Science conflicting with the Bible

Sethy94

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Everyone on this planet uses and trusts science in their everyday lives. The car you drive couldn't have been made without science, the medicine used to treat diseases was created using science, the physics involved in sending man to the moon could not have been discovered without science... The computer that you're staring at is the product of science. It's man's way of knowing the laws of nature and manipulating them the way we desire them to be. Biological science is used to help us study DNA, which in turn can explain the micro evolution we see today amongst dog breeds and artificially created foods and life.

Science IS the way that our universe works! If you trust so much in science, then why do you knock it down when it conflicts with something written in the 2,000 year old bible?

If you'd like me to explain my reasoning behind evolution or anything of such sort, please feel free to ask me...
 

pgardner31

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If the Bible is the Word of God, then science cannot help but substantiate its validity- there should be no actual conflict between the two. The paramount question, for both "evolutionists" and "Creationists," should be: "Do evolution and Genesis concur?" In other words, is Genesis (particularly Chapters One and Two) an account of the evolutionary process, as we understand it?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Everyone on this planet uses and trusts science in their everyday lives. The car you drive couldn't have been made without science, the medicine used to treat diseases was created using science, the physics involved in sending man to the moon could not have been discovered without science... The computer that you're staring at is the product of science. It's man's way of knowing the laws of nature and manipulating them the way we desire them to be. Biological science is used to help us study DNA, which in turn can explain the micro evolution we see today amongst dog breeds and artificially created foods and life.

Science IS the way that our universe works! If you trust so much in science, then why do you knock it down when it conflicts with something written in the 2,000 year old bible?

If you'd like me to explain my reasoning behind evolution or anything of such sort, please feel free to ask me...


Yet science does not conflict with the Bible. Not when both the Bible and science are interpreted correctly.

Romans 1:20 clearly states that a correct interpretation of science will prove God.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

So what invisible things binds the atom of which all things are made?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7752006/
 
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a post by Alan Smithee
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pgardner31

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1. Romans 1:20 is stating that because the universe was created in, to, thru, and subsists in Christ, it is both an objective and subjective portral not merely of His power- but also of His very person. Therefore, all who observe it have sufficient visual evidence to hold them accountable if they do not receive Him as their Savior (versus merely recognizing Him as their Creator as in religion).
2. Science and the Bible do not conflict. It is that the Bible is intended not to be a textbook rather, the autobiography of God. Therefore, the 6 forms of life fashioned in the 6 days of Genesis are not not in evolutionary order, but are intended to show the relationship of the Spirit & life in bringing forth life. It is a spiritual allegory which if taken literally conflicts chronologically with evolution.
3. Science will never prove the existence of God: this would abrogate faith and interfere with free will- which are essential to the obtaining of God's purpose.
For details: amessageforthehumanrace
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Are you referring to chemistry and atoms being bound together? One would think you would have learned about bonding in high school.
Valence bond theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I'm quite familiar with it, apparently you only read skin deep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_bond
A chemical bond is an attraction between atoms that allows the formation of chemical substances that contain two or more atoms. The bond is caused by the electrostatic force of attraction between opposite charges, either between electrons and nuclei, or as the result of a dipole attraction. The strength of chemical bonds varies considerably; there are "strong bonds" such as covalent or ionic bonds and "weak bonds" such as dipole–dipole interactions, the London dispersion force and hydrogen bonding.
It's all electrical, don't you know. Maybe you shouldn't have stopped at high school level teaching if you thought to argue something? just a thought. :doh:

Atomic Bonding
 
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Justatruthseeker

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1. Romans 1:20 is stating that because the universe was created in, to, thru, and subsists in Christ, it is both an objective and subjective portral not merely of His power- but also of His very person. Therefore, all who observe it have sufficient visual evidence to hold them accountable if they do not receive Him as their Savior (versus merely recognizing Him as their Creator as in religion).
2. Science and the Bible do not conflict. It is that the Bible is intended not to be a textbook rather, the autobiography of God. Therefore, the 6 forms of life fashioned in the 6 days of Genesis are not not in evolutionary order, but are intended to show the relationship of the Spirit & life in bringing forth life. It is a spiritual allegory which if taken literally conflicts chronologically with evolution.
3. Science will never prove the existence of God: this would abrogate faith and interfere with free will- which are essential to the obtaining of God's purpose.
For details: amessageforthehumanrace


Evolutionists got the basis of their theory of the order of life from the Bible. They have just misconstrued the current creation with past creations. Just as Christians misconstrue past creations with this creation.

