American Tract Society & the American Sunday School Union Agree ~

[Leaf473]

I know of people who thought they were serious devout Christians and they have walked away from God. It's happened to good friends of mine. One couple went into eastern mysticism and began sleeping around. The wife actually offered herself to me on a silver platter in front of him.. The other couple began drinking and the husband has turned into a big nosed alky. I've known both couples since high school.

Would you describe such people as serious, devout Christians?

Then you need to watch them as they do a very good job of explaining how the devil scrambles our brains.

I don't doubt that the devil is good at twisting things. But we have the mind of Christ

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:16 - New American Standard Bible

For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

www.biblegateway.com

Also,

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:6 - New American Standard Bible

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

www.biblegateway.com

There are mature Christians who do not participate in the wisdom of this age.

 

[Gary K]

Would you describe such people as serious, devout Christians?


I don't doubt that the devil is good at twisting things. But we have the mind of Christ

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:16 - New American Standard Bible

For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

www.biblegateway.com

Also,

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:6 - New American Standard Bible

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

www.biblegateway.com

There are mature Christians who do not participate in the wisdom of this age.

There are many people who think they are serious devout Christians who are not. The guy in my last post whose wife offered herself to me I introduced to Jesus. It was only after decades of his wife and he falling into eastern mysticism they began the free sex lifestyle. I also knew his parents. He came out of a Christian family. So did the guy and his wife who became an alky.

Why is it we can't even agree on what is to be written on our hearts? Why that huge difference between us? You are on the side of popular Christianity and Jesus tells us broad is the way that leads to destruction. It's always been that way. Before the flood. The coi in the wilderness, The nations of Israel and Judah were apostatized far more than than they were followers of God. The wisest man who ever lived was overcome by the devil. He had supernatural wisdom but was still no match for the devil. Are you supernaturally wiser than Solomon that you think you cannot be overcome by the devil?

I was overcome by the devil for years and I am still paying the price for it. I did some very bizarre things under his influence which I didn't realize were bizarre at the time. He can wrap us around his little finger.

 

[Gary K]

So you never watch tv or movies and also never listen to secular music?

 

[Leaf473]

There are many people who think they are serious devout Christians who are not.

I'm not asking about people who think they are serious, devout Christians. I'm asking about people that you describe that way

The guy in my last post whose wife offered herself to me I introduced to Jesus. It was only after decades of his wife and he falling into eastern mysticism they began the free sex lifestyle. I also knew his parents. He came out of a Christian family. So did the guy and his wife who became an alky.

Why is it we can't even agree on what is to be written on our hearts?
Why that huge difference between us?

Actually, I believe we did agree at some point in the past that the principles of the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts

You are on the side of popular Christianity and Jesus tells us broad is the way that leads to destruction. It's always been that way. Before the flood. The coi in the wilderness, The nations of Israel and Judah were apostatized far more than than they were followers of God. The wisest man who ever lived was overcome by the devil. He had supernatural wisdom but was still no match for the devil. Are you supernaturally wiser than Solomon that you think you cannot be overcome by the devil?

Ad hominem, personal attacks... There's no need for those things in a respectful, edifying discussion

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:29 - New American Standard Bible

Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

www.biblegateway.com

I was overcome by the devil for years and I am still paying the price for it. I did some very bizarre things under his influence which I didn't realize were bizarre at the time. He can wrap us around his little finger.

Assuming that the devil can deceive us about what is on our mind, how does anyone become a serious, devout (or mature) Christian?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:6 - New American Standard Bible

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

So you never watch tv or movies and also never listen to secular music?

Some, not a lot

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 5:9-10 - New American Standard Bible

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people; I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to leave the world.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

I'm not asking about people who think they are serious, devout Christians. I'm asking about people that you describe that way



Actually, I believe we did agree at some point in the past that the principles of the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts


Ad hominem, personal attacks... There's no need for those things in a respectful, edifying discussion

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:29 - New American Standard Bible

Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

www.biblegateway.com

Assuming that the devil can deceive us about what is on our mind, how does anyone become a serious, devout (or mature) Christian?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:6 - New American Standard Bible

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

www.biblegateway.com

How am I personally attacking you? Solomon was supernaturally wise and was overcome by the devil. You have refused to even look at the evidence I've given you so it's apparent to me that you think you are wiser than Solomon.

