Wicked Lose your salvation Documentary on YouTube promoting a works based salvation

[Guojing]

Jesus Christ told us how he will judge us. If we are worthy to inherit eternal life, we will inherit eternal life. If we are not worthy, we will be with the goats in hellfire.

I haven't anything to do with being "that 'kind' of gift giver."

I am just reminding people of what Jesus said. I choose to believe what he said. John 5:22 His apostles taught the same thing. 2 Corinthians 5:10 You can choose to believe him, or not. I choose to believe him.

I think many people will be shocked to hear the following from Jesus because they believe that once saved, is always saved, and so they continue to sin the same sins they did before they "called on the name of the Lord."

Matthew 7:21-24 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’ Ezekiel 33:12

Christians who live a double life carry their bibles to church, sing hymns, and pray to God, but they choose to disobey God's commandments when they are not in church. If they do not repent of their sins before they die, they will not inherit eternal life.

Luke 13:25-28 When once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then in reply he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrown out.

Christians who claim Jesus as their Lord, but do evil things and do not repent of these sins before they die will not inherit eternal life.

This is not my gospel. This is the gospel that Jesus and his disciples taught.

Well, Jesus and his disciples were preaching about the kingdom to Israel in his first coming.

Entering that kingdom is not a gift from God.

As you said, they have to repent, be water baptized, and keep the Law, to qualify to enter that kingdom.

 

[Jan001]

Well, Jesus and his disciples were preaching about the kingdom to Israel in his first coming.

Entering that kingdom is not a gift from God.

The Father sent Jesus to be crucified in order to redeem mankind from Adam's sin. There had to be atonement for Adam's sin in order for anyone to have the possibility of inheriting eternal life. After we are first saved, we can then hope to inherit eternal life. Salvation is a lifetime process. We must remain faithful until we die if we want to be judged worthy to inherit eternal life. Revelation 2:10

As you said, they have to repent, be water baptized, and keep the Law, to qualify to enter that kingdom.

Yes. We must keep Christ's law. Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21
Christ fulfilled (ended) the Law of Moses. Romans 10:4

 

[Guojing]

The Father sent Jesus to be crucified in order to redeem mankind from Adam's sin. There had to be atonement for Adam's sin in order for anyone to have the possibility of inheriting eternal life. After we are first saved, we can then hope to inherit eternal life. Salvation is a lifetime process. We must remain faithful until we die if we want to be judged worthy to inherit eternal life. Revelation 2:10

Yes. We must keep Christ's law. Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21
Christ fulfilled (ended) the Law of Moses. Romans 10:4

You do agree with me that, under the gospel of the kingdom, salvation was certainly not a gift offered to Israel?

 

[Jan001]

You do agree with me that, under the gospel of the kingdom, salvation was certainly not a gift offered to Israel?

No, I cannot agree with that statement.

Israel (the Jews) were offered the kingdom first. Many of them rejected Jesus' gift of salvation. The OT prophets prophesied that Israel's Messiah would come. He did, but many of them rejected him.

Matthew 2:6 ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.’

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you (the unbelieving Jews) and given to a nation (the believing Gentiles) bearing the fruits of it.

 

[Guojing]

No, I cannot agree with that statement.

Israel (the Jews) were offered the kingdom first. Many of them rejected Jesus' gift of salvation. The OT prophets prophesied that Israel's Messiah would come. He did, but many of them rejected him.

Matthew 2:6 ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.’

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you (the unbelieving Jews) and given to a nation (the believing Gentiles) bearing the fruits of it.

You define a gift differently from others.

Something that is given but requires conditions to keep it, is not a gift.

Try telling your kids "I am giving you a gift, but if you are naughty afterwards, I will take it back", and hear their response.

 

[Jeff Carr]

This wicked documentary saying "OSAS false" (once saved always saved) teaching a lose your salvation, works salvation false gospel, is out there and listen it is wicked. Nobody in that entire video is saved, every single one is a false teacher who will split hell wide open and is a wicked devil going straight to hell busting hell wide open at lightning speed lowest hell and the saints will rejoice when they are thrown into Lake of fire. Jesus said I give them eternal life they shall never perish John 10:28

The people in this video are going straight to hell when they die, the lowest hell, don't follow them there!

