UFOs

[stevevw]

I said I’d start a thread about UFOs so here it is. The news reported recently that there definitely are UFOs which can’t be explained. Not saying they’re aliens, but they don’t know what they are. What do you all think of UFOs?

I have been thinking about this for some time. I am not sure either way. But I have some possible reasons and explanations for what may be happening. Or perhaps questions I would like answered.

The biggest one is more a theological one. I cannot understand how there could be aliens like intelligent conscious humans with a conscience. That would mean they were subject to the fall and in need or salvation. I don't that what the Bible says happened twice for a number of reasons.

Pragmatically I find it hard to believe something unless I see it. Especially the biological matter they claim to have. Knowing humans ability to coverup things especially at high levels and how we can create narratives I am not sure what the truth is.

But I wouldn't be surprised that all this was a coverup for the US and maybe others like China have been secretly developing this tech themselves and theres no aliens. Maybe they have cracked the code of the quantum world. I mean we have discovered quarks and the Higgs Bosom what else is there to discover. It seems like cheating that some alien creatures came and gave us the tech.

Another idea floating around is the these flying phenomena an aliens are actually from the spirit world. Its satans way of introducing himself. Many abductees seem to mention the aliens were saying they were god or coming to save them and as a result the abductees have a life changing experience, like a spiritual awakening.

I tend to think if there are aliens then its something of a spiritual nature. Either that or theres some scary non humans coming to get us lol. But who knows.

 

[Aaron112]

I said I’d start a thread about UFOs so here it is. The news reported recently that there definitely are UFOs which can’t be explained. Not saying they’re aliens, but they don’t know what they are. What do you all think of UFOs?

What is a ufo? Unidentified. Most are later identified , and almost all are manmade. Some are natural occurences.
What is ufo dis-information ? Deception ? Worldwide, on purpose, towards a goal that is vicious and evil.

You don't wanna know

It's potentially too horrible to mention. Please forgive me for being so tantalizing and mysterious.

Lies/deceptions of government and science, with the added help of the media to play up the deception.​

Yes, Daily lies / deceptions , continually.

 

[Jipsah]

The biggest one is more a theological one. I cannot understand how there could be aliens like intelligent conscious humans with a conscience.

That's like saying "I can't understand how there could be Asians like intelligent conscious humans with a conscience." How? Because if there are any ET aliens, God put them there. The same way He put people on whatever part of this world He put them on. It's all His property, innit? He owns every atom in it in fee simple. "Oh, but Other Planets?" Yep, why not? No harder to create life on Beta Reticuli than in Cleveland if you're God.

That would mean they were subject to the fall

Why? Maybe they is and maybe they ain't, and only God need worry about that.

and in need or salvation. I don't that what the Bible says happened twice for a number of reasons.

Maybe for the same reason that Scripture never mentioned Australia; it wasn't relevant to the subject at hand.

Pragmatically I find it hard to believe something unless I see it.

I don't have to see it, but I do need lots of evidence.

Especially the biological matter they claim to have.

"Biological matter" being a dead fly, perhaps?

Knowing humans ability to coverup things especially at high levels and how we can create narratives I am not sure what the truth is.

Easy. And hard evidence there are ET aliens? No, none. Sorry, "Joe Bob saw him an alien". Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but the odds are against it, and Joe can offer no evidence for or against.

But I wouldn't be surprised that all this was a coverup for the US and maybe others like China have been secretly developing this tech themselves and theres no aliens.

That's far more likely. We know there are Americans and Chinese, we know they're both generally up to stuff they don't want us to know about, and we know there are lots of other smart folks on the planet as well, who also have the ability to yank game-changing tech out of their hats when we least expect it. Then agains, it could be aliens who we can't demonstrate exist at all. I'm gonna bet the rancho on aliens. Right.

Maybe they have cracked the code of the quantum world. I mean we have discovered quarks and the Higgs Bosom what else is there to discover. It seems like cheating that some alien creatures came and gave us the tech.

Especially if it turns out to be an imaginary alien creature.

Another idea floating around is the these flying phenomena an aliens are actually from the spirit world.

Considering that most, if not all, of these "flying phenomena" are boring old human build aircraft, there's little or no reason to believe in "flying saucers from the Spirit World". Next Level weapons tech direct from the Skunk Works is far, far, far, far, far (ad nauseum) more likely. No evidence that The Spirit World is into aviation at all.

