The 7th day Sabbath Command Points to the Millennial Kingdom and the Final Kingdom of Heaven.

[trophy33]

Yes, the bible defines itself if one allows, instead of us trying to define it, that's when everything goes wrong. Pro 3:5-6

No, context defines what anything means.

Any sectarian can jump from sentence here to sentence there and create an image he wants. Its easy. What is harder is to focus, to not change meanings, trying to understand what is meant in the context. Its harder, because its against human nature, but its needed for the truth.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Isaiah 28:10

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Jesus did not say that the law would not pass. He actually said the opposite:

“The Law and the Prophets were until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it."
Lk 16:16

you forgot the following verse, You cannot cherry pick a verse like you did, Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not see the following verse, Luke 16:17

Here is the verse you mentioned in the proper context;
@Bob S

The Law and the Kingdom of God​

Luk 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus.

Luk 16:15 So He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

Luk 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Luk 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Matt 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law and the prophesies concerning Him. According to your post I believe you are telling us that He failed in His mission. According to what I think you are telling us is that Jesus didn't accomplish all He came to get done while on Earth.

Dear Bob,

i have researched this fully and it took me some time, please read the following in full a bit long but I hope it will clarify.

In Matthew 5:18, Jesus makes a strong statement about the permanence of God's Law. He says, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." To understand this verse correctly, especially in relation to whether it nullifies the commandments, we need to examine the Greek words used, particularly the word for "accomplished" (γένηται - genētai). The word "disappear" (παρέλθῃ - parelthē) means "to pass away" or "to be removed," making it clear that the Law will not come to an end until something specific takes place. Jesus reinforces this idea by saying that even the smallest letter, known as iōta (ἰῶτα), which refers to the tiniest letter in the Hebrew alphabet, and the least stroke of a pen (mia keraia - μία κεραία), which refers to small decorative marks in Hebrew writing, will remain intact. This strong language emphasizes that not even the tiniest part of the Law is abolished.

The key phrase "until everything is accomplished" (ἕως ἂν πάντα γένηται - heōs an panta genētai) contains the word genētai, derived from ginomai, meaning "to come into being," "to happen," or "to be fulfilled in reality." This word does not mean to abolish but rather that something must take place in its proper time. Many assume that because Jesus fulfilled certain prophecies, the Law is no longer relevant, but Jesus Himself makes it clear that the Law remains until heaven and earth pass away, which has not yet happened. Since genētai refers to events being completed rather than laws being nullified, the verse does not suggest that God's commandments are no longer valid. Instead, it points to the unfolding of God's divine plan.

Jesus further clarifies His mission in Matthew 5:17, where He says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." The Greek word for "fulfill" here is plēroō (πληρόω), which means "to bring to full meaning," "to complete," or "to establish fully." His purpose was not to abolish the Law but to show its full intent and to live it perfectly as an example for all. This is why in Matthew 5:19, He warns that anyone who teaches against the commandments will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since heaven and earth have not yet passed away, every part of God's Law, including the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath, remains in place. Jesus consistently affirmed obedience to God's commandments, as seen in Matthew 19:17, where He said, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." The idea that Jesus came to remove or replace God's moral law contradicts His own words. Instead, He upheld the law, teaching its deeper spiritual meaning while rejecting human traditions that distorted its purpose.

Matthew 5:18 does not mean the commandments are nullified. The Greek word genētai shows that God's plan must be carried out, not that His law is abolished. Since heaven and earth still exist, everything Jesus said about the enduring nature of God's Law remains true today. His words confirm that the Law is still in effect and will not pass away until God's purposes are fully accomplished.

Peace

 

[trophy33]

you forgot the following verse, You cannot cherry pick a verse like you did, Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not see the following verse, Luke 16:17

The same can be said about you. You cannot cherry pick a verse you like, you must read Luke 16:17 with Luke 16:16 first which says that the Law was till John the baptist.

Luke 16:17 also does not state that the Law will never pass away as you claimed before. It says:
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Failing and passing away are very different things.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

you forgot the following verse, You cannot cherry pick a verse like you did, Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not see the following verse, Luke 16:17

Here is the verse you mentioned in the proper context;
@Bob S

The Law and the Kingdom of God​

Luk 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus.

Luk 16:15 So He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

Luk 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Luk 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

A very appropriate verse, it reveals an important principle: God teaches truth progressively. He does not reveal everything at once but builds understanding step by step. This is how the Bible works, truth is scattered throughout different books, and we must study carefully, putting the pieces together.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The same can be said about you. You cannot cherry pick a verse you like, you must read Luke 16:17 with Luke 16:16 first which says that the Law was till John the baptist.

Luke 16:17 also does not state that the Law will never pass away as you claimed before. It says:
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Failing and passing away are very different things.

The same can be said about you. You cannot cherry pick a verse you like, you must read Luke 16:17 with Luke 16:16 first which says that the Law was till John the baptist.

Luke 16:17 also does not state that the Law will never pass away as you claimed before. It says:
But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.

Failing and passing away are very different things.

I am sorry you do not believe what Christ said it is very clear!

You who just gave a lesson to others to use the proper context and I quote from a recent post from you;
"
No, context defines what anything means.

Any sectarian can jump from sentence here to sentence there and create a puzzle he wants. Its easy. What is harder is to focus, to not change meanings, trying to understand what is meant in the context. Its harder, because its against human nature, but its needed for the truth."

Yes context is important and Jesus words are Clear;

The Law and the Kingdom of God​

Luk 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus.

Luk 16:15 So He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

Luk 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

I had written a personal comment on this verse below, it is from my study's own database:

Luk 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Luke 16:17 presents an unequivocal declaration of the enduring and immutable nature of God's Law. Jesus states that it would be easier for the entirety of heaven and earth to pass away than for even the smallest stroke of a pen to fall from the Law. This assertion underscores the absolute permanence of divine commandments, affirming their unalterable authority across all ages.