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus died buried rose again shed his precious blood on the cross to pay for our sins. we simply Believe on him for the free gift of eternal life, by grace through faith.

Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

All liars so if you tell one lie you're damned. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I've know I've lied before, we have all lied before and we have all done worse than lying let's face it.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Salvation is grace through faith whosoever believeth in Jesus hath eternal life. Jesus paid it all. Amen the good news of the gospel is that Jesus took our sins and died for them.

Will you call on the name of Jesus, ask him to be saved? Say this prayer dear Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and deserve hell, but I believe in you and ask for the free gift of salvation, your word says whosoever believeth, and well, I believeth in you, that you died buried rose again for my sins, I call on your name Lord Jesus and ask to be saved, will you save me? I am only trusting in you Jesus, thank you for saving me, amen.

If you prayed that prayer and meant it in your heart, the bible says you are saved and have eternal life that can never be lost you can trust Jesus Christ for your salvation.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


How to go to heaven simply explained, I hope to see you there!:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved! amen

I watched the video right through. I could not fault it. Thought they handled the subject with grace and accuracy.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I watched the video right through. I could not fault it. Thought they handled the subject with grace and accuracy.

Yes, "Once Saved, Always Saved" is clearly false to anyone who is honest with themselves when they read the Bible. There are many warning passages about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife unless we repent. Folks who are OSAS are clearly looking for the easy, wide-gate path. My only hang-up when I started watching the video was that Dr. Michael Brown was in it. Dr. Brown is a Charismatic leader who was a part of the controversial Brownsville revival. The Charismatic movement is off the charts, to begin with. But yes, OSAS is unbiblical. Another strike against the video is that I think the video should immediately start with Scripture. It has lost my interest, and I am firmly against OSAS. I am sure it may pick up, but the point here is that videos need to grab a person's attention, or they will lose their audience. While not all OSAS believers are the same, and there are some who believe in doing good, the inevitable outcome is that it can lead others to turn God's grace into a license to sin that is blatant and wrong. George Sodini would be an example of this. Also, I provided a list of tons of verses in 4 categories that refute OSAS. You can check that out again in my previous post in this thread here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I watched the video right through. I could not fault it. Thought they handled the subject with grace and accuracy.

Also, take note that there are Christians who are against OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved), and yet they believe they can sin and still be saved, just like the OSAS folk. Free Will Baptists would be such a group that holds this view. They believe the only way to fall away is to stop believing in Jesus or to reject Him. But sin? Yeah, they can do that to their heart's content and still enter through the gates of Heaven. This, of course, is wrong, and people should know it is wrong. You don't even need a Bible to know that is wrong.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yes, "Once Saved, Always Saved" is clearly false to anyone who is honest with themselves when they read the Bible. There are many warning passages about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife unless we repent. Folks who are OSAS are clearly looking for the easy, wide-gate path.

I don't find that to be the case with the many I've come across in real life and here on CF. Others however strike me as carnal. The kinds of verses you're talking about are what they call "clobber verses". They strike me as very liberal and humanistic. When it comes to certain threads, like ones dealing with LGBTXYZ and transexuals for example, they pretty much sound like the non-christians in the discussion.

But when it comes to the conservative OSAS Christians, they seem to have a much better handle on obedience and righteousness based on what they have to say. So really I think maybe that's a key factor. How conservative they are vs how liberal they are. Also I think a lot can be said for Christians who believe they're saved no matter what, yet they still behave as Christians should.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Also, take note that there are Christians who are against OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved), and yet they believe they can sin and still be saved, just like the OSAS folk. Free Will Baptists would be such a group that holds this view. They believe the only way to fall away is to stop believing in Jesus or to reject Him. But sin? Yeah, they can do that to their heart's content and still enter through the gates of Heaven. This, of course, is wrong, and people should know it is wrong. You don't even need a Bible to know that is wrong.

I don't see how it would be possible to have a relationship with Jesus and have that kind of attitude.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't find that to be the case with the many I've come across in real life and here on CF. Others however strike me as carnal. The kinds of verses you're talking about are what they call "clobber verses". They strike me as very liberal and humanistic. When it comes to certain threads, like ones dealing with LGBTXYZ and transexuals for example, they pretty much sound like the non-christians in the discussion.