By learning what you are avoiding even looking at.

 

[Leaf473]

How am I personally attacking you?

Here -

You are on the side of popular Christianity and Jesus tells us broad is the way that leads to destruction.

You say that I personally am on the path to destruction..

Solomon was supernaturally wise and was overcome by the devil.

Solomon wasn't born again.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 7:28 - New American Standard Bible

I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

www.biblegateway.com

You have refused to even look at the evidence I've given you so it's apparent to me that you think you are wiser than Solomon.

I have looked at the evidence you presented. It doesn't appear to me to refute the idea that we know what is in our minds and written on our hearts.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New American Standard Bible

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

www.biblegateway.com

By learning what you are avoiding even looking at.

Are some words missing? That appears to be a sentence fragment.

Peace be with you

 

[Gary K]

Here -

You say that I personally am on the path to destruction..


Solomon wasn't born again.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 7:28 - New American Standard Bible

I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

www.biblegateway.com

I have looked at the evidence you presented. It doesn't appear to me to refute the idea that we know what is in our minds and written on our hearts.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:10 - New American Standard Bible

FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

www.biblegateway.com

Are some words missing? That appears to be a sentence fragment.

Peace be with you

As a sincere devout Christian I do everything I can to escape the clutches of the devil including educating myself as to his deceptions and methods of implanting his ideas into my brain.

John 3: 1 THERE was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Jesus castigated Nicodemus for not knowing he needed to be born again. So howdo you know Solomon wasn't?

Here is his father's prayer for forgiveness for his affair with Bathsheba. It appears to me David understood the concept of being born again very well.

Psalm 51: 1 HAVE mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

 

[Leaf473]

As a sincere devout Christian I do everything I can to escape the clutches of the devil including educating myself as to his deceptions and methods of implanting his ideas into my brain.

John 3: 1 THERE was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Jesus castigated Nicodemus for not knowing he needed to be born again. So howdo you know Solomon wasn't?

Here is his father's prayer for forgiveness for his affair with Bathsheba. It appears to me David understood the concept of being born again very well.

Psalm 51: 1 HAVE mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

We are born again by water and the Spirit.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:5-6 - New American Standard Bible

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit.

www.biblegateway.com

At the time of Solomon and Nicodemus, the Spirit was not yet given.

Bible Gateway passage: John 7:39 - New American Standard Bible

But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

www.biblegateway.com

We are born again through the resurrection.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 1:3 - New American Standard Bible

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

We are born again by water and the Spirit.

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:5-6 - New American Standard Bible

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit.

www.biblegateway.com

At the time of Solomon and Nicodemus, the Spirit was not yet given.

Bible Gateway passage: John 7:39 - New American Standard Bible

But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

www.biblegateway.com

We are born again through the resurrection.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 1:3 - New American Standard Bible

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

www.biblegateway.com

The OT disagrees with you. Psalm 51. Is Jesus unjust and a liar? The only way that is possible is if He judged Nicodemus unjustly.

Do you think the book of Psalms is not inspired?

 

[Leaf473]

The OT disagrees with you. Psalm 51.

I think 51 is speaking of the Spirit in a different way.

Something changes when Jesus goes to the Father

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:25-26 - New American Standard Bible

“These things I have spoken to you while remaining with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

www.biblegateway.com

Is Jesus unjust and a liar?

No.

The only way that is possible is if He judged Nicodemus unjustly.

I don't think he's judging Nicodemus, there. I think he's challenging him to a bigger view of God

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:8-9 - New American Standard Bible

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

www.biblegateway.com

Do you think the book of Psalms is not inspired?

I think the book of Psalms is inspired.

Peace be with you, my brother

 

[Gary K]

I think 51 is speaking of the Spirit in a different way.

Something changes when Jesus goes to the Father

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:25-26 - New American Standard Bible

“These things I have spoken to you while remaining with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

www.biblegateway.com

No.


I don't think he's judging Nicodemus, there. I think he's challenging him to a bigger view of God

Bible Gateway passage: John 3:8-9 - New American Standard Bible

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

www.biblegateway.com

I think the book of Psalms is inspired.

