why bad things happen

[truthsearcher]

Bad comes from Satan. Good comes from God. What does God allow??? For instance, Paul. He is the subject of a lot of debate as to why Christians must endure persecution for Jesus' name. However, after reading almost the whole book of Acts, I see where the Holy Spirit warned Paul not to go into certain cities, but he went in spite of the warning. Now who am I to question Paul, but why didn't he listen to the warnings of the Holy Spirit. Why did he choose to go outside of God's hedge of protection??? What do you all think?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I don't believe the Holy Spirit was telling Paul not to go. . .He was telling Paul what would happen as a result of Him going. Paul's love of Jesus and desire to share the gospel over-rode the idea of facing persecution and eventually death.

The scripture says that "it is appointed unto man, once to die". There is an appointment we have with death. . .and it cannot touch us, without our permission, until we have finished what God has called us to do.

At the end Paul said, "I have finished the race". He had accomplished all God had called him to do and now it was time to keep his appointment with God.

Persecution for the Gospel is very different from suffering due to illness and calamaty. Giving in to calamaty, which those who are in the secret place are promised protection from, is stepping outside of God's protection. Suffering for the sake of the gospel, is not.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

God allows the bad to make the good that much better and enjoyable. To add to what Quaffer said

 

[MyangelDems]

i think our ideas of what is bad might not always match up to what God thinks is bad. God waged war on His own people because they were blatantly disobedient and refused to heed Him....to most people war is bad. Bad doesnt always come from Satan, this is a misconception that humans use to try to put things they don't understand into perspective. But God doesn't think the way that we do (drawing a blank on what verse says this but will go look it up think it is in Isaiah but not sure) therefore his definition of "bad" is probably not the same as ours. Quaffer is right that we are all appointed a time, I don't agree with the last assessment on sickness and such but do agree with the first part. God does allow sickness in his children, and he does allow calamity. I don't think it is always a matter of leaving his protection. Not saying this isnt what happens sometimes, just saying that being in God's secret place will not keep those things from touching you. Just my two cents. (worth more like 1 cent im sure! )

 

[BigToe]

there is a book called "Where is God when it Hurts?"

Anyway it describes the disease leprosy. That is a disease where people have no feeling of pain. So they step on a nail, don't know its there because their foot doesnt hurt. So the wound goes unnoticed and uncared for. The wound then festers and gets infected. The person can't feel this infection so it spreads to their entire foot. Slowly it causes parts of the body to be rendered useless basically.

I think looking at that disease allows a more tangible idea to grasp when discussing bad things and pain and whatnot. Our sense of pain is an intricate system that God placed much care, thought and design into. Without it, we can become unaware of certain things that will render us worthless in some way or another. It is a sign to us that something is wrong and needs to be taken care of.

That being said, there are tons of things out there that cause us pain that are completely out of our own control. I will use my own experiences to help illustrate my thoughts. But first, I want to say it isn't God that makes bad things happen. He allows them to happen. He has given us free will so that we aren't mindless robots walking around. We make our own choices. Unfortunately for us, we oftentimes make bad choices. Sometimes pain comes from us not using our noggins like we ought to have done. A lot of times it is other's bad choices that cause us pain. Certainly doesn't seem fair does it? Unfortunately pain goes with free will.

Now onto my story to help show my thoughts on the subject...

In Jan. I was raped by a guy I have known for several years. He used to be a good friend. Obviously that isn't the case anymore. Anyway, he didn't use a condom, I couldn't do anything to fight back because I couldn't move. The whole time I was asking God to help me. But God allowed it to happen. Why? Only God really knows. When the guy was finished, I quickly ran into my bedroom and cried myself to sleep. Little did I know he had crept into my room and into my bed. I awoke to him trying to have his way with me again. Once more my thoughts turn to God for help. That time I was able to stop him. Why did God interceed for me that time but not the night before? I have no idea. I do know that God will not make us go through anything we cannot handle. And unfortunately for us God has a lot more faith in our strength than we do.

Why do I talk about this and say I don't know why it happened if I am trying to describe why bad things happen? HEHE Good question.

