The Bible does not say the Earth Is 7,000 Years Old

[BNR32FAN]

I posted those verses. It states he rested from all "his work" which he created and made. Again, I never said he didn't create anything in the 7 days but I also believe he "made" things in that period. Again, made can mean many different things including furnish, dress, finish and so on.

But your not saying that He rested from ALL His work, your saying that He rested from some of His work. Genesis 2:1 says that God completed the earth, the heavens, and all its hosts.

”Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

That’s everything, from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:26.

Then verse 2 says He created ALL His work BY the 7th day.

”By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The creation of the heavens and the earth are included with their hosts,, meaning the heavens, the earth, and everything in them, their inhabitants. Exactly the same thing that Exodus 20:11 says. You’re trying to separate Genesis 1:1 from the rest of the creation process but Genesis 2:1-2 includes Genesis 1:1 and all of the rest of the creation process together. And all of it was completed in 6 days.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I believe the flesh man was created during this present age and that the genealogy records follow that.

Ok was that 6,000 years ago or 300,000 years ago?

 

[Rev20]

I believe the flesh man was created during this present age and that the genealogy records follow that.

Population geneticists have determined that mutations in man are cumulatively deleterious which causes man's genome to become more and more brittle with each generation:

"[In summary,] the vast majority of mutations are deleterious. This is one of the most well-established principles of evolutionary genetics, supported by both molecular and quantitative-genetic data. This provides an explanation for many key genetic properties of natural and laboratory populations." [Keightley & Lynch, "Toward a Realistic Model of Mutations Affecting Fitness." Evolution, Vol.57, No.3, March, 2003, p.684]

If not for modern medicine we would have on average much shorter life spans.

"We find that the accumulation of new mildly deleterious mutations fundamentally alters the scaling of extinction time, causing the extinction of populations that would be deemed safe on the basis of demography alone." [Higgins & Lynch, "Metapopulation extinction caused by mutation accumulation." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Vol.98, No.5, Feb 27, 2001, p.2931]

The Bible foretold that, in a sense. When scientists plotted the ages listed in the Bible from Adam forward it formed a distinct decay curve.

 

[JulieB67]

But your not saying that He rested from ALL His work, your saying that He rested from some of His work. Genesis 2:1 says that God completed the earth, the heavens, and all its hosts.

He rested from "all his work that he created and made during the 6 days.
But he did not do all of his creating during that time period. The angels again, were not created during that time period. I believe they were created in verse one along with the earth.

Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made

Ok was that 6,000 years ago or 300,000 years ago?

I think Adam and Eve and their bloodline would most likely go back 6000 years or so.

ETA I think we're just going to keep going around and around. I believe that the creation of all things happened in verse 1 and then the earth became void and without form with verse 3 starting the replenishing of heavens/earth. You believe that verse 1 is starting the entire creation process -concluding in the 7 days.

I don't think either of us is going to change each other's minds.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He rested from "all his work that he created and made during the 6 days.
But he did not do all of his creating during that time period. The angels again, were not created during that time period. I believe they were created in verse one along with the earth.

Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made


I think Adam and Eve and their bloodline would most likely go back 6000 years or so.

ETA I think we're just going to keep going around and around. I believe that the creation of all things happened in verse 1 and then the earth became void and without form with verse 3 starting the replenishing of heavens/earth. You believe that verse 1 is starting the entire creation process -concluding in the 7 days.

I don't think either of us is going to change each other's minds.

if I may as why do you insist that Genesis 1:1 isn’t part of the 6 day creation process when we have two other passages that include the creation of the heavens and the earth in that 6 day period? The creation of the angels is irrelevant because we don’t know when they were created, only that they were created before Adam was 130 years old. So why separate Genesis 1:1 from the rest of the chapter?

 

[JulieB67]

if I may as why do you insist that Genesis 1:1 isn’t part of the 6 day creation process when we have two other passages that include the creation of the heavens and the earth in that 6 day period?

I've already answered that. Yes, he did create in the 6th day period. He created and made many things and he rested from all the work that he had done. Heaven can mean sky as well.

. So why separate Genesis 1:1 from the rest of the chapter?

I don't believe the angels are irrelevant. They were created therefore have a beginning so we can't state that he created everything in 7 days. We know that's not true. And I believe verse one is the actual beginning and the creation of everything brought forth by God's wisdom.

only that they were created before Adam was 130 years old

They were here when the foundation of this earth was laid. We see that in Job.

