The Rapture theory is true?

[iamlamad]

Bible Proof: The Rapture Theory is False.

John 17:15

There is a teaching today that is rife within the Christian world, called rapture. What is the rapture theory? It is to believed by those who hold to this theory (and there are MANY who do), that the "church" will be raptured away to heaven and then the earth will continue for a period of seven years (called the tribulation) in which the inhabitants of the earth will be plunged into a time of great trouble and strife (more so than now). So according to this teaching there is a separation to take place between the saved and the lost BEFORE the end of the world.

...

And why do we "meet the Lord in the air? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be the END of the 1000 year millennium. This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.
The rapture theory is a false teaching, and the Bible proves that fact. But please know that if people do suddenly "disappear", Satan and his angels will be behind it!
Bless.

It is really OK for you to believe all this. God has given mankind a free will and the right of choice. If you choose to deny a pretrib rapture, that is OK too. You will be left behind to face the Beast, will be "overcome," and be forced to choose: take the mark, or lose your head. That too will be your free will choice. You can still make it to heaven as one of the beheaded.

By only question is, WHY? When God has created an escape plan, as shown in Luke 21:36? Why not take the planned escape rather than lost your head? Why allow yourself to get into such a high pressure situation (the days of GT) when God has planned an escape?

Did you not notice that Paul gives TIMING in his rapture passage? If you notice, in 1 Thes. 5, just three verses after his classic rapture verse (4:17) He writes of the Day of the Lord. Then he writes of the Wrath of God. (The Day of the Lord IS the day of His wrath). Paul is showing us that HIS gathering or rapture will come before wrath - that is JUST before wrath, as in His pretrib coming will be the TRIGGER for first the rapture, then the start of the Day of the Lord.

Did you just not notice that Jon starts the Day of the Lord (as the day of His wrath) at the 6th seal? (So Paul's rapture must come before that.) Did you just not notice that the 6th seal is just one of 7 seals that must all be opened before the BOOK can be opened to reveal the 7 angels with 7 trumpets?

Did you just not notice that John saw the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter - as the large crowd too large to number? That is the second proof that the rapture will take place before any part of the 70th week.

Did you not notice that the Midpoint of the 70th week is marked by a 7: the 7th trumpet - proven by the fleeing in 12:6. They flee because they SEE the abomination that divides the week. Did you not notice that the week ENDS with the 7th vial? So the midpoint and the end of the week is marked by 7's. One could easily guess then, the START of the week would be marked by a 7 also: the 7th seal. It is truth: God has marked the entire 70th week with 7's.

Just common sense tells us that chapter 6 and the 6th seal (time of the rapture) comes BEFORE the 7th seal and start of the week. My friend, this is one reason why MANY PEOPLE believe in a pretrib rapture: it is SCRIPTURAL (when one studies the right scriptures."

Did you just not notice that PAUL was the one man that received the revelation of the rapture? NOT Matthew, NOT Mark, NOT Luke, and NOT John: it was Paul. Again, common sense would tell us to study PAUL on the timing of the rapture, NOT the gospels! Did you just not notice that Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, so the gospels, about Jesus, are mostly pointed to the JEWS? Why would ANYONE using common sense look to the gospels to find information about the Gentile church of today?

Did you just not notice that PAUL was sent to the Gentiles and the 11 were sent to the dispersed of Israel? Common sense then would tell people to study PAUL for information about the Gentile church of today.

Did you just not notice that in Rev. 19 - a scene in heaven - the church is all there, included the guests for the marriage - the OT saints - and they marriage and supper then take place IN HEAVEN. (in your theory no one makes it to the marriage!). Did you just not notice that Jesus does not descend until AFTER the marriage and supper?

It seems that is a whole lot that you did not notice.

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus literally said he would come for us on the last day. It's as simple as that.

But WHO is "us?" Was that passage pointed to the Gentile church of today?

 

[Oseas]

And why do we "meet the Lord in the air? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be the END of the 1000 year millennium. This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.

What you preaching is mere speculations, and suppositions, and guessings, and presumptions, and conjectures, and so on. Bad, very bad and dangerous. There is no truth in your way.

What prevails is the Word of God, by the way, the Word is God, from everlasting to everlasting, understand?

Revelation 11:v.15 - 18 :
15 - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (This will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, the Word is God, understand?)

1 Corinthians 15:v.24 to 28
24 The END cometh when he -JESUS-shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, the Word is God, understand?)

