why bad things happen

[MariaRegina]

Which post did Andrew say that evil was a result of bad deed? I have looked for it and can't find it.

My dearest joy, Lee: Christ is Risen!

Below is the quote from Andrew which seems to imply that our sins (missing God somewhere) cause evil to happen. Sin <amartia, Greek for missing the mark.

So, if some evil happens to me, like I get into a bad car crash, then all I will say is that I missed God somewhere, learn from it and move on.

Yes, many times this is true because every action causes an equal and opposite reaction, which we learned from the law of physics. But sometimes evil happens for no apparent reason. Perhaps a random act of terrorism, where the innocent victims happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or were they? Remember the massacre at Columbine High School? Remember the young girl who said "yes" and died a martyr's death? God glorified her with martyrdom. She was ready and willing to die for Christ. She achieved the crown of martyrdom and witnessed to many youths across America. Through her shed blood many youths have come to accept Christ, just as in the early Christian times. The faith grows when martyrs shed their blood.

Any comments here?

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[LeeS]

My dearest joy, Lee: Christ is Risen!

Below is the quote from Andrew which seems to imply that our sins (missing God somewhere) cause evil to happen. Sin <amartia, Greek for missing the mark.

I don't think that statement of Andrews was intended to be taken as "I sinned, therefore I deserved it". I believe it was more like, Gosh, if I'd just stopped and waited a few minutes before I left the house, like I felt that prompting to do, then I would not have been in the middle of the intersection when that car ran the light".

Ignoring that "prompting" just once can cause realproblems. I've learned what the voice of The Spirit sounds like due to ignoring that prompting way too many times. That feeling you get, deep down in your gut, but you just shake it off and go on. I believe that to be the Holy Spirit trying to warn.

I'm not talking about un-natural fear but an urge to stop, look, and listen.

Yes, many times this is true because every action causes an equal and opposite reaction, which we learned from the law of physics. But sometimes evil happens for no apparent reason. Perhaps a random act of terrorism, where the innocent victims happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or were they? Remember the massacre at Columbine High School? Remember the young girl who said "yes" and died a martyr's death? God glorified her with martyrdom. She was ready and willing to die for Christ. She achieved the crown of martyrdom and witnessed to many youths across America. Through her shed blood many youths have come to accept Christ, just as in the early Christian times. The faith grows when martyrs shed their blood.

Any comments here?

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

God is in the business of taking the bad the devil dishes and turning it into good. God did not make the bad happen to that young girl. The devil used two young men to do it. The devil was apparirantly threatened by her devotion to God so he took her out. The people that he thought was going to be kept from hearing the gospel from her are now hearing and coming to Christ because of what he did to her.

What a turn-a-round on the devil don't ya think!

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't think that statement of Andrews was intended to be taken as "I sinned, therefore I deserved it".

Why don't we ask Andrew? ANDY WHERE ARE YOU?

I'm not talking about un-natural fear but an urge to stop, look, and listen.

My dearest joy in Christ, Lee: Christ is Risen!

This is very true. We agree.

To illustrate this point:

Once I was on the freeway in a blinding rainstorm. I mean everything was in shades of brown. It was coming down by the bucketfulls. Suddenly, the whole freeway came to a screaching halt. I prayed then I noticed a way out of the mess. Surprisingly I was able to exit the freeway at the next intersection within one minute. Then I came to the offramp intersection and had to make a quick choice. (1) Exit left and take local roads when the bank was closing in 5 minutes - then I would be late for sure; (2) Enter the freeway ahead of me once again and hope the mess was behind me; (3) Just return home.

I prayed and felt the inward prompting to trust in God and return back on the freeway going in the same direction. When I got on, I had the entire freeway to myself - the accident was behind me!

God is in the business of taking the bad the devil dishes and turning it into good. God did not make the bad happen to that young girl. The devil used two young men to do it.

We agree here also.

