We/I don't think so. From Romans 10:10 "Faith in the heart leads to justification and confession from the lips to salvation." I read this to be just opposite to the sinners prayer.
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Was their only ONE church after Jesus Died...Check it out!!
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We/I don't think so. From Romans 10:10 "Faith in the heart leads to justification and confession from the lips to salvation." I read this to be just opposite to the sinners prayer.
Well, you did say this:
My only point was that you can't study without reading what you are going to study first. And things of the Lord can't be in your heart without first being invited in, first by reading, then studying, and finally by faith, accepting as truth what they say.
Just out of curiosity, why would you say the Catholic Church does not want you to study?
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Good question.
The Catholic Church, in my opinion based on tradition and whatever else I understand, does not agree with the sinner's prayer salvation method as a way to get saved.
The Catholic Church actually encourages bible study if and only if you have a God given desire to study. They just don't encourage bible study to seek salvation. In short, they don't encourage it but will never tell you not to study if you are inclined to do so.
Actually they do have readings in every mass and these are sufficient until you find a desire for more.
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I don't have any idea what translation you use but my Bible says in Romans 10:10: "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
It is simple. You believe in your heart. (Accept Christ as your saviour, by faith) You confess with your mouth (tell people). And you are saved. Why is this such a hard concept to understand? This verse does not say anything about works, or baptism or anything else. Just believe and confess.
Remember, Jesus said in Matthew 18:3 "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
In other words, you know what happens when you tell a small child something? They believe you. That is what Jesus wants us to do. Throw out all of our worldly "logic" and just simply do what he says and believe.
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I have nothing really against the Catholic Church. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of their teachings, but that is another thing all together. But personally, if I went to a church that basically said this to me, being the naturally questionable type, I would think that they were actually trying to keep me from seeing something.
Just remember one thing. Tradition does not save you. Never has and never will.
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VOW
The BLACK PLAGUE was the INQUISITIONS.
AND A BLACK MARK IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
RICHARD
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Wolseley
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The Bible doesn't save you either. Never has and never will. Faith in Christ is what saves you; the Bible is just like Tradition in that respect: a tool which helps you to strengthen your faith and point you to Christ.
It was???
I'll be jiggered.....I never knew that all those rats from Asia, the fleas they carried, and those nasty little Yersinia pestis bugs that lived in the fleas were even Catholic, let alone Inquisitors!
Do you happen to know how many of them were Dominicans?
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Remember that chili has a lot of beliefs that aren't quite what the Catholic Church teaches. It's true that the Catholic church would not encourage you to go off by yourself and read the Bible and try to come up with a path to salvation on your own. However, they definitely encourage reading the Bible.
-Chris
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OK...as usual the topic has gone WAY off the rocker.
Just because something from the RCC is stated as a heretic, does that mean it is? We as protesants were once found as being heretics in history. These secs of christianity, the Waldereans, were ONLY concidered heritial by the RCC. Thus this proves the statements "only Catholics before luther, everyone was catholic before luther", as false.
Now what does this really mean? Well to me it means that the RCC was NOT the only christian denomination back then. Does it prove that the RCC was NOT the true church, I personally don't see enought evidence for that just yet in this thread of mine. Although I don't agree that the RCC is the true church anyway. I belive that the unity of the believers in Christ make up the true church.
Thanks for your responses.
GEL
Just because something from the RCC is stated as a heretic, does that mean it is? We as protesants were once found as being heretics in history. These secs of christianity, the Waldereans, were ONLY concidered heritial by the RCC. Thus this proves the statements "only Catholics before luther, everyone was catholic before luther", as false.
Now what does this really mean? Well to me it means that the RCC was NOT the only christian denomination back then. Does it prove that the RCC was NOT the true church, I personally don't see enought evidence for that just yet in this thread of mine. Although I don't agree that the RCC is the true church anyway. I belive that the unity of the believers in Christ make up the true church.
Thanks for your responses.
GEL
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Trento
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These were some of the Main Christian sects which challanged the Catholic Church durning the past 2000 years Judeo-Christians, Judeo-Gnostics, Nicolaites, Docetae, Cerinthians, Ebionites, Nazarenes,Ophites, Marcionites, Encratites, Montanists, Manichaeans, Eutychianism, Nestorianism. Had the Church sucummed to any one of these we would recognise what we believe today as heretic. I left out Protestents Their bliefs would not be the same as Luther broke off from the Catholic Church.