Its satans way of introducing himself.

Stupid way of doing it, although admittedly Old Scratch doesn't seem to be over bright. He ought to know the Scripture better than we do, and so he knows that his butt is toast. If I were in his shoes I'd be trying to work something out with the Lord to keep from being deep fried.

Many abductees seem to mention the aliens were saying they were god or coming to save them and as a result the abductees have a life changing experience, like a spiritual awakening.

I'm sorry, but I can see little to distinguish the usual abduction story as from the account of many other kinds of psychcotic episode.

I tend to think if there are aliens then its something of a spiritual nature. Either that or theres some scary non humans coming to get us lol. But who knows.

Doesn't matter much whether a;liens are ETs or demons if there ain't any aliens.

 

[stevevw]

That's like saying "I can't understand how there could be Asians like intelligent conscious humans with a conscience." How? Because if there are any ET aliens, God put them there. The same way He put people on whatever part of this world He put them on. It's all His property, innit? He owns every atom in it in fee simple. "Oh, but Other Planets?" Yep, why not? No harder to create life on Beta Reticuli than in Cleveland if you're God.

Why? Maybe they is and maybe they ain't, and only God need worry about that.


Maybe for the same reason that Scripture never mentioned Australia; it wasn't relevant to the subject at hand.

Except Asia is part of planet earth where Christ came to save humankind.

I don't have to see it, but I do need lots of evidence.

"Biological matter" being a dead fly, perhaps?

It could be but I don't think a fly could operate a space craft.

Easy. And hard evidence there are ET aliens? No, none. Sorry, "Joe Bob saw him an alien". Maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but the odds are against it, and Joe can offer no evidence for or against.

That's far more likely. We know there are Americans and Chinese, we know they're both generally up to stuff they don't want us to know about, and we know there are lots of other smart folks on the planet as well, who also have the ability to yank game-changing tech out of their hats when we least expect it. Then agains, it could be aliens who we can't demonstrate exist at all. I'm gonna bet the rancho on aliens. Right.

Yeah I don't know. I know we are getting closer to cracking the code of quantum physics. So who knows.

Especially if it turns out to be an imaginary alien creature.

Considering that most, if not all, of these "flying phenomena" are boring old human build aircraft, there's little or no reason to believe in "flying saucers from the Spirit World". Next Level weapons tech direct from the Skunk Works is far, far, far, far, far (ad nauseum) more likely. No evidence that The Spirit World is into aviation at all.

When I say spirit world I was thinking more of satan and his fallen angels. What better way to fool humankind as a faux saviour of our world. An alien coming to save us from our own destruction. We would welcome them and hold them in high regard and allow them to tell us what to do in saving our planet and making life better.

Stupid way of doing it, although admittedly Old Scratch doesn't seem to be over bright. He ought to know the Scripture better than we do, and so he knows that his butt is toast. If I were in his shoes I'd be trying to work something out with the Lord to keep from being deep fried.

Well when you consider that Satan wants to be God what better way to fool everyone that he is our saviour. We would be in awe of such an alien creature able to perform great wonders with their tech. We would almost think of them as a god arriving from the heavens to save us.

I'm sorry, but I can see little to distinguish the usual abduction story as from the account of many other kinds of psychcotic episode.

Doesn't matter much whether a;liens are ETs or demons if there ain't any aliens.

We will have to wait and see,

 

[Jipsah]

Except Asia is part of planet earth where Christ came to save humankind.

Spare me. You think our Lord's sacrifice is somehow restricted to those within a certain radius? What's the range of atonement? Are we sure Australia was covered, or was it maybe just a tad too far away. C'mon, we're talking about God, OK?

It could be but I don't think a fly could operate a space craft

Didn't have to. He' still be "biological material" even if he'd only been there spreading germs

When I say spirit world I was thinking more of satan and his fallen angels. What better way to fool humankind as a faux saviour of our world.

Why faking non existent "aliens"? A fake Messiah (like, maybe, Mohammed) would work just as well, woudln't he?

An alien coming to save us from our own destruction. We would welcome them and hold them in high regard and allow them to tell us what to do in saving our planet and making life better.