The Gen 2 and Exodus verses could very well mean he finished and furnished the heavens (sky) and earth from the previous state it was in. Unlike you I don't believe God started with a ruined ball of water. Peter states the heavens are of "old" and the earth was standing in and out of the water and that world that was "then" perished, This is what I think he's referring to. I don't believe this was Noah's flood that he's referring to in this. verse.

And you see 6000 years as old but I and many others don't. And I certainly don't think God does. When God's Word states something is "old", logic points that we are talking extremely old. Again, I don't believe that's 6000 years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've already answered that. Yes, he did create in the 6th day period. He created and made many things and he rested from all the work that he had done. Heaven can mean sky as well.




I don't believe the angels are irrelevant. They were created therefore have a beginning so we can't state that he created everything in 7 days. We know that's not true. And I believe verse one is the actual beginning and the creation of everything brought forth by God's wisdom.


They were here when the foundation of this earth was laid. We see that in Job.

The Gen 2 and Exodus verses could very well mean he finished and furnished the heavens (sky) and earth from the previous state it was in. Unlike you I don't believe God started with a ruined ball of water. Peter states the heavens are of "old" and the earth was standing in and out of the water and that world that was "then" perished, This is what I think he's referring to. I don't believe this was Noah's flood that he's referring to in this. verse.

And you see 6000 years as old but I and many others don't. And I certainly don't think God does. When God's Word states something is "old", logic points that we are talking extremely old. Again, I don't believe that's 6000 years.

Jesus speaks of a great tribulation that took place that has not taken place since the beginning of the world until now. This tribulation was the flood because He says that life was saved in this tribulation.

”For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What your saying is that a greater tribulation took place before the flood.

 

[JulieB67]

What your saying is that a greater tribulation took place before the flood.

Well, we differ on this as well. The disciples as for signs of the end of this world age and the sign of his coming. He then describes the tribulation which has nothing to do with Noah's flood. And then describes his coming after the tribulation of those days. Again, not Noah's flood. Although he uses Noah's flood to describe that it will be very much like that.

Satan and his angels will be kicked out onto earth. That will be the greatest tribulation of all time. Paul states one must have the gospel armor on to be be able to "stand in that evil day". Which coincides with Christ's warning that those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved. Souls are what's at stake. But that's another topic for another thread.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, we differ on this as well. The disciples as for signs of the end of this world age and the sign of his coming. He then describes the tribulation which has nothing to do with Noah's flood. And then describes his coming after the tribulation of those days. Again, not Noah's flood. Although he uses Noah's flood to describe that it will be very much like that.

Satan and his angels will be kicked out onto earth. That will be the greatest tribulation of all time. Paul states one must have the gospel armor on to be be able to "stand in that evil day". Which coincides with Christ's warning that those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved. Souls are what's at stake. But that's another topic for another thread.

”For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Unless those days had been cut short” what does “those days” refer to?

 

[Rev20]

”For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Unless those days had been cut short” what does “those days” refer to?

If we rely on the words of Christ (which I highly recommend) those events occurred during the generation of Christ and his disciples.

From the scripture and historical documents, I have concluded that the great tribulation was the Neronic persecution that began in 64 AD, two years before the beginning of the Jewish war with Rome.

 

[JulieB67]

Unless those days had been cut short” what does “those days” refer to?

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The days of the tribulation are shortened.

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Again, Satan and his will be kicked out. They will be playing savior to the world. But we see this warning from Christ, if they say he is here or there, "believe it not" Many believe that's the only thing they're waiting on, is for Christ to return but he returns after the tribulation of those days. That's why Christ states if someone comes claiming to be Christ, believe it not.

Sadly many will believe. That's why Paul states people will be thinking "peace and safety" and then the true Christ returns, bam destruction/God's wrath.

Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

This is prophesized in Revelation.

That's how powerful these signs and wonders will be. And most likely why some Christians fall away if they're not prepared.

Matthew 24:25 "Behold, I have told you before

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'Behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it not.

We have been given the warnings by Christ and Paul.

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Matthew 24:28 "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."


But we can see this has nothing to do with the flood. This about the tribulation of the latter times which happens before Christ's return. He's completely laid it out perfectly and gave warnings about deception.

I imagine the days are shorted because of verse 24.

Even Satan knows he has a short time-

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

 

[JulieB67]

If we rely on the words of Christ

The disciples as for signs to the end of world/age and the sign of his coming and he lays it all out.

I have concluded that the great tribulation was the Neronic persecution that began in 64 AD,

Again, the subject is the end of the world/age and the sign of his return. which would have nothing to do with 60AD

 

[Rev20]

The disciples as for signs to the end of world/age and the sign of his coming and he lays it all out.