In the oldest manuscripts there is the mark of a pause between the first and second verse. In Hebrew thought this is unknown time, and all was already created before the start of the second verse. The verb *was* in the second verse is also translates as *became* some twenty places in this chapter alone. Tohu wa bohu is found together nowhere in the Bible but three places (Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23), and always when used elsewhere point to a once flourishing condition that was then laid waste.

The Earth was not desolate and void, it *became* desolate and waste, and darkness covered the surface of the deep. Science may speculate a meteor or comet, either way the earth became desolate and waste and darkness did indeed cover the surface of the deep.

God then moved upon this cloud and said "let there be light." It is deserving of notice that the substantive verb is used here, and not either "created" or "made." It was a manifestation of what had already existed - "Let light be," or rather, "Light shall be." The word for light "ohr" is not the same word used in verse 14 signifying "lights" or "luminaries" - "ma-ohr", rather it signifies *heat*. The effect which followed is described as "day" which in Hebrew signifies *warmth*

Heat (energy) penetrated the depths of the clouds from God moving upon them and evaporation occurred which divided the waters above from the waters below and dry land appeared.

There is nothing mystical, nothing science does not agree with themselves, except that they ignore energy to this day. They proclaim E=mc^2 to the world, but ignore electrical forces in the universe, the only real source of energy they have ever observed.

As we know it's what binds the atom.

2 Corinthians 4:4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
Since Christ who is the image of God, as man is an image of God, we must all share something in common. With what image can you liken God, lest you worship an idol, a false image?

Exodus 20:4-6
You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Make an image of energy for me please. You couldn't even if you tried. Because this image we share is invisible, it is thought. Yet it is in all things and declared by all things. God is everywhere because the energy that infuses all things is everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy
In physics, energy is an indirectly observed quantity which comes in many forms, such as kinetic energy, potential energy, radiant energy, and many others; which are listed in this summary article. This is a major topic in science and technology and this article gives an overview of its major aspects, and provides links to the many specific articles about energy in its different forms and contexts.
The question "what is energy?" is difficult to answer in a simple, intuitive way, although energy can be rigorously defined in theoretical physics. In the words of Richard Feynman, "It is important to realize that in physics today, we have no knowledge what energy is. We do not have a picture that energy comes in little blobs of a definite amount."
So even though God is *in* everything, it is his invisible qualities that are to be understood by the things that are made, even his eternal *power* and Godhood. This is why you are not to make an image, because there is no possible image that you could create that would be God because only energy can be neither created or destroyed. Energy can transform into matter and matter can transform back into energy. Just as Angels took on the fleshly form of man to talk with Abraham and others.


Just as God who is energy with a loud voice thundered from heaven "This is my son, the beloved, of whom I have approved."

Plasma Speaker.wmv - YouTube

And from a burning bush that was never consumed came the word of God.

Bass guitar through QCW Tesla Coil - YouTube

And with a loud voice and the finger of God were tablets written.

"In the Hall of the Mountain King" - Played on Musical Tesla Coils - YouTube

Plasma Speaker / Singing Arc - Early Modulated Prototype - YouTube

Plasma Speaker / Tweeter - Completed Working Setup - YouTube

Just something because it's cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKfhgg6Flk
 
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TomZzyzx

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Sethy94 said:
Everyone on this planet uses and trusts science in their everyday lives. The car you drive couldn't have been made without science, the medicine used to treat diseases was created using science, the physics involved in sending man to the moon could not have been discovered without science... The computer that you're staring at is the product of science. It's man's way of knowing the laws of nature and manipulating them the way we desire them to be. Biological science is used to help us study DNA, which in turn can explain the micro evolution we see today amongst dog breeds and artificially created foods and life.