Peace be with you, my brother

Yeah, Pentacost was the early rain but the HS was working before that or there would have never been anyone following God for conversion comes only through the work of the HS. It was a special out pouring of the HS.. There will also be a latter rain at the close of time.

 

[Leaf473]

Yeah, Pentacost was the early rain but the HS was working before that or there would have never been anyone following God for conversion comes only through the work of the HS. It was a special out pouring of the HS.. There will also be a latter rain at the close of time.

Absolutely the Holy Spirit was working before that!

We were talking about being born again by water and the Spirit, being in the New Covenant, and what is in the minds and written on the hearts of sincere, devout Christians in the New Covenant.

Do you believe the devil is able to deceive serious, devout Christians who have been born again by water and the Spirit and are in the New Covenant about what is in their minds and written on their hearts?

 

[Gary K]

Absolutely the Holy Spirit was working before that!

We were talking about being born again by water and the Spirit, being in the New Covenant, and what is in the minds and written on the hearts of sincere, devout Christians in the New Covenant.

Do you believe the devil is able to deceive serious, devout Christians who have been born again by water and the Spirit and are in the New Covenant about what is in their minds and written on their hearts?

Here is a video by a former hip hop star who was awarded a large contract by EMI. He was doing "Christian" hip hop. He speaks to the influence of music on us and how the devil uses it. He is now a pastor.

 

[Leaf473]

Here is a video by a former hip hop star who was awarded a large contract by EMI. He was doing "Christian" hip hop. He speaks to the influence of music on us and how the devil uses it. He is now a pastor.

If that's a Yes that
you do
believe that
the devil is able to deceive serious, devout Christians
who have been born again by water and the Spirit
and are in the New Covenant
about what is in their minds and written on their hearts,
then that's where we disagree

Peace be with you, my brother and my friend

 

[Gary K]

If that's a Yes that
you do
believe that
the devil is able to deceive serious, devout Christians
who have been born again by water and the Spirit
and are in the New Covenant
about what is in their minds and written on their hearts,
then that's where we disagree

Peace be with you, my brother and my friend

Did you watch the video?

 

[Leaf473]

Did you watch the video?

I watched parts of it. It's 2 hours long

Does the gentleman say that Satan's power to deceive is greater than God's power to place and to write?

 

[Gary K]

I watched parts of it. It's 2 hours long

Does the gentleman say that Satan's power to deceive is greater than God's power to place and to write?

No. He says the devil's power to deceive when we aren't aware of His devices is tremendous. The history of our world confirms this. Adam and Even were created sinless. in God's spiritual image, and he deceived them when they had no sinful flesh to deal with. Not only that he deceived 1/3 of the angels who lived in the very presence of God into believing that God was wrong and responsible for sin.

Anyone who thinks they are capable of recognizing every deception of the devil with our sinful flesh is being deceived by the devil. His favorite deception for the world is that he doesn't exist and his next favorite is to convince Christians that we are capable of detecting his every deception and that obedience to God is unnecessary.

The music Ivor played bypasses the left brain and is stored in the right brain along with the messages in the lyrics. It's like watching tv or movies in that it hypnotizes us which means someone else is in control of our decisions without us knowing it.

 

[Leaf473]

No. He says the devil's power to deceive when we aren't aware of His devices is tremendous. The history of our world confirms this. Adam and Even were created sinless. in God's spiritual image, and he deceived them when they had no sinful flesh to deal with. Not only that he deceived 1/3 of the angels who lived in the very presence of God into believing that God was wrong and responsible for sin.

Anyone who thinks they are capable of recognizing every deception of the devil with our sinful flesh is being deceived by the devil. His favorite deception for the world is that he doesn't exist and his next favorite is to convince Christians that we are capable of detecting his every deception and that obedience to God is unnecessary.

The music Ivor played bypasses the left brain and is stored in the right brain along with the messages in the lyrics. It's like watching tv or movies in that it hypnotizes us which means someone else is in control of our decisions without us knowing it.

I don't think we can detect every deception of the devil.

Does the music erase what is put in our minds and written on our hearts?

 

[Gary K]

I don't think we can detect every deception of the devil.

Does the music erase what is put in our minds and written on our hearts?

Yes. The wrong type of music. Don't you know anything about the effects of hypnotism?