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (This will fulfil LITERALLY henceforth)

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (Yeah, death will be destroyed soon, It is not a magic, it is a process, understand? The Word is God.)

27 For he hath put all things under his feet (except only one thing). When he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

JESUS, my Lord, said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (Mat.28:v.18. Do you believe?)

2Thessalonians 1:v.7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in this Day. (The Lord's Day)

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ

Yeah, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Matt.25:v.8-12
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (This will fulfil LITERALLY now in the END of the times. The Word is God, understand?)

 

[Freedm]

But WHO is "us?" Was that passage pointed to the Gentile church of today?

Who? The answer is in the scriptures.

1. All that he has given me.
2. Everyone who looks to the son and believes
3. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus does not distinguish between Jew or Gentile.

 

[iamlamad]

Who? The answer is in the scriptures.

1. All that he has given me.
2. Everyone who looks to the son and believes
3. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus does not distinguish between Jew or Gentile.

Do we form doctrine from one verse, or one chapter, when there is so much elsewhere in the scripture? If you insist "who" means every believer, then "last day" means the "Day of the Lord," an extended day where God ends the Jewish age. Why? Because when we form a theory, it then must fit ALL end time passages.

By the way, Jesus was sent "to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."
Paul wrote, "to the Jew first, then to the Gentile." Jesus does distinguish between Jew and Gentile. Paul used the word "Gentile" 44 times - if I counted right. it is only when a Jew or Gentile is born again that there is no longer a distinction, but even then it is only in the spiritual realm. What do I mean? A bald headed man will still be bald headed after he is born again: the change happened in the realm of the spirit. So if Jew is born again, in the flesh he is still a Jew.

Just what is "the last day?" There is the Gentile church of today that will have "a last day." It will be the day of the pretrib rapture where the age of grace will change to the Day of the Lord.

Then the Jewish age of which Daniel wrote - the age that will end with 70th weeks of years - that age will also have a last day. But it will not be the SAME "last day." It will be the day that the 7th vial is poured out - the event that marks the last day of the 70th week of Daniel.

We have to look to Paul to find the timing of the rapture (and last day) of the Gentile church of today. Why? Paul was sent to the Gentiles. The 11 were sent to the dispersed Jews. Paul said that the rapture was a MYSTERY before He revealed it. He was the only writer of the NT that received a revelation of the rapture of the church.

The truth is, the Gentile church was not a sure thing when Jesus said those words. God was going to wait and see if Israel accepted Him as their Messiah as a nation. If that had happened, God would not have put blindness on the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles. That is why "who" is very important. Jesus was talking to Jews about the end of their age. But the words He used would certainly fit all Gentiles too. Therefore, we must fit what Jesus said with what Paul wrote. They both must agree.

So how do YOU find agreement? I am guessing you then put Paul's rapture on the last day of the JEWISH age. Am I right?

If you do that, you create more scriptural problems then you solve. If the timing of the rapture was as simply and reading one verse, we would all believe the same thing. Forums would have much less to discuss!

 

[iamlamad]

What you preaching is mere speculations, and suppositions, and guessings, and presumptions, and conjectures, and so on. Bad, very bad and dangerous. There is no truth in your way.

What prevails is the Word of God, by the way, the Word is God, from everlasting to everlasting, understand?

Revelation 11:v.15 - 18 :
15 - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (This will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, the Word is God, understand?)

1 Corinthians 15:v.24 to 28
24 The END cometh when he -JESUS-shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, the Word is God, understand?)

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. (This will fulfil LITERALLY henceforth)

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (Yeah, death will be destroyed soon, It is not a magic, it is a process, understand? The Word is God.)

27 For he hath put all things under his feet (except only one thing). When he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

JESUS, my Lord, said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (Mat.28:v.18. Do you believe?)

2Thessalonians 1:v.7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in this Day. (The Lord's Day)

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ

Yeah, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Matt.25:v.8-12
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. (This will fulfil LITERALLY now in the END of the times. The Word is God, understand?)

(The Lord's Day) Please define this with scripture?

 

[Freedm]

Just what is "the last day?"

The phrase explains itself. The last day means there are no more days following it. In other words, you can not have a thousand years following the last day, because years are made of days.

The last day is literally the last day. That is what Jesus said. Simple.

There is the Gentile church of today that will have "a last day." It will be the day of the pretrib rapture where the age of grace will change to the Day of the Lord.

In order for that doctrine to work you literally have to change the words of Jesus. He did not say "the last day before the rapture" or "the last day before the day of the lord" or "the last day before the thousand years". He didn't say any of that.

