PUC church..........What is it?

[GreenEyedLady]

Bleechers-
Here is your chance to explain what the PUC is. I am very confused!

Thanks In advance
GEL

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Bleechers-
Here is your chance to explain what the PUC is. I am very confused!

Thanks In advance
GEL

I think it is a surreptitious dig at the Catholic Church. I believe that Bleechers is a former Catholic and has some hard feelings about the Catholic faith.

 

[bleechers]

I think it is a surreptitious dig at the Catholic Church

A. Nowhere on the PUC page do I mention the Catholic Church.
B. What particular doctrines of the PUC do you find objectionable?
C. Are the doctrines of the PUC compatible with Evangelical Christianity?

The PUC was created for Evangelicals (I'm a Baptist, this is a Baptist room) to compare with the gospel we preach. If the PUC has objectionable doctrines I merely point to other faiths that have similar (identicle?) doctrines. If there is something in the doctrines of the Catholic Church that you find as a parallel, well that is for you to work out.

Hope this helps!!

 

[kayanne]

I'd been wondering about this too. What does PUC even stand for? (I mean the 3 letters, not what it stands for in principle). Where can I read more about this?

 

[KennySe]

Bleecher provided this website http://michaelscotto.com/articles/plymouth.html which is an introduction to the faith called The Plymouth Universal Church (PUC).

 

[kayanne]

Never mind....I found the link on another page. I was taking your signature seriously, though it did seem rather outrageous, and I have to assume others surfing here may also. Not the wisest way to make your point, imo.

 

[bleechers]

I was taking your signature seriously, though it did seem rather outrageous,

What's so outrageous? Do you have a problem with faiths that teach such doctrines?

and I have to assume others surfing here may also. Not the wisest way to make your point, imo.

Apparently not. You made my point by calling my signature "outrageous." Are you a "Plymouthist basher"? Your statement isn't very respectful.

There are lines to be drawn for the sake of the gospel. Would you want a PUC minister to come to your Baptist church (this is a Baptist room) to preach from your pulpit? If not, why not? What do you find objectionable?

Would like to form an alliance with the PUC? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[Miss Shelby]

bleechers,

Is the PUC Church a legitimate Church or is that website a parody?

Michelle

 

[Crazy Liz]

He already said in the other thread it is a name he made up to get around the forum rules against bashing other churches. Since it's not a real church, he can bash it all he wants, and indirectly bash the Roman Catholic Church, while claiming everything he says is perfectly innocent and consistent with the forum rules.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

I think Bleechers may have asperations of becoming the first Baptist Pope. You guys had better watch him.

 

[Miss Shelby]

He already said in the other thread it is a name he made up to get around the forum rules against bashing other churches. Since it's not a real church, he can bash it all he wants, and indirectly bash the Roman Catholic Church, while claiming everything he says is perfectly innocent and consistent with the forum rules.

Ahhh... thanks Liz. Clever isn't he?

Michelle

 

[Filia Mariae]

He already said in the other thread it is a name he made up to get around the forum rules against bashing other churches. Since it's not a real church, he can bash it all he wants, and indirectly bash the Roman Catholic Church, while claiming everything he says is perfectly innocent and consistent with the forum rules.

How sad that Christians have come to this point.

 

[jenptcfan]

How sad that Christians have come to this point.

I'll have to agree with you. The saddest part is that someone took a whole bunch of time to write page after page of stuff. And for what? It's not bringing anyone to Christ. It's not changing anyone's life. It's just tearing down other human beings.

 

[kayanne]

What's so outrageous? Do you have a problem with faiths that teach such doctrines?

Of course I have a problem with such doctrines. If I believed such doctrines, then I wouldn't attend my independent Bible church. But what my "outrageous" comment was directed at, was the fact that you would be posting here on a Baptist board with such statements outlined as your beliefs. I found it "outrageous" that a Baptist would believe such things---that was before I knew you were being sarcastic.

Apparently not. You made my point by calling my signature "outrageous." Are you a "Plymouthist basher"? Your statement isn't very respectful.