Science IS the way that our universe works! If you trust so much in science, then why do you knock it down when it conflicts with something written in the 2,000 year old bible?

If you'd like me to explain my reasoning behind evolution or anything of such sort, please feel free to ask me...

Christians don't have a single problem with micro evolution. So what's all the fuss about?
 
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TomZzyzx

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pgardner31 said:
If the Bible is the Word of God, then science cannot help but substantiate its validity- there should be no actual conflict between the two. The paramount question, for both "evolutionists" and "Creationists," should be: "Do evolution and Genesis concur?" In other words, is Genesis (particularly Chapters One and Two) an account of the evolutionary process, as we understand it?

I thought evolution had nothing to do with the beginning of the universe.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I thought evolution had nothing to do with the beginning of the universe.


We do noy know how God created anything, but we do know that life now follows kind after kind. No matter the variation of appearances possible within billions of lines of genetic code. Yet a dog is a dog is a dog regardless of how mankind has manipulated its genes.
 
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pgardner31

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'If I speak in the tongues of angels, and have all knowledge- yet do not have love- I am as a clanging cymbols' (Sound w/o God's substance) The universe was created by, in, thru, and unto Christ; and all things are upheld and subsist in Christ. Objective knowledge that does not lead to subjective experience (of Christ) is dead letter. Dear brothers, don't get hung up on the details (bonding at the atomic level, etc.) of blindly feeling parts of the elephant. "The same Lord is rich unto all who CALL <not merely think about> upon His name"
 
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Justatruthseeker

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'If I speak in the tongues of angels, and have all knowledge- yet do not have love- I am as a clanging cymbols' (Sound w/o God's substance) The universe was created by, in, thru, and unto Christ; and all things are upheld and subsist in Christ. Objective knowledge that does not lead to subjective experience (of Christ) is dead letter. Dear brothers, don't get hung up on the details (bonding at the atomic level, etc.) of blindly feeling parts of the elephant. "The same Lord is rich unto all who CALL <not merely think about> upon His name"

Yet search of the things made by God should not worry anyone if one truly believed God made everything. I fear science not at all because in the end it only leads back to him. A study of science merely leaves no excuse to deny him. But in the end it is belief, belief of a little child. A little child full of love and faith that will leap off a stair landing with no advance warning simply because they *know* daddy will catch them, for daddy too has love.
 
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pgardner31

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PRE&#64979;HISTORY

... Thus saith Jehovah, who stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him: (Zechariah 12:1)

I. THE "CREATION VERSUS EVOLUTION"
CONTROVERSY, OR: "MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING"

...The more famous subject of Darwin's uniformitarianism, usually termed "evolution," comes to the front. This is always a controversial and emotional subject, and is usually discussed in a quasi&#64979;scientific manner. 128

In dealing with the subject of this section, I will endeavor to avoid the above pitfall by being as logical and objective as possible. Let the reader be the judge of whether or not I succeed in doing so. I shall first discuss the merits and foibles of the "pro-evolution" argument and show where objectivity ended and human error began.

... The validity of evolution would not, in the slightest degree, diminish the evidential necessity of the existence of God, nor would it preclude the validity of divine creation.

... Evolutionists for nonscientific reasons have erroneously discarded the Genesis account and, equally erroneously, religionists have discarded evolution as being contradictory to a Genesis account.
Now it is time to logically examine the merits and foibles of the "pro-Creation" argument.

If the Bible is the Word of God, then science cannot help but substantiate its validity- there should be no actual conflict between the two. The paramount question, for both "evolutionists" and "Creationists," should be: "Do evolution and Genesis concur?" In other words, is Genesis (particularly Chapters One and Two) an account of the evolutionary process, as we understand it?