Just like in the movies. Except in the movies we're always at war with them. I ain't seeing it.

Well when you consider that Satan wants to be God what better way to fool everyone that he is our saviour.

With a new Messiah. Which is already the world's fastest growing religion. And we're still blathering about aliens?

We would be in awe of such an alien creature able to perform great wonders with their tech. We would almost think of them as a god arriving from the heavens to save us.

Interesting that the first reaction of most humans to an alien contact is reaching for their guns. But we're going to shove that aside and designate them Modern Gods. Right.

 

[stevevw]

Spare me. You think our Lord's sacrifice is somehow restricted to those within a certain radius? What's the range of atonement? Are we sure Australia was covered, or was it maybe just a tad too far away. C'mon, we're talking about God, OK?

Yes but Gods creation and salvation seems so much about us and planet earth. How would aliens on some far away planet even hear about Christ. Part of the intimacy and realness of Christ is that it happened in our history. We can go to the places where Christ walked.

Didn't have to. He' still be "biological material" even if he'd only been there spreading germs

Yes but how did the fly get here. It would be strange to find a crashed alien ship with no aliens but rather a couple of alien insects. Nevertheless if they find an alien insect then thats good enough. We would have to assume that there had to have been an alien manning the ship anyway for it to get here..

Why faking non existent "aliens"? A fake Messiah (like, maybe, Mohammed) would work just as well, woudln't he?

yeah I guess so but doesn't it say that the false Christ will perform great wonders. Mohammed is gone. The anti Christ is yet to come. What better way for a go like being performing wonders such as an alien with tech beyond this world who has come to save us from ourselves.

Just like in the movies. Except in the movies we're always at war with them. I ain't seeing it.

It would be silly for Satan to go to war with the earth and humans. He wants to convince everyone to be on his side.

With a new Messiah. Which is already the world's fastest growing religion. And we're still blathering about aliens?

The new Messiah the anti Christ is yet to come. I don't think he will announce himself as the new messiah. Just as a new species of humanoid with great knowledge and tech and able to convince many of his good intentions to help us.

Interesting that the first reaction of most humans to an alien contact is reaching for their guns. But we're going to shove that aside and designate them Modern Gods. Right.

From the videos I have seen people seem to react in awe and amazement not believing what they are seeing. I don't think many would reach for a gun considering the vast tech advantage aliens may have.

 

[Jipsah]

Yes but Gods creation and salvation seems so much about us and planet earth.

Yeah, it's All About Us. Until it ain't.

How would aliens on some far away planet even hear about Christ.

Well, if I were God I could probably answer that.

Part of the intimacy and realness of Christ is that it happened in our history. We can go to the places where Christ walked.

This is back to "how far away is too far for God" question again, innit?

Yes but how did the fly get here.

Hint: The debris, if any, wasn't found on another planet.

It would be strange to find a crashed alien ship with no aliens but rather a couple of alien insects.

Who said alien insects?

Nevertheless if they find an alien insect then thats good enough. We would have to assume that there had to have been an alien manning the ship anyway for it to get here..

Which brings us back to "what aliens"? The ones of whose very existence WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE? Those aliens?

yeah I guess so but doesn't it say that the false Christ will perform great wonders.

Like what?

Mohammed is gone.

He made no claim to being Messiah anyway. Al Mahdi is the Muslim Messiah, and millions upon millions of Muslims are ready to go full jihad now if they believe he's shown up. And he won't require a flying saucer.

The anti Christ is yet to come. What better way for a go like being performing wonders such as an alien with tech beyond this world who has come to save us from ourselves.

That might make more sense if we had any reason to believe in aliens in the first place. At this point we have no valid reason at all to believe that there are any aliens.

It would be silly for Satan to go to war with the earth and humans. He wants to convince everyone to be on his side.

So he suits his minions up as "aliens" in flying saucers, because in the vast majority of sci-fi stories ever written are our implacable enemies. Yeah, that's the way to win folk over.

The new Messiah the anti Christ is yet to come. I don't think he will announce himself as the new messiah. Just as a new species of humanoid with great knowledge and tech and able to convince many of his good intentions to help us.

Oh yeah, I can see the thousands of millions of Christians and Muslims flocking to sign up with a bloke who fulfills all the warnings of their faiths of a diabolical enemy.

