Why are you a Baptist?

[Hammster]

get one thing straight i dont owe you a explanation see i never said what you are wanting said... what your doing is baiting .

I know you don’t owe me anything.

 

[actionsub]

Is it because you grew up Baptist, like a Baptist church, or agree with their belief statements?

In my case, it's because you can take a guy out of the Baptists (I left the SBC after my divorce), but
you can't take the Baptist out of the guy! I spent 10 years in the United Methodists, but there were
some circles I couldn't square, such as infant baptism/confirmation.

 

[Indybap]

In my case, it's because you can take a guy out of the Baptists (I left the SBC after my divorce), but
you can't take the Baptist out of the guy! I spent 10 years in the United Methodists, but there were
some circles I couldn't square, such as infant baptism/confirmation.

I relate fully. I am also divorced and just had a period between churches of looking for one.

Funny thing I got though is the small differences in independent Baptist's.

Closed Vs close communion. Voting in a member Vs having no membership process.

In the end I didn't divide over this and kept to the church I was with. I still want the pastor at the new place to vote me in with the congregation. He said it wouldnt be a problem.. but I dunno if he is gonna do it.

Anyway .. he is currently overseas so I just gotta wait.

 

[atpollard]

Is it because you grew up Baptist, like a Baptist church, or agree with their belief statements?

I took an online test and it said that my personal beliefs were a 100% match for something called a "Reformed Baptist". Since I arrived at those beliefs by starting out as an atheist, reading the bible and attending:

• RCC
• Church of God (Anderson Indiana)
• Evangelical Free Church
• Independent Pentecostal Church

It came as a bit of a surprise ... so I visited a Southern Baptist Church and studied the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. Turns out I arrived at "Particular Baptist" through the back door ... from reading Scripture in every other denomination.

 

[Indybap]

I get strongly Baptist in the survey but they put me in the Calvinist camp, when I'm rejecting most things calvinist aside from eternal security.

Most Christians say there is only Armenism and Calvinism as if those are the only beliefs you can take. I'm not either..since Armenism usually has salvation being able to be lossed and calvinism has salvation before belief.

The bible itself has believing and then salvation given at that moment..and salvation being unable to be lossed.

 

[actionsub]

I took an online test and it said that my personal beliefs were a 100% match for something called a "Reformed Baptist". Since I arrived at those beliefs by starting out as an atheist, reading the bible and attending:

• RCC
• Church of God (Anderson Indiana)
• Evangelical Free Church
• Independent Pentecostal Church

It came as a bit of a surprise ... so I visited a Southern Baptist Church and studied the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. Turns out I arrived at "Particular Baptist" through the back door ... from reading Scripture in every other denomination.

That particular online test keeps telling me I'm a QUAKER!

 

[atpollard]

That particular online test keeps telling me I'm a QUAKER!

Well it MUST be true if it says so on the internet.

 

[Markie Boy]

I am considering going back to my old baptist church - even though I disagree with the Once Saved Always Saved, and Dispensationalism.

They are conservative, try to stay Biblical, they evangelize because they care, and reach out to help people. I may not agree with a few of their church covenant rules, but I have been through the meat grinder so much those are small things.

I want to be with conservative, truth seeking people, that live the gospel, not just talk about it.

 

[Dave G.]

I am considering going back to my old baptist church - even though I disagree with the Once Saved Always Saved, and Dispensationalism.

They are conservative, try to stay Biblical, they evangelize because they care, and reach out to help people. I may not agree with a few of their church covenant rules, but I have been through the meat grinder so much those are small things.

I want to be with conservative, truth seeking people, that live the gospel, not just talk about it.

But Paul speaks specifically about at least two dispensations and even says the word dispensation. The mystery kept hidden to the sons of men being one (a time where people didn't have direct revelation in general and not of Christ in particular and heard through prophets) . The other the mystery revealed ( Christ). This leads us into the church age, which by the way has a time limit possibly fast approaching. Then we have the time of perfection where there was only God, to creation up until mans fall. Rather than let the term dispensation bother us, perhaps look at things as periods of time within time itself.