But when it comes to the conservative OSAS Christians, they seem to have a much better handle on obedience and righteousness based on what they have to say. So really I think maybe that's a key factor. How conservative they are vs how liberal they are. Also I think a lot can be said for Christians who believe they're saved no matter what, yet they still behave as Christians should.

I am not saying this is always the case. I do know of an OSAS believer personally, and he comes off as godly. But I have been in tons of discussions on OSAS or Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism (i.e., The Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief), and when push comes to shove, they will defend sin or the idea they can sin and still be saved on some level. (Note: Please keep in mind that I have been fighting against the OSAS belief since 2011; So this is not my first rodeo). Anyway, the problem is that the OSAS Proponent will admit that if a believer who generally lived a holy life looked upon a woman in lust and then got hit by a bus and died before they confessed their sin, they are still saved. When push comes to shove, they will use 1 John 1:8 as a banner flag to justify sin (When that is not what this verse is even talking about).

If you go to Gotquestion's article on the backslidden Christian, they will speak out of two sides of their mouth. They will say that a true believer is characterized as living a holy life but then double-speak and say that the prodigal believer (like the prodigal son) was still saved while they were living in sin.

Here is the article:

Is a backsliding Christian still saved? | GotQuestions.org

Is a backsliding / backslidden Christian still saved? How far can a true Christian backslide?

www.gotquestions.org

So, upholding a standard of morality is a mirage or an illusion in the OSAS belief system.
It is also unbiblical because Proverbs 28:13 says you have to confess and forsake sin to have mercy.

Jesus warns that certain types of people will appear in sheep's clothing. So, if they seem good and godly on the outside, it is not always the real test. It is their belief in what they proclaim and whether that lines up with the Bible or not. If they claim they can abide in grievous sin on some level with the thinking they are still saved, we know they are in error because the Word of God clearly exposes such a false belief ten times over.

They need only look at Galatians 6:8-9, 1 Timothy 5:8, Titus 1:16, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:19-21, etcetera.

Jesus warned about how looking upon a woman in lust will cause a person to be cast bodily into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus said, if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). The apostle Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. So obviously, believers should not speak against the words of Jesus when He warned how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't see how it would be possible to have a relationship with Jesus and have that kind of attitude.

Okay, I may be going overboard here. I have not done a survey or anything. Maybe not all of them think that way, but there are always going to be those who do, and times are only getting worse spiritually. The real deception is that while there are many well-intentioned Christians who may desire to do good while under God's grace, if they don't believe sin will separate a believer from God, then some level or amount of sin will be justified. They can love the things of this world, chase after riches, lie a little, or cuss and not really worry about such things. They may even look upon women in lust and think that it is only natural. There will always be some sin they think is small, and they say it is not a big deal. They will pat themselves on the back and may say something like, "Hey, I do not murder, rape, abuse people, kick dogs across the room like a football, and so I am okay with the LORD."

Many Christians have told me that they sin in thought and deed multiple times a day, and there would be no hope for them unless they just believed in the finished work of the cross. This belief is comforting and yet deceptive because it goes against tons of warnings about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife by both Jesus and the apostle Paul in Holy Scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't find that to be the case with the many I've come across in real life and here on CF. Others however strike me as carnal. The kinds of verses you're talking about are what they call "clobber verses". They strike me as very liberal and humanistic. When it comes to certain threads, like ones dealing with LGBTXYZ and transexuals for example, they pretty much sound like the non-christians in the discussion.

But when it comes to the conservative OSAS Christians, they seem to have a much better handle on obedience and righteousness based on what they have to say. So really I think maybe that's a key factor. How conservative they are vs how liberal they are. Also I think a lot can be said for Christians who believe they're saved no matter what, yet they still behave as Christians should.

Remember, it only took one sin by Adam for mankind to fall. After the fall, sin spread like cancer or like wildfire. The serpent wanted to convince Eve she could break God's command and not die. Yet, this same lie is being pushed by the devil today.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Anyway, the problem is that the OSAS Proponent will admit that if a believer who generally lived a holy life looked upon a woman in lust and then got hit by a bus and died before they confessed their sin, they are still saved.

