I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.

[Jero Jones]

I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.

What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented, Pauline Christianity we have today. My issue with Paul is his disinformation, according to the ancient authors--Christian, Jewish, and Pagan. According to St. Jerome (347-420), there was a tradition among Christians in the Holy Land that Paul's parents were immigrants to Tarsus from the Judean (Galilean) city of Gischala: “they say that the parents of the apostle Paul were from Gischala, a region of Judea* and that, when the whole province was devastated by the hand of Rome and the Jews scattered throughout the world, they were moved to Tarsus a town of Cilicia; the boy Paul inherited the lot of his parents” **(St. Jerome, Commentary on Philemon, vs. 23-24). Yet, Paul claims that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, and he like his father before him are Pharisees. See Acts 23:6.

Sue for Jero.

*Jerome was first and foremost a religious author. However, geography was not his best subject, he mistook Galilee of the Gentiles/Galilee of the Nations, as being in Judea.

**Translated: by Thomas P. Scheck (2010), St Jerome’s commentaries on Galatians, Titus, and Philemon, pp. 378/9, University of Notre Dame Press, Indiana.

 

[Unqualified]

Many humanists have trouble with Paul and many cults Do to. He did not invent Christianity, it was from God. He had the mission of starting the church. He did a good work. The main stream church believes him because of his godly testimony. Without Jesus you can’t believe him, you don’t understand and are having antichrist thoughts. Jesus loves you he wants you to believe and be blest. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Clare73]

I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.

And I have a problem with one who challenges the accounts of a man caught up to the third heaven to learn the doctrine of Christ.

What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented,

You either believe Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus (Ac 9:1-19),
that he received his teaching from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 2:11-12, 2 Co 12:7),
that he was called by God and Jesus Christ to be an apostle (Gal 1:1, 1 Co 1:1, Ro 1:1)
that the apostles approved him as an apostle (Gal 2:2, 7-9),
that the apostles saw that he had been entrusted with preaching the gospel to the Gentiles (Gal 2:7),
or you don't.

That's a Holy Spirit issue.

Pauline Christianity we have today. My issue with Paul is his disinformation, according to the ancient authors--Christian, Jewish, and Pagan. According to St. Jerome (347-420), there was a tradition among Christians in the Holy Land that Paul's parents were immigrants to Tarsus from the Judean (Galilean) city of Gischala: “they say that the parents of the apostle Paul were from Gischala, a region of Judea* and that, when the whole province was devastated by the hand of Rome and the Jews scattered throughout the world, they were moved to Tarsus a town of Cilicia; the boy Paul inherited the lot of his parents” **(St. Jerome, Commentary on Philemon, vs. 23-24). Yet, Paul claims that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, and he like his father before him are Pharisees. See Acts 23:6.

And my issue with you is preferring "tradition" regarding Paul over Paul's own account.

Sue for Jero.

*Jerome was first and foremost a religious author. However, geography was not his best subject, he mistook Galilee of the Gentiles/Galilee of the Nations, as being in Judea.

**Translated: by Thomas P. Scheck (2010), St Jerome’s commentaries on Galatians, Titus, and Philemon, pp. 378/9, University of Notre Dame Press, Indiana.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

More and more people have problems with understanding Paul, a strange fact that I do not understand is that Paul never quoted Jesus. Am I correct in this? Also Paul said to follow him?

Philippians 3:17 : "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."

Why should I follow a servant of Jesus, when the words of Jesus our savior, the son of God who is one with GOD are perfectly clear compared to Paul's epistles that are difficult to understand and can be interpreted in so many ways? ( 2 Peter 3 ) Personally I prefer to follow Jesus teachings Can't go wrong If I follow Jesus's teachings, and this is what Jesus asked us to do, I will not disobey God.

John 13:16 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him."

Jesus said he is the only way. In the (KJV), John 14:6 reads;

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Jesus declares himself as the exclusive means through which individuals can access God the Father. He identifies himself as "the way," signifying the path or the route to God, "the truth," representing the embodiment of divine truth, and "the life," indicating the source of eternal life. This statement stresses the unique and central role of Jesus in facilitating the relationship between humanity and God.