This statement functions as a direct refutation of any notion that Christ’s ministry introduced an abrogation of divine law. Rather, it reinforces the continuity of God's commandments, aligning with His earlier declaration in Matthew 5:17-18 that He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. The implication is that no human authority, religious institution, or doctrinal evolution possesses the capacity to nullify or diminish the divine precepts established by God. As long as heaven and earth remain, His Law stands immutable, reflecting His eternal righteousness and sovereign will.

Peace.

 

[Bob S]

Dear Bob,

i have researched this fully and it took me some time, please read the following in full a bit long but I hope it will clarify.

In Matthew 5:18, Jesus makes a strong statement about the permanence of God's Law. He says, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." To understand this verse correctly, especially in relation to whether it nullifies the commandments, we need to examine the Greek words used, particularly the word for "accomplished" (γένηται - genētai). The word "disappear" (παρέλθῃ - parelthē) means "to pass away" or "to be removed," making it clear that the Law will not come to an end until something specific takes place. Jesus reinforces this idea by saying that even the smallest letter, known as iōta (ἰῶτα), which refers to the tiniest letter in the Hebrew alphabet, and the least stroke of a pen (mia keraia - μία κεραία), which refers to small decorative marks in Hebrew writing, will remain intact. This strong language emphasizes that not even the tiniest part of the Law is abolished.

The key phrase "until everything is accomplished" (ἕως ἂν πάντα γένηται - heōs an panta genētai) contains the word genētai, derived from ginomai, meaning "to come into being," "to happen," or "to be fulfilled in reality." This word does not mean to abolish but rather that something must take place in its proper time. Many assume that because Jesus fulfilled certain prophecies, the Law is no longer relevant, but Jesus Himself makes it clear that the Law remains until heaven and earth pass away, which has not yet happened. Since genētai refers to events being completed rather than laws being nullified, the verse does not suggest that God's commandments are no longer valid. Instead, it points to the unfolding of God's divine plan.

Jesus further clarifies His mission in Matthew 5:17, where He says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." The Greek word for "fulfill" here is plēroō (πληρόω), which means "to bring to full meaning," "to complete," or "to establish fully." His purpose was not to abolish the Law but to show its full intent and to live it perfectly as an example for all. This is why in Matthew 5:19, He warns that anyone who teaches against the commandments will be least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Since heaven and earth have not yet passed away, every part of God's Law, including the Ten Commandments and the Sabbath, remains in place. Jesus consistently affirmed obedience to God's commandments, as seen in Matthew 19:17, where He said, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." The idea that Jesus came to remove or replace God's moral law contradicts His own words. Instead, He upheld the law, teaching its deeper spiritual meaning while rejecting human traditions that distorted its purpose.

Matthew 5:18 does not mean the commandments are nullified. The Greek word genētai shows that God's plan must be carried out, not that His law is abolished. Since heaven and earth still exist, everything Jesus said about the enduring nature of God's Law remains true today. His words confirm that the Law is still in effect and will not pass away until God's purposes are fully accomplished.

Peace

Hi JFF, thank you for your thoughtful response. Since you believe you have studied the verses thoroughly and conclude you have the correct answer, I probably cannot change your mind. I would ask you to respond to the words of Jesus ambassador, Paul's writings on the same subject. Before I get into that I have to make a comment about Matt5. It seems like there are two main view of Jesus words, one you have stated and the one I believe is true. Just remember Jesus came to save a fallen race of people. He lived under the laws that condemned the Israelites. He taught the true meaning of all those laws. they were to live under every tittle of them until......

Paul had a great deal to say about the laws the Jews were living under. I start with Gal 3 "Oh you foolish Galatians". They were being led away from the teachings Paul had instilled in them. How? Well, they were being taught that their salvation depended on keeping the laws of the Old Covenant. The following verses are so important as to what we are to believe.
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Then Paul goes on to tell everyone this:
17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Now compare Paul's writing with the way you and I interpret Matt 5. If that doesn't spark some thought, then I have another great set of verses on the same subject from Paul. Eph 2.
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

I Would ask that you compare your interpretation of Matt 5 with the scriptures I provided. Gentiles never were under the dictates of the laws of the Old Covenant. Matt 5 was written for Jews. At what period do you believe we become subject to the 613 laws that the Jews were to obey?

 

[guevaraj]

Eph 2.15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

Brother, that is a mistranslation. It is not the Ten Commandments of God that are being set aside, but Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments in its human traditions as told by Jesus in the last passage below.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (human laws), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ESV)​

The following passage tells us clearly where true cleansing from sin comes from, as with water, and it comes from obeying the Ten Commandments as Jesus obeyed them and not as Judaism disobeyed them by sabotaging them with human traditions added to the “word” of God written in letters on stone.

For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word. He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault. In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man who loves his wife actually shows love for himself. No one hates his own body but feeds and cares for it, just as Christ cares for the church. And we are members of his body. (Ephesians 5:25-30 NLT)​

Here is evidence of the need to follow the spirit in Jesus' model of obedience and not the letters in stone in Judaism's model of disobedience.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hi JFF, thank you for your thoughtful response. Since you believe you have studied the verses thoroughly and conclude you have the correct answer, I probably cannot change your mind. I would ask you to respond to the words of Jesus ambassador, Paul's writings on the same subject. Before I get into that I have to make a comment about Matt5. It seems like there are two main view of Jesus words, one you have stated and the one I believe is true. Just remember Jesus came to save a fallen race of people. He lived under the laws that condemned the Israelites. He taught the true meaning of all those laws. they were to live under every tittle of them until......