From the videos I have seen people seem to react in awe and amazement not believing what they are seeing.

Videos of what?

I don't think many would reach for a gun considering the vast tech advantage aliens may have.

Watch any SF flick about an alien invasion. Bottom line is, humans ain't going gentle into that alien night except in some "end times" fantasies.

 

[stevevw]

Yeah, it's All About Us. Until it ain't.
Well, if I were God I could probably answer that.

The point is God sent His son to earth to save us. He didn't send his sone to how ever many alien planets there are to be re-crucuified and resurreted on their plants. If they are conscious beings with a conscience then they are fallen being in need of salvation without any way of being saved.

This is back to "how far away is too far for God" question again, innit?

No its how far away is too far away for the aliens to hear about Christs life on planet earth to hear the gospel of salvation. .

Hint: The debris, if any, wasn't found on another planet.
Who said alien insects?

Oh ok. You said the biological matter they claimed to have found may have been a fly. I said how can a fly drive a spaceship. Now your saying the insect may have just been from earth. But the claim is it wasn't from earth and it was implied they were the aliens who manned the space ship.

Which brings us back to "what aliens"? The ones of whose very existence WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE? Those aliens?

Ok I thought we were talking hypothetically. So we come back to my original statement that only direct evidence (people actually seeing the space craft and the biological matter will satisfy.

Like what?

The Bible mentions the anti-Christ will perform miracles and great wonders in the sky making fire come down from the sky whatever that means. But I think the idea is he is trying to immitate God. So whatever God can do he will try to copy.

He made no claim to being Messiah anyway. Al Mahdi is the Muslim Messiah, and millions upon millions of Muslims are ready to go full jihad now if they believe he's shown up. And he won't require a flying saucer.

The problem is the anti-Christ will rule the world for a time, convincing people and no one will be able to buy or sell without his mark. So even Muslims will be subject to the anti-Christ because it appears to be economic control as well and ther Muslims ain't exactly in any position to control the worlds economy. In fact the anti-Christ makes himeself a god in the Jewish temple and not any mosque.

That might make more sense if we had any reason to believe in aliens in the first place. At this point we have no valid reason at all to believe that there are any aliens.

That has been my point all along that hypothetically if satan was to come to earth in the end times to fool many including Christians then he must come in a way that makes him seem like a god with great power and authority. The alien example is a hypothetical but to many Christians the antiChrist is a reality that is yet to happen. I am just hypothesising that aliens may be how the anti-Christ can convince people of his godlike status.

If he came back as himself, an evil entity then people would realize immediately to avid him and not believe anything he says. So he has to either rise within the ranks of humans or become something like an alien being who comes to save earth. Coming as a human and being able to perform great wonders seems a little unreal as humans cannot edo this. But as an alien this would be ideal because it allows for amazing tech that would seem a miracle to humans and to convince everyone because they are more advanced.

So he suits his minions up as "aliens" in flying saucers, because in the vast majority of sci-fi stories ever written are our implacable enemies. Yeah, that's the way to win folk over.

There are also movies where the aliens are friendly ie ET. I think most people would agree that going to war with aliens is not a good idea considering they have advanced tech. We would most likly be cautious and want to befriend them. It will also depend on how the aliens appraoch us. They may communicate they come in peace so we would be unwise to attack them. If satan is to convince and fool everyone attacking them is not going to work.

Oh yeah, I can see the thousands of millions of Christians and Muslims flocking to sign up with a bloke who fulfills all the warnings of their faiths of a diabolical enemy.

I don't think most people will recognise an alien as fullfilling any prophesy. It will be more a case that whoever is the anti-Christ is going to fool even Christians that he is not satan opr any fullfillment of Biblical prophesy. Thats the whole point however that may happen. In fact the Quran doesn't even have an end time revelation.

Videos of what?

All these latest videos we see on UFO's or UAP's. You can here the witnesses going wow whats they and not running away in fear. I think people have been primed now to be more open to unusual things happening and are not as scared. In fact in some ways its become cultist.

Watch any SF flick about an alien invasion. Bottom line is, humans ain't going gentle into that alien night except in some "end times" fantasies.