God never makes anyone do evil. He is the author of good. However, He does allow evil to happen as a result of our own free will. The killer of his own free will went on that murderous rampage. Don't you agree?

...The people that he thought was going to be kept from hearing the gospel from her are now hearing and coming to Christ because of what he did to her. What a turn-a-round on the devil don't ya think!

With those who trust in God, good can always come out of evil. (I am paraphrasing the Bible here.) Isn't that true?

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[LeeS]

Why don't we ask Andrew? ANDY WHERE ARE YOU?

Andrew lives in Singapore. I think it's the wee hours of the morning there.

I don't mean to be speaking for him, I've just read many of his posts and believe that what you understood him to say is not what he meant. When I read it I did not understand him to say what you did.

We agree here also.

God never makes anyone do evil. He is the author of good. However, He does allow evil to happen as a result of our own free will. The killer of his own free will went on that murderous rampage. Don't you agree?

Psalm 91:9, 10 says, "Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place, No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;"

So while those young men, who did not have a "dwelling place with the Most High", made a freewill choice to murder, the girl they murdered, did, but she and/or her parents did not have the knowledge or did not know how to apply the knowledge to call upon Gods promise and be delivered.

It was NOT her fault though. It was satan's fault. It was those boys fault.

How much greater might be our testimony's if we used our sword and defeated our enemy instead of waiting on God to make good what the enemy has made a mess of.

 

[MariaRegina]

Andrew lives in Singapore. I think it's the wee hours of the morning there.

Thanks for that information.

Psalm 91:9, 10 says, "Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place, No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling." ...

How much greater might be our testimony's if we used our sword and defeated our enemy instead of waiting on God to make good what the enemy has made a mess of.

My dearest Lee: Joy in Christ, Christ is Risen!

Isn't Psalm 91 used at funerals? In my Church we use Psalm 91 during the funeral to give comfort to those who mourn, but also to demonstrate our belief in everlasting life.

With the Saints give rest, O Christ, to the soul of thy servant, where there is neither sickness, nor sorror, nor sighing, but life everlasting. - Service Book, Orthodox Christian Church

How do you explain the birth of a special-needs child (Down's syndrome) to a godly couple?

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Andrew]

Why don't we ask Andrew? ANDY WHERE ARE YOU?

Hold your horses I'm right here (hey I live in a diff time zone ok)

Yes LeeS has answered correctly for me. What I meant was that God does warn us b4hand, sometimes thru very gentle promptings, and if we are not sensitive to his voice (perhaps just too busy rushing about) then we "miss" it. that's what charismatics mean when they say "miss God".

eg God I believe has been prompting me to not drive so fast and recklessly. Sometimes I obey sometimes I dont. So if I end up in a crash, I can't say "God where were you! How come you didnt do anything?!"

 

[Andrew]

2) Why do some wealthy non-Christians seem to have all the blessings, even though they live wicked lives?

The Bible does talk about wicked people who are rich. ie by their own efforts and prob evil ways they become rich. But such bad success leads them to the grave. I think proverbs is full of that. Also, God does send the rain and sunshine on people like Saddam Hussein. Don't forget, God is all loving and merciful too, waiting for evil men to repent. Many Christians with wonderful powerful testimonies talk about how they were so bad once -- drugs, prostitution, the high life, riches etc -- until God found them and they repented. So the next time we see a wicked man prospering, how do we know God is not doing something in his life? Maybe he'll get saved and become a good preacher? who knows.

 

[Andrew]

But sometimes evil happens for no apparent reason. Perhaps a random act of terrorism, where the innocent victims happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

When innocent lives are lost, it certainly could not have happened for no reason. The Bible is clear when it says that
1. The devil goes around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
2. The devil comes only to steal, kill and destroy -- this itself is very clear that, ultimately, the devil is behind murders, shootings, bombings etc.

Now of cse, if you get a paper cut, I dont think I wld go blaming the devil, but were talking about really evil acts like being raped, killed, blown to bits etc.