SECT: A body of persons agreed upon religious doctrines, usually different from those of an established or orthodox church from which they have separated and usually having distinctive common worship; nonconformist or other Church as described by opponents; party or faction in a religious body; religious denomination; followers of a particular philosopher or philosophy or school of thought in politics, etc.. From the Latin, sequi secut, meaning "to follow".
Their bliefs would not be the same as Luther broke off from the Catholic Church.SECT: A body of persons agreed upon religious doctrines, usually different from those of an established or orthodox church from which they have separated and usually having distinctive common worship; nonconformist or other Church as described by opponents; party or faction in a religious body; religious denomination; followers of a particular philosopher or philosophy or school of thought in politics, etc.. From the Latin, sequi secut, meaning "to follow".
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Originally posted by Trento
These were some of the Main Christian sects which challanged the Catholic Church durning the past 2000 years Judeo-Christians, Judeo-Gnostics, Nicolaites, Docetae, Cerinthians, Ebionites, Nazarenes,Ophites, Marcionites, Encratites, Montanists, Manichaeans, Eutychianism, Nestorianism. Had the Church sucummed to any one of these we would recognise what we believe today as heretic. I left out Protestents
SECT: A body of persons agreed upon religious doctrines, usually different from those of an established or orthodox church from which they have separated and usually having distinctive common worship; nonconformist or other Church as described by opponents; party or faction in a religious body; religious denomination; followers of a particular philosopher or philosophy or school of thought in politics, etc.. From the Latin, sequi secut, meaning "to follow".
Trento,
Once again, when you quote from a source, please reference it;
Is this another one from the Catholic Encyclipedia??
I just want to know, so I know what to do with this information.
Thank you,
Richard
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ANYTHING against the RCC at that time was concidered hereitic. You could be the best most holy person, saved by the blood of Christ, and on your way to heaven back then, BUT if you didn't believe in the RCC you were a heritic!
GEL
GEL
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Trento
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To the Lion.
I had most of these Christian Sects in my file which was taken from a site of the New covenent church which was promoting their so called Orthodoxy.The rest are from 10th grade Roman Empire history. Yes some of these sects were mentioned in public high school history books back in 1953.
I had most of these Christian Sects in my file which was taken from a site of the New covenent church which was promoting their so called Orthodoxy.The rest are from 10th grade Roman Empire history. Yes some of these sects were mentioned in public high school history books back in 1953.
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Trento
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To Gel the Catholic Church Protected the deposit of faith left by the Apostles. These are but a few of what these Christian Sects taught.
Marcionites---The main points of Marcion's teaching were the rejection of the Old Testament and a distinction between the Supreme God of goodness and an inferior God of justice, who was the Creator and God of the Jews. He regarded Christ as the messenger of the Supreme God. In his opinion the 12 apostles misunderstood the teaching of Christ, and, holding him to be the Messiah of the Jewish God, falsified his words from that standpoint. Passages that Marcion could regard only as Judaizing interpolations, that had been smuggled into the text by biased editors, had to be removed so the authentic text of Gospel and Apostle could once again be available. After these changes, the Gospel according to Luke became the Evangelicon, and the 10 Pauline letters, the Apostolikon.
Manichaen---------Mani's doctrines were strictly Gnostic and puritanical. They included the strict abomination of all matter, especially the flesh. The Devil created the material world and also made sex to entrap the ethereal souls in the prison of the flesh. Similar views were taught by the Essenes. The Manichaens abstained from sex, from all animal food, and eggs, believing all flesh was evil if begotten by copulation.
According to Mani, the devil god which created the world was the Jewish Jehovah. Mani said, "It is the Prince of Darkness who spoke with Moses, the Jews and their priests. Thus the Christians, the Jews, and the Pagans are involved in the same error when they worship this God. For he leads them astray in the lusts he taught them."
In legend, like Christ, Mani was tempted by the demon-god on the mountain top. In return for His worship Christ was offered "all the kingdoms of the earth." Christ refused and so did Mani.
Mani said he was the reincarnated Christ, then he took on the powers of the Holy Spirit as he chose twelve partners or disciples to come out of Persia and spread his teachings. It might seemed hard to believe he had followers, but he did. It is said that Augustine was a Manichaen for more than a decade before becoming a Christian.