Why do you say "apparently not"? If I didn't have a problem with your signature, I wouldn't have called it outrageous. But again, my reaction was because you are supposedly Baptist, and your signature doesn't match your Baptist "label." That doesn't make me a "Plymouthist basher." There are many doctrines of many denominations that I happen to disagree with, but I don't bash those denominations. Praying for them is a much better response.

There are lines to be drawn for the sake of the gospel. Would you want a PUC minister to come to your Baptist church (this is a Baptist room) to preach from your pulpit? If not, why not? What do you find objectionable?

We would not have a preacher from "PUC," or from most real denom's for that matter. If a preacher's beliefs didn't line up with our church's doctrine, there's no way he'd be preaching in our church. Don't most churches function that way?

Would like to form an alliance with the PUC? If so, why? If not, why not?

No. Similar to my answer to previous question.

God's Word tells us to speak the truth in love. Your whole website is intentionally filled with untruths--a farce that you made up. I know that you're trying to get around forum rules by doing it, and I think understand the point that you're trying to make (now that I know you're not being serious)....but you certainly aren't speaking the truth in love. You're speaking lies in sarcasm.

 

[bleechers]

How sad that Christians have come to this point

I guess you've realized that the doctrines of the PUC are EXACT reflections of Roman Catholic doctrines (including the two below). If you have a problem with the doctrines then see to your own wounds.

Which PUC doctrines are not a reflection of codified RCC doctrines? Start with the two in my signature.

I'll have to agree with you. The saddest part is that someone took a whole bunch of time to write page after page of stuff. And for what? It's not bringing anyone to Christ. It's not changing anyone's life. It's just tearing down other human beings.

The page is aimed at Christians who REFUSE to bring people to Christ. The point is that there are Baptists and other Evangelicals who refuse to recognize the doctrines of Rome that are deceiving hundreds of millions. But I can't get a conversation started on BRINGING THEM TO CHRIST because most Evangelicals won't talk about Catholic doctrines... so I created a Church I ask them to look over the doctrines of the PUC and see if these doctrines are worth contending against... are they?

"Tearing down other human beings"? How? That page is filled with doctrines similar to doctrines that are taught by a church with 1 billion adherents. Does that not bother you? Is it not "tearing other human beings" to claim what is claimed in my signaure?? Worse yet, is it not "tearing down Christ's sacrifice on Calvary"? Does it not trouble you that a group would condemn the gospel with anathema yet accept Islam as a road to heaven?

This is a Baptist room. I don't go into the Catholic room and cause trouble. My explanation of the PUC is done by request. It has proved to be a phenomenally helpful tool to open the eyes of Baptists of the need to evangelize (i.e. bring them to Jesus) groups trapped in gospel-denying systems.

Of course I have a problem with such doctrines...

This is the point. I apologize to kayanne if she did not catch the irony, but her response is exactly what I should see. We wouldn't let a PUC minister in our pulpits or on our radio shows or to lead our Bible studies, but more and more churches and ministries are opening their doors to groups that teach similar or worse doctrines. Dobson calls the Pope "the greatest Christian leader in the world"!

God's Word tells us to speak the truth in love. Your whole website is intentionally filled with untruths--a farce that you made up.

In what way? Sure I made it up, but that is irrelevant. It's the doctrines that matter. If I put a disclaimer on it (which I didn't feel was necessary in the context of my whole site) would that appease you? I'd be glad to do so, but it wouldn't change anything.

Faith is not a "group" thing, it is an individual thing. If just one person held to the doctrines of the PUC we (Baptists, this is a Baptist room remember) would want to lead them to Christ. Just because another group has palaces, gold, and millions of followers doesn't make their doctrines any better. The individuals who hold to those doctrines NEED TO BE REACHED WITH THE TRUTH.

If my appraoch offends any Baptists here, then I am sorry. But if it reveals the necessity to lead people out of similar systems into the light of the glorious gospel, then praise God.

Very few people want to touch a ministry when its goal is to reach RCs with the gospel. Churches run for cover when the "C" word comes up. The PUC is a way to let them make a determination if certain doctrines are sound without them having to see the "C" word.