Paul had a great deal to say about the laws the Jews were living under. I start with Gal 3 "Oh you foolish Galatians". They were being led away from the teachings Paul had instilled in them. How? Well, they were being taught that their salvation depended on keeping the laws of the Old Covenant. The following verses are so important as to what we are to believe.
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Then Paul goes on to tell everyone this:
17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Now compare Paul's writing with the way you and I interpret Matt 5. If that doesn't spark some thought, then I have another great set of verses on the same subject from Paul. Eph 2.
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

I Would ask that you compare your interpretation of Matt 5 with the scriptures I provided. Gentiles never were under the dictates of the laws of the Old Covenant. Matt 5 was written for Jews. At what period do you believe we become subject to the 613 laws that the Jews were to obey?

I will look into what you wrote. ill be back to you this week.

Blessings.

 

[Bob S]

Brother, that is a mistranslation. It is not the Ten Commandments of God that are being set aside, but Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments in its human traditions as told by Jesus in the last passage below.

yes, according to you there are so many "mistranslations" in all the many Bibles that we cannot trust any of them. Well, after giving five seconds of thought to your translation, I have decided to stick with the Bible as it is written. I don't have to make changes to scripture to support my belief.

 

[guevaraj]

yes, according to you there are so many "mistranslations" in all the many Bibles that we cannot trust any of them. Well, after giving five seconds of thought to your translation, I have decided to stick with the Bible as it is written. I don't have to make changes to scripture to support my belief.

Brother, this passage gives enough reasons not to trust uninspired human translators instead of trusting the inspired word of God guaranteed by the prophets. I have a good example of this in the King James translators who distort the original message of Hebrews where God wants us to keep the Sabbath in the new covenant corrected from human tradition in Judaism since Joshua.

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these lawless (athesmos) people and lose your own secure footing. Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen. (2 Peter 3:15-18 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Bob S]

Brother, this passage gives enough reasons not to trust uninspired human translators instead of trusting the inspired word of God guaranteed by the prophets. I have a good example of this in the King James translators who distort the original message of Hebrews where God wants us to keep the Sabbath in the new covenant corrected from human tradition in Judaism since Joshua.

Hi Jorge, so, now you consider that Hebrews is also distorted. Could it be you think it is because you have preconceived ideas that somehow Christians have somehow been ordered, by God, that we must keep the Old Covenant Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel and no other nation ever?

Do you have a copy of a Bible that has not been translated or is it just you that translates the translations?

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these lawless (athesmos) people and lose your own secure footing. Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen. (2 Peter 3:15-18 NLT fixed)​

How can you trust the NLT? Isn't it also a translation? If you are really correct, then how can we trust Is 66:23 or 2Pet 3:15=18 to be true?

 

[guevaraj]

Hi Jorge, so, now you consider that Hebrews is also distorted. Could it be you think it is because you have preconceived ideas that somehow Christians have somehow been ordered, by God, that we must keep the Old Covenant Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel and no other nation ever? Do you have a copy of a Bible that has not been translated or is it just you that translates the translations?

Brother, we all have access to the original inspired word of God by adding the word “interlinear” to our search.

How can you trust the NLT?

This translation did not follow the King James Version's distortion of the passage that influenced so many other translations.

Isn't it also a translation?

A modern and complete effort that did not rely on the previous work of the King James Version, as so many other translations have done with the Hebrew passage on the Sabbath.

If you are really correct, then how can we trust Is 66:23 or 2Pet 3:15=18 to be true?

We can trust the translation if we look at the original message when we add the word “interlinear” to our online search. This is how I fixed the following passage when I saw that the original word means “lawless” and not wicked as it was translated.

And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked (ponéros)/lawless (athesmos) people and lose your own secure footing. Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen. (2 Peter 3:15-18 NLT fixed)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Hi JFF, thank you for your thoughtful response. Since you believe you have studied the verses thoroughly and conclude you have the correct answer, I probably cannot change your mind. I would ask you to respond to the words of Jesus ambassador, Paul's writings on the same subject. Before I get into that I have to make a comment about Matt5. It seems like there are two main view of Jesus words, one you have stated and the one I believe is true. Just remember Jesus came to save a fallen race of people. He lived under the laws that condemned the Israelites. He taught the true meaning of all those laws. they were to live under every tittle of them until......

Paul had a great deal to say about the laws the Jews were living under. I start with Gal 3 "Oh you foolish Galatians". They were being led away from the teachings Paul had instilled in them. How? Well, they were being taught that their salvation depended on keeping the laws of the Old Covenant. The following verses are so important as to what we are to believe.
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Then Paul goes on to tell everyone this:
17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Now compare Paul's writing with the way you and I interpret Matt 5. If that doesn't spark some thought, then I have another great set of verses on the same subject from Paul. Eph 2.
11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

I Would ask that you compare your interpretation of Matt 5 with the scriptures I provided. Gentiles never were under the dictates of the laws of the Old Covenant. Matt 5 was written for Jews. At what period do you believe we become subject to the 613 laws that the Jews were to obey?

Dear Bob S

"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18, NKJV)

Jesus' words in Matthew 5:18 are clear and unambiguous:

This statement does not allow for any interpretation that suggests the Law has been set aside or abolished before the fulfillment Jesus speaks of. Jesus ties the endurance of the Law to the permanence of heaven and earth. Since heaven and earth have not yet passed away, it follows that the Law remains in effect in its intended purpose.

The argument you present attempts to reinterpret Jesus’ words through the lens of Paul's writings, particularly Galatians 3 and Ephesians 2. However, this approach is flawed for two reasons. First, it presupposes that Paul is giving a new or separate doctrine that modifies or negates Jesus’ teachings. But Jesus' words stand as the highest authority, and any true understanding of the apostles must be in harmony with Him. Second, it conflates different aspects of the Law, God's eternal moral commands, the ceremonial laws, and the civil ordinances of Israel without distinguishing their purposes.

