LDS Joseph Smith and the Astronomers

[Peter1000]

Yes, that he lost by6 6-7 million votes.

We know the real truth of the election.

 

[Peter1000]

He recognizes that there's more than one way to interpret the verse, which is obvious enough to us, isn't it? I don't know why that's supposed to mean anything in itself.

The early Church itself is right. It not only does not include the Mormon interpretation, it explicitly condemns it insofar as you understand it to be baptizing dead people. Read St. John Chrysostom sometime. He laughs at the notion that baptism should involve the dead.[/QUOTE]

He recognizes that there's more than one way to interpret the verse, which is obvious enough to us, isn't it? I don't know why that's supposed to mean anything in itself.

So there could be more than 1 interpretation to this verse. So here they are:
1) Members of the church in Corinth, which did not believe in the resurrection, were baptizing for living people that were dead to the gospel. (Augustines belief)
2) Members of the church in Corinth, which did not believe in the resurrection, were baptizing people who had passed away (the dead) because they thought it would help them be saved.
(what we believe)
What other interpretations can you think of?

 

[Peter1000]

He recognizes that there's more than one way to interpret the verse, which is obvious enough to us, isn't it? I don't know why that's supposed to mean anything in itself.



The early Church itself is right. It not only does not include the Mormon interpretation, it explicitly condemns it insofar as you understand it to be baptizing dead people. Read St. John Chrysostom sometime. He laughs at the notion that baptism should involve the dead.

When you say "dead people", do you think we dig up a dead body and baptize it?

 

[Peter1000]

Because the fathers reject it, and we are not to accept novelties into our faith just because they may be practiced somewhere by someone. It's not a Christian practice.

Why did the fathers reject it? Paul mentions it, but does not denounce it, he only says that the people that were doing it, did it for the wrong reasons.

Since Paul mentions it, but does not denounce it, there is an implication that he is OK with it.
See Vicarious Baptism for the Dead in 1 Corinthians 15:29

It's met with disgust because it's an abhorrent practice

What an absolutely abhorrent practice to call out a persons name that has passed away and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Wow, I can't think of anything more abhorrent that this.

They held councils, giving him and his party a chance to explain themselves, and when that explanation was found to be severely lacking and he and his party refused to recant from it, he and they were condemned as heretics.

As I remember reading the history, the council got started before the arrival of all the bishops that supported Arius, so there was only a few. Then when they were finally given time to respond, they were heckled and made fun of and nobody could here them speak, they finally had to just give up and sit down.

I am not an Arius proponent, his theology was not true, but he did not get his day in court. And finally he should have been excommunicated for disturbing the church.

Then why do you pick it out only from a handful of verses at random? Why is it not found over and over throughout the Biblical text, the fathers, and so on? Did the same God Who loves the world so much that He sent His only begotten Son to save it also hate it so much that He would hide the 'meat', only to be revealed beginning in 1830 AD? That's not the God I recognize, and I suspect all Christians could say the same.

The world killed him cruelly, and they killed his blessed apostles and many of his church leaders and followers. If the Corinthians were an example of Christianity, they would not even hear the "meat" let alone have anything to do with it. So Jesus did not have to hide it, the people rejected it.

Maybe that's why you hide it away from everyone. Does it make you feel ashamed?

Hide it away? What do you think we are talking about so extensively? And if we do hide it away it is because of people like you who look upon it in disgust and think it sad that we should do such a shameful thing. So for the most part we keep it to ourselves to that the unlearned cannot know everything and mock and laugh and make fun of.

Are you saying, following Elijah (somehow), that if you didn't perform baptisms for dead people, God would curse the earth?

Yes, if we do not turn our hearts to our fathers, and if they do not turn their hearts to their children (us) and this work is not done, then the curse those on the earth that rejected this work. Jesus has set up a way to have all people know his name and his teachings, and to have all the saving ordinances needed to be saved in the kingdom of God and his Son. But we are a part of that plan, and Jesus expects us to do the work.

