Laodicean60

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Rom 1:20 NKJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Sorry if it's in the wrong place in this forum.

I used to understand this verse as me knowing God's creation. Mankind is the only one that can think. Science says we all vibrate at different frequencies including nature. Some say that's how prayer works. Then when I read the underlined above it doesn't mean just me but nature knows the Creator or all things made by God.

Am I in left field?
 
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AlexB23

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Rom 1:20 NKJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Sorry if it's in the wrong place in this forum.

I used to understand this verse as me knowing God's creation. Mankind is the only one that can think. Science says we all vibrate at different frequencies including nature. Some say that's how prayer works. Then when I read the underlined above it doesn't mean just me but nature knows the Creator or all things made by God.

Am I in left field?
Well, the De Broglie wavelength is a scientific theory that states objects can both be waves and matter: https://spark.iop.org/de-broglie-wavelength

While I can not connect quantum physics to prayer, there are a lot of things in science that we do not understand fully. Prayer is more spiritual compared to scientific, so we will probably never unlock the mystery of prayer.
 
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Laodicean60

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Well, the De Broglie wavelength is a scientific theory that states objects can both be waves and matter: https://spark.iop.org/de-broglie-wavelength
Nice info and the math is above my pay grade Thx. For me, it's interesting how it relates to the human body. Now I understand the old saying, "That dude gives me bad vibes"

"You are a living energy field. Your body is composed of energy-producing particles, each of which is in constant motion. So, like everything and everyone else in the universe, you are vibrating and creating energy.
The field of vibrational medicine, sometimes called energy medicineTrusted Source, seeks to use the vibrational energy generated by and around your body to optimize your health.
To many people, the concept of energy fields in the body may sound more spiritual than medicinal.
More research must be done to understand how electrical and magnetic energy in the body stimulate chemical processes. But there’s growing evidence that these energies can be used to influence your health outcomes."

Added link: What Is Vibrational Energy? Definition, Benefits & More
 
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AlexB23

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Nice info and the math is above my pay grade Thx. For me, it's interesting how it relates to the human body. Now I understand the old saying, "That dude gives me bad vibes"

"You are a living energy field. Your body is composed of energy-producing particles, each of which is in constant motion. So, like everything and everyone else in the universe, you are vibrating and creating energy.
The field of vibrational medicine, sometimes called energy medicineTrusted Source, seeks to use the vibrational energy generated by and around your body to optimize your health.
To many people, the concept of energy fields in the body may sound more spiritual than medicinal.
More research must be done to understand how electrical and magnetic energy in the body stimulate chemical processes. But there’s growing evidence that these energies can be used to influence your health outcomes."
Actually, no one knows if quantum physics has an impact on the body as of 2024, so we probably can not jump to conclusions. Vibrational medicine sounds like quack to me.
 
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Laodicean60

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Actually, no one knows if quantum physics has an impact on the body as of 2024, so we probably can not jump to conclusions. Vibrational medicine sounds like quack to me.
It will always be a quack if you don't research but I have always been curious about health and the body. Quantum physics is a trip and it is interesting to listen to. Look, I came from the caveman days to where doctors used picks in my ears and today they put tubes in my grandbabies ears. I think AI will accelerate science advances also.
 
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Rose_bud

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Rom 1:20 NKJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Sorry if it's in the wrong place in this forum.

I used to understand this verse as me knowing God's creation. Mankind is the only one that can think. Science says we all vibrate at different frequencies including nature. Some say that's how prayer works. Then when I read the underlined above it doesn't mean just me but nature knows the Creator or all things made by God.

Am I in left field?
Hi there

I believe the scripture relays that everyone has a general revelation of God, as creation itself is a witness that God exists.
Psalm 19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. Without speech or language, without a sound to be heard, their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.
 
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AlexB23

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It will always be a quack if you don't research but I have always been curious about health and the body. Quantum physics is a trip and it is interesting to listen to. Look, I came from the caveman days to where doctors used picks in my ears and today they put tubes in my grandbabies ears. I think AI will accelerate science advances also.
Yeah, AI will accelerate science, heck I use AI to summarize the articles in the News & Current events subforum, as some people only read the headline and make statements not backed up by the actual article. But, be careful that you stay away from new-age teachings.
 
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Laodicean60

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Yeah, AI will accelerate science, heck I use AI to summarize the articles in the News & Current events subforum, as some people only read the headline and make statements not backed up by the actual article. But, be careful that you stay away from new-age teachings.
I've noticed that and you are right, I sometimes make the mistake of jumping to conclusions by reading a sensationalized title. You kids are smart but don't pre-judge the wisdom of your parents. I don't have a clue how to program it to do something. I could learn but I'm kinda lazy and if I was smart I'd have it generate stock picks or high percentage analysis.
 
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AlexB23

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I've noticed that and you are right, I sometimes make the mistake of jumping to conclusions by reading a sensationalized title. You kids are smart but don't pre-judge the wisdom of your parents. I don't have a clue how to program it to do something. I could learn but I'm kinda lazy and if I was smart I'd have it generate stock picks or high percentage analysis.
Thank you. :) I use the AI to help find relevant Bible verses to a topic, and then I cross check the verses with the Bible. The private, open-source AI on my computer does not have access to real-time data, so it would not work well for stocks, but I do not invest in stocks myself. AI nowadays is also bad at math, as the AI is a Large Language Model (LLM).
 