Virtually all of Christianity believes that. Sorry to have snipped the rest of your post, but that statement indicates you're going with the polar opposite of hyper-grace. I don't know what to call it, and I can't think of any denomonation or sect that teaches it.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Okay, I may be going overboard here. I have not done a survey or anything.
Maybe not all of them think that way, but there are always going to be those who do, and times are only getting worse spiritually. The real deception is that while there are many well-intentioned Christians who may desire to do good while under God's grace, if they don't believe sin will separate a believer from God, then some level or amount of sin will be justified. They can love the things of this world, chase after riches, lie a little, or cuss and not really worry about such things. They may even look upon women in lust and think that it is only natural. There will always be some sin they think is small, and they say it is not a big deal. They will pat themselves on the back and may say something like, "Hey, I do not murder, rape, abuse people, kick dogs across the room like a football, and so I am okay with the LORD."

That shows a lacking of a relationship with Jesus and a lack of an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Many Christians have told me that they sin in thought and deed multiple times a day, and there would be no hope for them unless they just believed in the finished work of the cross. This belief is comforting and yet deceptive because it goes against tons of warnings about how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife by both Jesus and the apostle Paul in Holy Scripture.

I'd say it depends on the level of awareness the faithful Christian has of their sinful nature and how much they anguish over it. A faithful Christian will admit they deserve hell and are totally dependent on the finished work of the cross. I'm talking about those who believe anything whatsoever short of pure holiness deserves hell.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Virtually all of Christianity believes that. Sorry to have snipped the rest of your post, but that statement indicates you're going with the polar opposite of hyper-grace. I don't know what to call it, and I can't think of any denomonation or sect that teaches it.

Uh, Jesus and His followers taught Conditional Salvation. I mentioned a few verses for you to look at.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That shows a lacking of a relationship with Jesus and a lack of an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

This is just an ad hominem, and this is not an argument based on Scripture for your belief system.

I'd say it depends on the level of awareness the faithful Christian has of their sinful nature and how much they anguish over it. A faithful Christian will admit they deserve hell and are totally dependent on the finished work of the cross. I'm talking about those who believe anything whatsoever short of pure holiness deserves hell.

There is no verse or passage that says to be dependent upon the finished work of the cross. Even when you say that a believer may feel they are deserving of hell, they don't think they are going to hell if they abide in sin as long as they believe in Jesus as their Savior. Again, Jesus warns that if you even look at a woman in lust, you are in danger of being cast bodily into hellfire. This does not align with the thinking of most Modern-day Christian groups. This is why narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

 

[Jan001]

You define a gift differently from others.

Something that is given but requires conditions to keep it, is not a gift.

Try telling your kids "I am giving you a gift, but if you are naughty afterwards, I will take it back", and hear their response.

The gift from Jesus Christ is initial salvation.

This initial gift gives you the placard with an official entry number so that you can now compete in the race to win the crown of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9:24-26 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

2 Timothy 4:6-8 For I am already on the point of being sacrificed; the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

Hebrews 12:1-3 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

I will continue running the race, striving to win the prize: eternal life.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Uh, Jesus and His followers taught Conditional Salvation. I mentioned a few verses for you to look at.

Jesus and his followers never said a believer who generally lived a holy life, looked upon a woman in lust and suddenly died before they confessed their sin, they wouldn't be saved. You said in another reply "Okay, I may be going overboard here" and in this case I'd say you are.

 

[Ceallaigh]

This is just an ad hominem, and this is not an argument based on Scripture for your belief system.

I don't get that response regarding those who feel absolutely no conviction or remorse over sin. Perhaps you thought I was directing that statement at you, when instead I was speaking of those you were talking about.

There is no verse or passage that says to be dependent upon the finished work of the cross.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:21-25

Even when you say that a believer may feel they are deserving of hell, they don't think they are going to hell if they abide in sin as long as they believe in Jesus as their Savior. Again, Jesus warns that if you even look at a woman in lust, you are in danger of being cast bodily into hellfire. This does not align with the thinking of most Modern-day Christian groups. This is why narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.

I wasn't talking about those who abide in sin. I was talking about faithful Christians like Paul, who are painfully aware that they fall short of the pure holiness of God.