What can we deduce logically with regards to how life in general, and man in particular have gotten here? Remember that man has free will and that entails certain ramifications necessary to prevent undue influence of that free will.
If the six days of restoration were literal, then evidence of man would suddenly appear in the fossil record starting in 4004 B.C. Any supernatural creation per se would leave unmistakable evidence of its occurrence, thus interfering with free will. We should expect that God used a "natural," progressive means of forming man. What is time to God other than a necessary process? Time is not the barrier to Him that it is to us. Why should we not expect God to have used eons of time to bring about life as we know it? Why do some people insist that God brought about life instantaneously: would such a means really be any more miraculous?
Furthermore, in any supernatural manifestations to man of a magnitude that would leave archeologically verifiable traces, we should expect that God would likewise use a natural means of accomplishing such stupendous events&#64979; a means in accordance with the laws of the physical universe.
According to the ramifications of free will, then, whenever traces of God’s actions are of a nature or magnitude sufficient to leave verifiable traces, He will accomplish these actions in conformity to the laws of the physical universe. Thus, we should logically expect that evolution was used by God to form man and that catastrophism was used by God in His major supernatural dealings with man. Also, just as any skillful artist will personally put the final finishing touches on a great masterpiece, we should expect to find subtle traces of direct divine intervention.
In the three following subsections, I will put forward both Scriptural and scientific evidence substantiating that all three of these processes&#64979;evolution, catastrophism, and direct divine intervention&#64979; have indeed occurred.

For we are told that in the beginning God created (bara) the heaven and the earth; but the Scriptures never affirm that He did this in the six days. The work of those days was, as we shall presently see, quite a different thing from original creation: they were times of restoration, and the word asah is generally used in connection with them.
Now asah signifies to make, fashion, or prepare out of existing material; as, for instance, to build a ship, erect a house, or prepare a meal.139

Firstly, God formed the physical body of man from the dust (specifically clay) of the ground.

The evolution of life presents a similar problem, and may have followed the same kind of sequence, beginning with the existence of a suitable crystal, probably a very small one, relatively insoluble in water. A colloidal mineral would be ideal, and none is in fact more common, or better suited to the needs of a primitive gene, or more appropriate in a biblical sense, than clay.

Probably some lines of Neanderthal man died out, but it seems likely that a line in the Middle East went on directly to us, Homo sapiens. 162

This offspring was Adam; and he then received a spirit with which, by the exercise of his free will, he could choose to receive God Himself into this new part of him and thus express God. It was at this point in his evolution that man became a conscious being. But this incurs a problem: Adam was unique. If Adam mated with others of the pre&#64979;Adamic population, there would be a fifty percent chance that his offspring would be heterozygous and consequently would not have free will, while having a spirit. Thus all of Adam's immediate offspring must be homozygous for this trait, for him to truly be the "first man" of the Adamic race of man. Therefore, Adam must have a mate who is also homozygous for the same genetic trait. But Adam alone was homozygous for this trait.
How did God solve this problem?

And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helpmeet for him.... And Jehovah God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which Jehovah God had taken from the man, builded he into a woman and brought her unto the man. And the man said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. (Gen. 2:18, 21&#64979;23)

It is possible to clone a woman from a man. However, it is not possible to clone a man from a woman.

The sixty&#64979;four dollar question: Who was Cain's wife?
It is clear from the order of these verses that Cain's wife was not a member of his immediate family (which would be a direct violation of the Mosaic laws against incest) &#64979; something that would necessarily be the case if Adam and Eve were the literal, abracadabra style of first man and woman. Who, then, was she?
Cain's wife was one of the offspring of Adam's heterozygous contemporaries.

If Adam and Eve were in a literal sense the instant (bara) solitary couple who were the progenitors of the human race, then why didn't God save only Noah and his wife (especially since Noah was the only one of his generation whom God stated that He had found righteous) and start again with just one couple? The answer is that this would provide too small a genetic pool, just as Adam and Eve were not the first man and woman per se but the first man and woman as we their descendants today are: with free will and a human spirit.

