Was their only ONE church after Jesus Died...Check it out!!

[KC Catholic]

and the fact is you weren't first

Well, I disagree, but I understand the point of your post.

History is complete, its in the past and all we have now is what is here. Arguing over who came first is NOT a valid reason for being a part of any denomination.

I agree GEL, the Catholics here vigoriously defend our claim to being the church that Christ established - that is not going to change. Of course the outcoming is not going to change either - we are separated bretheren arguing over mistakes of the past.

So, what are the fruits of this discussion? Unity? Edification? Ending abortion? Ending the destruction of our youth?

Nah...we fussing about something we can't change.

 

[WayneH]

KC....

Sorry - the IS should be IF

I wasn't stating fact as its a fact the catholic church wasn't first - I was saying - so what if the fact is true??? I do not know 100% what church was started - I only care Why - and thats to worship our Lord...

and exactly what I was trying to point out - sO What - why are we caring about this - churches started - churchs go away.. big deal - keep worshipping

 

[niwde]

thanks KC u really have the vocabulary in explaning things
first thing first
without a church there will be no such thing called worship
if u do not care whether the church is valid or false,it would be better to stay at home and pray
no need to go to church

 

[WayneH]

My vote is for ending destruction of our kids...

 

[Lion Heart]

GEL,

Good post,


HERETIC, as defined by the Catholic Eccyclopedia, states;


"Heretics are people who engage in any deliberate, persistent. and public denial of some article of revealed truth of the Catholic faith. The church calls such false beliefs heretics. It does not tolerateheresy, and punishment for it is always severe."


Thats why the Inquisitions.

Notice how the church feels that it has to protect its faithful, from heretics, contrary to the word of God, anyone who would go after another teaching is none of HIS (Gods) anyhow; and the churches was willingness to kill, mame or use the civil authorities for punishment; of any who reject their authority, all, in the name of GOD.

The Pope himself established the Inquisition in 1213, together with the death penalty for heresy.

This are refered to as the torture trials of those who did not accept the teachings of the pope.

"Curiously enough, torture was not regarded as a mode of punishment, but purely as ameans of eliciting the truth. It was first authorized by Innocent IV in his Bull "Ad Extripanda" May 15, 1252, which was confirmed by Alexander IV on November 3, 1265"
(Catholic Encyclopedia VIII "Inquisition", p. 32)

IMPRISOMENT AS RELIGIOUS PUNISHEMENT

"Imprisoment was not always accounted punishment in the proper sense; It was rather looked on as an opportunity for repentance, a preventive against backsliding or the infection of others."

(Catholic Encyclopedia, "Inquisition" p.33)

DEATH TO NON-CATHOLICS

"When those adjudged guilty of heresy have been given up to the civil power by the bishop or his representative, or the Inquisition, the Podesta or Chief Magistrate of the city shall take them at once , execute the laws made against them."

(Pope Innocent IV, Bull "Ad Extripanda", 1252, A.D.)


All contrary to the word of God;

Mt 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you .

For the sword god uses is not kill, plunder or destroy, but to; divide the TRUTH from ERROR.

Eph 6
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:






RICHARD

 

[Catchup]

My vote is for ending destruction of our kids...

You have my vote too.

LOVE

 

[cheezit]

From my perspective, it makes not one bit of difference what church you belong to, or even if you belong to one at all. And it doesn't make any difference whether the Catholic Church was first or if the first church was the little church on the corner that has 3 members. When you stand before God, and everybody will, is your name going to be in the Book of Life? That is the question you should be asking yourselves. If God said to you, "Why should I let you into Heaven?", the correct answer will NOT be "Because I am Catholic". (Or Baptist, or Methodist or Swahilli or whatever.) The ONLY CORRECT answer will be "I have Jesus in my heart as my Lord and Saviour."

Remember the words of Matthew 7:21-23, where Jesus says:

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Also Jesus told us in Matthew 7:13-14:

13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

From these verses, we can see that no one can "trick" God into letting him into Heaven. Simply put, do not rely on what an institution says, no matter what the institution is. Rely on what God says and you can't go wrong.

 

[Catchup]

Amen!

LOVE

 

[Chili]

From these verses, we can see that no one can "trick" God into letting him into Heaven. Simply put, do not rely on what an institution says, no matter what the institution is. Rely on what God says and you can't go wrong.

True, but how can protestantism be opposite to Catholicism and both be still right?

For one, Catholicism is a mystery religion (salvation is a mystery) and protestantism has recipes to follow.

Protestants encourage us to read the bible and study the significance of the words and Catholicsm as much as tells us not to study but listen to our heart (go directly to Jesus as in Jn.5:39-40). "[You] search the scriptures in which you think you have eternal life [because] they also testify on my behalf. Yet you are unwilling to come to me to possess that life."

 

[VOW]

To Lion Heart:

Let's not start making blanket statements about the Inquisition. For starters, there were more than one.