Peace.

 

[CoreyD]

I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.

What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented, Pauline Christianity we have today. My issue with Paul is his disinformation, according to the ancient authors--Christian, Jewish, and Pagan. According to St. Jerome (347-420), there was a tradition among Christians in the Holy Land that Paul's parents were immigrants to Tarsus from the Judean (Galilean) city of Gischala: “they say that the parents of the apostle Paul were from Gischala, a region of Judea* and that, when the whole province was devastated by the hand of Rome and the Jews scattered throughout the world, they were moved to Tarsus a town of Cilicia; the boy Paul inherited the lot of his parents” **(St. Jerome, Commentary on Philemon, vs. 23-24). Yet, Paul claims that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, and he like his father before him are Pharisees. See Acts 23:6.

Sue for Jero.

*Jerome was first and foremost a religious author. However, geography was not his best subject, he mistook Galilee of the Gentiles/Galilee of the Nations, as being in Judea.

**Translated: by Thomas P. Scheck (2010), St Jerome’s commentaries on Galatians, Titus, and Philemon, pp. 378/9, University of Notre Dame Press, Indiana.

This is just my suggestion. Why not start a thread in one of the debate forums?
There is the Theology (Christians only) forums.

I'm thinking what the Greek scriptures would look like without the 13 letters of Paul. I'm seeing that we would have to remove Peter's letters as well.
2 Peter 3:15, 16
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation - as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

You would also have to question Luke's account of the acts of the apostles. He mentioned Paul more than any other disciple - more than 100 times.
He also said the Lord spoke to Paul in visions Acts 18:9, and that Paul laid his hands on persons and they received the holy spirit Acts 19:6, and that God was performing these powerful works through Paul Acts 19:11.
So, you definitely have to throw Luke out.

When you do that, there is a gap in the Bible as wide as the Marianna Trench is deep.
I'm sure there are other problems I haven't mentioned.
Now though, we're down to 11 books in the Greek scriptures, and we don't even know about the so-called rapture, and a whole lot of other things.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

luke was paul's companion.

Luke, the third book in the New Testament canon, was written by Luke, a physician and companion of Paul on some of his journeys. Often referred to as the “Gospel of mercy,” the book portrays Jesus as showing compassion toward the marginalized, poor, and outcast. In Luke’s Gospel, Jesus is presented as the Savior of all people, not exclusively the Jews, suggesting that the author is a Gentile. The Gospel of Luke distinguishes itself by providing many historical and chronological details. Notably, Luke also includes much information on the women who followed Jesus, mentioning them about 45 times. A large section of Luke contains material unique to that book, including 14 parables not found in the other Gospels.

source:

Who wrote the book of Luke? Who was the author of Luke? | GotQuestions.org

Who wrote the book of Luke? Who was the author of the book of Luke? Was Luke the author of the book of Luke?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Clare73]

More and more people have problems with understanding Paul, a strange fact that I do not understand is that
Paul never quoted Jesus. Am I correct in this?

See 1 Co 11:24-25, 2 Co 12:9.

Paul was giving new revelation (2 Co 12:7) which he received from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12).
Jesus' teaching was to the Jews and under the Old Covenant.
Paul's teaching is to the world and under the New Covenant.

Also Paul said to follow him?

Because he followed Christ, and Paul was demonstrating to them what that meant.
Likewise, he received his teaching from Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12, 2 Co 12:7).

In addition, Christ gave him new revelation for the church; e.g.,
salvation and justification/righteousness by faith alone, apart from faith's works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28),
the church as the body of Christ, the spouse of Christ (Eph 5:30-33), etc.,
which is to be received, believed and obeyed.

So you do not participate in the body/spouse of Christ?

 

[ralliann]

See 1 Co 11:24-25, 2 Co 12:9.

Paul was giving new revelation (2 Co 12:7) which he received from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12).
Jesus' teaching was to the Jews and under the Old Covenant.

Exactly!

Paul's teaching is to the world and under the New Covenant.

Which is based upon the promises made to Abraham witnessed in the law. Concerning the nations..

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

See 1 Co 11:24-25, 2 Co 12:9.