​

To understand Matthew 5:18 in context, Jesus was not speaking of temporary legal obligations but rather of the enduring nature of God's law. He clarified in the following verse (Matthew 5:19) that those who break even the least of these commandments and teach others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who keep and teach them will be called great. This directly contradicts any notion that the Law was discarded after His resurrection. Instead, Jesus magnified and clarified its meaning, showing how obedience to God must go beyond mere outward observance and reach into the heart.

Galatians 3 does not contradict Jesus' words; rather, it addresses the specific issue of people trying to be justified by works of the Law rather than by faith. Paul is refuting the idea that salvation comes through adherence to legalistic observances rather than through faith in Christ. However, this does not mean that God's commandments are void or irrelevant. Even Abraham, whom Paul sets as an example, obeyed God’s commands (Genesis 26:5). The Law was never meant to replace faith but to guide people toward righteousness and reveal sin.

Paul says that the Law was added because of transgressions until the Seed (Christ) came (Galatians 3:19). This does not mean the Law was abolished with Christ’s coming; rather, its role in pointing to sin remains. Christ did not remove the Law but took upon Himself the curse that came from breaking it (Galatians 3:13). If the Law itself were abolished, there would be no sin, because "sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4). Instead, believers are now empowered to obey through the Spirit, rather than striving under a system of legalistic works.

Ephesians 2:14-15 speaks of Christ breaking down "the dividing wall" and abolishing "the law with its commands and regulations." This does not refer to God's eternal moral law but rather to the ceremonial and civil regulations that separated Jews and Gentiles. The hostility came from the commandments that marked Israel as distinct—such as circumcision, sacrifices, and dietary laws—not from the moral law itself, which remains the standard of righteousness.

Paul is emphasizing that Gentiles are no longer considered outsiders to God’s covenant because of external ordinances. Instead, they are brought near through Christ. This does not mean that God’s moral commands are abolished; rather, believers, both Jews and Gentiles, are now united under one law: the law of Christ, which upholds God’s commandments in their true spiritual intent.

It is often argued that the Gentiles were never under the Law of the Old Covenant. However, this does not mean they were without obligation to God's moral law. In fact, the prophets foretold that Gentiles would one day be brought into obedience to God's ways (Isaiah 2:2-3, Zechariah 14:16). Jesus Himself instructed His disciples to teach all nations everything He commanded (Matthew 28:19-20), which includes obedience to God's commandments.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus suggest that Gentiles are exempt from God's moral laws. Instead, He calls all people to repentance and righteousness. The question should not be whether Gentiles were subject to the "613 laws" of Moses but whether they are called to live in obedience to God. Jesus' own words affirm that they are.

To conclude, Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:18 is absolute: the Law remains until heaven and earth pass away. Paul’s writings do not overturn this but attempt to clarify the role of the Law in relation to faith and justification. God's commandments are not a means of salvation but a reflection of His righteousness, which believers are called to uphold. The idea that the Law was abolished contradicts both Jesus' direct teaching and the prophetic expectation of God's righteousness being upheld by all nations.

Rather than dismissing Jesus’ words in favor of a particular interpretation of Paul, we must understand Paul in light of Jesus. The Law remains, not as a burden for justification, but as a guide to righteous living, upheld through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings.

 

[Bob S]

Dear Bob S

"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18, NKJV)

Jesus' words in Matthew 5:18 are clear and unambiguous:

This statement does not allow for any interpretation that suggests the Law has been set aside or abolished before the fulfillment Jesus speaks of. Jesus ties the endurance of the Law to the permanence of heaven and earth. Since heaven and earth have not yet passed away, it follows that the Law remains in effect in its intended purpose.

Thanks for your thorough reply. Jesus said came to fulfil the prophesies. all prophetic writings were not concerning the coming of our Savior, so we have to agree that Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies about His coming. One of the meanings of fulfill means "to bring to an end". Jesus brought to an end the prophesies about His coming. Now that the real meaning fulfill has been established let's see where it leads. 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Not only did Jesus come to fulfill the prophesies about His coming, He also came to fulfill the Law. Fulfill the Law has to have the same meaning as fulfilling the prophesies. Jesus brought the Law to an end at Calvary where He instituted the new and better covenant of Grace. He ratified the new and better covenant with His own Blood. Grace is exactly what Paul started teaching after Jesus appointed him teach the new and better covenant. Everything Paul taught indicates that Jesus did end the old covenant with its commandments and regulations.

Your rendition of Eph2:14-15 speculates that Paul didn't mean the Law Jesus was referring. You had to try to change Paul's plain words to mean something entirely different. The Law was the barrier that kept the Gentiles and the Israelites separate. In EX 19:5-6 God tells Moses: 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” God didn't offer that to any other nation. Israel was, because of the Law, a separate nation if they kept it. The laws of that Sinai Covenant were different than any other nations. This made Israel separate. Paul wrote that Jesus broke that barrier, the Law, by removing it. You cannot rightly tell us that God just removed civil and ceremonial laws. That is not what the verse is telling us especially because it is established in Matt 5 that Jesus came to bring an end to the Law and the prophets.

The argument you present attempts to reinterpret Jesus’ words through the lens of Paul's writings, particularly Galatians 3 and Ephesians 2. However, this approach is flawed for two reasons. First, it presupposes that Paul is giving a new or separate doctrine that modifies or negates Jesus’ teachings. But Jesus' words stand as the highest authority, and any true understanding of the apostles must be in harmony with Him. Second, it conflates different aspects of the Law, God's eternal moral commands, the ceremonial laws, and the civil ordinances of Israel without distinguishing their purposes.

