PUC church..........What is it?

[bleechers]

You must have a different definition of malign than most people.

Ummm, the point to that post was an answer in a Baptist forum to a Baptist question anout "bringing people to Christ." Read it in context.

Now, from your logo there, I assume that you are not a RC, just a schismatic. I posted what their Council of Trent had to say about my faith... in the context of the question I was asked and in the context of Baptist soteriology in this Baptist room for Baptists, that statement is quite valid. What if I had said that "Hinduism" was deceiving millions of souls? Would that be "maligning" Hindus in the context of a Baptist room? Or would it show my desire to see Hindus brought to Christ by the true gospel?

What to you is maligning, is to me loving (in the context in which that was written). I was accused of not wanting to bring anyone to Christ. I objected and said the whole point, as a Baptist, was to inspire Baptists to preach the gospel Baptists espouse to people who reject Baptist soteriology.

Did I mention this is a forum for Baptists?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Bleech..seems like you desire to have a debate with the Catholics. I would suggest that you wander over to the OBOB and debate with THEM over the merits of their Church doctrine. It has gotten to the point, where one is beginning to see more Catholics in this thread than Baptists (not that we don't like the Catholics or anything. However, this is a Baptist forum...not an attack against Catholicism forum.

Thank you. bleech might learn something too. . .


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

It's a generic "you". If she claims to be a RC, she can't make up her own version. Her church teaches this a codified and necessary doctrines. The Catechism is the official teachings of the RCC and it is what defines RCism, not personal opinion.

If she denies these doctrines then she's not really C. She might say she is, but not according to her church. I have a suspicion she accepts these dogmas.

Bleech, where does it say that anyone is required to pray to Mary?


Peace in Him!

 

[Dark_Lite]

Now, from your logo there, I assume that you are not a RC, just a schismatic.

Or he just might be an Orthodox Christian. They're common in those exotic Russia lands and such. They call each other "comrade" instead of "brother" or "sister."

/me nods its all true!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Attacks?

How come her post isn't called an "attack"?

The RCC is one that tells is the one that tells her that she cannot understand the scriptures, how is it an attack to point to her own church's doctrines! I'm trying to help her be a good Catholic!

Bleech, are you aware that there are very few passages in the bible that the Church has made a stand on how they have to be interpreted?


I am not the one attacking another's doctrines . .

I'm just pointing out their official doctrines for Baptists to consider. How is that an attack?

How come their several-people-wide assault on me isn't characterized as "attacks"?

How is pointing out misrepresentations of our faith an attack?

Heck, I've been hoping this thread would be frozen by now! I seem to be essentially all alone here in defending the Baptist salvation theology against the doctrines of Rome. I've had my character, my motives, my intergrity questioned repeatedly, yet nobody has warned my detractors (RCs in a BAPTIST room) to stop the "attacks".

Jiminy Crickets!!

Where have you at all defended the Baptis salvation theology? To defend something means someone has attacked it . . I haven't seen any non- baptists attacking Baptis salvation theology . . all I see is you attacking the Catholic faith . . what gives here?

Or are you asserting that the mere existance of the Catholic Church is itself an attack on Baptist salvation theology? This sounds a little paranoid, so this must not be what you are saying, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how you can claim you are defedning against something that hasn't even happened here is this thread . .





Peace in Him!

 

[Oblio]

Ummm, the point to that post was an answer in a Baptist forum to a Baptist question anout "bringing people to Christ." Read it in context.

There is no allowance for maligning 'in context', in this forum or any other. Being in your 'home' forum (if that indeed is true) is NOT license to slander you brothers in Christ or their faith.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Now, from your logo there, I assume that you are not a RC, just a schismatic.

Or he just might be an Orthodox Christian. They're common in those exotic Russia lands and such. They call each other "comrade" instead of "brother" or "sister."

* Dark_Lite nods its all true!

DL, that's a Methodist faith icon, isn't it?

 

[bleechers]

Because son (not Son BTW) of David is refering to the Patriarchial lineage and not paternity.

lineage: human

no lineage: God

You still have not provided any independent writings on RC Mariology or specifics on your previous Church membership ....

I quoted from the RC 1994 Universal Catechism and from the Rosary.

I was born and baptized in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia under the auspices of John Cardinal Krol. I received communion, absolution and confirmation (by Bishop Graham, AD of Phila.). Educated in Parochial school and CCD classes.

Served as an acolyte in the Diocese of Charlotte.

Elected to Parish Council and appointed Youth Spiritual Director. Asked to teach Confirmation Class in the Diocese of Raleigh and was an invited speaker at Youth conferences and retreats in the Diocese of Charlotte.

Taught high school level Religious Education classes in the Diocese of Charlotte. Made a pilgrimage to Vatican City in 1987. Served as college apologist for debates on salvation at a state University.

Now I know what's coming... I'm wasn't really Catholic enough...