How do you explain how they earth remained uncursed for the 1,000+ years between our earliest written patristic references to this practice (e.g., among the Gnostics of St. John Chrysostom's day, in the late 4th-early 5th century) and when JS supposedly 'restored' the Church in 1830? Because we know from the references we have that this was never an accepted practice in the Church.

I believe part of that curse is upon the early church for rejecting the work, and the apostasy took place.

 

[Peter1000]

True. You can also understand claims about baptizing dead people being justified by this verse like HH St. John Chrysostom did back in the late 4th/early 5th century, and laugh at those who read the scriptures that way because they're so detached from reality and from faith in Christ. That's fine too.

And I know indeed that I shall excite much laughter; nevertheless, even on this account most of all I will mention it that you may the more completely avoid this disease: viz., when any Catechumen departs among them, having concealed the living man under the couch of the dead,

they approach the corpse and talk with him, and ask him if he wishes to receive baptism; then when he makes no answer, he that is concealed underneath saith in his stead that of course he should wish to be baptized; and so they baptize him instead of the departed,

like men jesting upon the stage. So great power hath the devil over the souls of careless sinners. Then being called to account, they allege this expression, saying that even the Apostle hath said, “They who are baptized for the dead.” Seest thou their extreme ridiculousness? Is it meet then to answer these things? I trow not; unless it were necessary to discourse with madmen of what they in their frenzy utter. But that none of the more exceedingly simple folk may be led captive, one must needs submit to answer even these men. As thus, if this was Paul’s meaning wherefore did God threaten him that is not baptized? For it is impossible that any should not be baptized henceforth, this being once devised: and besides, the fault no longer lies with the dead, but with the living. But to whom spake he, “Unless ye eat My flesh, and drink My blood, ye have no life in yourselves?” (John vi. 53.) To the living, or to the dead, tell me? And again, “Unless a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cable annot see the kingdom of God.” (John iii. 5.) For if this be permitted, and there be no need of the mind of the receiver nor of his assent while he lives, what hinders both Greeks and Jews thus to become believers, other men after their decease doing these things in their stead?​

If this is the father that you think is rejected the idea of baptizing people for the dead, it is laughable too.

Do you really think that our theology of baptizing people for the dead is like what John is laughing at. "They approach the corpse and talk with him, and ask him if he wishes to receive baptism; then when he makes no answer, he that is concealed underneath saith in his stead that of course he should wish to be baptized; and so they baptize him instead of the departed."

Do you really think our theology is to dig up corpses and ask them if they want to be baptized. And when they do not answer, someone says in his stead, that of course he should wish to be baptized, and so we baptize the corpse? Is that how you think it works?

If you do then read up and get up to date. John and I would also reject such a stupid theology of talking to corpses and ask them if they want to be baptized. So if this is what the fathers were rejecting to, they should have. But this is not anything near to the vicarious work of baptism for the dead. So truly this is silly.

 

[mmksparbud]

We know the real truth of the election.

Why does it not surprise me that you guys are Trumpers! Reality stinks at times, but reality is where God lives, not in the fantasies of men. Some people can not face reality. Trumpers and Mormons -- how fitting that both believe in a vile, demented, lecherous man who lives in a fantasy world!

 

[He is the way]

Why does it not surprise me that you guys are Trumpers! Reality stinks at times, but reality is where God lives, not in the fantasies of men. Some people can not face reality. Trumpers and Mormons -- how fitting that both believe in a vile, demented, lecherous man who lives in a fantasy world!