Isn't Psalm 91 used at funerals? In my Church we use Psalm 91 during the funeral to give comfort to those who mourn, but also to demonstrate our belief in everlasting life.

Psalm 91 is well-known to charismatics and esp those in the Word-Faith circles as the Psalm of Protection. It is a beautiful and powerful Psalm. But I fail to see its relevance in funerals? I mean if the person is already passed on, say from a sickness, then what is the point of saying "there no evil shall befall you, nor any plague come nigh your dwelling", or "I will not be afraid of the terror by night...nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness".

It is however, most relevant to soldiers going to war, people who are afraid of SARS (deadly "pestilence" mentioned twice, "plague" once), people who are fearful of any evil, basically, befalling them.

For eg, in my church, when SARS was at its peak in Singapore, and everyone was just terrified, the word of the Lord for our church (and any Christian who wants to believe and receive it) is that we should quote out loud Psalms 91 at least once a day -- ie believe it and confess it, confess it and believe it. As long as we did our part, God would do his part.

 

[MariaRegina]

eg God I believe has been prompting me to not drive so fast and recklessly. Sometimes I obey sometimes I dont. So if I end up in a crash, I can't say "God where were you! How come you didnt do anything?!"

My Dearest Andrew: Christ is Risen!

Sorry I didn't know you were half way around the world.

When we drive recklessly or speed, we are sinning. We are endangering our lives and those around us. We have MISSED the mark.

And yes, to ignore a prompting of the Holy Spirit, that is wrong, especially when we really think He is calling us.

Once I thought I heard God call my name at 6 AM on a Saturday morning. I ignored the voice along with the message to "Call the manager."

Then at 7 AM I heard my name being called again, "Call the manager."
So I looked at my alarm clock and as it was too early, I rolled over and went to back to sleep.

At 8 AM sharp, I heard my name very loudly. This time, "Call the manager right now." I said, "Yes Lord." So I got out of bed and called the manager. She said, "How did you know to call me because I just had a cancellation and you can have the apartment even though you are tenth on the waiting list."

If I had ignored the Lord a third time, I would have MISSED the Lord's calling for me. Moving to that apartment led me to meet new friends and through them, I eventually I met my husband.

So you see, I associate the word MISS with sin. Perhaps not deadly sin, but nevertheless it is ignoring God in my life.

Any comments?

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Psalm 91 is well-known to charismatics and esp those in the Word-Faith circles as the Psalm of Protection. It is a beautiful and powerful Psalm. But I fail to see its relevance in funerals? I mean if the person is already passed on, say from a sickness, then what is the point of saying "there no evil shall befall you, nor any plague come nigh your dwelling", or "I will not be afraid of the terror by night...nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness".

My Dearest Andrew: Christ is in our midst!

In the Old Testament, death was a shadow land, a place of the unknown. There are some jewish beliefs that have come down through the centuries and are still being taught - toll houses is one idea. In the toll house (which I do not believe, but some anglicans do) they have this belief that the devil can tempt you with each gate you pass through on your way to heaven. And it is possible for you to lose your salvation at one of these gates in the next life. (You can see why I don't subscribe to the toll house theory.) Anyway Psalm 91 teaches us not to fear the grave, because God will protect us.

Hope this helps,
Elizabeth

 

[Andrew]

So you see, I associate the word MISS with sin. Perhaps not deadly sin, but nevertheless it is ignoring God in my life.

Well we don't really call it 'sin' bcos sometimes people honestly don't know or are not sure that it was God prompting them.

In your case, its a little different becos you actually heard a voice. Sometimes, even with that, people may still wonder if its God. Anyway, point is, some genuinely do not know that it is the prompting of the Holy Spirit, (unless they have learned to recognise and heed his voice.) Only when the bad thing happens and on hindsight do they realise that it was God trying to warn them. So, I dont know if I'd call that a sin.

Of cse, if you know its God and you ignore it, then yes its a sin to disobey God.