The thing is, God didn't will this guy to have his way with me. But he allowed it to happen because God knows I am a strong enough person to deal with it. He knows I could handle it and that I would survive. He gave me faith in Him. God will use this bad thing and make it something great in the future. God will use all for his Good Will. No matter how bad something is, God has the power to turn it into something great. I honestly believe God is going to use this to allow me to help others who have faced something similar. God allows things to happen to help us figure out what our passions and goals and desires are. I thought rape was always wrong, and it was always my biggest fear. Now, while it is still my biggest fear, I know that with God I can overcome anything. I also know that God will use this to help me confront this issue in society.

I don't know if that helps at all. But bad things happen because we have free will. But God can use bad things to make wonderful and beautiful things. He can also teach us wonders through our pain and suffering. It is in our time of brokenness and vulnerability that God can show us just how much we need him. It is in breaking my heart and striping away all that I was that God is showing me how to not only love myself as his child, but how to truly fall in love with Him.

 

[Andrew]

Blanton911,

Thanks for being open abt this but I find it hard to believe that God allowed it becos he felt you were strong enough to handle it plus the aftermath.

I'm more inclined to believe that God had somehow tried to warn you about this guy, but perhaps you missed these promptings?

On hindsight, did you get any uneasy feelings ie -ve gutfeel, 'warnings' from friends/family etc, when you met this guy or halfway thru your relationship?

If you don't wish to discuss this that fine.

On the otherhand, I certainly believe that God can turn and work this ugly thing out for YOUR GOOD!

I sincerely hope the Lord has healed your wounds -- physical, mental, emotional, and that you will one day be able to forgive this person.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

i think our ideas of what is bad might not always match up to what God thinks is bad. God waged war on His own people because they were blatantly disobedient and refused to heed Him....to most people war is bad. Bad doesnt always come from Satan, this is a misconception that humans use to try to put things they don't understand into perspective. But God doesn't think the way that we do (drawing a blank on what verse says this but will go look it up think it is in Isaiah but not sure) therefore his definition of "bad" is probably not the same as ours. Quaffer is right that we are all appointed a time, I don't agree with the last assessment on sickness and such but do agree with the first part. God does allow sickness in his children, and he does allow calamity. I don't think it is always a matter of leaving his protection. Not saying this isnt what happens sometimes, just saying that being in God's secret place will not keep those things from touching you. Just my two cents. (worth more like 1 cent im sure! )

I'm not the one who said it. . .it's Psalms 91. And it's my thought that if God promises it then it's the truth. It's a promise. . . and God does not break His promises.

 

[victoryword]

Blanton911

I am really sorry to read about such a terrible thing happening to you. As a father of two daughters, I could only imagine the anger that I would feel if someone took advantage of any of my girls in that way. I can sense your pain that someone who was supposed to be a friend would do such a thing. I hope that you have reported this person and that he is in a jail cell with time to think about what he did.

I have a difficult time believing that God ALLOWED (as in giving His divine permission for it to happen when He could have stopped it) this to happen. I could not begin to understand why God intervened the second time but not the first. However, I cannot see Him having allowed it to happen simply because He knew that you could handle it. This is contrary to His nature.

In the the Pentetuech (the first five books of the Bible written by Moses), rape was condemned and punishable by DEATH. This is enough to prove that God abhors such an action.

This is not the time for me to play "blame the victim" and tell you everything that you may have done wrong. However, regardless of whatever led to your situation and regardless of why God did not intervene the first time, try not to build a theology around this that is not supported by Scripture. Instead, move on to allowing God to heal you emotionally and perhaps even physically from this tragedy. Do not allow the devil to make you feel dirty either. There is no excuse for someone overpowering you and doing what he did.

But in the future claim God's promises of protection and listen for His discerning voice when you are around people of the opposite sex. It's never wise to be alone with a man anyway no matter how good friends you two may be. Move on with your life from here but in moving on, be careful not to assign motives to God that are not commensurate with His nature.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

2 tim 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jeus shall suffer persecution.

1 Cor 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the Church of God.

From what group?

Gal 4:29 But as then he that is born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

any one in the flesh ......hey that's all of us!!!

