It would be lonely for me were it true that Catholics alone see the face of God.Peter replies well that is the Catholics room and they think they’re the only ones here.
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It would be lonely for me were it true that Catholics alone see the face of God.Peter replies well that is the Catholics room and they think they’re the only ones here.
It would be lonely for me were it true that Catholics alone see the face of God.
Reducing His sacrifice on the Cross, His establishing His Church on Earth for the salvation of souls to a joke.No actually I find the poster mature, kind and very welcoming and I want to display Christian attitudes by honoring his request to stay on topic.
Reminds me of a joke I heard.
A Christian dies and goes to heaven and is greeted at the Pearly gate by Saint Peter. As they walk through heaven, they find different areas one room has all the Baptist and other assemblies of God another yet another denomination and then they see a closed room and St. Peter says be very quiet as we pass this room.
As he gets to the other side of the room, the person asks Saint Peter why did we have to be quiet? Peter replies well that is the Catholics room and they think they’re the only ones here.
I just want you to know that I don’t feel about you the way you feel about me, and I don’t regard your ministry as you regard mine. But I honestly love you with the love of Christ and I pray to God that he fills you with all the fullness of his knowledge and that you grow closer to him each and every day and that your church is blessed.
The early Church has always taught Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and ancient Church of the East all accept this. It wasn’t even considered “symbolic” until the reformation.It's amazing to me how so many bright, scholarly Christian leaders can fail to understand a simple literary figure. Jesus is saying that the bread represents his body, figuratively, and that the wine represents his blood, figuratively, which was soon to see his death on the cross. Christians were encouraged to remind themselves not just that he did this to forgive us our sins, but also so that we could have his presence within us.
So yes, there is a real presence being displayed *figuratively,* so that in our personal experience we experience these things in reality. But what we experience in terms of eating the bread and drinking the wine is not in themselves the transformation. Rather, it is what they represent by our choosing to do this ritual that signifies we accept his presence in our lives on behalf of our redemption. And we are exhorted to take our commitment to this ritual and to what it represents very seriously.
Yes, that's probably true. However, I'm not sure the question that the bread and the wine might get "transformed" was on the table either?? I don't suppose that anyone would've questioned that Jesus was "present" when he served up the Communion. And nobody would question whether his presence, via the Holy Spirit, is in the room whenever the Communion is served up either?The early Church has always taught Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and ancient Church of the East all accept this. It wasn’t even considered “symbolic” until the reformation.
“Do not see – Saint Cyril of Jerusalem exhorts – in the bread and wine merely natural elements, because the Lord has expressly said that they are his body and his blood: faith assures you of this, though your senses suggest otherwise”.24
It is a divine mystery; a miracle. Most Christians not only know that the real presence is a fulfilment of our Lord's promise to be with us always, but we also believe in miracles, and accept them when they happen. In the case of the Eucharist, each and every time it is celebrated and shared. The world has gotten too sinical; if we doubt a simple little miracle like the Eucharist, how can we believe in His resurrection? His incarnation, His promise of life everlasting?Yes, that's probably true. However, I'm not sure the question that the bread and the wine might get "transformed" was on the table either?? <Snip>
It seems very much like this statement:That's an interesting statement.
It seems very much like this statement:
Hebrews 11:1 Geneva Now faith is the ground of things, which are hoped for, and the evidence of things which are not seen.
"That statement from the guy" is from St. Cyril of Jerusalem's Catechetical Homilies, which was a series of sermons preached to prospective converts in the days leading up to Easter, when they would be baptized and brought into the church. They are a series of teachings on what the Christian faith is, not a promotion of personal opinions.Naaaaa,.... that statement from the guy is promoting a personal belief in the situation.
God the Son did tell us beforehand that He would institute this sacrament.Anytime someone has to try and believe something will happen that GOD hasn't already told them about beforehand and provided the evidence of,..... that's just personal belief. That's not the same as faith.
Really? "Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (Jn 20:29)In other words, even though you're not seeing it change, you're suppose to believe that it did. That doesn't sound like biblical faith.
Here's a question: where in the Bible does it say that you're supposed to see the effects of a miracle to believe it?
It’s a sacred mystery.Yes, that's probably true. However, I'm not sure the question that the bread and the wine might get "transformed" was on the table either?? I don't suppose that anyone would've questioned that Jesus was "present" when he served up the Communion. And nobody would question whether his presence, via the Holy Spirit, is in the room whenever the Communion is served up either?
And I'm asking you: where is your scripture to back that up?
As the passage from Hebrews says, faith is the evidence. The whole point is that God doesn't have to give us material evidence for us to believe (although Eucharistic miracles can and have happened where there is a visible transformation of the elements into flesh and blood). Faith - not just intellectual assent, but true faith - is a gift from God, and the fact that it has been given is evidence enough. That's what the passage in Hebrews is saying.Here is what it says faith is,....
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Ok,.... what evidence do you have from GOD that what you hoped for is going to happen?
"This is My body."There is no evidence from GOD that anything will happen
It has, search for "Eucharistic miracle" and you'll find examples.and from what I can tell, nothing has ever happened during one of these events
That would be faith, yes. We keep believing in the bodily resurrection, even though as far as we've seen, dead people's bodies haven't been resurrected yet. This is what Paul means when he says we walk by faith, not by sight.but yet you're just suppose to keep believing without results.
One can see the crucifixion of Christ as an historical event via witness accounts. One can not see the Atonement as it is a supernatural event. Not seeing this event but believing by faith IS BIBLICAL FAITH.That statement from the guy specifically said to keep believing even though you don't see it change with your eyes. Like I said, that doesn't sound like biblical faith.
As the passage from Hebrews says, faith is the evidence. The whole point is that God doesn't have to give us material evidence for us to believe (although Eucharistic miracles can and have happened where there is a visible transformation of the elements into flesh and blood). Faith - not just intellectual assent, but true faith - is a gift from God, and the fact that it has been given is evidence enough. That's what the passage in Hebrews is saying.
The demand for physical evidence is the same one that is made by atheists: where is the evidence that God answers any of your prayers? Where is the evidence that Jesus was resurrected rather than his body being hidden? Where is the evidence of the existence of heaven and hell? We know these things by faith, not by a forensic examination.
That is not what faith is.Without GOD giving you that faith first, ie telling you that it is going to happen
So you keep saying, but that is not what the Bible says.Faith has results.
That is not what faith is.
So you keep saying, but that is not what the Bible says.
Yes, my Baptism, when I was about 1 week old. I can not remember not having faith in Jesus Christ.Did you have a born again "experience?"
If not, then I question how you would have faith without an answer from heaven.