Jesus' teachings were for the Jews under the Law of Moses. He didn't teach the new and better covenant because it didn't start until Calvary. Who really is the one reinterpreting Jesus and Paul's words? I don't have to interpret Paul's writings. I can take the verbatim because I know what the meaning of fulfill is in Matt 5.

To understand Matthew 5:18 in context, Jesus was not speaking of temporary legal obligations but rather of the enduring nature of God's law. He clarified in the following verse (Matthew 5:19) that those who break even the least of these commandments and teach others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, while those who keep and teach them will be called great. This directly contradicts any notion that the Law was discarded after His resurrection. Instead, Jesus magnified and clarified its meaning, showing how obedience to God must go beyond mere outward observance and reach into the heart.

Of course He taught that. He came to this Earth as a Jew under the Law of Moses and according to Jn15: 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. What laws did Jesus keep? He kept the Sinai Covenant laws. Then Jesus tells the disciples in thew following verses: 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. Notice Jesus didn't tell them to keep the Sinai Covenant laws like He did.

Galatians 3 does not contradict Jesus' words; rather, it addresses the specific issue of people trying to be justified by works of the Law rather than by faith.

Exactly, he doesn't contradict Jesus because Jesus ended the Law at Calvary.

I need to diverse for a moment. I was an SDA for almost 40 years, and they taught that if I left the church and stopped observing the Sabbath I would lose my eternal inheritance. That is salvation by works. If our salvation depends on keeping a day, I am convinced no one will be in Heaven. The Israelites couldn't, so why would anyone else believe it could be done. Only Jeus has ever accomplished keeping the covenant given at Sinai.

Paul is refuting the idea that salvation comes through adherence to legalistic observances rather than through faith in Christ. However, this does not mean that God's commandments are void or irrelevant. Even Abraham, whom Paul sets as an example, obeyed God’s commands (Genesis 26:5). The Law was never meant to replace faith but to guide people toward righteousness and reveal sin.

Right, the Law was not irrelevant to the ones God gave them to. Abraham didn't have the Sinai covenant. He had a different set of laws to live by just as we also have different laws to live by.

Paul says that the Law was added because of transgressions until the Seed (Christ) came (Galatians 3:19). This does not mean the Law was abolished with Christ’s coming; rather, its role in pointing to sin remains.

What does "until" mean if it doesn't mean that the Law was enforce till Jesus fulfilled it, brought it to an end?

Christ did not remove the Law but took upon Himself the curse that came from breaking it (Galatians 3:13). If the Law itself were abolished, there would be no sin, because "sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4). Instead, believers are now empowered to obey through the Spirit, rather than striving under a system of legalistic works.

That is not true. There was sin before the Law was given at Sinai. We have laws today. Our most gracious Law is the Law of Love. If we abide by that one law, we will never misuse God's Name or treat our fellow man in in a negative way. 1Jn3:19--24 tells us we belong to the truth if we believe in Jesus ands love others as He taught us.

Ephesians 2:14-15 speaks of Christ breaking down "the dividing wall" and abolishing "the law with its commands and regulations." This does not refer to God's eternal moral law but rather to the ceremonial and civil regulations that separated Jews and Gentiles. The hostility came from the commandments that marked Israel as distinct—such as circumcision, sacrifices, and dietary laws—not from the moral law itself, which remains the standard of righteousness.

Once again, you are taking verses and translating them to mean something other than what is stated. Because of preconceived beliefs you have to take those verses and reinterpret.

Paul is emphasizing that Gentiles are no longer considered outsiders to God’s covenant because of external ordinances. Instead, they are brought near through Christ. This does not mean that God’s moral commands are abolished; rather, believers, both Jews and Gentiles, are now united under one law: the law of Christ, which upholds God’s commandments in their true spiritual intent.

I already addressed that above.

It is often argued that the Gentiles were never under the Law of the Old Covenant.

That is not an argument, that is an undeniable fact.

However, this does not mean they were without obligation to God's moral law.

All of God's laws are "moral". Some were meant for Abraham, some for Noah, some for Israel and some for us who live in the eternal covenant Jesus ratified at Calvary.

In fact, the prophets foretold that Gentiles would one day be brought into obedience to God's ways (Isaiah 2:2-3, Zechariah 14:16). Jesus Himself instructed His disciples to teach all nations everything He commanded (Matthew 28:19-20), which includes obedience to God's commandments.

Jn15:
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. Tell us JFF, did Jesus ever command anyone to observe the feast days or the health commands? John 15 indicates that there isa difference in the commands the Father gave to Israel and the ones Jeus gave to us.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus suggest that Gentiles are exempt from God's moral laws.

You are so correct. The laws dealing with feast days etc and the Seventh-day Sabbath were ceremonial or ritual. They had nothing to do with morality towards God or their fellow man

Instead, He calls all people to repentance and righteousness. The question should not be whether Gentiles were subject to the "613 laws" of Moses but whether they are called to live in obedience to God. Jesus' own words affirm that they are.

Once again, I point you to 1n3:19-24

To conclude, Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:18 is absolute: the Law remains until heaven and earth pass away.

Your conclusion fails to continue with the thought. It does not say that and end there, it ends with a qualifier: "until everything is accomplished"

Paul’s writings do not overturn this but attempt to clarify the role of the Law in relation to faith and justification. God's commandments are not a means of salvation but a reflection of His righteousness,

Why is it so many use that old cliché "a reflection of His righteousness"??? I am guessing by your use of God's commandments you mean the Ten Commandments. Are you aware that there is not one word in the Ten Commandments about Israelites loving one another. If as you believe we can know God by those commands, then we have to believe there is nothing about love in His character.

Did you happen to get that thought from reading SDA literature?

which believers are called to uphold. The idea that the Law was abolished contradicts both Jesus' direct teaching and the prophetic expectation of God's righteousness being upheld by all nations.