Again, the subject is the end of the world/age and the sign of his return. which would have nothing to do with 60AD

Christ and his disciples said in many different ways that Christ would return in their generation. I am not qualified to second-guess them.

 

[JulieB67]

Christ and his disciples said in many different ways that Christ would return in their generation. I am not qualified to second-guess them.

Well, in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, Christ states that the generation that sees all those things come to pass (the signs he laid out) -that generation shall not pass until all things are fulfilled. And when you do see all of those things, lift your head up because your redemption draw near. So I'm not sure he was implying their generation or not. No one knows the day our hour but we are to watch for the signs that he gives.

 

[Rev20]

Well, in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, Christ states that the generation that sees all those things come to pass (the signs he laid out) -that generation shall not pass until all things are fulfilled. And when you do see all of those things, lift your head up because your redemption draw near. So I'm not sure he was implying their generation or not. No one knows the day our hour but we are to watch for the signs that he gives.

I am reasonably certain that the disciples and elect who were still alive saw the things he said they would see. He also said the temple would be destroyed before that generation passed away.

When Christ said the part about "no one knows the day or hour" he had yet to go to the Father. He also told his disciples that the Holy Ghost would teach them things to come. His words did not preclude the disciples from knowing the week, month, or year; and in many passages, they indicated that the time of his arrival would be soon, or even at hand. So, either they were false teachers, or Christ returned in their generation.

This verse confused me at first:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." -- Rev 1:7 KJV

Once I realized that translation to be misleading, then the puzzle fit better:

"Lo, he doth come with the clouds, and see him shall every eye, even those who did pierce him, and wail because of him shall all the tribes of the land. Yes! Amen!" -- Rev 1:7 YLT

The land without qualifiers almost always, if not always, means the land of Israel; so those who saw him and wailed were the tribes in the land of Israel. Two historical records allude to that event occurring about 66 AD, two years into the Neronic persecution.

In any case, I have found nothing in the scripture that might indicate his return would be after his generation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The days of the tribulation are shortened.

What Bible version are you using because He’s referring to “those days” in the past tense not future tense.

”Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

”And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭22‬ ‭ASV‬‬

”And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭22‬ ‭ESV‬‬

The rapture takes place before the great tribulations in the end times. So the length of time of the tribulations has no effect on whether or not people will be saved. People aren’t saved in the great tribulations in the end times because they were cut short, they’re saved because they were raptured to heaven before they took place. The days Jesus are referring to are the days of Noah where if the flood had continued all life would’ve perished and no one would’ve been saved.

 

[JulieB67]

n any case, I have found nothing in the scripture that might indicate his return would be after his generation

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began

66 AD is not the restitution of all things.

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

He will come and stand upon the mount of Olives where he will cleave a path -

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Two historical records allude to that event occurring about 66 AD, two years into the Neronic persecution.

It would be impossible for this to be the greatest tribulation of all time. We've had world wars worse than this.

Plus Paul is teaching about his return to non Jews and teaches the Esphesians that they need to have the gospel armor on to stand in that "evil day". They're not in Jerusalem. The event in 1st Thes 4 is the same event in Matthew 24.

And the biggest thing is Satan and his have not arrived yet. That's prophesized in Revelation 12. And they overcome him by the blood of the lamb and "the word of their testimony".

What Bible version are you using because He’s referring to “those days” in the past tense not future tense.

The disciples asks for signs to the end of the world/age and his return so anything he tells them would be future

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Future

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

 

[JulieB67]

The rapture takes place before the great tribulations in the end times.

Well, that's where we differ once again, I believe Christ in stating he comes back at the end of the tribulation of those days. So we might as well stop there because we are veering off.

I used to be pretrib (taught that early on) but don't find it to be biblical.

 

[Rev20]

Acts 3:21 "Whom the heaven must receive unto the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began

66 AD is not the restitution of all things.

That verse seems to me to be rather meaningless by itself since the Greek word ἀποκαταστάσεως is used but once in the NT and LXX; but it comes to life when interpreted in the context of Peter's address, beginning at verse 12. Peter is speaking to the Israelites to confirm the covenant God made with them (vs. 25), which is conditional on their repentance (vs. 19). Those who would not repent would be cut off (vs. 22-23); those who repented would be blessed (vs. 26). Peter's sense of urgency implies he was speaking of things that they, themselves, would be experiencing, not remote, future generations.

