The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[Leaf473]

Brother, are you using this argument to not obey the biblical Sabbath and keep Sunday instead?

No, but thanks for asking, my brother

Does a child obey because he trusts in himself to be able to do everything his parents ask of him or does the child obey because he trusts his parents want what is best for him? Those that clearly disobey God's Sabbath are showing they do not trust God to lead them out of sin through His law. Sin is to disobey God and sin leads to death. To not sin is to obey God's law. Those like Abraham who have put their trust in obeying God are saved. Those who disobey God are lost to sin. For example, God knows I obey Him differently from David? Unlike David, I turn to the temple for forgiveness. Jesus has taught me how to get up again and again quickly when I fall until I no longer fall. It is not that I can never fall, but that I know what God expects from me when I fall, which David failed to do by not going to the temple. God expects me to ask for forgiveness in prayer to get up again and again until I no longer fall. If David had gone to the temple, he would have been saved from his sin, but because he did not go to the temple, David was lost to sin, until he gained a new faith through the prophet Nathan. David got forgiveness free of the works of the temple when he was forgiven for his new belief of being worthy of death for committing adultery with Bathsheba without having done the regular work at the temple for his forgiveness. What many think can only happen after Jesus happened to David before Jesus! I say again, what has been assumed as unique to the new covenant David experienced before the new covenant! Way before Jesus' death on the cross, David received "righteousness" for having believed, free of the regular work of animal sacrifices at the temple for the forgiveness of his past sin of adultery! Something everyone thinks only happens after Jesus happened to David before Jesus! David's free "righteousness" experience of getting "righteousness" free of the regular work of animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of the past sin of adultery took place before Jesus.

David was furious. “As surely as the LORD lives,” he vowed, “any man who would do such a thing deserves to die! He must repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity.” Then Nathan said to David, “You are that man! . . . Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “Yes, but the LORD has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. Nevertheless, because you have shown utter contempt for the word of the LORD by doing this, your child will die.” (2 Samuel 12:5-7a, 13-14 NLT)​

David gained initial forgiveness for his free of regular work "righteousness", having done no regular work at the temple when God counted his having "believed" he was worthy of death for adultery as equivalent to an act of "work" to complete his new faith of being worthy of death for breaking the Seventh Commandment of committing adultery with another man's wife. David gained forgiveness for his past sin of adultery without having done the regular work of animal sacrifices at the temple! What many think happens after Jesus, gaining free work credit of an act of "righteousness" without having done the regular work of animal sacrifices at the temple, happened to David before Jesus. David's experience of gaining an initial act of "righteousness" without having done the regular work of animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of his past sin of adultery was before Jesus!

When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are credited righteousness (work), not because of their work, but because of their faith/belief (pistis) in God who forgives sinners. David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are credited righteousness (work) without working for it: “Oh, what joy for those whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sins are put out of sight. Yes, what joy for those whose record the LORD has cleared of sin.” Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was credited righteousness (work) by God because of his faith/belief (pistis). But how did this happen? Was he credited righteousness (work) only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! (Romans 4:4-10 NLT fixed)​

Here are God's instructions for "keeping the Sabbath". We are warned that if we disobey the Sabbath we will "fall" like those who died in the desert.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

You ignore the work of the HS

Then every time you try to convince people to keep the sabbath, you are ignoring the work of the HS.

If the HS can instruct one how to keep it, He can instruct one to keep it.

 

[Gary K]

More people using the internet means more people have to be on the job to troubleshoot the inevitable problems.

More people on the road means more people driving tow trucks to take care of the inevitable crashes and breakdowns.

But sure, if it sounds pharisaical, we don't have to talk about it

It is Pharisaical. It says Sabbath keepers must walk everywhere on Sabbath and must not be able to witness online on Sabbath, plus it is very judgmental. Today it was raining so the only way to get to church would have soaked our great granddaughter and I would never be able to attend church since my legs are so weak I can't walk that far.

 

[Gary K]

Then every time you try to convince people to keep the sabbath, you are ignoring the work of the HS.

If the HS can instruct one how to keep it, He can instruct one to keep it.

How do you figure that? Telling people what I believe is anti HS?

Yes the HS can tell anyone and everyone how to keep it, but how many people listen to the HS? Very few,

 

[Leaf473]

It is Pharisaical.

And do you want to be talking about it?

It says Sabbath keepers must walk everywhere on Sabbath...

It looks to me that the Israelites were supposed to walk on the Sabbath. The animals get a rest.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:10 - New Living Translation

but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you.

www.biblegateway.com

...and must not be able to witness online on Sabbath,

It doesn't look to me like witnessing on the Sabbath is required in the Ten Commandments.

...plus it is very judgmental.