You should want to face reality that spirits are angels and angels are spirits. The Bible states:
(New Testament | Hebrews 1:13 - 14)

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

So who are the angels?:

(New Testament | Luke 20:34 - 36)

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Spirits are the children of God:

(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

When we die we are with Christ:

(New Testament | Philippians 1:22 - 24)

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:6 - 9)

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[mmksparbud]

I know what the bible says about angels. I'm 70 years old and have studied the BIBLE. I do not go by what man thinks about them, certainly not what JS and others think about them. And I know what the bible says about God---Jesus said He is spirit, and you guys say He is not. I know you have never been able to prove your believes with the bible so I find anything you guys have to say about any subject, mostly wrong. I am, once again, needing to get away from all the false baloney your group and others spew. I have to take a break every once in a while as it is too frustrating to listen to all the false doctrines all the time, and how the scriptures get twisted to fit your theories. I will probably be gone for a while---we've gone over this stuff several times over the years and I will not change my mind and start believing in all the junk you guys teach!

 

[He is the way]

I know what the bible says about angels. I'm 70 years old and have studied the BIBLE. I do not go by what man thinks about them, certainly not what JS and others think about them. And I know what the bible says about God---Jesus said He is spirit, and you guys say He is not. I know you have never been able to prove your believes with the bible so I find anything you guys have to say about any subject, mostly wrong. I am, once again, needing to get away from all the false baloney your group and others spew. I have to take a break every once in a while as it is too frustrating to listen to all the false doctrines all the time, and how the scriptures get twisted to fit your theories. I will probably be gone for a while---we've gone over this stuff several times over the years and I will not change my mind and start believing in all the junk you guys teach!

Yes God is a resurrected spiritual being:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:43 - 46)

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

God has a spiritual body.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes God is a resurrected spiritual being:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:43 - 46)

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

God has a spiritual body.

Your Father God is a resurrected being---Our Father God never died, therefore, was never resurrected! He was never created, He was never born, He was never a man who became God, He is from everlasting to everlasting. The Father God has no wife, and has only One True Son, we are adopted Children of the Father. Natural children need no adoption. Jesus was God with the Father from always. He is the creator of all things, from nothing=--He became human and came to die for our sins. He was resurrected, and has a glorified human body as we will have. God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost=ONE GOD.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Your father god can be anything you want---ours is ONLY uncreated, never human, never resurrected--only Jesus, His Only Son, was born of woman as a man, yet fully God and died for our sins and wasx resurrected. We do not serve the same God.

 

[He is the way]

Your Father God is a resurrected being---Our Father God never died, therefore, was never resurrected! He was never created, He was never born, He was never a man who became God, He is from everlasting to everlasting. The Father God has no wife, and has only One True Son, we are adopted Children of the Father. Natural children need no adoption. Jesus was God with the Father from always. He is the creator of all things, from nothing=--He became human and came to die for our sins. He was resurrected, and has a glorified human body as we will have. God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost=ONE GOD.
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Your father god can be anything you want---ours is ONLY uncreated, never human, never resurrected--only Jesus, His Only Son, was born of woman as a man, yet fully God and died for our sins and wasx resurrected. We do not serve the same God.

You don't know that God the Father did not become human at some point, Jesus did and He is a God. Jesus is also from everlasting to everlasting. Jesus is the only Son begotten in the flesh as He has NO earthly father. That being said we all have one Father:

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in unity, glory, and perfection:

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13 - 14)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[dzheremi]

You don't know that God the Father did not become human at some point, Jesus did and He is a God.

This is specious reasoning. Not only do we not know that God the Father did not do lots of stuff (since proving a negative is impossible and all), but if we were to assume that God the Father did at some point become incarnate, then why would His Son have to have done so at any point later on? Why not just have your Mormon God the Father do everything?

This is why I've been saying for basically as long as I've been interacting with Mormons here that you guys completely miss the point of the incarnation -- indeed, it can be fairly argued that you don't even really have an event you can call "the incarnation", since the incarnation of your Jesus figure is in no way unique, since, as has been explained to me here by Mormons, it was nothing more than a depthless imitation of what he had seen his father do before him, which is...well, it's not Christianity, I'll just put it that way.

 

[He is the way]

This is specious reasoning. Not only do we not know that God the Father did not do lots of stuff (since proving a negative is impossible and all), but if we were to assume that God the Father did at some point become incarnate, then why would His Son have to have done so at any point later on? Why not just have your Mormon God the Father do everything?