You need to PROVE that the leadership in Rome was 100% behind the Inquistions before you start blaming Catholicism for them...and you can't. They were political entities which used the power of the Church to do their dirty work.

Let's try for some historical accuracy, okay?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[cheezit]

Originally posted by Chili


True, but how can protestantism be opposite to Catholicism and both be still right?

They can't.

For one, Catholicism is a mystery religion (salvation is a mystery)

Just remember, you are the one that said Catholicism is a mystery religion. Why is salvation a mystery to you? How much of a mystery is it to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". The only "mystery" involved is why salvation is so simple.

Protestants encourage us to read the bible and study the significance of the words and Catholicsm as much as tells us not to study but listen to our heart (go directly to Jesus as in Jn.5:39-40). "[You] search the scriptures in which you think you have eternal life [because] they also testify on my behalf. Yet you are unwilling to come to me to possess that life."

"listen to your heart." Very good advise. But before you can listen to what your heart is telling you about Jesus, HE HAS TO BE IN THERE FIRST.

Salvation and belief in God do not come from "head" knowledge. They come from "heart" knowledge. Protestants do encourage you to read the Bible so that you can "get smarter" where the things of God are concerned. Not only that but to be able to know how to handle every day things in life that come up. Personally, I don't know if the Catholic Church teaches you NOT to read and study the Bible or not, but if I belonged to a Church (any church) that told me NOT to read and study the Bible, I'd leave so fast that their heads would be spinning for weeks.

 

[kern]

"mystery" in this context doesn't carry the usual definition.

A "mystery religion" is one in which there are secrets unveiled only to believers who are somehow initiated into the religion. There were a lot of mystery cults in Roman times around when Christianity started (the most famous one now is the cult of Isis from Apuleis' work "The Golden ***").

During the Eucharist part of the Mass, the priest says "Let us proclaim the mystery of faith". I must admit that I don't know exactly what this means, but I don't think it means a "mystery" in the modern sense of Sherlock Holmes-type stuff.

-Chris

 

[isshinwhat]

The response that follows the priest's urging is, "Christ has died. Christ is Risen. Christ will come again." That is the Mystery of Faith.

1 Corinthians 4:1
This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

The Eastern Churches still refer to the Sacraments as the Mysteries of God. I thought that was interesting.


Neal

 

[Lion Heart]

Originally posted by VOW
To Lion Heart:

Let's not start making blanket statements about the Inquisition. For starters, there were more than one.




Peace be with you,
~VOW

Can you discredit the refernces I gave you?

Do you want more references?

Yes, the Inquisitions, last hundreds of years and took thousand if not millions of lives.

Its a historical FACT.




Richard

 

[VOW]

To Lion Heart:

MILLIONS? Oh, come ON now!

YOU provide some backing for that proclamation!

Even the Black Plague didn't kill millions!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit
[BJust remember, you are the one that said Catholicism is a mystery religion. Why is salvation a mystery to you? How much of a mystery is it to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". The only "mystery" involved is why salvation is so simple.


"listen to your heart." Very good advise. But before you can listen to what your heart is telling you about Jesus, HE HAS TO BE IN THERE FIRST.

[/B]

Salvation is a mystery because it comes as a thief in the night and there is no way we can be knocking on the door and just open it because we want to be counted among the righteous.

Jesus said "I stand on the door an knock" and will give you a fish for if I knock why would you be given a scorpion? (paraphrased). On the other hand, who would get the scorpion? If indeed Jesus saves why do we argue about losing our salvation? If we are, or have become a new creation how can wee lose our salvation?

Many questions and more. Why does Jn.1:13 distinguish between salvation from God and salvation from carnal desire? So one can get a fish and the other a scorpion?

If the gate is soo narrow and a little sinners prayer so easy is this the same salvation we need to get through this narow gate?

 

[LouisBooth]

"Salvation is a mystery because it comes as a thief in the night and there is no way we can be knocking on the door and just open it because we want to be counted among the righteous. "

NO, the word salvation is NOT used at that part in the bible. Christ is talking about his return, NOT about salvation. Please do not add or take away words from the verses please.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit
. Personally, I don't know if the Catholic Church teaches you NOT to read and study the Bible or not, but if I belonged to a Church (any church) that told me NOT to read and study the Bible, I'd leave so fast that their heads would be spinning for weeks.

For the record:

I did not write that the Catholic Church teaches us not to read the bible.

 

[cheezit]

"If the gate is soo narrow and a little sinners prayer so easy is this the same salvation we need to get through this narow gate?

Yes it is.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Salvation is a mystery because it comes as a thief in the night and there is no way we can be knocking on the door and just open it because we want to be counted among the righteous. "

NO, the word salvation is NOT used at that part in the bible. Christ is talking about his return, NOT about salvation. Please do not add or take away words from the verses please.

OK, sorry, I understand the second coming of Christ to be when Christ is born unto us in a personal way.