Jesus didn't abolish the Law Israel's continued failure to leep the Law was responsible for it being ended The Law is perfect for what it was intended to do, and we can glean much from studying it.

Rather than dismissing Jesus’ words in favor of a particular interpretation of Paul, we must understand Paul in light of Jesus. The Law remains, not as a burden for justification, but as a guide to righteous living, upheld through faith and the power of the Holy Spirit.

When one starts off with the wrong premise everything else has to be reinterpreted, which is what I see that you are doing.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Dear Bob S,

I will explain in depth the verse in Matthew 5:17 below, which is a personal commentary from my Bible study on this verse. I also wanted, for a long time, to understand the proper meaning of the word 'fulfill' in the context of Jesus's teachings. If this does not convince you, there is nothing else I could add.

The Greek term translated as "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17 is πληρόω (plēróō), a verb that denotes bringing something to its intended completeness, full expression, or proper realization rather than its abrogation or termination. A precise exegetical analysis of this passage, informed by both linguistic and contextual considerations, demonstrates that Jesus is not nullifying the Law but rather affirming its enduring authority and divine purpose.

The verb πληρόω is employed throughout the New Testament in contexts where something reaches its fullness or intended goal. It does not inherently carry the sense of abrogation or cessation but rather denotes bringing to full measure, realization, or consummation. For example, in Matthew 3:15, Jesus tells John the Baptist that it is necessary to "fulfill all righteousness" (πληρῶσαι πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην). Here, it is evident that Jesus is not annulling righteousness but embodying it fully. Likewise, in Matthew 5:17, He is stating that He has come to bring the Law to its full expression through His life, teachings, and redemptive work.

Jesus immediately follows His declaration in Matthew 5:17 with an emphatic assertion in verse 18: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." This statement establishes the enduring validity of the Law, as "heaven and earth passing away" is an eschatological phrase indicating the final renewal of creation (cf. Revelation 21:1). Since the created order still stands, the Law remains in force. The phrase "one jot or one tittle" underlines that even the smallest details of the Law remain authoritative.

Furthermore, Jesus' discourse in Matthew 5:21–48 repeatedly demonstrates how He intensifies and internalizes the Law, not abolishes it. His pattern of teaching—"You have heard that it was said... but I say to you..."—does not replace the Law with new precepts but restores its deeper, spiritual intent. This approach aligns with prophetic expectations that the Messiah would write the Law upon the hearts of His people (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26–27), rather than negate it.

The idea that "fulfilling" the Law equates to ending its requirements is hermeneutically untenable given biblical precedent. The Law, as an expression of God's character and moral order, is not something that can be abrogated without violating the nature of God Himself (cf. Psalm 119:89, Malachi 3:6). Instead, Jesus fulfills the Law by perfectly obeying it, thus embodying true righteousness (Isaiah 42:21), clarifying its original intent by moving beyond mere external adherence to a transformation of the heart, and establishing it as the standard for His disciples, as seen in Matthew 5:19, where He warns against relaxing even the least of its commandments.

The exegetical and theological evidence overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that πληρόω (plēróō) does not mean to terminate the Law but to bring it to its full expression. Jesus affirms the Law’s perpetual validity, corrects its misinterpretation, and enables His followers to live according to its divine principles. The enduring authority of the Law remains intact until heaven and earth pass away, reinforcing the inescapable reality that fulfillment in this context signifies continuity rather than annulment.

I will comment further tomorrow on some aspects of your reply. I prefer to address important defining biblical concepts one at a time.

Blessings.

 

[Bob S]

Dear Bob S,

I will explain in depth the verse in Matthew 5:17 below, which is a personal commentary from my Bible study on this verse. I also wanted, for a long time, to understand the proper meaning of the word 'fulfill' in the context of Jesus's teachings. If this does not convince you, there is nothing else I could add.

The Greek term translated as "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17 is πληρόω (plēróō), a verb that denotes bringing something to its intended completeness,

Yes, yes, yes just what I have been trying to get across to you. Jesus brought the prophesies concerning Him to its intended completeness. He fulfilled them and so there couldn't ever be anymore prophecies prophesying about that event. Since Law and prophesies are in the same sentence, we have to agree that the word fulfill relates the same to both accomplishments Jesus did while on this Earth.

full expression, or proper realization rather than its abrogation or termination. A precise exegetical analysis of this passage, informed by both linguistic and contextual considerations, demonstrates that Jesus is not nullifying the Law but rather affirming its enduring authority and divine purpose.

The verb πληρόω is employed throughout the New Testament in contexts where something reaches its fullness or intended goal. It does not inherently carry the sense of abrogation or cessation but rather denotes bringing to full measure, realization, or consummation. For example, in Matthew 3:15, Jesus tells John the Baptist that it is necessary to "fulfill all righteousness" (πληρῶσαι πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην). Here, it is evident that Jesus is not annulling righteousness but embodying it fully. Likewise, in Matthew 5:17, He is stating that He has come to bring the Law to its full expression through His life, teachings, and redemptive work.

Jesus immediately follows His declaration in Matthew 5:17 with an emphatic assertion in verse 18: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." This statement establishes the enduring validity of the Law, as "heaven and earth passing away" is an eschatological phrase indicating the final renewal of creation (cf. Revelation 21:1). Since the created order still stands, the Law remains in force. The phrase "one jot or one tittle" underlines that even the smallest details of the Law remain authoritative.

Furthermore, Jesus' discourse in Matthew 5:21–48 repeatedly demonstrates how He intensifies and internalizes the Law, not abolishes it. His pattern of teaching—"You have heard that it was said... but I say to you..."—does not replace the Law with new precepts but restores its deeper, spiritual intent. This approach aligns with prophetic expectations that the Messiah would write the Law upon the hearts of His people (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26–27), rather than negate it.