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh:and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[MyangelDems]

Blanton911

I am really sorry to read about such a terrible thing happening to you. As a father of two daughters, I could only imagine the anger that I would feel if someone took advantage of any of my girls in that way. I can sense your pain that someone who was supposed to be a friend would do such a thing. I hope that you have reported this person and that he is in a jail cell with time to think about what he did.

I have a difficult time believing that God ALLOWED (as in giving His divine permission for it to happen when He could have stopped it) this to happen. I could not begin to understand why God intervened the second time but not the first. However, I cannot see Him having allowed it to happen simply because He knew that you could handle it. This is contrary to His nature.

In the the Pentetuech (the first five books of the Bible written by Moses), rape was condemned and punishable by DEATH. This is enough to prove that God abhors such an action.

This is not the time for me to play "blame the victim" and tell you everything that you may have done wrong. However, regardless of whatever led to your situation and regardless of why God did not intervene the first time, try not to build a theology around this that is not supported by Scripture. Instead, move on to allowing God to heal you emotionally and perhaps even physically from this tragedy. Do not allow the devil to make you feel dirty either. There is no excuse for someone overpowering you and doing what he did.

But in the future claim God's promises of protection and listen for His discerning voice when you are around people of the opposite sex. It's never wise to be alone with a man anyway no matter how good friends you two may be. Move on with your life from here but in moving on, be careful not to assign motives to God that are not commensurate with His nature.

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this train of thought here either or the other one that was directed towards Blanton911. As a child I was raped....does that make me at fault for trusting a male relative??? Since rape is abhored by God, and He will not allow it then, somehow the fault would have been mine? I highly doubt that. People want so much to believe that nothing bad can come from God, but technically speaking Jesus being beaten, crucified and dying for a people that hated him...now that seems bad. Actually it is bad, the only the thing that makes it good is that God sent Jesus to die for us. Why are we so scared of "bad" things happening to us? who knows. All I know is I think instead of saying people like me and blanton do not "claim God's promises of protection" or do not "discern when you are around people" should instead be jumping up and down and thanking the good Lord that such a thing wasn't required of you to go through. But I guess to whom much is given much is required. It never ceases to amaze me how Christians tend to take such a superior stance when it comes to such things as "bad" things. Personally I do not consider my childhood as being "bad". Neither do I think that Jesus would have went around saying "well you should've listened to God you got what you deserved". I thank God that God is nothing like humans, otherwise everyone would truly be ******. Anyhow this is the last time I will post on this particular thread, I'd rather not cast my pearls. I apologize to the moderators for the tone is this posting, but I am rather offended by some of the posts and am deeply sorry that apathy and compassion seem to have been fading from generation to generation.

Have a blessed day.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Last edited by Quaffer on 11th July 2003 at 07:02 PM. Reason: my thoughts only added fuel to the fire and that was not my intent. I love my sisters and do not desire to hurt them in any way.

 

[BigToe]

I didn't mean to imply that God allowed it to happen because I could handle it. But God doesn't allow us to go through more than we can handle, that is yet another promise he gave us.

And while I understand this is not a thread to discuss rape, I really think you should make sure you know the details as to what happens before you tell me I should have heeded warning. If you would like to know, all my friends and family wanted me to date the guy and thought he was great. And I was under the impression that he was coming over with some other friends, so don't for once tell me it is my fault for being alone with him. It is that attitude that allows rape to continue in society.

However if you have questions about my situation I am completely open to speaking about them but think PM or a different thread would be a better place.

OK, jumping off my soap box. My point was that bad things don't happen apart from God, he allows them to happen, even if he doesn't wish them to happen. Look at Job. God allowed Satan to do all those things to Job because God KNOW that Job would remain faithful. And God rewarded him tenfold. The thing is that God is always the highest authority. Nothing happens without him knowing about it or giving an OK. That isn't to say that God wants us to suffer, I am not implying that at all. But we must also keep in mind that while God is love, he is also just.

 

[BigToe]

We aren't saying God sends us to face calamities, but he allows us to. He permits us to make our own decisions and sometimes those decisions can hurt ourselves or others who did nothing wrong. There was NOTHING that let me know that was about to happen, not till it was happening. And there was nothing but relying completely on God that allowed it to stop.