Again, it's up to you if you want to keep talking about it. My thinking is keeping the Sabbath is not about physical activities.

Today it was raining so the only way to get to church would have soaked our great granddaughter and I would never be able to attend church since my legs are so weak I can't walk that far.

Gathering together for worship isn't part of the Ten Commandments, that I can see. That comes from other parts of the law of Moses, imo.

 

[Gary K]

And do you want to be talking about it?


It looks to me that the Israelites were supposed to walk on the Sabbath. The animals get a rest.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:10 - New Living Translation

but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you.

www.biblegateway.com

It doesn't look to me like witnessing on the Sabbath is required in the Ten Commandments.


Again, it's up to you if you want to keep talking about it. My thinking is keeping the Sabbath is not about physical activities.


Gathering together for worship isn't part of the Ten Commandments, that I can see. That comes from other parts of the law of Moses, imo.

So? No activities/behaviors are implied in keeping the Sabbath holy?

So in your mind Sabbath keepers are required to live outside their own time and culture. Very Pharisaical attitude. on your part. You're very prejudiced.

Your thinking on the Sabbath makes no difference to me. You've made it extremely plain what you think of Sabbath keepers.

 

[Leaf473]

So? No activities/behaviors are implied in keeping the Sabbath holy?

According to the Ten Commandments, it's rest that separates it.

So in your mind Sabbath keepers are required to live outside their own time and culture.

It looks to me like that would be consistent. Of course, Jesus fulfilled the law, so we are no longer required to "keep" the Sabbath according to the letter.

I don't think it was up to individual Israelites to decide how to keep the Sabbath. It was the Levites that taught the law.

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 33:10 - New American Standard Bible

They will teach Your ordinances to Jacob, And Your Law to Israel. They shall put incense before You, And whole burnt offerings on Your altar.

www.biblegateway.com

Very Pharisaical attitude. on your part. You're very prejudiced.

I'm interested in talking about what the Bible says. If a person believes they are to keep the letter of the Ten Commandments, then keeping the Sabbath is about rest. To be consistent, it looks to me like people would want to encourage other people to rest, as well.

But everyone can do what they feel the spirit leading them to do, sure.

Your thinking on the Sabbath makes no difference to me. You've made it extremely plain what you think of Sabbath keepers.

Then peace be with you, my brother

 

[Leaf473]

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 68:19 - New American Standard Bible

Blessed be the Lord, who daily bears our burden, The God who is our salvation. Selah

www.biblegateway.com

 

[guevaraj]

Jesus fulfilled the law, so we are no longer required to "keep" the Sabbath according to the letter.

Brother, if Jesus had fulfilled everything the prophets said of Him, Judaism could not reject Jesus as the expected Messiah, but the fact is, Jesus did not fulfill all that the prophets said of Him before His death. This means the law remains in effect till Jesus returns to fulfill everything the prophets said of Him as written in the following passage.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose (the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to separate sin from our character). I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear (when God makes everything new), not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved (to separate sin from our character). So if you ignore the least commandment (the Sabbath) and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better (Eleven Commandments) than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees (Ten Commandments), you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

Without the resurrection allowing Jesus to be able to fulfill the rest that the prophets said of Him in the future, Jesus could not be the expected Messiah and, like Judaism, we should expect another. Jesus has not achieved everything the prophets said of Him and therefore the Ten Commandments remain as Jesus tells us above. The reason why Judaism does not accept Jesus is that Jesus has yet to hit the statue of Nebuchadnezzar: Jesus being the rock that will destroy all earlier kingdoms and establish a kingdom that will "never" end. Jesus will accomplish this writing of the prophets when He returns for those who will take part in the first resurrection. Paul's brevity in speaking of the law, without qualifying it, is misunderstood to take away the law of God when He has taken away the law of Judaism which sabotaged the purpose of God's law, so that it did not separate sin from our character, when keeping the sin the law of God is meant to eliminate leads to death.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

Interesting ideas. Many seventh day observers will drive a car or use the internet on Saturday.

This is why most of them refuse to define what they mean my “keeping” the sabbath.

 

[Mercy Shown]

It is Pharisaical. It says Sabbath keepers must walk everywhere on Sabbath and must not be able to witness online on Sabbath, plus it is very judgmental. Today it was raining so the only way to get to church would have soaked our great granddaughter and I would never be able to attend church since my legs are so weak I can't walk that far.

Then what do you mean by, “keep” the sabbath?

If someone insists that keeping the sabbath is a requirement they had better explain what that means in sufficient detail or else keeping the sabbath can just be a claim one makes.

 

[Mercy Shown]

How do you figure that? Telling people what I believe is anti HS?