As to losing salvation, this always leads down a pathway of were they ever truly saved to begin with, if they have seemingly fallen away.

 

[B Griffin]

Can you name a specific Baptist doctrine that you wouldn’t preach?

In my experience, some Southern Baptists are legalistic in their approach to Christian living and many do not have a healthy view of the Holy Spirit's central role in the same. Despite those major issues, I still believe Southern Baptist doctrine/practice is closer to right than any others I know of.

 

[Dave G.]

In my experience, some Southern Baptists are legalistic in their approach to Christian living and many do not have a healthy view of the Holy Spirit's central role in the same. Despite those major issues, I still believe Southern Baptist doctrine/practice is closer to right than any others I know of.

True, and really if you think about it, we preach bible. I've preached from a Baptist pulpit and heard plenty of sermons from Baptist pulpits and we try to preach truthful meaning from scripture, not Baptist doctrine. And truth is truly heard right from scripture. I mean you're not going to get up there and start hammering on doctrine. But if you get up and approach your topic with chapter and verse, a couple of cross references, include a little narrative on each and from some commentaries . Flesh it out, bring it together into the gospel and give an invitation, you can easily fill in a 35 or 40 minute sermon, if not run out of time. And never mention doctrinal policy nor really should you. That's something for a meeting with the pastor or elders, deacons etc.

I don't care what church, be it denomination, non denomination or whatever else, along the way something will be said we don't all agree on.

 

[9Rock9]

I am considering going back to my old baptist church - even though I disagree with the Once Saved Always Saved, and Dispensationalism.

They are conservative, try to stay Biblical, they evangelize because they care, and reach out to help people. I may not agree with a few of their church covenant rules, but I have been through the meat grinder so much those are small things.

I want to be with conservative, truth seeking people, that live the gospel, not just talk about it.

If you don't agree with OSAS and dispensationalism, then there are perhaps some other conservative, biblically-oriented churches you could look into.

There's the Free Will Baptists, who believe that a true, born again Christian can apostasize. I'm not super familiar with them, but I wager most of them are premillennial. That said, since they are Baptists and decentralized, there should still be a fair number of amillennials among them.

Your other option is maybe Church of Christ, since they are conservative, focus on the Bible, but believe in neither OSAS nor dispensationalism.

 

[Markie Boy]

But Paul speaks specifically about at least two dispensations and even says the word dispensation. The mystery kept hidden to the sons of men being one (a time where people didn't have direct revelation in general and not of Christ in particular and heard through prophets) . The other the mystery revealed ( Christ). This leads us into the church age, which by the way has a time limit possibly fast approaching. Then we have the time of perfection where there was only God, to creation up until mans fall. Rather than let the term dispensation bother us, perhaps look at things as periods of time within time itself.

As to losing salvation, this always leads down a pathway of were they ever truly saved to begin with, if they have seemingly fallen away.

I agree - we at bare minimum have to say there are at least two dispensations - or we would not have an Old Testament and New Testament. I think what I am less in favor of is the pre-Trib rapture.

And as we go, I agree the idea of "were they saved to start" is a reasonable answer to the OSAS thing.

Like I said - been thru the meat grinder - pretty relaxed and it's helping me see things from other angles.

 

[Dave G.]

I'll be glad to talk about the Rapture but not tonight. Meanwhile, one thing great about Rapture, no Rapture, pre, post trib or whatever else, even with all the hype over it or against is. Salvation doesn't hang on it.

 

[Markie Boy]

I'll be glad to talk about the Rapture but not tonight. Meanwhile, one thing great about Rapture, no Rapture, pre, post trib or whatever else, even with all the hype over it or against is. Salvation doesn't hang on it.

I'm open to listen. I am not really set in either camp. Most importantly I REALLY AGREE with you - it's not a salvation issue, nor one that should divide us.

 

[Dave G.]

I'm open to listen. I am not really set in either camp. Most importantly I REALLY AGREE with you - it's not a salvation issue, nor one that should divide us.

Yes however, one being in the rapture hangs on your salvation. If you were never saved you won't go up to meet the Lord in the air when that day comes. If you are saved you will go up.