Please don't chalk up bad things to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is a lot more than that.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

We aren't saying God sends us to face calamities, but he allows us to. He permits us to make our own decisions and sometimes those decisions can hurt ourselves or others who did nothing wrong. There was NOTHING that let me know that was about to happen, not till it was happening. And there was nothing but relying completely on God that allowed it to stop.

Please don't chalk up bad things to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is a lot more than that.

I agree. . .it was not your fault.

 

[victoryword]

This is not the time for me to play "blame the victim" and tell you everything that you may have done wrong. However, regardless of whatever led to your situation and regardless of why God did not intervene the first time, try not to build a theology around this that is not supported by Scripture. Instead, move on to allowing God to heal you emotionally and perhaps even physically from this tragedy. Do not allow the devil to make you feel dirty either. There is no excuse for someone overpowering you and doing what he did.

I did write the above in my post to Blanton911. I am not blaming her. I am sorry if I came accross that way. Perhaps I am not that good at expressing myself. God bless. Take care.

 

[BigToe]

oh, i know you werent trying to blame me.

 

[MariaRegina]

My dearest joys in Christ:

Christ is Risen

God is not the creator of evil. Nor is He a god of evil.

As a young woman I was almost raped twice. So I know the feeling of dread, deception and disappointment. Fortunately, I was able to get out of those bad situations, I took a course in self defense, and I am now very careful. But you never know. Statistics show that most women are raped by friends, relatives or acquaintances.

I do believe that out of bad situations, good can result, if a person trust totally in God. Look at Job, he did nothing wrong. God allowed the devil to tempt and to almost destroy Job, but Job was steadfast. He didn't waver.

Somewhere in the scriptures, it says like gold in fire, God will test us. We all have our crosses to bear. It may seem that some people never have any problems, but perhaps they are keeping their sorrows hidden. We cannot judge, and say "Why me?"

I will pray that all who read this post will be given the strength to live their lives in a godly manner and be made worthy to enter Paradise. Let's just trust in God and realize that whatever life puts in our paths, God cares for us and loves us. He will always give us the necessary grace, if we but trust in Him.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[Andrew]

I believe that if we abide in the love of God and remain in the "secret place of the Most High", we will be protected from evil. I cannot believe otherwise becos that would mean Psalms 91 is a lie. So, if some evil happens to me, like I get into a bad car crash, then all I will say is that I missed God somewhere, learn from it and move on.

Yes the NT does talk about Chrisitian suffering.

Paul describes his sufferings many times. In the book of 1 Peter also, the sufferings of the Christian are discussed.

But when reading them thru, I found that they were basically sufferings of persecution for being a good Christian -- not suffering sickness, accidents, deaths, etc. -- ie people persecute you and abuse you becos you are a good Christian.

In fact, the Bible does tell the Christian to expect such sufferings!

Jesus Himself walked in divine protection all the time until his time of betrayal, trial and crucifixtion. Many a times, his enemies tried to kill him but he just "walked pass them". At his betrayal, he could have called 12 legions of angels but chose not too for our sakes.

This is another divine exchange for me -- Christ gave up his divine protection that we might have it thru him!

 

[MariaRegina]

My Dearest Andrew: Christ is Risen!

I was wondering if you could answer the following questions regarding evil. I am not being envious here - I'm just asking questiongs that people have asked me.

1) If you truly believe that evil results from past bad deeds, then why are some special needs children born to good Christian people? What did the child do wrong? Why do innocent people suffer?

2) Why do some wealthy non-Christians seem to have all the blessings, even though they live wicked lives?

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[LeeS]

My Dearest Andrew: Christ is Risen!

I was wondering if you could answer the following questions regarding evil. I am not being envious here - I'm just asking questiongs that people have asked me.

1) If you truly believe that evil results from past bad deeds, then why are some special needs children born to good Christian people? What did the child do wrong? Why do innocent people suffer?

Which post did Andrew say that evil was a result of bad deed? I have looked for it and can't find it.

2) Why do some wealthy non-Christians seem to have all the blessings, even though they live wicked lives?

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

Does'nt the Bible say that "sin is pleasure for a season"? The wicked do not have their steps ordered of the Lord. Their "lot" in life can become disastorious at any moment. While the righteous appear to have that same lot, they merely suffer disastor due to their lack of knowledge of their sword and how to wheld it.