Profanity

[Hikarifuru]

http://www.sciencealert.com/people-who-curse-a-lot-have-better-vocabularies-than-those-who-don-t-study-finds

haha, supposedly people who cuss more are smarter

 

[Hikarifuru]

I would have expected you could appreciate the difference. First, in some circles many of those "milder" words are considered inappropriate. Second, in circles where they are commonly used, they lose their force and indeed people are no longer offended when they hear them. Hence the constant invention of new slang.

Regardless, different words carry different connotations. Maybe the profanities for sex are easiest to understand, where some words indicate a clinical discussion of the topic, others a romantic exchange, and yet others an aggressive and abusive act. For the words you suggested, again, some indicate clinical discussion, while others indicate contamination, defiling, or humiliation.

I would assume most who share in the human experience are familiar with those distinctions. [edit] And I should add that I would hope most are in favor of discouraging the negative activities associated with those words.

That's what I was saying... sounds are not moral or immoral, the words you use represent how you feel and what you're implying, the only moral aspect of your words is what they represent about you, the reason you use them, what you're communicating.

That's why the words are not good or bad, the reason you use them might make you good or bad. Most cuss words do not imply that you want to do something bad, but rather express that you've been hurt or angered by something, they are reactions.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I would have expected you could appreciate the difference. First, in some circles many of those "milder" words are considered inappropriate.

You're coitusing with me, aren't you? (TBBT reference.) The question isn't whether they are considered inappropriate, but why.

Second, in circles where they are commonly used, they lose their force and indeed people are no longer offended when they hear them. Hence the constant invention of new slang.

I'm aware of that. It doesn't explain why anyone should take offense by a particular sequence of sounds or letters. That people do isn't in question. But a reflective person might recognize the silliness of reacting to them.

Regardless, different words carry different connotations. Maybe the profanities for sex are easiest to understand, where some words indicate a clinical discussion of the topic, others a romantic exchange, and yet others an aggressive and abusive act. For the words you suggested, again, some indicate clinical discussion, while others indicate contamination, defiling, or humiliation.

I would assume most who share in the human experience are familiar with those distinctions. [edit] And I should add that I would hope most are in favor of discouraging the negative activities associated with those words.

I would suggest that most people don't associate the actual referents of these words with literalness. "I'm going to beat the 's' out of you" doesn't suggest to anyone a literal consequence. "I'm going to 'f' you up' doesn't suggest sex. In addition, when the f-bomb does mean sex, I tend to hear it as a consensual behavior.

Regardless of the connotations of a word, it is the speaker's intent that is potentially offensive and not the word itself. 'S' is just another word. I grew up with a Mennonite friend who referred to work boots as s-stompers. Nothing inherently offensive about it.

 

[Hikarifuru]

While it is true that there are sub-forums designated as "Christian Only", this forum in its entirety is called ChristianForums.com. As I understand it, it is meant to be an outreach, a place where those who are not Christian can come and explore the Christian faith, ask questions and enter into a respectful dialogue.

Unfortunately I get the feeling that many here are not interested in respectfully asking Christians what they believe about certain things, rather it seems that for some this is a game, a place to confront Christians and tear down their beliefs. At least this is what I personally have encountered on this site.

It makes no sense to tell a Christian to stay in the "Christian Only" section. If you don't want to encounter Christian viewpoints, why did you even search for and sign up to a Christian Forum? I'm sure there are plenty of secular forums where these same topics can be discussed.

The Christian faith is not a game for most of us here, it is everything to us. Speaking for myself personally, I am more than willing to discuss things with non-Christians, but what I am not interested in doing is playing games or being told that Christians should basically keep their beliefs to themselves and stay in certain sub-forums of a site that is meant to be a place where Christians can openly discuss their faith with those who honestly have concerns or questions.

I haven't gone and signed up for Atheist forums just to confront Atheists and insult their beliefs, I fail to see the point in doing such things. If someone has already made up their mind about the Christian faith and they have no desire to hear from Christians, then it makes no sense to search out a Christian forum. This is a Christian forum and so obviously there will be Christians posting here.

I think the games need to stop. That way we can all stay on topic and be respectful, and everyone will be able to share their thoughts and perspectives without being insulted.

No one was told to just simply stay in the Christian only area all the time. A contrary point of view was offered and the Christian got offended by this, then that Christian was told that if they are so easily offended they should stay in a place where such contrary opinions are not allowed.

Some Christians are kind considerate people who deserve respect and some are not. This post by you was a way of confronting atheists about their actions. There are already rules in place that prevent people from being flamed and attacked as well.