This is why I've been saying for basically as long as I've been interacting with Mormons here that you guys completely miss the point of the incarnation -- indeed, it can be fairly argued that you don't even really have an event you can call "the incarnation", since the incarnation of your Jesus figure is in no way unique, since, as has been explained to me here by Mormons, it was nothing more than a depthless imitation of what he had seen his father do before him, which is...well, it's not Christianity, I'll just put it that way.

I believe that Jesus could not have completed the atonement if He had an earthly father. He would have died in the garden of Gethsemane.
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 3:7)

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

Christ was sent by the Father to take upon Himself the sins of all of those who would repent and turn to Him. Jesus the Christ did do all that He had seen the Father do:

(New Testament | John 5:19 - 22)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

 

[dzheremi]

But my question is certainly not "What if Jesus had an earthly father?", but rather "What is so special or unique about the incarnation of the Word of God if God Himself is already incarnate?" You can't really have an incarnation in that context. If one is already incarnate, their continuing to be incarnate is no great feat, or even any kind of event.

 

[He is the way]

But my question is certainly not "What if Jesus had an earthly father?", but rather "What is so special or unique about the incarnation of the Word of God if God Himself is already incarnate?" You can't really have an incarnation in that context. If one is already incarnate, their continuing to be incarnate is no great feat, or even any kind of event.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father born to a virgin named Mary.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father born to a virgin named Mary.

LOL! So, there may be one born to a virgin Esther?!! Your foolishness makes my head hurt!

You don't know that God the Father did not become human at some point, Jesus did and He is a God. Jesus is also from everlasting to everlasting. Jesus is the only Son begotten in the flesh as He has NO earthly father. That being said we all have one Father:

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 10)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in unity, glory, and perfection:

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13 - 14)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Wrong---we know our God was never human! Your god was human, ours never was. Ours never had a father, He is from everlasting to everlasting and never died for the sins of others--Your god can not create from nothing ours can. Your Jesus is only one of his father's children---Ours is the ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD, we are His children through adoption. Our Father God has no wife--Your father god has at least one, probably many. We are not a product of the father god and one of his wives, We are the children of Adam created by God and Eve, created by God, who was given the gift of procreation to bring children forth as the creator commanded.
We are brothers to Jesus only through His humanity from Mary, we do not share His divinity from His Father. Jesus was God before becoming human, as such He is the creator of Lucifer and in no way His brother. So, NO!--we do not worship the same Father God, nor His Only Son, Jesus. This has been said countless times and y0u reject it. There is only so many times one can reject the truth before the Holy Spirit is driven away---that is the sin that can not be forgiven--for without the Holy Spirit, we have no way to get back to the Father, and end up:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[FredVB]

It is going overboard to have a doctrine for practice from one singular phrase about baptism for the dead that has no support in the rest of the Bible passages for that interpretation. It is in the context of not believing in the coming resurrection, so then baptism should be practiced just when there is belief in the coming resurrection from the dead. Any baptism, in that context, is baptism for the dead. Death is ahead for all of us, the hope of our salvation is the resurrection to everlasting life afterwards, and so the baptism is with symbolism for that.

Jesus Christ is the Son, just through the incarnation, he is the incarnation of Logos, the Word with God who is God. The heavenly Father is not himself incarnated, but remains as God, the Supreme Being, everywhere without limit through all existence, everything else depending on the Creator. There was never a time or place at all without the Necessary Being. Whenever there were manifestations of God, that was not the same as the incarnation, which is how Christ came among us.

 

[garee]

Not that Joseph Smith was a scientist, but there is a book https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Scientist-Widtsoe-John/dp/1594628122 which shows that Joseph Smith did know much about the universe.

What has been revealed is God whose very essence is glorious light, and not that he can only create it as a immutable attribute . His very essence is described by three things. God is Light. God is Love. And God is Spirit .again not attributes but the very essence of His unseen Spirit.