To promote the literality of the six days of restoration makes equally as much sense as the Roman Catholic Church's defense of the earth as the center of the universe in the time of Copernicus. It is theologically incorrect to think that the 6 days were literal 24-hour days, since time elements (lights) were not assigned until the 4th day. The damage done by such misguided, and scripturally mistaken believers, in making Christians appear to be ignorant and illogical people, has been inestimable. What would cause some of the better scientific minds of the last century to illogically jump to conclusions in a frenzied effort to discredit the Bible in general and Genesis in particular? What would cause religious people to feel compelled to attack evolution as if they were defending the Faith? The answer to these questions is obvious if we rephrase them with the word who instead of what. Who has always endeavored to cause the human race to strain out a gnat and swallow a camel? None other than our most subtle enemy, Satan.
Who can say that God is not everywhere else in the universe where He has created habitable planets raising up intelligent life by the same processes and for the same Divine Purpose that He has done so here on Earth? This is why we have not heard from these other civilizations.
What about the incarnation of God as a man?

else must he (Christ) often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice himself. (Heb. 9:26)

How could this verse be true, if God is doing the same thing elsewhere in the universe? He only incarnated into the four&#64979;dimensional physical universe one time. Wouldn't the working out by God of His Divine Purpose elsewhere in the universe also require His incarnation elsewhere? Yes! Wouldn't this contradict the above verse? No!
According to the laws of our four&#64979;dimensional physical universe, God can incarnate on other worlds at other points in time and still have only incarnated from a spiritual universe into the physical universe only once. Besides, the reference in Hebrews 9:26 evidently applies only to our world, the Earth. But even if it is in reference to our physical universe, there is no contradiction. Thus, there is nothing scriptural to preclude the identical working out by God of His purpose through extraterrestrial life forms on other planets in the universe.
Incidentally, the reasons why the existence of life elsewhere in the universe is not directly mentioned in the Bible are: First, we do not need to know; second, such knowledge would violate free will since it would be direct indication of knowledge that could not be obtained by objective means.

AUTHOR’S NOTE:
If God is indeed consummating New Jerusalems elsewhere in the universe, then there will be evidence of the sudden emission of increased amounts of energy (seven-fold, mainly in the visible spectrum) emanating from a singular source. This could explain otherwise (scientifically speaking) inexplicable phenomena. Whether or not these phenomena are detectable with our current astronomical capabilities, I do not know.
Man, you search the physical universe in a vain quest for answers that cannot possibly fill your emptiness or satisfy your longing. These answers can only be found within you, and then only by turning back to your Creator and receiving Him. All else is truly vanity of vanities, temporal and finite.

FROM: amessageforthehumanrace.org
 
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pgardner31

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If the Bible is the Word of God, then science cannot help but substantiate its validity- there should be no actual conflict between the two. The paramount question, for both "evolutionists" and "Creationists," should be: "Do evolution and Genesis concur?" In other words, is Genesis (particularly Chapters One and Two) an account of the evolutionary process, as we understand it?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen. 1:1)

By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear. (Heb. 11:3)

Now, in the inspired description or what took place in the beginning, the heaven and earth are not said to have been molded, fashioned, or made out of material, but to have been created (bara). For, whatever may have been the original meaning of the word bara, it seems certain that in this and similar passages it is used for calling into being without the aid of preexisting material. 142

Or, he may declare, "it is all very well to say there was a huge explosion at what we call the beginning; but what about prior to that time?" In one confounding form or another, rest assured, the question is an often-repeated one.
Unfortunately, there is really no good answer to it....
In truth, in direct response to the question, all that can safely be said is that after the beginning things were different from what they were before. That's the best we can do; we will just have to leave it at that.143

As we have seen, the Scriptural account that God created the heavens out of nothing&#64979; that at a certain point time and space began whereas they had previously not existed- has been substantiated by the "big bang" theory, which has been verified by concrete, scientific evidence.