 

[thereselittleflower]

I can appreciate this, but you're not an ex-JW. I am an ex-RC teacher and apologist. I know that a RC cannot just pick and choose what his church teaches. In this case, the doctrines of Mary's attributes of deity are central to their salvation doctrines (she is "the cause of salvation," etc.).

I know what you are saying, though. I did three years as an open-air campus evangelist and your method does work. In this case, however, if they want to deny a doctrine of Rome, then I cannot accept them as fully "Catholic" (by their own church's definition).

bleech, please start a thread in GT so we can engage in a good old apoligetic discussion, since you are an ex-Cathlic apologist, it should be quite interesting and informative.


Peace in Him!

 

[Dark_Lite]

DL, that's a Methodist faith icon, isn't it?

Verily. The one I have that is.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I can appreciate this, but you're not an ex-JW. I am an ex-RC teacher and apologist. I know that a RC cannot just pick and choose what his church teaches. In this case, the doctrines of Mary's attributes of deity are central to their salvation doctrines (she is "the cause of salvation," etc.).

I know what you are saying, though. I did three years as an open-air campus evangelist and your method does work. In this case, however, if they want to deny a doctrine of Rome, then I cannot accept them as fully "Catholic" (by their own church's definition).

By the way, just to make things clear. . I have not denied any doctrine of rome .. just your mis representations of those doctrines.


Peace in Him!

 

[Crazy Liz]

Bleechers, why did you describe DL's Methodist icon as schismatic?

 

[Dark_Lite]

Bleechers, why did you describe DL's Methodist icon as schismatic?

He was talking about Oblio's Orthodox icon....

Not mine! O_O_O

 

[thereselittleflower]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of David?

Then why should you conclude that David is not God (by your reasoning)?

Is Jesus God?


Peace in Him!

 

[bleechers]

bleech, please start a thread in GT so we can engage in a good old apoligetic discussion, since you are an ex-Cathlic apologist, it should be quite interesting and informative.

You know, I've spent countless hours doing just that... then I was convicted by Paul's admonitions to avoid such things (my pride is what keeps me going). I have had to discern the difference between "seekers" and "disputers" (my definitions, I know, but useful to explain here).

Now, I try to keep to "the simplicity which is in Christ" (2 Cor 11) instead of arguing over the word "know" and what "know" really means... etc.

My point, in this Baptist room, is to note that Catholic (Orthodox, et al) soteriology is not compatible with Evangelical soteriology. That was my goal. In that, I find myself having to "debate" several posts at the same time (and I'm a lousy typist).

Can we at least agree that RC soteriology is not compatible with salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ's atonement alone according to the scriptures alone? In fact, that Trent condemns such doctrines?

If I could get the RCs (et al) in the forum to agree to that, then the PUC has served its purpose. My pride would move me to defend every name in the geneology of Noah, but to what end? No one is interested in the finished work of Christ here. No one seeks fogiveness by Christ alone. Any wrangling I do with 2, 3, 4, or 5 of you is "vain babbling" and fruitless.

I know all your arguments (intimately), I made them for years and I now reject them for the knowledge of salvation. You know our arguments and you reject them for your church's dogma. What do we hope to accomplish anymore?

I'll answer a few more for clarification, but this thing is 17 pages longs already (and I've been essentially on my own for most of it).



Where's my bass...?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Who's twisting here, Liz? How 'bout getting on him for twisting? Huh?... Liz?

Jesus had no body as eternal God and Son. A body was prepared for Him. Mary gave birth to that Body, but the deity was, is, and forever shall be separate from his humanity. He is fully God and fully man.

And THAT is what Nestorius taught, and which the council of Ephesus condemend as heresy.

You referred to the hypostatic union earlier, wrongly ascribing it to Mary.

do you know what the hypostatic union is?


Peace in him!

 

[bleechers]

Is Jesus God?

Short answer:

I smell a trick... but Yes, He is eternal God from everlasting to everlasting.

He is also man. He was not a man until he was conceived by the Holy Spirit in a body the Father had prepared for Him.

He is still a man "of flesh and bone" for His blood was fully poured out for our atonement. He will forever bear the marks of Calvary, but His body is now glorified. He is the high priest who has made one sacrifice for sins forever. He will return as King.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Twisting?

Before Oblio posted I was going to ask you whether all Baptists are Nestorians, but thought better of it. I guess now you've forced me to ask it.

Hi Liz, surely Baptists are not Nestorians . . bleech may be, but I can't imagine that bleech's beliefs are the official teaching of the Baptist Church . . . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Crazy Liz]

Hi Liz, surely Baptists are not Nestorians . . bleech may be, but I can't imagine that bleech's beliefs are the official teaching of the Baptist Church . . . .


Peace in Him!

"official teaching of the Baptist Church..."

ROTFL!

 

[bleechers]

Nestorians, eh? Nice try.

I have clearly stated (as the Council of Ephesus stated for what it's worth) that Christ consisted of only one person with two natures, one human and one divine. This is the same charge always leveled by Rome.

Liz? Where are you?