In the beginning he said let the glorious presence of God reveal the work of His hand or will Or in his words let there be light .On day three God found false pride in the most beautiful creation, created as a walking a upright. made a change crawling on belly

Before the fall (corruption) a serpent as serendipity of colors or rainbow, as stones in the garden of Eden same stones used in the breast plate of a Priest and in the book of Revelation. . stones as metaphors in that parable are used to represent believers Christians the bride of Christ prepared as the residents of the heavenly city.

stones the walls of the city to represent new testament saints as well as pearls used to represent gates in respect to the old testament saints . . together making up the bride of all the nations and kingdoms as sects of the whole world

Revaltion 21:19-21 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl (Pure beryl is colorless); the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

I would think the same represent Josef coat of many colors a metaphor of the incorruptible seed by which all men are born again from above of as it is written to represent all the nations of the world

.The beauty of creation before it was corrupted and the after effect the light of God's glory departed . On day four he switched on the temporal corruption time keepers winding down toward the last day under the Sun ..

God knowing before hand that mankind would worship the Sun as the beginning of Light . The Sun and moon the two temporal time keepers again the phrase under the Sun . it removes the idea of searching the stars for a beginning of spirit life making to no effect astronomy and star gazers . The Holy Spirit will come like the first time in all his glory . the same way let there be the presence of God and the light was Good .God is not a man as us.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In the new heavens and earth there will be no temples walls to separate born again Children of day light, from children of darkness night, the unconverted . It will return to the beginning the first time three days when God was the light and the lamb the light of it. The sun and the moon the reflected glory are shown as one. No more temporal under the Sun forever and ever .

Revelation 21:22-23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

One glory, not one reflected

Josef Smith true astrologist. .But a false prophet. false apostle .

John the last new prophet before God sealed up the possibility of any more. Sealed it with 7 seals. The perfect or complete now that we no longer have it in part . It the perfect is still the tool needed to try the spirits in order to see if inspired from above or earthly after the things of mankind.

Again we simply do not know Christ after the rudiments of this corrupted creation. No need for astronomers and philosophies of men Now that we have the whole perfect law that works in us with no laws missing by which we could know Him more adequately .Walk by a exclusive faith as it is written the eternal not seen.

Put way the electronic telescope. Look to the unseen as it is written .

Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

No man can serve two teaching Good Masters as Lord. One is our teaching Good Master in heaven . Only God not seen is good.

 

[He is the way]

LOL! So, there may be one born to a virgin Esther?!! Your foolishness makes my head hurt!





Wrong---we know our God was never human! Your god was human, ours never was. Ours never had a father, He is from everlasting to everlasting and never died for the sins of others--Your god can not create from nothing ours can. Your Jesus is only one of his father's children---Ours is the ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD, we are His children through adoption. Our Father God has no wife--Your father god has at least one, probably many. We are not a product of the father god and one of his wives, We are the children of Adam created by God and Eve, created by God, who was given the gift of procreation to bring children forth as the creator commanded.
We are brothers to Jesus only through His humanity from Mary, we do not share His divinity from His Father. Jesus was God before becoming human, as such He is the creator of Lucifer and in no way His brother. So, NO!--we do not worship the same Father God, nor His Only Son, Jesus. This has been said countless times and y0u reject it. There is only so many times one can reject the truth before the Holy Spirit is driven away---that is the sin that can not be forgiven--for without the Holy Spirit, we have no way to get back to the Father, and end up:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Continuing on with those verses:

(New Testament | 2 Thessalonians 2:12 - 17)

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

 

[FredVB]

God is beyond what things are revealed to show to us what God is like. Yahweh God is like no simple substance, but is beyond what we can understand, though being necessary existence that is shown to us as self-existence, this includes the unlimited personhood with unlimited awareness and knowledge that with having ability to create from nothing just God's creative power can have all ordered in perfect design, according to God's will. Though certain substances can be referred to for representation of God none will show God as God is with that representation.