Paul was giving new revelation (2 Co 12:7) which he received from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12).
Jesus' teaching was to the Jews and under the Old Covenant.
Paul's teaching is to the world and under the New Covenant.

Because he followed Christ, and Paul was demonstrating to them what that meant.
Likewise, he received his teaching from Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12, 2 Co 12:7).

In addition, Christ gave him new revelation for the church; e.g.,
salvation and justification/righteousness by faith alone, apart from faith's works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28),
the church as the body of Christ, the spouse of Christ (Eph 5:30-33), etc.,
which is to be received, believed and obeyed.

So you do not participate in the body/spouse of Christ?

yes, like all believers of Christ. We may have different beliefs but share the same core message.

A question for you, where is the church so I may Join, I belong to no church as I cannot find one nearby who follow what is actually written in the bible about what Jesus was teaching.

Now seriously, any witnesses to Paul's visitations by Jesus other than Paul's own words? can you answer this one? I am just being very careful not wanting to be deceived and follow the true words of Jesus the son of GOD.

Blessings

 

[Clare73]

yes, like all believers of Christ. We may have different beliefs but share the same core message.

A lot of that core message is through one apostle, Paul.

A question for you, where is the church

The church is wherever there are those who believe in Christ.

so I may Join, I belong to no church as I cannot find one nearby who follow what is actually written in the bible about what Jesus was teaching.

Now seriously, any witnesses to Paul's visitations by Jesus other than Paul's own words?

Yes, the witness of the Holy Spirit to one's own spirit of the truth of Paul's words.

can you answer this one? I am just being very careful not wanting to be deceived and follow the true words of Jesus the son of GOD.

Only the Holy Spirit can convince you.

 

[CoreyD]

See 1 Co 11:24-25, 2 Co 12:9.

Paul was giving new revelation (2 Co 12:7) which he received from Jesus Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12).
Jesus' teaching was to the Jews and under the Old Covenant.
Paul's teaching is to the world and under the New Covenant.

Because he followed Christ, and Paul was demonstrating to them what that meant.
Likewise, he received his teaching from Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12, 2 Co 12:7).

Good point.

In addition, Christ gave him new revelation for the church; e.g.,
salvation and justification/righteousness by faith alone, apart from faith's works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28),

I read the law's works.
You didn't read faith's works in those scriptures.
Perhaps read them again Clare.

the church as the body of Christ, the spouse of Christ (Eph 5:30-33), etc.,
which is to be received, believed and obeyed.

True.

So you do not participate in the body/spouse of Christ?

Good question.

 

[CoreyD]

yes, like all believers of Christ. We may have different beliefs but share the same core message.

I have to say this JFF. This is not a teaching of Christ and his apostles.
Paul said at 1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be united in mind and conviction.

A question for you, where is the church so I may Join, I belong to no church as I cannot find one nearby who follow what is actually written in the bible about what Jesus was teaching.

This is a good question.
Unfortunately, people have altered the meaning of the word Church.
The Church was never a building. See Colossians 4:15; Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19

The body of Christ is the Church, and this is any body of Christians annointed by holy spirit. Romans 12:5; Ephesians 3:5-7; Ephesians 4:4; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18; Colossians 2:19

We can accept that when people gather together in worship, they form a congregation (church), but not to confuse that with the body of Christ, which is the Congregation (Church).

It's important to find out where the body of Christ gathers. To do so, we need to examine the teachings of the Bible, and pray for guidance. God will supply that guidance, as he did for the Ethiopian Eunuch. Acts 8:26-38

Now seriously, any witnesses to Paul's visitations by Jesus other than Paul's own words? can you answer this one? I am just being very careful not wanting to be deceived and follow the true words of Jesus the son of GOD.

Luke. The book of Acts.

Blessings

May you have peace.

 

[rturner76]

And I have a problem with one who challenges the accounts of a man caught up to the third heaven to learn the doctrine of Christ.

Was that a physical trip or a dream? Any witnesses? Just curious.

that he received his teaching from Jesus Christ personally

I thought Christ had ascended when Saul/Paul was busy executing Christians for Rome. When did he dit at the foot of the savior like all the others?

And my issue with you is preferring "tradition" regarding Paul over Paul's own account.