Yes the HS can tell anyone and everyone how to keep it, but how many people listen to the HS? Very few,

Then you do not have a burden to tell others to keep the Sabbath because if they won’t listen to the Holy Spirit, they aren’t going to listen to a human.

Is there even a definition for keeping the sabbath other than don’t work? Of bourse there are exceptions to that that have been added.

 

[guevaraj]

This is why most of them refuse to define what they mean my “keeping” the sabbath.

Brother, I know from the following passage that being late by half a day prevents you from entering the Sabbath.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, if Jesus had fulfilled everything the prophets said of Him,,

Right, Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Not the law and the prophecies.

Peace be with you, my brother

...Judaism could not reject Jesus as the expected Messiah, but the fact is, Jesus did not fulfill all that the prophets said of Him before His death. This means the law remains in effect till Jesus returns to fulfill everything the prophets said of Him as written in the following passage.

“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose (the purpose of the Ten Commandments is to separate sin from our character). I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear (when God makes everything new), not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved (to separate sin from our character). So if you ignore the least commandment (the Sabbath) and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better (Eleven Commandments) than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees (Ten Commandments), you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)​

Without the resurrection allowing Jesus to be able to fulfill the rest that the prophets said of Him in the future, Jesus could not be the expected Messiah and, like Judaism, we should expect another. Jesus has not achieved everything the prophets said of Him and therefore the Ten Commandments remain as Jesus tells us above. The reason why Judaism does not accept Jesus is that Jesus has yet to hit the statue of Nebuchadnezzar: Jesus being the rock that will destroy all earlier kingdoms and establish a kingdom that will "never" end. Jesus will accomplish this writing of the prophets when He returns for those who will take part in the first resurrection. Paul's brevity in speaking of the law, without qualifying it, is misunderstood to take away the law of God when He has taken away the law of Judaism which sabotaged the purpose of God's law, so that it did not separate sin from our character, when keeping the sin the law of God is meant to eliminate leads to death.

In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands-- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. (Daniel 2:44-45a NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Gary K]

Then you do not have a burden to tell others to keep the Sabbath because if they won’t listen to the Holy Spirit, they aren’t going to listen to a human.

Is there even a definition for keeping the sabbath other than don’t work? Of bourse there are exceptions to that that have been added.

It's a wonder you don't think a Sabbath keeper is required to live in a tent, wear sandals year round, pick up sticks for a fire, cook over an open flame, pull water out of a well with a rope, wear robes, and all the rest that goes with living in the desert 2000 years before Christ.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, I know from the following passage that being late by half a day prevents you from entering the Sabbath.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

There is no mention of a half a day in this passage. The passage is based on Psalms 95:8-11, which reads like this:
Today, if only you would hear his voice,
8 “Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,
as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

Meribah was a place in the desert where the people refused to believe that God was leading them, and they rebelled. God told Moses to speak to a rock, and it would bring forth water, but Moses, in his anger, struck the rock twice, and water still gushed out.

Hebrews 4 refers to this example when explaining why the nation of Israel did not enter His rest. However, Hebrews 4 states that there is a new opportunity for God's people to enter His rest, which is today. The rest that was forfeited at Meribah was not the seventh-day Sabbath; it was the Sabbath of the promised land. The seventh-day Sabbath is an example of that rest. Just as God rested from His works, we are to rest from ours by faith in Jesus great sacrifice.

 

[Mercy Shown]

It's a wonder you don't think a Sabbath keeper is required to live in a tent, wear sandals year round, pick up sticks for a fire, cook over an open flame, pull water out of a well with a rope, wear robes, and all the rest that goes with living in the desert 2000 years before Christ.

This is where we get to the nut of the matter. Telling others they ought to keep the sabbath is a general statement. You see, none of us know if you keep the sabbath since it is only a verbal claim you have made. You have shown that you adjust the demands of "sabbath keeping" to fit your modern lifestyle.

But how far does that go? How much can I adjust before I break the sabbath, and who judges that? Me? Let's look at some adjustments.

Sabbath Activities

1. Eat a heavy meal of carbs and fat, then nap in the afternoon.
2. Go to work because you feel it is necessary work.
3. Take the kids out swimming.
4. Put on headphones and listen to a sermon while riding your lawnmower around the yard.
5. Go Snorkeling
6. etc

Now if I say, "Well, that's just nitpicking." Then, I must be free to define "sabbath-keeping" however I please. On the other hand, if I find my rest in Christ and seek His righteousness and Kingdom first, will not all else be added to me? I may learn to love the day God made for me, but I won't insist others keep it.

The danger in Law-Keeping is that in doing so, we may forfeit Christ-Keeping. If we have Christ, we are new creatures and stand perfect before God. Perfected forever by His one sacrifice. If I then keep a day onto the Lord, no other brother or sister should judge me, but if they count all days the same, I should not judge them.