The orthodox Church fiercely battled Manichaenism during the early centuries thinking that it had rooted the teaching out but it kept cropping up in the Middles Ages in sects such as the Carthari, Paulicians, Albigensians, Bogomils, and many others.
He was formally excommunicated From this time forward Marcion went his own way, energetically propagating a strange kind of Christianity that quickly took root throughout large sections of the Roman Empire and by the end of the 2nd century had become a serious threat to the mainstream Christian Church.
Docetism------------
The doctrine or belief that Christ's body was not human but either a phantasm or of real but celestial substance and that therefore his sufferings were only apparent. This is an important tenet of Gnosticism.
Gel these are but three Christian sects and their beliefs and i don't think you would want to be a member of any one of these. Our gratitude must go out to the Catholic Church for holding on to Apostolic teachings.
Marcionites---The main points of Marcion's teaching were the rejection of the Old Testament and a distinction between the Supreme God of goodness and an inferior God of justice, who was the Creator and God of the Jews. He regarded Christ as the messenger of the Supreme God. In his opinion the 12 apostles misunderstood the teaching of Christ, and, holding him to be the Messiah of the Jewish God, falsified his words from that standpoint. Passages that Marcion could regard only as Judaizing interpolations, that had been smuggled into the text by biased editors, had to be removed so the authentic text of Gospel and Apostle could once again be available. After these changes, the Gospel according to Luke became the Evangelicon, and the 10 Pauline letters, the Apostolikon.
Manichaen---------Mani's doctrines were strictly Gnostic and puritanical. They included the strict abomination of all matter, especially the flesh. The Devil created the material world and also made sex to entrap the ethereal souls in the prison of the flesh. Similar views were taught by the Essenes. The Manichaens abstained from sex, from all animal food, and eggs, believing all flesh was evil if begotten by copulation.
According to Mani, the devil god which created the world was the Jewish Jehovah. Mani said, "It is the Prince of Darkness who spoke with Moses, the Jews and their priests. Thus the Christians, the Jews, and the Pagans are involved in the same error when they worship this God. For he leads them astray in the lusts he taught them."
In legend, like Christ, Mani was tempted by the demon-god on the mountain top. In return for His worship Christ was offered "all the kingdoms of the earth." Christ refused and so did Mani.
Mani said he was the reincarnated Christ, then he took on the powers of the Holy Spirit as he chose twelve partners or disciples to come out of Persia and spread his teachings. It might seemed hard to believe he had followers, but he did. It is said that Augustine was a Manichaen for more than a decade before becoming a Christian.
The orthodox Church fiercely battled Manichaenism during the early centuries thinking that it had rooted the teaching out but it kept cropping up in the Middles Ages in sects such as the Carthari, Paulicians, Albigensians, Bogomils, and many others.
He was formally excommunicated From this time forward Marcion went his own way, energetically propagating a strange kind of Christianity that quickly took root throughout large sections of the Roman Empire and by the end of the 2nd century had become a serious threat to the mainstream Christian Church.
Docetism------------
The doctrine or belief that Christ's body was not human but either a phantasm or of real but celestial substance and that therefore his sufferings were only apparent. This is an important tenet of Gnosticism.
Gel these are but three Christian sects and their beliefs and i don't think you would want to be a member of any one of these. Our gratitude must go out to the Catholic Church for holding on to Apostolic teachings.
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You must be careful with this because the Catholic Church can be all things to all people.
Sure, they may encourage you to read the bible in a gentle way but will never be sola scriptura people (as you suggest).
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Trento,
I've read several times here, that there was a deposit left with Peter; What is this deposit?
Richard
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The "deposit of faith" refers to the foundation of the Catholic faith, the "highest" level of teaching which is immutable and was closed at the death of the last apostle. The Deposit of Faith is made up of the Bible and the oral teachings of Jesus and the Apostles which were not included in the Bible.
-Chris
-Chris
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kern,
What oral teachings?
and,
Where are these found?
anither one?
How does;
the "Holy Spirit" which is the deposit of the inheritance to everyone who believes in Jesus;
figure into this deposit you speak of???
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Religions there is alot of.But there is only one bible.Rev.22;14 reads and tells who will eat of the tree of life and enter in the gates of the holy city.My advice is read the scriptures digilently.John14;15 reads if you love keep my commandments.I have been to a couple of different churches.And the only one that keeps Gods commandments is the one that keeps his holy Sabbath sacet.Amazingly I have also found many other truths.God Bless You All.
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