Isn't Paul's own account Paul's tradition? I don't have a problem with Paul, he is very insightful. I think where people get confused is when they misinterpret Paul's word to mean that when we become Christian, we don't have to actually be Christian, we can just say we are and get a free ticket to heaven without changing our ways. I'm not accusing you of that but I have seen what I would call "Paulians" who take the word of Paul over the word of the living Christ.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

A lot of that core message is through one apostle, Paul.

The church is wherever there are those who believe in Christ.

Yes, the witness of the Holy Spirit to one's own spirit of the truth of Paul's words.

Only the Holy Spirit can convince you.

Claire in honesty, Jesus said and DID it all! if you removed Paul's epistle from the bible the gospel is still there, the salvation offered by Jesus is still there do you understand this? all of the old testament points to Jesus None of it points to Paul. Why people put Paul words first is beyond me.
You may say that paul was sent to the gentiles;

1. Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

but I say with proof that Peter was sent to the gentiles God Himself appointed him, cant you see? if you remove paul nothing changes except perhaps we would have clarity and peace !

Still no answer from you on Paul's witnesses about his secret exchanges with Jesus? because there are no witnesses it is his word only.

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON
These posts were moved from a thread in the Introduce Yourself forum into this new thread that is in General Theology.
ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[Clare73]

Was that a physical trip or a dream? Any witnesses? Just curious.

I thought Christ had ascended when Saul/Paul was busy executing Christians for Rome. When did he dit at the foot of the savior like all the others?

Isn't Paul's own account Paul's tradition? I don't have a problem with Paul, he is very insightful. I think where people get confused is when they misinterpret Paul's word to mean that when we become Christian, we don't have to actually be Christian, we can just say we are and get a free ticket to heaven without changing our ways. I'm not accusing you of that but I have seen what I would call "Paulians" who take the word of Paul over the word of the living Christ.

Nowhere is Paul in disagreement with Christ, having received his teaching from Christ personally (Gal 1:11-12).

 

[RDKirk]

I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.

What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented, Pauline Christianity we have today.

Christians of Paul's time and immediately afterward, the apostles, those who knew Paul and those who knew the apostles accepted his witness and instructions. What gives your opinion more validity than theirs? You must first discredit their witness.

 

[Clare73]

Claire in honesty, Jesus said and DID it all! if you removed Paul's epistle from the bible the gospel is still there, the salvation offered by Jesus is still there do you understand this? all of the old testament points to Jesus None of it points to Paul. Why people put Paul words first is beyond me.
You may say that paul was sent to the gentiles;

1. Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

but I say with proof that Peter was sent to the gentiles God Himself appointed him, cant you see? if you remove paul nothing changes except perhaps we would have clarity and peace !

Still no answer from you on Paul's witnesses about his secret exchanges with Jesus?
because there are no witnesses it is his word only.

And?

The body/spouse of Christ is his word only (Eph 5:30-33).
God's purpose to sum up all things in Christ is his word only (Eph 1:9).
God's purpose to include both Jews and Gentles in the NT church is his word only (Eph 3:3-6).
The change that will take place at the resurrection is his word only (1 Co 15:51).
The plan by which a remnant of both Jew and Gentile will be included in his kingdom is his word only (Ro 11:25).

Only the sovereign Holy Spirit (Jn 3:6-8) can convince you.

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

It is probably a good time to remind everyone of the following SITE WIDE rule:

Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.

ADMIN HAT OFF

 

[Clare73]

Was that a physical trip or a dream? Any witnesses? Just curious.

We find the witness from heaven in Ac 9.

That is sufficient for God' people regarding Paul.

I thought Christ had ascended when Saul/Paul was busy executing Christians for Rome. When did he sit at the foot of the savior like all the others?

Who made the rule that he had to "sit at the foot of the savior"?

See Gal 1:11-12, 2 Co 12:7.

Isn't Paul's own account Paul's tradition? I don't have a problem with Paul, he is very insightful.

It is not Paul's "insight" which gives him authority from God, it is his apostleship (1& 2 Co 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, Col 1:1, 1& 2 Tim 1:1,
Tit 1:1) which gives him authority from God.