The idea that "fulfilling" the Law equates to ending its requirements is hermeneutically untenable given biblical precedent. The Law, as an expression of God's character and moral order, is not something that can be abrogated without violating the nature of God Himself (cf. Psalm 119:89, Malachi 3:6). Instead, Jesus fulfills the Law by perfectly obeying it, thus embodying true righteousness (Isaiah 42:21), clarifying its original intent by moving beyond mere external adherence to a transformation of the heart, and establishing it as the standard for His disciples, as seen in Matthew 5:19, where He warns against relaxing even the least of its commandments.

The exegetical and theological evidence overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that πληρόω (plēróō) does not mean to terminate the Law but to bring it to its full expression. Jesus affirms the Law’s perpetual validity, corrects its misinterpretation, and enables His followers to live according to its divine principles. The enduring authority of the Law remains intact until heaven and earth pass away, reinforcing the inescapable reality that fulfillment in this context signifies continuity rather than annulment.

I will comment further tomorrow on some aspects of your reply. I prefer to address important defining biblical concepts one at a time.

Blessings.

"The Law", what does that signify to you? To me it signifies the approx. 613 commands God gave Israel. Those were the Laws that Jesus came into this World under. He observed all those laws that would pertain to the common man. He kept the feasts, new moons, weekly Sabbath, the kosher food laws and the law concerning blending fabric to name a few of the many Israelites were demanded to keep. If you do not believe all of those laws apply today, then please explain how you came about discarding the ones Jesus would have had to have kept..

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Yes, yes, yes just what I have been trying to get across to you. Jesus brought the prophesies concerning Him to its intended completeness. He fulfilled them and so there couldn't ever be anymore prophecies prophesying about that event. Since Law and prophesies are in the same sentence, we have to agree that the word fulfill relates the same to both accomplishments Jesus did while on this Earth

Dear Bob S
Jesus has not yet fulfilled all prophecies concerning Him because key events remain in the future. One of the clearest examples is found in Daniel 7:13-14, where the "Son of Man" is given dominion over all nations. While Jesus identified Himself as the Son of Man, this prophecy describes a future moment when He will receive an everlasting kingdom, ruling over all peoples and languages. This has not yet happened, proving that His mission is not yet complete.

The Restoration of Israel
Isaiah 11:10-12 speaks of a time when the Messiah will regather the scattered people of Israel from all the nations of the earth. While Jesus began the spiritual restoration of both Jews and Gentiles, the physical gathering of Israel under His reign has not yet occurred. The prophecy makes it clear that this will happen when He sets up His kingdom. Since this has not yet taken place, it is undeniable that not all prophecies concerning Him have been fulfilled.

The Reign of Peace and Justice
Isaiah 2:2-4 describes a future period when all nations will come to Jerusalem to seek God's law, and there will be no more war. This era of peace and righteousness is directly linked to the Messiah's rule. However, the world today is still full of violence and conflict, proving that this prophecy is yet to be fulfilled. If Jesus had already completed everything, we would be living in that promised time of peace, but we are not.

Jesus Prophesied His Own Return
In Matthew 24:30-31, Jesus Himself made it clear that His work was not finished. He spoke of a future time when He would return in power and glory, gathering His elect from all over the earth. This event has not yet taken place, further proving that His mission is ongoing. Many assume that "fulfillment" means everything was completed at His first coming, but Jesus explicitly stated that He would come again to finish what remains.

To conclude, while Jesus fulfilled many prophecies in His first coming, others are clearly awaiting future fulfillment. The establishment of His kingdom, the gathering of Israel, the reign of peace, and His return in glory are all prophetic events that have not yet happened. To claim that He has fulfilled all prophecies is incorrect and ignores the full scope of Scripture

"The Law", what does that signify to you? To me it signifies the approx. 613 commands God gave Israel. Those were the Laws that Jesus came into this World under. He observed all those laws that would pertain to the common man. He kept the feasts, new moons, weekly Sabbath, the kosher food laws and the law concerning blending fabric to name a few of the many Israelites were demanded to keep. If you do not believe all of those laws apply today, then please explain how you came about discarding the ones Jesus would have had to have kept..

The Role of the Law for Gentiles and the Covenant of the Ten Commandments
The question of whether Gentiles must follow all 613 laws of the Torah is directly addressed in Scripture. Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the Law, particularly the sacrificial and ceremonial aspects, by offering Himself as the perfect sacrifice. This fulfillment does not abolish God's moral standards but establishes that the covenantal obligations of the Mosaic Law, given specifically to Israel, do not apply in the same way to Gentiles who come to faith in the Messiah. The Law was given to Israel as a means of distinguishing them as a holy nation, but with the coming of Jesus, a new covenant was established, extending beyond Israel to include all nations. Gentiles who believe in Jesus are grafted into the family of God (Romans 11) and are called to follow the moral principles that reflect God's character, such as love, justice, and holiness, rather than strict adherence to the 613 laws.

The Jerusalem Council and Gentile Believers
In Acts 15, the apostles and elders met to decide whether Gentile believers were required to observe the full Mosaic Law, including circumcision and dietary restrictions. Peter, speaking under divine guidance, affirmed that salvation is through faith in Jesus and not through the works of the Law. He declared that God had purified the hearts of the Gentiles by faith, making no distinction between them and Jews. He warned against placing a yoke on the Gentiles that even Israel could not bear, emphasizing that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by the grace of Jesus. James, the leader of the Jerusalem church, confirmed that Gentiles were not to be burdened with the entire Mosaic system but should abstain from idolatry, sexual immorality, and consuming blood or strangled animals—practices that were particularly offensive in a Jewish context. This decision confirmed that righteousness comes through faith in Jesus rather than adherence to the 613 commandments, marking a clear distinction between the covenant of the Ten Commandments and the temporary laws given through Moses.