Once we set up anything other than Christ in our hearts that we believe adds to our chances of salvation, we have set up an idol, and we will judge others who do not believe as we do.

 

[Gary K]

This is where we get to the nut of the matter. Telling others they ought to keep the sabbath is a general statement. You see, none of us know if you keep the sabbath since it is only a verbal claim you have made. You have shown that you adjust the demands of "sabbath keeping" to fit your modern lifestyle.

But how far does that go? How much can I adjust before I break the sabbath, and who judges that? Me? Let's look at some adjustments.

Sabbath Activities

1. Eat a heavy meal of carbs and fat, then nap in the afternoon.
2. Go to work because you feel it is necessary work.
3. Take the kids out swimming.
4. Put on headphones and listen to a sermon while riding your lawnmower around the yard.
5. Go Snorkeling
6. etc

Now if I say, "Well, that's just nitpicking." Then, I must be free to define "sabbath-keeping" however I please. On the other hand, if I find my rest in Christ and seek His righteousness and Kingdom first, will not all else be added to me? I may learn to love the day God made for me, but I won't insist others keep it.

The danger in Law-Keeping is that in doing so, we may forfeit Christ-Keeping. If we have Christ, we are new creatures and stand perfect before God. Perfected forever by His one sacrifice. If I then keep a day onto the Lord, no other brother or sister should judge me, but if they count all days the same, I should not judge them.

Once we set up anything other than Christ in our hearts that we believe adds to our chances of salvation, we have set up an idol, and we will judge others who do not believe as we do.

How many people who don't murder someone forfeit Christ? It is God who sanctifies us, makes us more like Him. Your argument falls flat on it's face when you apply it to the entire law like I did from Jeremiah 7. You base your entire thesis relies on there being only imputed righteousness when the Bible clearly teaches differently.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Paul has this to say.

Ephesians 2: 1 AND you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Are you a child of disobedience? Or are you one who in times past fulfilled the lists of our flesh and by nature a child of wrath? Is your old man dead or fully alive and kicking?

2Corinthians 5: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

righteousness = [*StrongsGreek*]
01343
δικαιοσύνη dikaiosýnē, dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342;
equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.

sanctification = [*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

Jesus is made unto us wisdom, justification, a purifier who purifies us. and redemption.

So how likely is it someone whom Jesus is purifying will forfeit Jesus as that takes a deep relationship? What did Paul say along these lines?

1Corinthians 15: 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Paul's old man had to die daily. Are you more spiritual than Paul?

 

[guevaraj]

Meribah was a place in the desert where the people refused to believe that God was leading them, and they rebelled. God told Moses to speak to a rock, and it would bring forth water, but Moses, in his anger, struck the rock twice, and water still gushed out. Hebrews 4 refers to this example when explaining why the nation of Israel did not enter His rest. However, Hebrews 4 states that there is a new opportunity for God's people to enter His rest, which is today. The rest that was forfeited at Meribah was not the seventh-day Sabbath; it was the Sabbath of the promised land. The seventh-day Sabbath is an example of that rest. Just as God rested from His works, we are to rest from ours by faith in Jesus great sacrifice.

Brother, you have the reason God was angry with them and made an "oath" to punish them, but not how God accomplished His punishment with Manna in the desert so that those who died, "they will never enter my place of rest". Importantly, Joshua was among those punished in the desert with Manna who entered the promised land, yet did not give Israel this another "day" of rest still to come. The rest cannot be the promised land for those that died in the desert because Joshua entered the promised land but did not succeed in giving Israel this another "day" of rest still to come. This was a punishment in addition to not letting them enter the promised land for 40 years with Manna in the desert.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Paul tells us what he means by his use of the word "rest". "Rest" in this passage does not mean anything other than what Paul tells us he means in the following passage; the rest of God on the seventh "day" of creation. The passage reveals that Judaism has not fully understood God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation to enter God's "day" of rest outside of Jerusalem like here in the United States. They have a human tradition of the Sabbath and not the true biblical Sabbath since creation. What I learned is that when God made the seventh day of creation holy, He separated that "day" from the week, fixing His "day" of rest in the time zone of Eden and that is why Jerusalem remembers the Sabbath half a day earlier than the true seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, the days of the week being from morning to morning and not from evening to evening.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Gary K]

@Mercy Shown

Do works have anything to do with our salvation? Jesus says they do.

Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

What is this does away with the idea what we do has nothing to do salvation as every man is judged according his works.

Revelation 22: 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

What else does Jesus say about salvation?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So knowing God is salvation. It isn't justification. It is knowing God. i.e. having a relationship with Him, who is purifying us. Jesus is our one stop source of salvation. Without that personal purifying relationship we are lost.