Also, this thing about promptings is quite a new teaching in the charismatic circle. Many Christians dont know that the chief way God guides or speaks to his people today is via the "witness" of the Holy Spirit -- promptings, knowings, gut-feel, intuition, that's how we describe it. Most are looking for visions, signs, voices etc, not that there anything wrong with those things but that's not the no 1 way God speaks to us today. The norm for the majority of the average Christian is by the witness of the Holy Spirit. ie the Spirit in you bears witness with your own spirit and you get a knowing within.

So, how many Chrisitians actually know this and can you hold them accountable for not knowing?

 

[Andrew]

Anyway Psalm 91 teaches us not to fear the grave, because God will protect us.

I've memorised Psalms 91 ('thanks' to the SARS crisis in Spore) but I dont recall any part of the passage that teaches us not to fear the grave.

It does however, teach us not to fear evil in the form of pestilences, plagues, traps of the devil, arrow that flies by day (eg washington sniper/scud missiles), destruction that lays waste at noonday (eg suicide bombings) etc becos God will protect us and put angels over us etc.

ie its about staying alive and not fearing the bad things that's coming all around, not being hit when others are hit, not ending up in the grave although others are dropping like flies around you. In short, it has very practical earthly applications.

so back to your point: I dont see how all these promises are relevant to a person who's already in a coffin, or to his grieving friends and relatives.

What we protestants wld use is prob Pslams 93 -- though I walk thru the valley of the shadow of death...

That has been used many times in funerals but even that is not really relevant becos the Psalmist says that he will walk thru it (not camp there and be overcome!) becos the Lord leads him THRU.

 

[Andrew]

Lemme share with you a testimony:

My pastor met a messianic Jew on his last trip to Israel last year. This Jew shared that when he attended church when he was young, there was this logo/badge on the pulpit that read "A thousand may fall at my side and 10 thousand at my right, but it shall not come near me" taken from Psalms 91.

So this Jew grew up believing this strongly in his heart.

When he was in the service/army, he wld get persecuted by his fellow Jews for being a Christian. Of cse he wld share with them Christ but they'd make fun of him and say that his God/Jesus was not true/real.

Anyway, to cut a long testimony short, there was a short war, can't rem which Israeli war was that, but what happened was that as they were patrolling an area, they walked into an ambush. There was heavy machine gun fire and his fellow soldiers died one by one in front of him (the lead man was the first to be killed), as bullets just whizzed past him. Those who were alive took cover in nearby ditches.

He did not get hit but went to the ditches to call the surviving soldiers (his friends who had made fun of him) out to fight. That is when their eyes were opened to the truth. They saw him just standing there calling them to come up and fight, as thousands of bullets whizzed past him.

This is one guy who really believe and experienced the protection in Psalms 91. (Now you may attribute it to luck and coincidence, but not me)

Now my Pastor did not plan to meet this guy. All he asked God for b4 he left for the trip was to be shown the reality of protection in Psalms 91, and God made him meet this guy. He already believed in Psalms 91 and its offer of protection, but just needed some soild confirmation from the Lord.

 

[MariaRegina]

My dearest Andrew:

Christ is in our midst! He is and always shall be!

With God nothing is impossible.

I believe in miracles, too!

Last Monday, all my scholarships and financial aid were withdrawn by the college because I had excessive units. The Financial Aid Officer said there was no hope for me. I prayed. Two hours later the scholarships and aid were reinstated.

Another miracle. Miracles happen all the time to those who have eyes to see. Great is our God. Alleluia.