The Two Great Commandments and the Ten Commandments
When Jesus summarized the Law with the two greatest commandments—love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself—He was not introducing a new law but affirming the foundation of God's covenant, which is the Ten Commandments. These two principles encapsulate the entire moral law given by God, as they are directly rooted in the Ten Commandments. The first four commandments define what it means to love God: having no other gods, not making idols, not taking His name in vain, and keeping the Sabbath holy. The last six commandments define what it means to love one’s neighbor: honoring parents, not murdering, not committing adultery, not stealing, not bearing false witness, and not coveting. Jesus’ teaching was not a replacement of the Ten Commandments but a confirmation that they express the core of God's will for humanity.

The Ten Commandments as the Covenant
Unlike the rest of the laws given to Israel, the Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God Himself on stone tablets, signifying their permanence and divine authority. Exodus 34:28 explicitly states that these commandments are "the words of the covenant," distinguishing them from the other laws written by Moses. When God established His covenant with Israel, He did so through these commandments, given directly to the people at Mount Sinai. They were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, further emphasizing their unique and central role in the relationship between God and His people.

The Additional Laws Given Because of Rebellion
The rest of the Mosaic Law, which included ceremonial, civil, and judicial regulations, was given later as a response to Israel's disobedience and hardness of heart. After breaking the covenant by worshiping the golden calf, Israel showed that they were not ready to fully walk in obedience. Because of this rebellion, additional laws were introduced as a temporary measure to govern them, instruct them, and keep them separate from surrounding pagan nations. These laws included sacrifices, rituals, and other commands that served as a guardian until the coming of the Messiah. Jesus Himself acknowledged this when speaking about divorce, saying that Moses permitted it "because of the hardness of your hearts" (Matthew 19:8), showing that some laws were not part of God’s original intention but were allowances due to human weakness.

The Fulfillment of the Covenant Through Jesus
Jesus did not abolish the Ten Commandments but fulfilled their purpose by restoring the true understanding of their meaning. He emphasized that obedience to God is not just about outward observance but about the condition of the heart. The new covenant does not erase the Ten Commandments but rather writes them on the hearts of believers, as prophesied in Jeremiah 31:33. The moral law remains, while the additional laws given to Israel as a response to their rebellion are no longer required under the new covenant. Through Jesus, believers—both Jews and Gentiles—are called back to the original covenant, centered on loving God and loving one another, which is the essence of the Ten Commandments.

The two great commandments given by Jesus are a direct reflection of the Ten Commandments, which are the foundation of God’s covenant. These commandments, written by God Himself, remain the standard of righteousness, while the additional laws given through Moses were temporary regulations due to Israel’s disobedience. Under the new covenant, believers are called to follow the moral law of God, not through external regulations, but through a transformed heart that loves God and others as Jesus taught.

Blessings.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Dear Bob S,

Most of your questions that were left unanswered in this reply are, I hope answered in post no 39 of this thread. If I missed anything please let me know

I need to diverse for a moment. I was an SDA for almost 40 years, and they taught that if I left the church and stopped observing the Sabbath I would lose my eternal inheritance. That is salvation by works. If our salvation depends on keeping a day, I am convinced no one will be in Heaven. The Israelites couldn't, so why would anyone else believe it could be done. Only Jeus has ever accomplished keeping the covenant given at Sinai.

Personally not being part of the SDA church, what I know is from scripture only and nothings else.

From Scripture alone, it is clear that the fourth commandment is a special sign between God and His people, which includes both Jews and Gentiles who follow Him. In Exodus 31:13 (NKJV), God explicitly states:
"Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.’”

This verse confirms that the Sabbath is a unique sign of God's covenant with His people, distinguishing those who are set apart for Him. However, this sign was never meant to be exclusive to Israel alone. In Isaiah 56:6-7, God extends His covenant to the Gentiles who join themselves to Him:
"Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant—even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer."
This passage makes it clear that the Sabbath is not merely for ethnic Israel but for all who commit themselves to God.

In Exodus 16:4, God tested the Israelites with the Sabbath to see if they would obey His instructions:
"Then the Lord said to Moses, ‘Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.’”
This test revealed that obedience to God’s commandments was a critical measure of faithfulness. When some Israelites disobeyed and went out to gather manna on the Sabbath, God rebuked them in Exodus 16:28-29
"And the Lord said to Moses, ‘How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.’”

This demonstrates that the Sabbath was not a minor observance but a key issue of obedience.

From these passages, it is evident that obedience to God is key, and the Sabbath serves as a central test of that obedience. It is a sign of commitment to Him, and both Jews and Gentiles who follow Him are called to honor it.

Right, the Law was not irrelevant to the ones God gave them to. Abraham didn't have the Sinai covenant. He had a different set of laws to live by just as we also have different laws to live by.

The scripture does nor specify what Laws Abraham was given, we can only speculate, the main key in Abraham's story was absolute obedience to God, there are many verses about this here is one;

James 2:21-23 (NKJV)​

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.’ And he was called the friend of God."

This passage clarifies that Abraham's faith was demonstrated through his obedience, showing that faith and action go hand in hand

Obedience to God is a central and recurring theme throughout the entire Bible, highlighted from Genesis to Revelation as the defining characteristic of those who are faithful to Him. From the commands given to Adam and Eve, to the laws given to Israel, to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, obedience is consistently shown as the key to walking in God's will and receiving His blessings. Scripture repeatedly demonstrates that true faith is expressed through obedience, and disobedience leads to separation from God and His promises. Obedience will probably be the subject of my next thread.

Sorry Bob, for my slow responses I am very busy at his time taking care of my step mother, 95 years old living alone and needing quite a bit of help.

Blessings.