 

[Tinker Grey]

While it is true that there are sub-forums designated as "Christian Only", this forum in its entirety is called ChristianForums.com. As I understand it, it is meant to be an outreach, a place where those who are not Christian can come and explore the Christian faith, ask questions and enter into a respectful dialogue.

Unfortunately I get the feeling that many here are not interested in respectfully asking Christians what they believe about certain things, rather it seems that for some this is a game, a place to confront Christians and tear down their beliefs. At least this is what I personally have encountered on this site.

It makes no sense to tell a Christian to stay in the "Christian Only" section. If you don't want to encounter Christian viewpoints, why did you even search for and sign up to a Christian Forum? I'm sure there are plenty of secular forums where these same topics can be discussed.

The Christian faith is not a game for most of us here, it is everything to us. Speaking for myself personally, I am more than willing to discuss things with non-Christians, but what I am not interested in doing is playing games or being told that Christians should basically keep their beliefs to themselves and stay in certain sub-forums of a site that is meant to be a place where Christians can openly discuss their faith with those who honestly have concerns or questions.

I haven't gone and signed up for Atheist forums just to confront Atheists and insult their beliefs, I fail to see the point in doing such things. If someone has already made up their mind about the Christian faith and they have no desire to hear from Christians, then it makes no sense to search out a Christian forum. This is a Christian forum and so obviously there will be Christians posting here.

I think the games need to stop. That way we can all stay on topic and be respectful, and everyone will be able to share their thoughts and perspectives without being insulted.

I find your entire post ironic. It seemed to me that John was the one uninterested in taking part in the very nature of the philosophy sub-forum. If one wants to simply be patted on the back for their beliefs, they should go preach to the choir. Having an intelligent discussion is what most of us want that frequent here. I don't consider it a game. The discussion of why society is the way it is--in this case, on the topic of curse words--is fascinating and is a precursor to improving society.

If you take this seriously and it is "everything to [you]", then be prepared to give an answer (1 Peter 3:15).

Lastly, I didn't sign up to mock Christians. I was a Christian when I signed-up--14 years ago. I was a Christian for the first 6-years here. I see no reason to leave. Quite frankly, atheist message boards are boring.

 

[Oafman]

Yeah, the problem with atheist message boards is that we have almost nothing in common.

 

[Chesterton]

I understand what you meant, I don't see how it doesn't speak well of them. If they are educated accomplished professionals, would you actually look down on them for dropping an "F bomb" if something goes wrong?

Well think of it this way: our leaders in government are supposed to be good and honorable men, exemplary for the rest of us. (Ideally, at least they will put up the facade.) AFAIK, Donald Trump is the first candidate for office in American history that uses profanity in his public speaking. Is he a lowlife because he uses profanity? Perhaps not necessarily, but the profanity is an indication that he's a lowlife.

 

[amariselle]

I find your entire post ironic. It seemed to me that John was the one uninterested in taking part in the very nature of the philosophy sub-forum. If one wants to simply be patted on the back for their beliefs, they should go preach to the choir. Having an intelligent discussion is what most of us want that frequent here. I don't consider it a game. The discussion of why society is the way it is--in this case, on the topic of curse words--is fascinating and is a precursor to improving society.

If you take this seriously and it is "everything to [you]", then be prepared to give an answer (1 Peter 3:15).

Lastly, I didn't sign up to mock Christians. I was a Christian when I signed-up--14 years ago. I was a Christian for the first 6-years here. I see no reason to leave. Quite frankly, atheist message boards are boring.

I take it very seriously, and I am prepared to answer, to the best of my abilities of course, I am only human. The problem is whenever I give answers, use Scripture and talk about the words of Jesus, I am usually just accused of lying and my entire character and intelligence is called into question. (And I have seen it happen to many other Christians here as well) Which is why I said, I will not be playing these games.

I am sorry you find Atheist message boards to be boring, but that is no reason to basically tell another poster you disagree with to go elsewhere and stay there.

 

[amariselle]

Yeah, the problem with atheist message boards is that we have almost nothing in common.

How much do you feel you have in common with Christians?

Sometimes we need to be okay with the fact that we are not all the same, and we can still be respectful regardless.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm aware of that. It doesn't explain why anyone should take offense by a particular sequence of sounds or letters.

It does explain why they're offended. You're starting to appear intentionally obtuse by making this about the sound of the word. It's not the sound that's offensive, but the meaning of the word. Are you not offended that someone would promote the idea of sexual abuse, etc?