amessageforthehumanrace
 
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pgardner31

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"The words (rema, NOT logos) that I speak to you are spirit and life." "Set the mind on the spirit". "Till Christ be formed in you". "Until we all arrive at a full-grown man". I went to Pember's Earth's Earliest Ages. It seems to be fairly accurate in revealed truth, except that he attempted to use the 'interval' to justify the 6 days as being literal 24-hour days, which is scripturally incorrect.
Dear brother, may your subjective experiences of the living, present Christ, who as the Spirit is mingled with your spirit, equal your detailed knowledge of the letter of the word. The Jews (scribes) knew the letter and immediately responded to the seeking magi with Micah 5:2 concerning the Lord's birth. But they never bothered to go 11 miles to Bethlehem to see the living Messiah. We must be led by our understanding to "love His appearing" and to "behold Him with unveiled <by concepts> face" in order to reflect Him. No amount of zeal or knowledge can transform us- only looking away unto Jesus so that He can infuse us causes us to grow spiritually.
THE BIBLE BEING A BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE TO BRING DEATH OR A BOOK OF LIFE TO GIVE LIFE
Many people have been reading and studying the word for years, but I am not speaking about the old way of taking the word. What I am speaking is a new way that the brothers and sisters among us have been helped to realize. Some of us, though, may not know it very well, or we may know it partly but not in an adequate way. I would like to make this clear to you so that we can be brought into the proper way to apply the word of the Lord daily. In the garden of Eden there were two trees, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Without the revelation of the Scriptures we could never realize that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is something negative, bringing death to us. However, the Bible tells us clearly that this tree brings death. This is confirmed by 2 Corinthians 3:6, which says that the letter kills. The letter here is mere knowledge, the knowledge in letters. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. When we take the tree of life, we have life, but when we touch the tree of knowledge, we find death. The one Bible can be two kinds of books to us, a book of knowledge or a book of life. If it is a book of knowledge to us, it will kill us; it will bring death.
How can this book be a book of knowledge, and how can it be a book of life? I will tell you the secret. If we take this book merely by exercising our mentality to read, study, memorize, and keep it in our mind, it is one hundred percent a book of knowledge to us. But there is another way to contact this book and apply it. It is not only to exercise our mind but even more to exercise our spirit. Of course, we have to read it. We have to use our eyes, that is, our body. When we exercise our eyes as members of our body to re ad the word, spontaneously the mind of the soul understands it. However, this is not all. After this, we have to exercise our spirit. When we exercise our spirit to contact the word and apply it, the Bible becomes a book of life. Whether this Bible is a book of knowledge or a book of life to us depends on whether we exercise our spirit or our minds to contact it. If we exercise only our minds, this book becomes a book of knowledge. Then it will not help us; on the contrary it will kill us. However, if we exercise our spirit to contact the Bible, spontaneously it will be a book of life to constantly nourish us.
John 5:39 and 40 says, "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that testify concerning Me. Yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." The Jews, especially the scribes and Pharisees, spent much time to research the scriptures. However, they would not come to the Lord Jesus. This means that they contacted only the written word by exercising their mind to understand it; they would not exercise their spirit to come to contact the Lord. Therefore the Scriptures became a book of knowledge to kill them. The Jewish scribes and Pharisees knew the Scriptures, but they were killed by the Scriptures. They did not have life to constantly nourish them because they were using the wrong organ. They used only their mentality without exercising their spirit.
Let us apply this principle. Whenever we come to read the word, we must first realize that the Bible must be a book of life, not a book knowledge. It must not be knowledge, but spiritual food. Second, when we come to read the Bible we should not have the intention to get mere knowledge. Rather, we must have the intention to get some spiritual food. Yes, the Bible is written and printed in black and white. Yet we must realize that it is not an ordinary writing; it is something breathed out of God Himself. It is the breath of God as the Spirit to be food to us. Therefore we come to the Bible not with the intention to gain some knowledge but with the desire to be fed. We should not say that we already know these things. We may know them, but we may not practice them. We must thoroughly, clearly realize that the Bible is food to us rather than knowledge, so we come to it not for knowledge but to be fed.
Maranatha! The bridegroom is coming, for His bride. (not for the woman Babylon)
 
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