Lovingly yours in Christ,

Elizabeth

 

[BigToe]

I don't think that all bad happens just because someone didn't listen to a gut feeling or voice. I know I certainly didn't have any experience that made me the least bit uncomfy when I faced bad times. In fact, it was quite the opposite. I was really excited about seeing a friend I hadn't seen in a long time and hanging out with a few others as well. It was not until this guy was sitting down next to me already having his way with me did I feel any sort of idea that something wasn't right. I don't think God punishes you for something you did in the past either. Jesus died on the cross forgiving all our sins. God keeps no record of wrongs. He holds no grudges against us. That and the fact that I had just started going to a new church and was completely on fire for the Lord for the first time in a few months. Why would God say heh, you are coming around to me again lets do this to you. He wouldn't. What happened to me had nothing to do with me. And I feel that is the case with a lot of bad things. The one who suffers is the one who deals with the consequences of someone else's choices and mistakes. However, even if something bad did happen, I know with no doubt that God is going to turn it to something good, no great. But that doesn't mean that what happened to me is my responsibility at all.

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't think that all bad happens just because someone didn't listen to a gut feeling or voice. I know I certainly didn't have any experience that made me the least bit uncomfy when I faced bad times.

My dearest joy in Christ:

I can see what you mean. Sometimes something bad happens out of the blue. And it seems that there is no way of avoiding it, especially the victims of crime. And you were a victim of a crime.

We had a horrible neighbor -- a divorcee who hated everybody. She put a draconian and unfair restraining order on us - lying in court with her attempt to seize our property. She was never charged with perjury. Through prayer, we were able to defeat the restraining order - because the attorneys left tiny loopholes which we (not our attorney) diligently discovered in due time. We were very involved with the Charismatic Movement at that time, and all our friends were praying for us. Still, we lost about $20,000 (our retirement money) because of her and we never recovered that money. She even tried a false psychiatric hold on us. (God helped us out of that one.)

However, even if something bad did happen, I know with no doubt that God is going to turn it to something good, no great. But that doesn't mean that what happened to me is my responsibility at all.

True, this is the Christian response. We have to thank God that more evil didn't happen. [God did protect you - you weren't killed.] Then we have to forgive the criminal, pray for his salvation, and move on in our lives. A grudge or unforgiveness will ultimately destroy us. With God nothing is impossible. The bad things that happen can lead us to salvation, if we trust in God our Savior.

Keep trusting in God.


Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Jesus died on the cross forgiving all our sins.

My dearest joy in Christ,

please visit

http://www.iww.is/art/shs/pages/thumbs.html

Here you will see the glory of God.

Smile! God loves ya.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Blade]

You know (oh hope you don't mind be cuting in) I keep reading chanterhanson posts just the start of them. You have blessed me so much with the way you start your posts..

Jesus I am so in love with you..

We need to take the time to really get to know him. We read and pray but do we take the time to know him? All good things come from him. Not one bad thing in my life was every from him. I not to long ago started to get mad at him and he said WHEN have I ever fail you? Then "don't you know that I love you?"

Amen Andrew.

 

[MariaRegina]

Hello! Dearest Andrew the Blade:

Christ is in our midst! He is and always shall be!

The very reason why I use these ancient Christian greetings is to set the stage, so that I will speak only of Christ, write only about Christ, and try to be Christ to all I meet.

That's what Christians are to be - we are Temples of the Holy Spirit (according to St. Paul) and our bodies are not our own -- but belong to God.

We are to glorify God in our bodies. And yes, He does love us and does not fail us.

Did you try the url I posted of the heavenly shots on the previous post?

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Andrew]

I don't think God punishes you for something you did in the past either. Jesus died on the cross forgiving all our sins. God keeps no record of wrongs. He holds no grudges against us.

I fully agree with that. Amen. Glad you can believe this as many Christians don't.

Ro 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

2 Cor 5:
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

In fact, one of the first main witnesses of the Holy Spirit that we should be aware is that God does not count our sins against us and that he does not remind us of them! IOW, the Holy Spirit is not a nagger, nagging you about the wrongs you've done and reminding you of your past sins! The devil does that!

And yes, Christ died for our past, present and future sins, simply becos when he hung on the cross 2000 years ago, we weren't even born yet, so all our sins that he bore in His body had to be future sins!