So how do YOU find agreement? I am guessing you then put Paul's rapture on the last day of the JEWISH age. Am I right?

There is no such thing as "The Jewish age". The day of our resurrection/transformation (what you call "rapture") is literally on the last day. That means there will be no more night, and there will be no more sun or moon in the sky. If you know what a day is, then you know what the last day looks like. It's not rocket science.

If the timing of the rapture was as simply and reading one verse, we would all believe the same thing. Forums would have much less to discuss!

We would all believe the same thing if we all simply believed what we read and didn't try to make it fit something else. Don't change the words of Jesus. If his words don't align with your doctrine, then your doctrine is false.

 

[iamlamad]

The phrase explains itself. The last day means there are no more days following it. In other words, you can not have a thousand years following the last day, because years are made of days.

The last day is literally the last day. That is what Jesus said. Simple.


In order for that doctrine to work you literally have to change the words of Jesus. He did not say "the last day before the rapture" or "the last day before the day of the lord" or "the last day before the thousand years". He didn't say any of that.


There is no such thing as "The Jewish age". The day of our resurrection/transformation (what you call "rapture") is literally on the last day. That means there will be no more night, and there will be no more sun or moon in the sky. If you know what a day is, then you know what the last day looks like. It's not rocket science.


We would all believe the same thing if we all simply believed what we read and didn't try to make it fit something else. Don't change the words of Jesus. If his words don't align with your doctrine, then your doctrine is false.

The last day means there are no more days following it. That is sort of like saying the 7th trumpet is Paul's "last trump" because it is the last. Indeed, the 7th trump IS the last of that series. "The last day" could certainly mean that, but it can also mean the Day of the Lord. That too is "the last day." I really don't think there is "time" after the Day of the Lord ends."
Cases in point: the day of the rapture will be the last day of the age of grace or the church age. The day of the 7th vial will be the last 24 hour day of the Jewish age and the last 24 hour day of the 70th week. But that will be INSIDE the Day of the Lord which will continue on.

In order for that doctrine to work you literally have to change the words of Jesus. He did not say "the last day before the rapture" or "the last day before the day of the lord" or "the last day before the thousand years". He didn't say any of that. True. But then Paul did not say that his "last trump" was the last of a series either, but I am convinced that is the meaning. It is VERY likely that Paul's "last trump" will be the long and final blast of the trumpet that ends the Feast of Trumpets. Why is that? Because the Feast of trumpets has long been known as the feast where "no man knows the day nor hour.

Another example: of the born again experience, Paul wrote "all is become new." Yet, a bald headed man getting born again is still bald headed after - he is just happier and saved. Paul COULD have said "all is become new in the Spiritual realm." He didn't. We have to figure that out.

Just reading Rev. 20 proves that all people will not be raised at the same time. Proving will must therefore "qualify" what Jesus said or try to understand it in the light of all other scriptures. Since two groups of people will rise over a thousand years apart, what then did Jesus really mean? Could it mean He was speaking of the last day being the Day of the Lord that will end the Jewish age? Or could he mean that EVERY raising will happen on the last day of SOMETHING?

There is no such thing as "The Jewish age". Then please explain why Daniel said that the 70th weeks was for HIS People? If it is for HIS people, the Jews, then it is NOT for the Gentiles. You are defeating your own argument. if there is no "age" that was is "the last day" the last day OF?

The day of our resurrection/transformation (what you call "rapture") is literally on the last day. The last day of WHAT? It will certainly be on the last day of the time of the Gentiles. It will also be on the last day of the church age - probably another age that you will deny exists.

Will there be "days" during the 1000 years? Will the sun still be in the sky? If what you wrote was true, then the rapture would not be until after the 1000 years. Yet, we are to be judges during the 1000 years.

We would all believe the same thing if we all simply believed what we read and didn't try to make it fit something else. I have not counted them, but there are MANY end time verses. Your theory here on the last day MUST FIT all end times passages. In your own words then, you must read Rev. 20 and believe what it says: there will be a resurrection BEFORE the 1000 years and another AFTER - which seems to blow this theory up.

If his words don't align with your doctrine, then your doctrine is false. Not "my" doctrine: it is OTHER SCRIPTURES. What are you going to do about TWO resurrections in Revelation, separated by TIME?

 

[Freedm]

The last day means there are no more days following it. That is sort of like saying the 7th trumpet is Paul's "last trump" because it is the last. Indeed, the 7th trump IS the last of that series.

