1 applies to me because that was my state before trusting Jesus. I cannot ask forgiveness again because he died once for sins. (Hebrews tells me that.)

As I have no other grounds for life, I continue to honour Yahweh Elohim and the teachings of his son Jesus. I endeavour to do what is right, knowing it does not count towards salvation or toward anything in Yahweh's eyes. I happily accept whatever happens to me at the end of this life. In the meantime, I enjoy the life he has given me and am thankful every day for it.

Shalom.