I don't know about that. Like I said we have become quite use to unusual events happening. The media has been flooded with this, people going into scary places to find spirits, horror movies, scifi movies, virtual reality of amazing things happening, real life war and stuff being thrown in our faces to desensitize us. .

 

[secretmessenger22@gmail]

I personally agree that "real" UFOs are the work of fallen angels and / or the demons/nephillim as mentioned in Genesis before the great flood. Actually there is a book that has helped me refine my thinking on this subject it is called 'Corrupting the Image" by Douglas Hamp.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I said I’d start a thread about UFOs so here it is. The news reported recently that there definitely are UFOs which can’t be explained. Not saying they’re aliens, but they don’t know what they are. What do you all think of UFOs?

They are "unidentified.

 

[Hawkins]

I said I’d start a thread about UFOs so here it is. The news reported recently that there definitely are UFOs which can’t be explained. Not saying they’re aliens, but they don’t know what they are. What do you all think of UFOs?

It's just like the wheat field circles. It gives a warning to the self-pride humans that "they are not alone", and "not that advanced" at all.

 

[FaithT]

It's just like the wheat field circles. It gives a warning to the self-pride humans that "they are not alone", and "not that advanced" at all.

I saw something on tv that showed the crop circles were a hoax and showed how they did it. I don’t know if ALL crop circles were hoaxes but some were.

 

[Jipsah]

It's just like the wheat field circles. It gives a warning to the self-pride humans that "they are not alone", and "not that advanced" at all.

Wheat field circles do that? Dang, we're easily impressed, aren't we?

 

[BobRyan]

I saw something on tv that showed the crop circles were a hoax and showed how they did it. I don’t know if ALL crop circles were hoaxes but some were.

True they have shown that some were.

 

[BobRyan]

I said I’d start a thread about UFOs so here it is. The news reported recently that there definitely are UFOs which can’t be explained. Not saying they’re aliens, but they don’t know what they are.

True - both the Military and other news sources are all admitting to it.

What do you all think of UFOs?

In the old days - we could say that a lot of them were some sort of hoax.

While hoaxes still do exist - I have not seen very many military jets chasing down swamp gas and claiming that it out maneuvered them and then outran them so they could not follow it. Swamp gas may have some talent - but clearly not that much talent.

The real question is that in the non-swamp gas instances - what is showing up in our skies? If it is not a rock dropping out of orbit and it can maneuver then someone is controlling it - and that someone is not a rabbit or swamp gas.

As Christians we know for a fact that intelligent beings come to Earth and they are far in advance of humans. we call them good angels and others we call bad angels.

 

[Jipsah]

True - both the Military and other news sources are all admitting to it.

Admitting that peple have seen flying things they couldn't identify. Sonuvagun.

In the old days - we could say that a lot of them were some sort of hoax.

Which a lot of them certainly were.

While hoaxes still do exist - I have not seen very many military jets chasing down swamp gas and claiming that it out maneuvered them and then outran them so they could not follow it. Swamp gas may have some talent - but clearly not that much talent.

You like you swamp gas don't you? I've got a better. A woman in Tennessee reported that she was pursued by a silver spherical UFO that paced her car for miles, often staying just beyond the tree line. No word as to whether if defied the laws of physics or not, as the moon sometimes does under those circumstances. Be of good cheer, no swamp gas was injured during her attempts to escape the moon.

The real question is that in the non-swamp gas instances - what is showing up in our skies?

Mostly airplanes, as most UFO researchers will tell you. Swamp gas is really low on the list, behind aircraft, spacecraft (the kind sent up from the earth), satellites, planets (Venus and Mars are all right tonight),the moon, laser shows (yep), search lights, and a ton of other really disappointing stuff.

But if you want to prattle about on about swamp gas, well, I reckon you have to take what you can get.

If it is not a rock dropping out of orbit and it can maneuver then someone is controlling it - and that someone is not a rabbit or swamp gas.

An airplane can do all that stuff, though, can't it? And it can also, if properly equipped, generate dozens of visible-only-to-radar "bogeys", aka UFOs, to confuse their enemies. The tech's been around since WW2, although it's a lot more sophisticated over the years. Apparently even heroic steely-eyed fighter jocks can't necessarily tell a man-made UFO from the imaginary ones from the planet Zonk.