On the contrary. The 7th trump is not called "the last trump". If it were then we would know for certain it was the last. As it is we know only for certain it is the 7th.

Just reading Rev. 20 proves that all people will not be raised at the same time.

I disagree.

There is no such thing as "The Jewish age". Then please explain why Daniel said that the 70th weeks was for HIS People? If it is for HIS people, the Jews, then it is NOT for the Gentiles. You are defeating your own argument. if there is no "age" that was is "the last day" the last day OF?

You're making things needlessly complicated. The last day is the last day of days.

The day of our resurrection/transformation (what you call "rapture") is literally on the last day. The last day of WHAT?

There is no "what" in the statement, "the last day". There is only the last day. This is literally the clearest scripture regarding the chronology of the end times, so any other scripture that seems contradictory must be read in light of this, not the other way around.

Furthermore, Daniel was also told that he would rise "at the end of days".

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

By your assertion Daniel would rise before the thousand years, which is literally not the end of days and therefore at odds with this verse. Despite the relative ease with which we can put additional words after "the last day" in order to make it fit any preconceived ideas about the thousand years we may have, the same can not be done for the phrase used here in Daniel 12:13. "The end of days" can be understood no other way than that there are no more days after this, and no adjustment can change its meaning. Therefore, it must be understood that our resurrection happens literally at the end of days.

If his words don't align with your doctrine, then your doctrine is false. Not "my" doctrine: it is OTHER SCRIPTURES.

Fair enough.

What are you going to do about TWO resurrections in Revelation, separated by TIME?

The two resurrections are to be understood differently, not merely according to time, but according to type. There's more than one way to understand "they came to life". The first resurrection refers to those who've come to life in Jesus. The second resurrection is the only physical resurrection of the two, and it will include both the wicked and the righteous just as Acts 24:15 and John 5:28:29 clearly state.

 

[Oseas]

(The Lord's Day) Please define this with scripture?

Why do you want to know once your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth?

 

[Oseas]

WHO IS JESUS COMING AS THIEF' FOR?

Revelation 16:v.13-17

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon(who is the Beast like a lamb-(Revelation 13:v.11-18- a false messiah- a profound Torah connoisseur), and out of the mouth of the Beast (the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.1-10 - the Papacy), and out of the mouth of the FALSE PROPHET,(Revelation 13:v.11-18 - an accumulated function of the false messiah, profound Torah connoisseur)

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty. - The Lord's Day - the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium -

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. - Contraction of three words - Air (heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3 and Phil.3:v.20-21) + Magog + Eddom(vermelho)

GET READY
Get ready . Yeah, get ready for the battle

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[Oseas]

They say that Jesus takes His church away in the rapture, quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (FROM THE THIRD HEAVEN) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(MICHAEL-Dan.12:v.1-3 and there will be Great Tribulation and resurrection as is written) , and with the trump of God (sounded by Michael-Revelation 11:v,.15): and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

NOTE:
Very interesting. If the rapture takes place before the great tribulation, as is presumed, or speculated, and based in a dream of a prophetess, then it makes no sense to shorten the days for the sake of the chosen ones, don't you think?

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: (air is heaven. what heaven?Luke 20:v.35-36) and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (IN THE THIRD HEAVEN-KINGDOM OF GOD - Revelation 11:v.15 and so on)

Revelation 16:v.13-16

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon(who is the Beast like a lamb-(Revelation 13:v.11-18- a false messiah- a profound Torah connoisseur), and out of the mouth of the Beast (the Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.1-10 - the Papacy), and out of the mouth of the FALSE PROPHET,(Revelation 13:v.11-18 - an accumulated function of the false messiah, profound Torah connoisseur)

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty. - The Lord's Day - the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium -

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. - Contraction of three words - Air (heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3 and Phil.3:v.20-21) + Magog + Eddom(vermelho)

GET READY
Get ready . Yeah, get ready for the battle

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[iamlamad]

Why do you want to know once your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth?

And you say these mean words because you disagree with what I write? The truth is, it is your thinking that is off.

Just so you will know, "the Lord's day" is used ONCE in scripture and is referring to a SUNDAY, the day the Lord rose from the dead. It has not other meaning in scripture.

Any other use of this term would be adding to scripture.

 

[Oseas]

And you say these mean words because you disagree with what I write? The truth is, it is your thinking that is off.

What was said is that your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar.

