Mary's immaculate conception

[Major1]

Agree with the first part. What we inherit is the consequences of it...death. The RCC definition only came about between 354-430 AD. The Eastern Church, unlike its Western counterpart, never speaks of guilt being passed from Adam and Eve to their progeny, as did Augustine. Instead, it is posited that each person bears the guilt of his or her own sin.

Interesting that all the conversation show that we agreed from the beginning.

 

[WebersHome]

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Note the grammatical tense of the word "sinned" in the passage below. It's past tense.

● Rom 5:12 . . Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

It's sometimes argued that Ezek 18:20 overturns the grammar of Rom 5:12

"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son."

However, according to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not retroactive. That being the case, then prior to Ezek 18:20, God was at liberty to pass Adam's guilt on to his posterity just as if they had been there with him in the garden tasting the forbidden fruit for themselves; on their own.

This very same procedure is used to place people on the cross with Jesus just as if they were nailed up there for themselves.

● Rom 6:3-11 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? . . For we know that our old self was crucified with him

● Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

● Col 3:2-3 . . Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

When Jesus was nailed to the cross to die for the sins of the world, God somehow-- in a way that I have yet to fully understand --counted me nailed to the cross right with him; so that on God's books, I satisfied justice that day on Calvary. True, I got through it without a scratch. But on God's books, Christ's injuries are my injuries, and his execution my execution. And since I fully expect that the Bible's God would never lower Himself to the evil practice of double jeopardy; then I fully expect that I will never again be dragged to justice for my sins. The gospel's justice system is a very good deal for sinners; and a deal that is really just too good to pass up.

The sweet part is this: once Christ's crucifixion executes a sinner, they can never commit a sin that God didn't foresee and subsequently place on the cross already; because Jesus didn't pay for their sins up to a point; no, he paid for them all the way to the grave; so, in reality, Christ's believing followers have been fully punished already for every sin that they will commit in their entire lifetime; from the first sin to the last sin. In point of fact, if his believing followers didn't die for all their sins when Christ was crucified; then they will have to die for the balance later on in the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
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[Major1]

.
Note the grammatical tense of the word "sinned" in the passage below. It's past tense.

● Rom 5:12 . . Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

It's sometimes argued that Ezek 18:20 overturns the grammar of Rom 5:12

"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son."

However, according to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not retroactive. That being the case, then prior to Ezek 18:20, God was at liberty to pass Adam's guilt on to his posterity just as if they had been there with him in the garden tasting the forbidden fruit for themselves; on their own.

This very same procedure is used to place people on the cross with Jesus just as if they were nailed up there for themselves.

● Rom 6:3-11 . . Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? . . For we know that our old self was crucified with him

● Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

● Col 3:2-3 . . Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

When Jesus was nailed to the cross to die for the sins of the world, God somehow-- in a way that I have yet to fully understand --counted me nailed to the cross right with him; so that on God's books, I satisfied justice that day on Calvary. True, I got through it without a scratch. But on God's books, Christ's injuries are my injuries, and his execution my execution. And since I fully expect that the Bible's God would never lower Himself to the evil practice of double jeopardy; then I fully expect that I will never again be dragged to justice for my sins. The gospel's justice system is a very good deal for sinners; and a deal that is really just too good to pass up.

The sweet part is this: once Christ's crucifixion executes a sinner, they can never commit a sin that God didn't foresee and subsequently place on the cross already; because Jesus didn't pay for their sins up to a point; no, he paid for them all the way to the grave; so, in reality, Christ's believing followers have been fully punished already for every sin that they will commit in their entire lifetime; from the first sin to the last sin. In point of fact, if his believing followers didn't die for all their sins when Christ was crucified; then they will have to die for the balance later on in the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
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Galatians 2:20 ......
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

While Paul was trying to please God by keeping the Law, he was not really living for God. The more he tried to keep the Law, the more he saw how much he failed. It was only when he gave up trying to achieve righteousness on his own and accepted the righteousness of God by faith in Christ that he truly began living for God. Justification by faith actually makes it possible to live for God.

Being crucified with Christ means that we are no longer under the penalty of the Law. That penalty was paid by Christ on our behalf. When Christ was crucified, it was as if we were crucified with Him. The penalty was fully paid—just as surely as if we had been crucified for our own sins. When Christ rose from the dead, we rose, too. Now the risen Christ empowers us to live for Him in a way that pleases God. We used to seek life through our own works, but now we “live by faith in the Son of God”-----
Galatians 2:20.

Being crucified with Christ means that we are NEW CREATIONS!

2 Corth. 5:17 says......
“If anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!”

 

[WebersHome]

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The upside to our complicity in the forbidden fruit incident is that it's not a sin unto Hell; the appropriate satisfaction of justice for that particular sin is just simply mortality; i.e. when we pass away that sin is off the docket.
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