General outline of pre trib: Jesus comes down to the clouds with the souls of those who have passed on, the dead in Christ rise first ( in the grave bodies) to be joined with Him in resurrection bodies and united with their souls and spirits again which had been in heaven with the Lord. Then we who remain alive will be caught up ( Raptuos in Latin, Harpazo in Greek or raptured in English) to meet the Lord in the air. See Christ never touches down on earth in this event. In the rapture His church believers go up to meet Him in the air, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-19. The only thing the rest of earth sees is missing Christians. At His second coming to earth after the Great Tribulation described in Revelation everyone sees His coming, we return with Him to earth and we are gathered from heaven not earth, so we are already there when He returns to the earth at the end of the 7 year Great Tribulation..

Why pre trib ? We are not appointed to God's wrath. No believer in scripture was, Noah was saved out of the flood which was wrath, Lot out of Sodom before destruction by the wrath of God came. Now we have the greatest most powerful event in earths history coming, He will take His people out of harms was, not through it. In 1 Thessalonians 1:10 it says He delivers us from the wrath to come. During the Great Tribulation there are judgments before and after the mid point. The AntiChrist sets up camp as God in the temple at the 3-1/2 year point. Now in the bowl judgments this is not Just the kinds of things that till this point changes the landscape of earth and kills a few million people but now turns to God's full wrath being poured out full strength. Scripture says such as the world has never seen nor will ever see again. And if it were not stopped by God Himself there would not only be nothing left but nobody left as well. And it's only stopped for the remnant of believers who came to Christ led by the 144,000 Jewish believers assigned to bring people to Christ in that time. I say remnant because most who were saved in the Tribulation were beheaded and during the events of Revelation show up under the altar in heaven.

Once Revelation 4 ends all the way out to Revelation 16 the church is never mentioned. Why? Because we aren't in those events. We aren't here on earth. Those bowl judgments aren't intended for us, but poured out on an unbelieving and disobedient world.

 

[atpollard]

Yes however, one being in the rapture hangs on your salvation. If you were never saved you won't go up to meet the Lord in the air when that day comes. If you are saved you will go up.

Technically, EVERYONE gets to meet Him eventually ... at the Judgement Throne if nothing else.

Considering God's "settled opposition" to sin, it is probably just as well that the unsaved (unforgiven) are not raptured into the air and escorted into the presence of a Holy God ... it would not go well for anyone NOT "In Christ".

 

[Dave G.]

Technically, EVERYONE gets to meet Him eventually ... at the Judgement Throne if nothing else.

Considering God's "settled opposition" to sin, it is probably just as well that the unsaved (unforgiven) are not raptured into the air and escorted into the presence of a Holy God ... it would not go well for anyone NOT "In Christ".

Well there is an order to things to come, the unbelievers time is not yet when the rapture occurs. That time is The Great White Throne Judgement in Revelation 20:11-15. Assuming they never do turn to Christ of course. There is always that hope that they will.

 

[atpollard]

Well there is an order to things to come, the unbelievers time is not yet when the rapture occurs. That time is The Great White Throne Judgement in Revelation 20:11-15. Assuming they never do turn to Christ of course. There is always that hope that they will.

I admired how God's patience cut both ways:

• God waits as long as possible to provide EVERY OPPORTUNITY for "all without exception" to do the right thing (and God will forgive everything right up to that last possible moment).
• Every additional moment that "judgement" is delayed, stores up that much more wrath earned by those that steadfastly reject "so great a salvation" for the "day of wrath".

Not either/or but BOTH! Greater JUDGEMENT and greater MERCY from the exact same act.

 

[Dave G.]

I admired how God's patience cut both ways:

• God waits as long as possible to provide EVERY OPPORTUNITY for "all without exception" to do the right thing (and God will forgive everything right up to that last possible moment).
• Every additional moment that "judgement" is delayed, stores up that much more wrath earned by those that steadfastly reject "so great a salvation" for the "day of wrath".

Not either/or but BOTH! Greater JUDGEMENT and greater MERCY from the exact same act.

Amen, well said ! And we do thank God for His mercy and that it's new every day.