Just so you will know, "the Lord's day" is used ONCE in scripture and is referring to a SUNDAY, the day the Lord rose from the dead. It has not other meaning in scripture.
Any other use of this term would be adding to scripture.

No, neither SUNDAY, nor SABBATH. Your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar.

 

[iamlamad]

On the contrary. The 7th trump is not called "the last trump". If it were then we would know for certain it was the last. As it is we know only for certain it is the 7th.


I disagree.


You're making things needlessly complicated. The last day is the last day of days.


There is no "what" in the statement, "the last day". There is only the last day. This is literally the clearest scripture regarding the chronology of the end times, so any other scripture that seems contradictory must be read in light of this, not the other way around.

Furthermore, Daniel was also told that he would rise "at the end of days".

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

By your assertion Daniel would rise before the thousand years, which is literally not the end of days and therefore at odds with this verse. Despite the relative ease with which we can put additional words after "the last day" in order to make it fit any preconceived ideas about the thousand years we may have, the same can not be done for the phrase used here in Daniel 12:13. "The end of days" can be understood no other way than that there are no more days after this, and no adjustment can change its meaning. Therefore, it must be understood that our resurrection happens literally at the end of days.


Fair enough.


. The first resurrection refers to those who've come to life in Jesus. The second resurrection is the only physical resurrection of the two, and it will include both the wicked and the righteous just as Acts 24:15 and John 5:28:29 clearly state.

The 7th trump is not called "the last trump". But many on these threads IMAGINE the 7th trump is Pauls "last trump" because the 7th is the last in Revelation. Do you then agree that they are mistaken?

As it is we know only for certain it is the 7th. Right, but it is also the last of THAT SERIES of trumpets. Even so, it is NOT Paul's "last trump."

Just reading Rev. 20 proves that all people will not be raised at the same time.

I disagree. Let's look...
Here is the first resurrection in different translations:
they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
They came to life and ruled with Christ for one thousand years.
They will come to life and rule with Christ for a thousand years.
They came back to life and ruled with Christ for 1000 years.

This is the first resurrection.
(Here is the second resurrection in different translations.)
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed.

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

The rest of the dead didn’t come to life until the thousand years were over.
No other dead people were raised to life until a thousand years later.
the rest of the dead did not live till the thousand years had been completed.

The rest of the dead did not come-to-life until the thousand years were finished.

(The others that were dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended.)

But the rest of the dead men shall not live again, until the thousand years be finished

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.)

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.)

Now as for the rest of the dead, they were not given life until the 1,000 years were completed.

Now, I will choose one from each group and put them together: I hope you will do the same. Choose which one you like from each group.

They came back to life and ruled with Christ for 1000 years.
This is the first resurrection. But the rest of the dead men shall not live again, until the thousand years be finished

One could spiritualize this and imagine it really does not say what is says. But WHY? One could symbolize it and say it is only a symbol for something else, but WHY? It makes perfect sense as written. No matter what translation, they really all say the same thing.

ONE group gets resurrected and God calls this the "first resurrection." It is for all that are righteous. Then the millennial reign takes place and the rest of the dead, that would be the damned that are in hell, remain in hell for the 1000 years, and then, after the 1000 years, they are raised.

The first resurrection refers to those who've come to life in Jesus. Not even this is true, if I understand your meaning. The "first" or primary resurrection is for ALL the righteous and will include all the saints from the OT. In fact, Jesus was the firstfruits or the very first human to receive a resurrection body under or in this "first" or most honorable resurrection.

The second resurrection is the only physical resurrection of the two Sorry, but this is nonsense. All who take part in the first or most honorable resurrection will be raised and changed to a resurrection body. It will be flesh and bone, but no blood.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

It was and still is a PHYSICAL body that the disciples TOUCHED.

The last day is the last day of days. Again I must disagree. There will be the last day of the 70th week. There will be another last day of the 1000 year reign of Christ. There will be another last day of the church age. We must qualify WHICH "last day" by using other passages on the same subject.

We don't form doctrine from an isolated verse as you are attempting to do. The verse in Daniel is ONE VERSE while in Revelation we have many verses about the same subject. And the all MUST agree.

Daniel 12:13
As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

If we study Revelation we learn (or we should learn) that the resurrection of the OT saints will be at the 7th vial. If you notice, there is no verse anywhere showing us the resurrection of the Old Testament saints. They are not listed in chapter 20 in so many words. But through study, we can tell that the OT saints will rise on the last day - the last 24 hour day - of the 70th week. We can pinpoint their resurrection because when God brings the "dust" together that once made up their bodies it will cause the world's worst earthquake. The ground will shake so violently that the mountains will shake down into the ground.