I realize many use profanity as filler. But what should we say of someone who doesn't use words in their proper context? Whether it's because they are ignorant of the word's true meaning or because they're not conversant enough to choose a better word, I can't think of any way it reflects well on them. It's analogous to a teenager who can't complete a sentence without using "like". I'm, like, so surprised, like, that you don't, like, get it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

And what's the meaning of 'S'? How does it differ from crap? Why should you be offended if someone says they've had a sh--ty day?

 

[Resha Caner]

And what's the meaning of 'S'? How does it differ from crap? Why should you be offended if someone says they've had a sh--ty day?

The word has been diluted, and using it in that sentence is an indication of such. If their day had truly been as bad as that word is meant to indicate, they wouldn't be around to casually relate their irritation to me.

If I know the person well enough (which is actually a pretty small circle for me), I tell them it's an inappropriate use of the word. More commonly, I reply with something like, "I'm sorry you had a bad day. What happened?" I've found that most times by repeatedly using that subtle means of suggesting an alternative word for the profanity, within a few sentences they drop its use. Further, if we ever speak again, they typically remember and don't use profanity when speaking with me.

 

[Tinker Grey]

But why is it inappropriate? I'm aware of only two uses. One is to express that something is "bad"; the other is "good" as in "that's the 's'". OK, a third: synonymous with "stuff" as in "get your stuff together".

What is an appropriate use of the word?

 

[Resha Caner]

What is an appropriate use of the word?

Oh. I thought you would know. As I said earlier, it indicates contamination, defilement, and shame. Fecal material is still commonly used in hazing rituals, and it has a long tradition. There is a scene in Shogun where a Japanese lord urinates on Major Blackthorne as a sign of domination and humiliation. Further, it's not uncommon for dogs and other animals to do the same.

 

[Oafman]

How much do you feel you have in common with Christians?

Plenty with some, not so much with others.

Sometimes we need to be okay with the fact that we are not all the same, and we can still be respectful regardless.

How liberal of you!

 

[amariselle]

How liberal of you!

Okay....

 

[Tinker Grey]

Oh. I thought you would know. As I said earlier,

Sorry. I missed it.

it indicates contamination, defilement, and shame. Fecal material is still commonly used in hazing rituals, and it has a long tradition. There is a scene in Shogun where a Japanese lord urinates on Major Blackthorne as a sign of domination and humiliation. Further, it's not uncommon for dogs and other animals to do the same.

So I take it your a prescriptivist rather than a descriptivist when it comes to language. Usage evolves. I'm perfectly content when people use the 's' bomb around me with the meanings I've described.

But more to the point when I think I understand what a person means and their intentions, I can't be bothered to be offended or shocked.

 

[Resha Caner]

So I take it your a prescriptivist rather than a descriptivist when it comes to language.

I might lean that direction, but I don't know that I'm exclusively one or the other.

Maybe the bigger difference between us is views of the sacred. Of course I don't know where you stand, but if nothing is sacred, nothing can be defiled, and there is little use for words denoting those concepts. I once had someone give me a book where an atheist was arguing for a secular idea of the sacred. It was an interesting read, but I don't know how much support the author has gathered.

 

[Dave Ellis]

And what's the meaning of 'S'? How does it differ from crap? Why should you be offended if someone says they've had a sh--ty day?

And to prove the point further, the profanity filter in and of itself is ridiculous.

Everybody who read your post knows exactly the word you meant to use, and even said the word to themselves in their head. Yet, if you added a "it" in where you had the dashes, your word would not appear at all.

Just like on TV, if you have the F word in a movie overdubbed with the word "frick", everybody knows what the actual word is, and by simply being aware of the overdub they've likely said the F word to themselves in their head. What's the point? It makes no sense at all.

They're just words, words that everyone knows. What's the big deal?

 

[Hikarifuru]

It does explain why they're offended. You're starting to appear intentionally obtuse by making this about the sound of the word. It's not the sound that's offensive, but the meaning of the word. Are you not offended that someone would promote the idea of sexual abuse, etc?

I realize many use profanity as filler. But what should we say of someone who doesn't use words in their proper context? Whether it's because they are ignorant of the word's true meaning or because they're not conversant enough to choose a better word, I can't think of any way it reflects well on them. It's analogous to a teenager who can't complete a sentence without using "like". I'm, like, so surprised, like, that you don't, like, get it.

But the only difference between the S word and the word "poop" IS the sound, and it is not very often when the F word is used that they are communicating their desire to abuse someone. It's just not. This is why lovers ask each other to F them all the time.

You yourself are making the use of profanity into something it isn't actually used for. There is no way the words their self could be bad to utter.