But no, it's utterly impossible to generate a "bogey" that looks like it's moving at Mach 7500 while dancing all over the skies. Just not possible, end of. Only magic spacemen or demons from hell can do that., in the hopes of deceiving us into believing something or other, we're not sure what.

As Christians we know for a fact that intelligent beings come to Earth and they are far in advance of humans. we call them good angels and others we call bad angels.

Yeah, in the end, if you see something flying and you can't tell what it is, it's a demon. Can't be anything else.

 

[BobRyan]

While hoaxes still do exist - I have not seen very many military jets chasing down swamp gas and claiming that it out maneuvered them and then outran them so they could not follow it. Swamp gas may have some talent - but clearly not that much talent.

I've got a better. A woman in Tennessee reported that she was pursued by a silver spherical UFO

Does not sound "better" than getting telemetry and eye witness testimony from fighter pilots and crew - maybe you and I have a very different definition for the word "better".

Swamp gas is really low on the list, behind aircraft

So what aircraft outran our top of the line fighter jets? Went down to the surface of the ocean than flew in a pattern with the jets - then took off faster than our jets could follow OR track.

You need to up your game here -- to something more than "a woman from Tennessee" - if you want to propose something that really is "better" as a sighting.

 

[Jipsah]

Does not sound "better" than getting telemetry and eye witness testimony from fighter pilots and crew - maybe you and I have a very different definition for the word "better".

Depends on what the telemetry data and the eyewitness accounts showed. Apparently it wasn't sufficient to determine what it was, except to those who already "know" what it was as an article of faith.

As for "better"i my case it would be actual data of some kind from the sightings, other than a "it looked like a tictac" and "it went real fast". The reported speeds argue against it being any material object at all, for a variety of evil sciencey reasons. But hey, haints and demons are magic, and can thumb their ethereal noses at the laws that constrain real-world objects. But "better"in your case means anything that makes for an even vaguely credible spooky-loo story for folkswho are already inclined to believe that sort of thing anyway.
"

So what aircraft outran our top of the line fighter jets?

Probably none. Electronic spoofing is my bet. But hey, I'mjust an old Electrical Engineer,how much could I knowabout such things? "Chaff" or"window" was the WW2 vintage radar spoofer. Creates swarms of aircraft on radar that don't actually exist. That was in the days of vacuum tubes and computers that took up buildings. Nothing much changed in the world of electronic counter measures in the last 80 years or right? <ROFL>

Went down to the surface of the ocean than flew in a pattern with the jets - then took off faster than our jets could follow OR track.

See above. Remember the story of the redneck engineer who made a beat-up old sedan appear to be going 300 mph on cop radar, using textbook knowledge and <$100 worth of parts. (Hint: me and two accomplices) You'd probably have thought the car was driven by demons or spacemen, right? "Defied The Laws of Physics!" <Laugh>

You need to up your game here -- to something more than "a woman from Tennessee" - if you want to propose something that really is "better" as a sighting.

OK, the old car was actually swamp gas. The woman was still followed by the moon, though. Another UFO identified - the moon.

 

[BobRyan]

Depends on what the telemetry data and the eyewitness accounts showed.

Which is the very thing the military sources with access to that telemetry data are affirming. Details matter.

Apparently it wasn't sufficient to determine what it was

Only if you are inclined to ignore the details they do admit to.

NOT knowing every detail but still knowing that the thing out maneuvered your best military jet fighters and out flew them - many generations ahead in technology - is "sufficient" to get beyond your high standard of "a woman from Tennessee saw something from her car one day"

One thing is for sure -- there have been no arguments supporting the idea that what swamp gas does should be classified as top secret and anyone who observes it in the military should be at risk of their life if they report what they saw swamp gas doing. Same goes for "what a woman from Tennessee saw from her car".

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
So what aircraft outran our top of the line fighter jets?

Probably none. Electronic spoofing is my bet. But hey, I'm just an old Electrical Engineer,

Who apparently does not pay attention to the topic , the eyewitnesses etc.

Electronic spoofing - DOES NOT result in fighter pilots getting visual confirmation of the object - following it in flight and watching it both out maneuver and far outdistance them. The idea that all the tracking systems on board the ships, on the jets AND THE VISUAL confirmation were all "being spoofed by an electrical engineer" some place - is hard to credit. Wouldn't you agree.??