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Qubit

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Rom 1:20 NKJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Sorry if it's in the wrong place in this forum.

I used to understand this verse as me knowing God's creation. Mankind is the only one that can think. Science says we all vibrate at different frequencies including nature. Some say that's how prayer works. Then when I read the underlined above it doesn't mean just me but nature knows the Creator or all things made by God.

Am I in left field?

The 'invisible things of God' is the Logos (i.e., the Word of God).

What the verse is teaching is that behind every particle of matter in the universe, there is something manifesting it behind the scenes that is invisible to us. In other words, the Word of God manifests reality in a similar manner as to how a software program manifests a visual image on a computer screen (like a Simulation).

We see this being described here...

Hebrews 11:3
"Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."


Romans 1:20 goes even further by letting us know that the 'things that are made' is what the KJV calls the 'Godhead'. If we view the Godhead as a Trinity, then the things that are made are made of Atoms because Atoms have three components to them...
  • Neutron
  • Proton
  • Electron
The 'Eternal Power' is the place where the Logos exists that we will never get to see...

1 Timothy 6:16
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."


It is that Eternal Power and Word that created our universe.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Rom 1:20 NKJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Sorry if it's in the wrong place in this forum.

I used to understand this verse as me knowing God's creation. Mankind is the only one that can think. Science says we all vibrate at different frequencies including nature. Some say that's how prayer works. Then when I read the underlined above it doesn't mean just me but nature knows the Creator or all things made by God.

Am I in left field?

This passage needs to be read in the larger context of Romans 1, (which also needs to be read in the larger context of the Epistle to the Romans itself).

Paul is saying that God's power is on display through creation, yet human beings did not worship God, instead they made idols.

Martin Luther, in his 1518 Heidelberg Disputation, makes note of this in the following way:

"That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the »invisible« things of God as though they were clearly »perceptible in those things which have actually happened« (Rom. 1:20; cf. 1 Cor 1:21-25).

This is apparent in the example of those who were »theologians« and still were called »fools« by the Apostle in Rom. 1:22. Furthermore, the invisible things of God are virtue, godliness, wisdom, justice, goodness, and so forth. The recognition of all these things does not make one worthy or wise.
" - Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, Thesis 22

Luther is actually drawing out a much deeper and nuanced subject here, but for my purpose here I simply want to draw attention to how Luther recognizes that Romans 1:20 is actually a way of telling us how we can't know God by His invisible qualities--i.e. His Glory.

The fallen man, beholding God's glory through created things, worships the creation rather than the Creator. Indeed the Glory of God is something that man, because of his sin, is deeply afraid of--we do not want to meet the real God, because it would destroy us, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" (Hebrews 10:31) for "our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:21). As Moses himself learned on the mountain, "No one can see Me and live" (Exodus 33:20).

So the natural way of man is always to flee from God, which is why St. Paul will write later in Romans, quoting the Psalms, "there is no one who seeks after God, not not one".

This is important in, because Paul in Romans 1 has given us his thesis statement for the entire epistle: "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Greek; by it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, so that just as it is written, 'The just shall walk by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17). Paul, then, addresses how though in His invisible glory and power, on full display throughout creation, did not lead men to know, acknowledge, and worship Him--but instead fashioned idols for themselves. And the ways of the Gentiles are deplorable. Paul does this, not to say "eww Greek people are gross", but because as we see in Romans 2, "You who judge do the same things". Here Paul is bringing both Gentiles and Jews together on the same footing, so by the time we get to Romans 3 we see him say, "All have sinned and fallen short". Being Jewish does not make one better than being a Gentile; both those who never received God's Covenant Law and those who did receive God's Covenant Law are equally guilty, are sinners, and are found to be unrighteous: the one who received God's Covenant Law is condemned for knowing the Law and not keeping it; the one who did not is condemned because they do what is wrong even according to their own conscience. Right is right, wrong is wrong; and all are found guilty under God's Law, and there is nothing anyone can do to justify themselves before God.

The only way a person can be justified before God is by God's free and abundant kindness, His grace, through Jesus Christ who suffered and died for the sins of the whole world, and through faith--for both Jew and Gentile--the sinner shall be reckoned righteous before God even as Abraham believed and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. And all, therefore, who have faith in the Messiah shall be children of Abraham, and are full heirs of the promises of God, which are found exclusively in the Messiah, in Jesus.

The only way I can know God, be God's child, to be able to call Him Father is to meet God through His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the Jesus Christ who suffered and who died and who rose again. I can never know God, I can never be right with God, apart from Jesus Christ and the grace freely given in Him, which is mine through faith. Faith alone can receive the things of God, faith alone can meet God when He comes and gives Himself away in the Person of His only-begotten Son, the Crucified and Risen Lord Jesus Christ. And this Gospel, this Good News, means God, in Jesus, reconciling me--and here I am saved, here I am God's child, here I am safe with Jesus who defeated sin, death, hell, and the devil.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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