The root word, ἀποκαταστ, is found but three times in the NT, twice translated to "restore" (Matt 17:11, Heb 13:19.) Therefore my best guess is verses 19 and 21 refer to the restoration of the two houses into one in the heavenly kingdom, as foretold by the prophets and as expected by Paul:

"And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom" -- 2Tim 4:18 KJV

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

He will come and stand upon the mount of Olives where he will cleave a path -

That verse doesn't say that Christ would stand again on the mount of Olives, only that he would come from heaven as he went into heaven, e.g., in a cloud (Acts 1:9).

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

The theme of Zechariah 11-14 includes the betrayal of Judas (vs. 11:12-13), the crucifixion (vs. 12:10), the scattering of the disciples (vs. 13:7), the cutting off of the unrepentant (vs. 13:8), the refining fire to try the faithful (vs. 13:9), and the destruction of Jerusalem (vs. 14:1-2).

I will not pretend to understand the passages that the prophets did not understand, nor were explained by Christ or the Apostles. You can find many different interpretations of Zechariah 14:4-5 in the commentaries. My interpretation is that no one alive today has a clue what that passage means.

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

It would be impossible for this to be the greatest tribulation of all time. We've had world wars worse than this.

Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Future

The great tribulation occurred while some of Christ's disciples were still alive (Matthew 24:34.) Those who have not studied the history of those times are probably not aware of the suffering that the elect experienced under Nero beginning in 64 AD, and that the Jews suffered under the empire-wide persecution and murder by the Romans after the rebellion began in 66 AD.

Further, if any of the things mentioned in the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled during that generation, then all were fulfilled. For example, we are fresh out of disciples:

"Then shall they deliver you [disciples] up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake." -- Mat 24:9 KJV

And we are fresh out of Judaeas:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains" -- Luk 21:20-21 KJV

Two years into the Neronic persecution of Christians, they were delivered:

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." -- Mat 24:31 KJV

Plus Paul is teaching about his return to non Jews and teaches the Esphesians that they need to have the gospel armor on to stand in that "evil day". They're not in Jerusalem. The event in 1st Thes 4 is the same event in Matthew 24.

The persecution of Christians by Nero was empire-wide.

And the biggest thing is Satan and his have not arrived yet. That's prophesized in Revelation 12. And they overcome him by the blood of the lamb and "the word of their testimony".

The scripture states that Satan was kicked out of Heaven (Rev 12:9), and for a short time he made war with those who had the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:12, 17). After that short time, Satan was bound for "a thousand years", which is a long time, not one thousand years.

I believe that Satan was bound when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. I also believe that he has now been released from his prison and he and his armies are currently deceiving an unsuspecting world (Rev 20:7-8). His primary target is the Church (Rev 20:9). He will fail.

The disciples asks for signs to the end of the world/age and his return so anything he tells them would be future

Yes, everything he told his disciples was to occur in their future, but within their generation. Some of the signs that we can easily understand were the falling away of Christians (mentioned throughout the NT); the persecution of the disciples; Jerusalem being surrounded by armies; and even the Gospel being preached to the whole world, to all nations, and to every creature (Paul wrote that all three were fulfilled during his ministry).

 

[JulieB67]

The persecution of Christians by Nero was empire-wide.

The thing about the tribulation is that people will be thinking peace and safety before the day of the Lord (return of Christ) People will have bought into the fake peace that Satan/Antichrist brings. 70AD has nothing to do with that. Christ did not return. When he does return "all are changed" in an instant at the last trump. The destruction comes with God's wrath after the tribulation. But no one was thinking peace and safety in 70 AD.

Daniel 8:23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and under standing dark sentences, shall stand up."

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

Many people will believe he is the savior that's how he will deceive most of the world. Revelation states he has horns like a lamb (Christ) but spoke as a dragon (Satan) Paul states Satan is disguised as an angel light and that's going to be his MO. Only those that are prepared will see him for who he really is. That's also why Christ he stated he will come in an hour most are not expecting. Because many will have believed he's already returned. Peace and safety and then bam, destruction. People will be running for cover. That has not happened yet. No one has sat on the throne proclaiming to be God. No one has performed signs and miracles. We are talking real signs and wonders. And if people want to believe a lie God will let them.



In Matthew 24, the disciples asks for signs at the end of this world age. That will not happen until he returns. So anything he describes will be about that time period and that generation.

He will arrive with a trump and his angels will gather his elect. That did not happen in 70 AD.

There are only two advents.

Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin, unto salvation."

ETA, sorry OP for veering off the course of this thread....