Where do we find such an earthquake? At the 7th vial. Next, the Two Witnesses are OT saints, so when they rise, all the OT saints rise. And again, with study, we see that they rise at the 7th vial also.

Just thinking about "the last day," in truth, the real and final "last day" would be when God destroys the old heaven and earth. And that is at the great, white throne judgment. That is when the "rest of the dead" are raised.

I understand, when you see a conflict between scriptures:

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Then:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

One verse seems to say that in one hour ALL in the tombs will be raised. Yet, the other verse tells us that one resurrection is over a thousand years AFTER the other.

So your remedy is to say that verse 5 does not really mean what it says. You spiritualize it or symbolize it.

Question: is this the ONLY WAY to solve this apparent dilemma?

 

[iamlamad]

What was said is that your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar.


No, neither SUNDAY, nor SABBATH. Your disguised SPIRIT has nothing to do with the Word of God, the Word of Truth. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar.

So all you have to do is prove my wrong using SCRIPTURE. Your words mean nothing. God's words means everything.

Show us all a scripture proving "the Lord's day" means something else than "sunday." Hopefully, you do know that "the Lord's day" is scripture.

 

[Oseas]

So all you have to do is prove my wrong using SCRIPTURE.

The source of your wrong is within you an dwell in you. Why do you want mix SCRIPTURE with your LIES? To make your lies to seem truth, or to transform your ERROR as if was RIGHT? What will be your condition face the righteous Judgment of the LORD, the Judgment Seat of Christ? Get ready.

Your words mean nothing. God's words means everything.

And your words? What do they mean? Your words or rather the words of your spirit, and the words of all those who are like you, they mean DEATH, according the warning the Word of God, saying: "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips-Romans 3:v.13. YOU ARE A KILLER OF SOULS.

My testimony have been always this: What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God. "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word-the Word made flesh-, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are One"-1John 5:v.7

Because there are many readers in this site, it is necessary to highlight that the battle here is not against the Holy Spirit, neither against flesh and blood, but against the spirit of darkness, and against spiritual wickedness in high places, in heavenly places or celestial environments.

Show us all a scripture proving "the Lord's day" means something else than "sunday." Hopefully, you do know that "the Lord's day" is scripture.

Who are you, rather, from whom have you learned or yet who is the spirit within you to determine the Lord's Day at a SUNDAY? Who invented this false interpretation, and theaches such LIE to the people, deceiving my brothers in Christ? As all can see, you are leaded and guided by the spirit of darkness which blinded you unfortunately.

1Thessalonians 5:v.1-2
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

And you preach as if the only Day the thief may come is at a SUNDAY? Get down to the abyss, spirit of darkness. You are a stumblingblock in the path of my brothers in Christ, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective.

What more do Scriptures say of the Lord's Day? What does the Spirit of prophecy say? The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy:

Amos 5:v.18-20
18 - Woe unto you that desire the Day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the Day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the Day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Joel 2v.1-3
1 - Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain(Aleluiaaaaa!): let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the Day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Here is a separate message mainly for the true brothers in Christ:Hear who has ears to hear what the
Spirit says to the Churches: The future glory of true Israel; the Purification of Jerusalem; Preparatory judgments; the Lord's Day;

Isaiah 2

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.

7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:

8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.

11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,

14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,

15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,

16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.

17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.

19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

 

[Oseas]

JOEL 3:V. 9 - 21

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.

12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.

 

[iamlamad]

Subject: "the Lord's day:" It was Sunday, the day the Lord rose.

↑

So all you have to do is prove my wrong using SCRIPTURE.

The source of your wrong is within you an dwell in you. Why do you want mix SCRIPTURE with your LIES? To make your lies to seem truth, or to transform your ERROR as if was RIGHT? What will be your condition face the righteous Judgment of the LORD, the Judgment Seat of Christ? Get ready.

Ah! I get it! What you are really saying is, you CAN'T prove me wrong by scripture, so instead, you attack the messenger.

I understand, you are the ONLY writer in this thread that is right - in your own mind. Got it.

 

[iamlamad]

JOEL 3:V. 9 - 21

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord.

12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim.

19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.

When you copy and paste scripture, you can't go wrong. It is when you add your opinion, which most on this thread disagrees with, that you are wrong.