RCs always (and its been done on this board) accuse Christians of ignorance and ask Baptists to keep silent because they don't know what they're taling about... well I know what I'm talking about. I debated Christians in college as a RC campus apologist... we were not debating semantics, we were debating salvation.

My goal is ignite a fire for RC souls. If the PUC makes you investigate the doctrines of the RCC and troubles your spirit for the eternal fate of their souls, then I have succeeded. If you don't think the differences are worth a defense and instill a passion for souls, then I'm of no help to you. Perhaps even the PUC is OK with you. If that's the case, it is not me who you've denied, but Christ and His work on Calvary.

I hope somebody gets it...

 

[kayanne]

Does it not trouble you that a group would condemn the gospel with anathema yet accept Islam as a road to heaven?

Yes, that is troubling.

Dobson calls the Pope "the greatest Christian leader in the world"!

Could you document this?

Sure I made it up, but that is irrelevant. It's the doctrines that matter. If I put a disclaimer on it (which I didn't feel was necessary in the context of my whole site) would that appease you? I'd be glad to do so, but it wouldn't change anything.

I think that would add an element of honesty to it, and certainly clarity. There are certainly other "Christian" websites out there that I can't decide it they're serious or not--some groups are really far out there.

Very few people want to touch a ministry when its goal is to reach RCs with the gospel. Churches run for cover when the "C" word comes up.

Hmmm...that's not my experience, but maybe some churches are that way. Our church supports several missionaries who work in primarily "C" regions, ie Ireland, Brazil, Phillipines.

 

[bleechers]

I think that would add an element of honesty to it, and certainly clarity. There are certainly other "Christian" websites out there that I can't decide it they're serious or not--some groups are really far out there.

Agreed. For you, my dear lady, I will compose a disclaimer. But give me a few days to get it updated!

Hmmm...that's not my experience, but maybe some churches are that way. Our church supports several missionaries who work in primarily "C" regions, ie Ireland, Brazil, Phillipines.

Sure... way over there somewhere I just can't get as many people in the USA as interested as I did only 5 or 6 years ago.

It's a funny thing... for some reason when a Christian hears that I used to be a RC, they feel the need to tell me what respect that have for some Cs...? Odd. I always think "Didn't they just hear that I was saved OUT of the RCC?" It's very strange.

That's what got me started on the PUC. I started to use that and it was very well received. Most people chuckle as I describe the PUC (with me as Michael I, etc.), then I read from RC doctrines and the solemnity hits them.

Again, the appraoch is for Evangelicals (Baptists mostly). The RCs in the room make it difficult to use without expecting some reaction... but this is a Baptist room and I have not been in the RC room...

Thanks again for the feedback and the recommendation.

As for Dobson, I'll try to get it along with the reference. Good of you to ask!

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Bleechers............. I THINK YOUR BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEL

 

[Cary.Melvin]

bleechers,

I having a problem with the first line of the Plymouth Universal Church's manifesto which reads as follows:

After years of study, God has revealed the true successor to the Apostle Paul. Listed below are some of the distinctive doctrines of the PUC that Paul’s successor has spoken as God’s man on earth.

I have a few questions.

1."After years of study" by whom?

2. It also states that "God has revealed the true successor to the Apostle Paul." Exactly how was this revealed? by whom? and why would a successor have to be "revealed" in the first place?

3. And also it says "Paul’s successor has spoken as God’s man on earth." Technicaly speaking Paul was not one of the original 12 apostles that spent three years with Jesus. Sure he had a spectacular revelation, but other than that he still had to learn the Gospel second hand (at least). Why should I consider Paul authoritative?

Father bleechers please help me out.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Bleechers............. I THINK YOUR BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEL

I find it odd that you would say this, GEL. The simple fact that he had to circumvent the rules in order make his point proves that his plan was dishonest at it's inception. How can he expect people to take him seriously when he has to resort to trickery to make his point?

When I said that he was clever, I was being sarcastic.

Michelle